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Sega 3D Classics #13 (final?): THUNDER BLADE

@MUWANdo

Banned
Yeah, this is definitely the last of the second batch, and he while he doesn't rule out a third batch it doesn't sound like we can count on it happening any time soon.

I'll go over the interview in more detail later, but here are some tidbits:

-Unlike most of the other games, they were actually able to locate the old AM1 source code for Thunder Blade, but the code they found was an "in-between" revision that didn't neatly conform to any one release version, which meant they had to spend a lot of time cross-checking with various versions of the board to ascertain what was what

-The "Extra BGM" tracks included with 3D Thunder Blade are similar but not identical to the ones features on the Galaxy Force 2/Thunder Blade OST CD; the arrangements are a little more elaborate, and they had to go in and fix the source data so that the songs would loop properly.

-Some of the "new" enemies in the special mode are based on unused enemy graphics that were found in the ROM

-For the new stage, they received assistance from a freelancer who once worked for ZOOM and did pixel art for games like Phalanx X68000, and now does illustrations for the magazine Shooting Gameside. (Here's his Twitter: https://twitter.com/highmafuyuno )

-Okunari likens the original final stage to the Death Star from Episode 4, and the new final stage to the Death Star from Episode 6
 

rjc571

Banned
After quickly running through the regular and Special modes (with 6 lives per continue, sue me)... this game is pretty damn great. Maybe not Galaxy Force 2 great, but it's close. The overhead and behind the back parts look equally spectacular in 3D, and the need to balance your altitude and your speed with your movement makes it one of the most unique shootemups I've ever played. The bosses were really interesting as well (after I figured out you can move backwards by reducing your speed). The only real downside is that it's short even for an arcade game... only 4 stages in regular mode plus an extra stage in Special, with each stage taking around 2 minutes or less to beat. Special mode seemed faster than regular mode and had more enemies shooting at you, but it gives you a few lives back at the end of each stage (depending on how much stuff you shoot?), so it's nicely balanced. The final stage in special mode is pretty ridiculous and I was dying constantly as the game overwhelmed me with enemy fire and assholishly place obstacles, but you get two continues so I was able to push my way through. The final boss was kind of a pushover though.
 
They found the source code?! FOR A SEGA ARCADE GAME??!! Fuck, where are my sedatives...

Glad to hear the game plays and looks great. Proper translations of these interviews need to happen, along with the second set coming overseas.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
does anyone know WHY this is the last 3d classic from sega, if true?

They're relatively difficult to make and they haven't met sales expectations outside of Japan.

Of course, maybe they'd be selling better if Sega bothered to promote them a little more, or put them on sale every once in a while (not that I think the asking price is unreasonable, it's just a very straightforward way to attract more attention to the games that are already out).
 

sörine

Banned
I thought the GigaDrive conversions were relatively easier than the arcade ports? I wish we'd gotten some more of those, here's to hoping for a 3rd Volume full of them.
 
They're relatively difficult to make and they haven't met sales expectations outside of Japan.

Of course, maybe they'd be selling better if Sega bothered to promote them a little more, or put them on sale every once in a while (not that I think the asking price is unreasonable, it's just a very straightforward way to attract more attention to the games that are already out).

I kinda blame the selection of titles, some poor choices there. (like altered beast)
 

AdanVC

Member
After quickly running through the regular and Special modes (with 6 lives per continue, sue me)... this game is pretty damn great. Maybe not Galaxy Force 2 great, but it's close. The overhead and behind the back parts look equally spectacular in 3D, and the need to balance your altitude and your speed with your movement makes it one of the most unique shootemups I've ever played. The bosses were really interesting as well (after I figured out you can move backwards by reducing your speed). The only real downside is that it's short even for an arcade game... only 4 stages in regular mode plus an extra stage in Special, with each stage taking around 2 minutes or less to beat. Special mode seemed faster than regular mode and had more enemies shooting at you, but it gives you a few lives back at the end of each stage (depending on how much stuff you shoot?), so it's nicely balanced. The final stage in special mode is pretty ridiculous and I was dying constantly as the game overwhelmed me with enemy fire and assholishly place obstacles, but you get two continues so I was able to push my way through. The final boss was kind of a pushover though.

Thanks for sharing your impression! Sigh, I'm so looking forward to this and OutRun as well but who knows when this games are gonna make it to the west :'(
 

Espiox

Member
Gonna be so mad if we miss out on these because SEGA can't be bothered to do decent post-launch marketing/sales for the first set.
 

duckroll

Member
Gonna be so mad if we miss out on these because SEGA can't be bothered to do decent post-launch marketing/sales for the first set.

It's just 5 titles. I remain confident that Sega will put them out in English this holiday season. If not I'll be really disappointed.
 
This set might do better solely thanks to OutRun and After Burner II having more pull for SEGA gamers. On top of that, there's a greater base of 3DS users than was the case last year, and online people could be a little more aware of the ports' existence after hearing about them for months.

Just getting these + the interviews would be a blessing. A smaller third set of games more difficult to port would do well for SEGA's reputation, if they'll allow Okunari and M2 the resources.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
sörine;126222950 said:
I thought the GigaDrive conversions were relatively easier than the arcade ports? I wish we'd gotten some more of those, here's to hoping for a 3rd Volume full of them.

They're mostly easier in the sense that there's a lot of tech and know-how that can be applied across multiple games, but if they're not actually making multiple games it's kinda moot.

