MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
"Diminishing returns"
Do you think that will be the only difference or can you see a scenario where the XBOX's advantages can also be seen on screen? How much faster should a PS5 game load for it to be a big deal?
Yupp, your right on the money.I think I’ll believe a PS dev over an Xbox exclusive one. There’s a reason the SSD is @5.5. Mark even says in his video 4.5 is just about right for next gen to load all the textures in .27 secs before the players turn etc.
I think I’ll believe a PS dev over an Xbox exclusive one. There’s a reason the SSD is @5.5. Mark even says in his video 4.5 is just about right for next gen to load all the textures in .27 secs before the players turn etc.
I don't understand why anyone thinks games can sustain needing 1.5GB of textures every time the player turns their head though. (5.5 x .27)I think I’ll believe a PS dev over an Xbox exclusive one. There’s a reason the SSD is @5.5. Mark even says in his video 4.5 is just about right for next gen to load all the textures in .27 secs before the players turn etc.
And there was a time Bill Gates said "640K is more memory than anyone will ever need on a computer," We dont know what these next gen games will need or not. Both companies decided to invest alot of resources in these capabilities and the industry as a whole have been saying these investments are what will push gaming forward. Why is it so hard to believe that there may in fact be a paradigm shift as Mark Cerny suggests?I don't understand why anyone thinks games can sustain needing 1.5GB of textures every time the player turns their head though. (5.5 x .27)
Like... it's really cool that it's possible, but if a game absolutely NEEDS to do that.. then a single scene of a few minutes of gameplay is going to need as much data as a medium sized current gen game.
I think it will provide great flexibility; the lack of a need to really care about data load bottlenecks.. and they might be able to push things that MS's moderate SSD speed can't do, but the limit is likely to be the size on disk at that point. Hence what this dev is saying about diminishing returns. It's just math.
EIther way IMO PS5 is going to be the go-to multiplat machine.. because there really should be barely any load times.. at all.. and while XSX will be decent I have a feeling after a while even their decent load times are going to feel last-gen compared to PS5 lol
Why is it so hard to believe that there may in fact be a paradigm shift as Mark Cerny suggests?
Also Microsoft would of done their research to on what they need speed wise for SSD so we will seeI don't think Sony would waste funds on something that isn't going to matter. So some developers will definitely take advantage of it.
As for diminishing returns we have to wait and see if that's true.
I have been saying that for a while, most people are expecting games similar size to what we have now. I asked the question of how much data will we be seeing on screen at anyone timeI really don't see how he's wrong.
The actual size of the games will be the bottleneck for anyone creating a game on PS5. It can stream like 200GB of data in 30 seconds.
It's just basic math.. it's an awesome advancement, basically freeing devs from worrying about a huge bottleneck in other systems, but you wont' be able to fully leverage it much without using massive amounts of disk space.
As discussed before they don't need to duplicate data and they can try to save space in other ways (like maybe not have you download all audio languages, that sort of thing), but 5.5GB / second is sort of beyond what's sustainable for a game with any decent sized worlds.
Super curious to know how much space that ~5 minute demo took up from Epic.
Being able to depend on having a fast SSD is a huge shift in general and an awesome improvement. The question here is whether there are diminishing returns between the more standard NVME in the XSX and the world-beater in the PS5. Next gen games will probably be huge in general even accounting for the cuts they can do for things like not having to duplicate assets; but if you crank up the detail because your SSD is insanely fast that cranks up the size of the files involved, it's just the reality of it.And there was a time Bill Gates said "640K is more memory than anyone will ever need on a computer," We dont know what these next gen games will need or not. Both companies decided to invest alot of resources in these capabilities and the industry as a whole have been saying these investments are what will push gaming forward. Why is it so hard to believe that there may in fact be a paradigm shift as Mark Cerny suggests?
Also Microsoft would of done their research to on what they need speed wise for SSD so we will see
In another thread I believe it was estimated 20-25% of Spiderman was duplicated files as one example.There is unknow how much space no data replication give us back.?
So how big do you think games will be next gen in GB?Maybe Sonys system requires a faster SSD for some reason.
But not all research is done the same. It could be possible that ones company's R@D is better than the others.
So how big do you think games will be next gen in GB?
Well lets say 200gb is the norm next gen (which i think will be smaller than this) the SSD in th PS5 will access the whole game in 33 seconds. So where do you think the whole speed of 6gb will be required?Depends on the assets that they use. I know that.spme space will be saved due to the elimination of duplicate data. But the use of 4k or 8k assets could increase the file size.
We have to wait and see what happens though.
I have a whole list of devs speaking about XSX if you want that.This developer has talked a lot about next gen since last month. Weather you believe him or not I wish more developers would. Not anonymous developers but people who have to go on record.
I have a whole list of devs speaking about XSX if you want that.
You don't think they can over-engineer stuff? I get they have their vision, but PS3 and the Cell show that Sony can go too far. Not saying that is currently the case, we have to wait for games to actually show us this, but it wouldn't be surprising.Yupp, your right on the money.
