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Screen Digest: "Nintendo behind the next gen curve; isolated from market"

Elios83 said:
Unfortunately for them things will only get worse once more capable and innovative systems are announced by Sony and Microsoft.
Nintendo with the WiiU is at risk at turning back to the Gamecube era, it's obvious that after the success of Wii and DS the market is disappointed with them.
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More capable I'll give you, but what are you expecting from Durango and Orbis in terms of innovation? Occulus support would be huge, but everything else we know about them seems like a fairly conservative extension of functionality the 360 and PS3 already have.
 
miksar said:
They'll sell very well at first because of the generation's fatique and MS/Sony fanboys, just like Nintendo's new systems did well in their first two months. But past January the numbers will fall significantly and everyone will be writing articles about console gaming doomed as a concept. Around that time Nintendo will be able to cut the price for Wii U and will start selling decent numbers, but no one will notice.
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They will not sell well at first because the old consoles will be way cheaper and the next generation is going to e way expensive, plus Sony and Microsoft are known to have the most fragile consoles last time, and many people will wait for revisions
 
Elios83 said:
Unfortunately for them things will only get worse once more capable and innovative systems are announced by Sony and Microsoft.
Nintendo with the WiiU is at risk at turning back to the Gamecube era, it's obvious that after the success of Wii and DS the market is disappointed with them.
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So the Wii and DS were successful but the market is disappointed in them? What?
 
schuelma said:
Ok, I have to ask- based on what we know, what exactly is going to be "innovative" about the Sony and Microsoft systems?
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They will likely feature a combination of motion tracking, motion controls, touch devices and new sensors (biometric?).
Those coupled with much more advanced hardware, well developed online services and solid infrastructure will make the Wii U completely pointless except for first party games and/or as as a cheap alternative.
Basically...the new Gamecube.

Soriku said:
So the Wii and DS were successful but the market is disappointed in them? What?
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Emmm no, the market is disappointed with the fact that Wii U won't have the same success by a huge margin.
 
outunderthestars said:
A simple question: Does Nintendo need to be the same as Sony/MS in order to be successful? The Wii and DS were both "behind the curve" and "isolated from the market" yet were wildly successful for Nintendo. Why should they change a business model that is working?
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The answer to that first question is "no", of course. The second question? Well, they shouldn't change it- they should get back to it. They lost some of the differentiation they had when they released a console with a controller that was a 360 pad with a screen thrown it. That throws most of the appeal of the Wii out of the window. They need that individuality again, because it's what they're best at and more importantly it's a fight they can win.

Being isolated and behind the curve is seen as negative, but it's really irrelevant if you're doing something different, something equally-if-not-more interesting than your de-facto competition. Nintendo aren't doing that any more, so of course you'll have people saying "Catch up!" once they can no longer say "Well, it's working for them so far...". They're wrong, but you can't blame them for coming to that conclusion.

lednerg said:
Video game analysts behind the relevancy curve.
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But who else will tell people where to throw their money? D:
 
Elios83 said:
They will likely feature a combination of motion tracking, motion controls, touch devices and new sensors (biometric?).
Those coupled with much more advanced hardware, well developed online services and solid infrastructure will make the Wii U completely pointless except for first party games and/or as as a cheap alternative.
Basically...the new Gamecube.
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So you took my question and turned it around as another GameCube lol statement.

Not saying I expected much better, but come on.
 
The wii is main problem isn't any of this fluff like graphics and iPad apps it is that it is Friday .. a lot of people got paid.. and there are no games for people to buy.
 
Cerebral Assassin said:
The GC was probably Nintendo's most conservative console, & it's failure killed any chance of Nintendo solely aiming any future device at the people complaining about their output since then.
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It's weird - I think the Wii U is in a better position than the Gamecube in spite of the GC having power comparable to its immediate competitors. The power gap between Wii U and Durango/Orbis will be pretty big, yeah, but at least it's using the same storage medium, not lacking basic developer-side features like the Wii, has online infrastructure that's not too far away from the HD twins right now, and isn't hampered by the controller in cases where third parties don't put in extra effort.
 
Elios83 said:
They will likely feature a combination of motion tracking, motion controls, touch devices and new sensors (biometric?).
Those coupled with much more advanced hardware, well developed online services and solid infrastructure will make the Wii U completely pointless except for first party games and/or as as a cheap alternative.
Basically...the new Gamecube.
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Why would anyone complain about this? Other than the sales not being the best the GameCube was an amazing console.
 
mantidor said:
If you don't see how these articles are reactionary to the successful ND you are being a little bit more than naive. While articles predicting Nintendo's doom have never been scarce, this recent batch has been nothing but embarrassing. They usually hide their trolling better, now they are coming out as angry fanboys without an actual decent argument, is the same old crap we've heard for years.
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What determined the success of that ND exactly? What crap have we been hearing for years? The crap about Nintendo being more interested in gimmicks than in staying current? That this has not only cost them third party support, but also cost Nintendo fans third party support on Nintendo consoles? There's legit arguments to be made that fans of other consoles enjoy trolling Nintendo. There's also legit arguments to be made that Nintendo has been making it far too easy for them to do it. I do agree that listing a bunch of games it hopes to release is far from a bad thing, but the timing of it certainly does reek of desperation. But who cares? Goodness can come from desperation.
 