It probably doesn't help that these things are spearheaded by and aimed at Japan, where the demand for arcade ports is much higher, whereas the international audience doesn't seem particularly fussed about either.

The Genesis titles are emulated though, so you'd think it would be easy enough for them to create more of those.

They're not really emulated in the way people generally use that word; they have to manually convert and/or rewrite a lot of stuff for each individual game in order to make it look nice in 3D.

I kinda blame the selection of titles, some poor choices there. (like altered beast)

They started off doing games that would be relatively easy to convert to stereoscopic 3D, as a sort of test run that they could use to develop the necessary skill to work on harder/more complex stuff later on. Take Streets of Rage, for example: they picked that game over games like Golden Axe or SOR2 because they knew it would be very difficult to get a multidirectional belt-scroller to look natural in stereoscopic 3D, so they went with the original SOR, which sticks almost exclusively to horizontal scrolling, with the intention of approaching other games later, once they'd built their chops up.

Altered Beast in particular was chosen because there's not really a whole lot to convert in terms of volume, and it's a game that still sells despite the fact that no-one seems to genuinely enjoy it.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
One last Game Watch interview:

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/20140828_663972.html

Okunari and Hori talk about some of the spoiler-y/endgame stuff and discuss how they came up with the boss names, and there are developer comments from director Matsuoka, programmer/planner Saito, freelance designer Fuyuno and sound guy Namiki.

EDIT: they also did a secret update discussing the new credits roll, and there are a few screenshots at the very end. Don't get the wrong idea...
 

mclem

Member
This set might do better solely thanks to OutRun and After Burner II having more pull for SEGA gamers. On top of that, there's a greater base of 3DS users than was the case last year, and online people could be a little more aware of the ports' existence after hearing about them for months.

OutRun in particular, sort-of-puzzles me, in that I genuinely can't fathom why it wasn't one of the first batch, given how iconic a game it is from a Western perspective. Is it markedly lower-profile from the Japanese standpoint?
 

duckroll

Member
OutRun in particular, sort-of-puzzles me, in that I genuinely can't fathom why it wasn't one of the first batch, given how iconic a game it is from a Western perspective. Is it markedly lower-profile from the Japanese standpoint?

The first batch focused on building the foundation for the 3D tech, so they picked a lot of Mega Drive titles to create a broad range. The arcade stuff only came in towards the end as a more experimental thing. With the second batch they made way fewer titles, but focused entirely on more value and content for each title, and picking arcade titles which were more popular. I think it makes sense.
 

mclem

Member
The first batch focused on building the foundation for the 3D tech, so they picked a lot of Mega Drive titles to create a broad range. The arcade stuff only came in towards the end as a more experimental thing.

I thought Super Hang-On was the arcade version and one of the first releases? And, for that matter, is roughly contemporary with the arcade OutRun.
 

duckroll

Member
With regards to Outrun in particular, I wonder if losing the Ferrari license played into it. They modified for the car for this release, which definitely involved extra work. With the first batch of titles I believe they didn't really do much in the way of original new content or modifications.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
OutRun in particular, sort-of-puzzles me, in that I genuinely can't fathom why it wasn't one of the first batch, given how iconic a game it is from a Western perspective. Is it markedly lower-profile from the Japanese standpoint?

It came down to a combination of factors: schedule, ease of conversion, licensing issues, etc. The first three arcade games--Space Harrier, Super Hang-On and Galaxy Force 2--were all games M2 had prior experience with, so they seemed like a reasonable place to start.
 

mclem

Member
With regards to Outrun in particular, I wonder if losing the Ferrari license played into it. They modified for the car for this release, which definitely involved extra work. With the first batch of titles I believe they didn't really do much in the way of original new content or modifications.

Ah, of course, that makes a whole lot of sense.

It came down to a combination of factors: schedule, ease of conversion, licensing issues, etc. The first three arcade games--Space Harrier, Super Hang-On and Galaxy Force 2--were all games M2 had prior experience with, so they seemed like a reasonable place to start.

As does that, although I guess the implicit followup there is that it's extra-unfortunate that M2 weren't involved with the Sega Ages series until fairly late. Outrun wasn't first now (effectively) because it was first then.
 

Espiox

Member
With regards to Outrun in particular, I wonder if losing the Ferrari license played into it. They modified for the car for this release, which definitely involved extra work. With the first batch of titles I believe they didn't really do much in the way of original new content or modifications.

I could be wrong but I'm fairly sure there were Dreamcast/Shenmue ports that used that modified, non-Ferrari car.
 

KC-Slater

Member
Is it possible to transfer VC/e-shop games from a 3DS from one region to another from a different region?

Specifically, could simply get their hands on a used/beater Japanese 3DS to buy the yet unreleased 3D classics, and move them over to their 'main' domestic system?
 

rekameohs

Banned
I'm really surprised that Sonic 2 isn't getting a release. After Sega sent out the very well done iOS version, I was kinda expecting/hoping for a 3D version. Just seems like an easy cash cow for Sega, but it could be much harder for M2 to develop the game than I'm thinking,
 

Jucksalbe

Banned
Is it possible to transfer VC/e-shop games from a 3DS from one region to another from a different region?

Specifically, could simply get their hands on a used/beater Japanese 3DS to buy the yet unreleased 3D classics, and move them over to their 'main' domestic system?

No.
 
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