Sony set a taget for what was needed to acomplish their vision. They didnt work their asses off to achieve that just for faster load times.
I just don't see how load times are going to be a reason to buy a game on one platform over another unless you are REALLY pressed for time and those seconds count. I swear some of these comments read like XBOX Series X has a floppy disk drive or something. Unless one platform takes minutes to load and the other seconds I don't think that will mater especially if when the game does load its at a higher resolution with better effects. I'll happily wait a few extra seconds if it means the game will look better.I don't understand why anyone thinks games can sustain needing 1.5GB of textures every time the player turns their head though. (5.5 x .27)
Like... it's really cool that it's possible, but if a game absolutely NEEDS to do that.. then a single scene of a few minutes of gameplay is going to need as much data as a medium sized current gen game.
I think it will provide great flexibility; the lack of a need to really care about data load bottlenecks.. and they might be able to push things that MS's moderate SSD speed can't do, but the limit is likely to be the size on disk at that point. Hence what this dev is saying about diminishing returns. It's just math.
EIther way IMO PS5 is going to be the go-to multiplat machine.. because there really should be barely any load times.. at all.. and while XSX will be decent I have a feeling after a while even their decent load times are going to feel last-gen compared to PS5 lol
The question isn’t about TF as PS5 does that to, the question is how quick do they need to access the data for the gameSo...diminishing returns in regards to the SSD. I guess the next logical question is would it be the same kind of diminishing returns in regards to the tflop difference.
These are the only Devs that have come out and said the SSD isn't what matters this gen, but its the CPU. Yet, in the first MS video what were they (devs) most excited for? You guessed it. The SSD! That narrative seems to have changed greatly since the UE5 demo.
Suss as to be honest.
The posibilities are there, but when even common people like myself can understand the benefits, it's kinda obvious.You don't think they can over-engineer stuff? I get they have their vision, but PS3 and the Cell show that Sony can go too far. Not saying that is currently the case, we have to wait for games to actually show us this, but it wouldn't be surprising.
I definitely agree on the possibilities. But the possibilities of the Cell were also amazing back then. The question is more if it's too much, that we'll have to see.The posibilities are there, but when even common people like myself can understand the benefits, it's kinda obvious.
I think I’ll believe a PS dev over an Xbox exclusive one. There’s a reason the SSD is @5.5. Mark even says in his video 4.5 is just about right for next gen to load all the textures in .27 secs before the players turn etc.
Could also be that Sony did the same testing and came to the conclusion that they needed those speeds for next gen based off Epics feedback?
Just seems to me their goals with these systems are pretty different.
Difficult to say. That depends if they filled the PS5 bandwidth or not.So you're saying that the XsX can't run that UE5 demo as well as the PS5..
I definitely agree on the possibilities. But the possibilities of the Cell were also amazing back then. The question is more if it's too much, that we'll have to see.
Welcome back by the way!"Diminishing returns"
“I’m positive that down the road, developers will find a way to create experiences that would be impossible to realize on current gen,
It will be interesting how all this plays out. Certainly game sizes need to be managed. But maybe new techniques will become available for merging assets, transforming them, mixing them up, etc. NPC’s mixing wardrobes, house layouts altered, different textures applied, reflective properties changed, etc, etc.I don't understand why anyone thinks games can sustain needing 1.5GB of textures every time the player turns their head though. (5.5 x .27)
Like... it's really cool that it's possible, but if a game absolutely NEEDS to do that.. then a single scene of a few minutes of gameplay is going to need as much data as a medium sized current gen game.
I think it will provide great flexibility; the lack of a need to really care about data load bottlenecks.. and they might be able to push things that MS's moderate SSD speed can't do, but the limit is likely to be the size on disk at that point. Hence what this dev is saying about diminishing returns. It's just math.
EIther way IMO PS5 is going to be the go-to multiplat machine.. because there really should be barely any load times.. at all.. and while XSX will be decent I have a feeling after a while even their decent load times are going to feel last-gen compared to PS5 lol
This wont age well - will last up until 4th June
Also lol. Nothing more to say.
“We learned every lesson two times over. It almost feels unreal with how much confidence and how much ignorance we went into all of this. If at the beginning someone could project to your mind how much you don’t know, and would need to learn, you would probably just be too paralysed to start at all. Basically 80% of that part of the game you saw has changed, let alone the rest of the game.”
i hope it's the case because i can see a loading opening a door in a corridorThat 2017 build is nothing like the current version of the game, it was meant for last gen.
Scorn Interview: Delving Inside the Xbox Series X Exclusive
We're delving deep inside the Xbox Series X exclusive horror-adventure Scorn. It's a deeply intriguing title that has many inspirations, but what do the devs have to say?mspoweruser.com
That 2017 build is nothing like the current version of the game, it was meant for last gen.
Scorn Interview: Delving Inside the Xbox Series X Exclusive
We're delving deep inside the Xbox Series X exclusive horror-adventure Scorn. It's a deeply intriguing title that has many inspirations, but what do the devs have to say?mspoweruser.com
So you're saying that the XsX can't run that UE5 demo as well as the PS5..