Cerebral Assassin said:
I'm guessing you never played Xenoblade(hint, the graphics aren't why people are getting excited about that game).
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Well, in at least 3 other threads its being lauded as "Just above what the Xbox 360 and PS3 can do" "1.5x Current generation which is good enough for me" "Draw distance is something I havent seen before" "Shows that the Wii U has a lot more under the hood" etc, and I could give direct quotes but I dont have the time.
 
Elios83 said:
Unfortunately for them things will only get worse once more capable and innovative systems are announced by Sony and Microsoft.
Nintendo with the WiiU is at risk at turning back to the Gamecube era, it's obvious that after the success of Wii and DS the market is disappointed with them.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it's impossible (jury's still out), but man it's a long shot. More than likely we'll just get a traditional home console. What do you see that will make them so innovative? Wonderbook? Smartglass? Kinect? Move?

Yeah, unless Sony and Microsoft surprise me with something cool, I don't see innovation happening. The GamePad is more of an innovation than those things I listed (maybe apart from Kinect). :)
 
Blades64 said:
I'm not saying it's impossible (jury's still out), but man it's a long shot. More than likely we'll just get a traditional home console. What do you see that will make them so innovative? Wonderbook? Smartglass? Kinect? Move?

Yeah, unless Sony and Microsoft surprise me with something cool, I don't see innovation happening. The GamePad is more of an innovation than those things I listed (maybe apart from Kinect). :)
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Honestly, Microsoft's Illumiroom really wowed me, personally.
 
Baconsammy said:
What determined the success of that ND exactly? What crap have we been hearing for years? The crap about Nintendo being more interested in gimmicks than in staying current? That this has not only cost them third party support, but also cost Nintendo fans third party support on Nintendo consoles? There's legit arguments to be made that fans of other consoles enjoy trolling Nintendo. There's also legit arguments to be made that Nintendo has been making it far too easy for them to do it. I do agree that listing a bunch of games it hopes to release is far from a bad thing, but the timing of it certainly does reek of desperation. But who cares? Goodness can come from desperation.
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It's Nintendo's fault that some people enjoy acting like pathetic children that have nothing better to do than shit up every Nintendo thread?
 
Oersted said:
Gimmicks. I see.
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Of course they'll have gimmicks. They'll also have a real account system. Lots of third party support. And current tech(not sure about this since nothing solid has been announced).

Newton Crosby said:
It's Nintendo's fault that some people enjoy acting like pathetic children that have nothing better to do than shit up every Nintendo thread?
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The only people shitting up these threads are Nintendo fans. Unless you mean threads not specifically about issues with Nintendo, in which case yeah it's childish. But then again, it happens in Sony and Microsoft threads too. If fanboyism bothers anyone, the Internet is the wrong place to be.
 
Kaijima said:
The thing about the Wii, and the incredible allergic reaction it triggered among cool gamers, is it demonstrated there was more to it than that. People see the Wii "expanded audience" has having been some kind of trick, fad, or illusion, as that supports the narrative that real gaming is only this one very narrow thing aimed at a specialized group of people. But the audience the Wii tapped into is sustainable - it's just that it turns out platforms like smartphones and tablets may have been an even better fit for said audience. Gaming is just as real a thing over there, as "over here".

Nintendo's challenge isn't in trying to crush destroy Sony or Microsoft and dominate the enthusiast gaming market. It's in trying to figure out a place for themselves to exist doing what they do.
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It's really not hard to see why so many 'gamers' had a problem with the Wii (and now, WiiU's 2nd screen): it's human nature to resist change. Console gamers were used to using their controller, and this whole pointing thing was an anomaly that didn't fit in their regular 'gaming.' Meanwhile, casual gamers picked it up in droves and got sold on the idea, the unfortunate part being that the industry did little to capitalize on this new audience (because they were already invested in "HD").
 
x-Lundz-x said:
Looks about as good as Ratchet and Clank did on my PS3 in 2007.
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Good game, but nah.

bL05WMD.jpg
 
This dullards droning trend guessimates was one of the main reasons I stopped buying Edge. Now someone's helping him shit up NeoGAF. Whoopee.

Pachter maybe wrong just as often, but the guy's entertaining at least.
 
Oersted said:
The talk was about innovation. Have you something to add?
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The talk is about how Nintendo is behind the curve on innovation, and haven't even matched many of the innovations brought by their competition 8 years ago. That's what the article and talk is about. It's not a question of do I have anything to add, but does Nintendo? That's what they're questioning.
 
The Abominable Snowman said:
Well, in at least 3 other threads its being lauded as "Just above what the Xbox 360 and PS3 can do" "1.5x Current generation which is good enough for me" "Draw distance is something I havent seen before" "Shows that the Wii U has a lot more under the hood" etc, and I could give direct quotes but I dont have the time.
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You didn't answer the question( Does Halo 4 have levels in which you can travel to most of what you can see? Because Xenoblade does).To be honest anyone trying to use a minute long trailer to determine technical prowess is pretty crazy(especially as we have no real clue about the scale/use of the pad).
 
Kaijima said:
In addition to that, I still personally suspect there's some degree of genre fatigue and cynicism among game players due to the industry trying to run certain styles of games into the ground for seven years straight, resulting in a plaque-like buildup of disinterest in gaming as a whole.

Stupid useless anecdote time: was just having a conversation with the manager of our local Gamestop last night. Not a dumb person, not a stereotype of Gamestop employee. He was tired of games, all he's seen and all that's been marketed at him for the last half decade are the same 2 military shooters, the same "serious" open world crime / terrorist games, the same palette of names characters colors. So we asked him about five or six other games that came out in the last couple of years that broke the trend. He'd never really paid attention to them or cared to try the few he'd taken note of, because gaming was just... tired. Dull. That is what audience disinterest looks like.

If nothing else, we did get him to consider trying a few non-stereotypical Doritos Industry games to try and have fun again.
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I liked those two paragraphs, because thats kind of what I see. But I also the whole 'games have to be 100% fun' as part of the problem. On the gamecritics podcast this week, one of the guys was talking about his most memorable gaming experience, the one that turned him into a lifelong gamer. It was one of the megaman games, and it kicked the shit out of him when he got it as a kid. He remembers the day he decided to beat the game. And when he did finish it, that feeling made him a gamer. Doesn't sound like he had much fun playing the game, but it sure left an impression.

Today, it seems every non-indie game is tuned for the super casual. Hard modes locked behind 'you must beat this game once' locks, button mash to win, story+spectacle>gameplay, everybody is a winner, etc.

Sometimes I think game companies have forgotten what kind of experience make people into core gamers. Imho of course.
 
I don't want to be involved in any warped comparison wars, but that really is a silly screen to post.

It's like posting:

thumbnail_2_82ea56c4_v3.jpg


This to rail about the visuals in 101.
 
Baconsammy said:
The talk is about how Nintendo is behind the curve on innovation, and haven't even matched many of the innovations brought by their competition 8 years ago. That's what the article and talk is about. It's not a question of do I have anything to add, but does Nintendo? That's what they're questioning.
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And what kind of innovation have we seen from Sony? I know Microsoft has kinect but we haven't seen anything like that with the former
 
Even if it were true, it would be ideal for Nintendo. They don't have to be dictated by trends and the economy as other devs/pubs are susceptible to.

I don't know what Smartglass has on Nintendo. Have the writers even seen a Wii U?
 
We can all agree nintendo's online presence and games being tied to the system is shit. But nobody should ever question their software. Never.
 
Tech journalists hate how Nintendo speaks directly to consumers and circumvents their lifestyle of partying, free swag, schmoozing and kickbacks.

They hate it because it threatens their very existence if Nintendo succeeds
 
shinobi602 said:
Doomed.



Original Edge Article
Harding-Rolls also expects Microsoft and Sony to more widely adopt subsidized pricing models for new hardware. "This will keep the platforms relatively competitive," he said. "Nintendo will be late to adopt a subsidized pricing strategy but could be forced to examine it if Microsoft and Sony push forward with it."
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Good!

I hope they never bring the cell phone contract model to consoles.

I don't want to buy a new console for several hundred dollars + still pay an additional $15 monthly fee for 2 years.
 
Baconsammy said:
Fun+graphics beats just fun every single time. There's no reason the two have to be mutually exclusive.
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There certainly is, although that doesn't mean Nintendo capitalizes on it particularly well for my tastes.

But yes, there very much is a reason why graphics can interfere with fun.

Fair warning: that GIF is approaching bannable status. I'd start slowing down with it.
 
Baconsammy said:
Of course they'll have gimmicks. They'll also have a real account system. Lots of third party support. And current tech(not sure about this since nothing solid has been announced).
Click to expand...

Baconsammy said:
The talk is about how Nintendo is behind the curve on innovation, and haven't even matched many of the innovations brought by their competition 8 years ago. That's what the article and talk is about. It's not a question of do I have anything to add, but does Nintendo? That's what they're questioning.
Click to expand...

So what about the things you listed above are innovations exactly? Nintendo maybe behind the curve on many things, but I struggle to see where innovation is one of them. Online infrastructure, sure, but even that I see as just a natural progression of the industry rather than innovation.

Third party support is not innovation...

Current tech is not innovation...
 
Alex said:
I don't want to be involved in any warped comparison wars, but that really is a silly screen to post.

It's like posting:
[pic]
This to rail about the visuals in 101.
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I wasn't trying to be a dick about it, it's just that like the first 200 results on google image search were either bullshots or stuff that looked like that. If I weren't at work I might dig longer. But really, Tools of Destruction looked good but not 101 good.
 
Cerebral Assassin said:
You didn't answer the question( Does Halo 4 have levels in which you can travel to most of what you can see? Because Xenoblade does).To be honest anyone trying to use a minute long trailer to determine technical prowess is pretty crazy(especially as we have no real clue about the scale/use of the pad).
Click to expand...

Thats design choices, nothing to do with graphics, where the gif is actually somewhat relevantly posted.
 
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