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[Inuhanyou]

Why?

Because, there have already been 3 games in a row with the same combat and worldview, and generally speaking, you can only go so far reusing the same exact concept without either devs getting tired of making the same thing, fans getting tired of devs making the same thing, or devs making the same thing, getting tired, releasing sub par products and fans then getting tired of the franchise entirely.

I think that, while the franchise was mishandled severely after the first game in terms of platform choice and investment priority, barring it from having a chance at really getting big, the choices made by Sega after the first game shipped were always bound to happen in the environment the industry was at at that specific time period.

 

[CertifiedFP]

Eh, VC2 is mediocre at best. If they remade it with the VC3 engine it could be great, but the class system, level design (mostly enemy placement), and grindy stuff was awful in it.

VC3 with a better official translation would be great, though.

VC3 engine? VC3 is a VC2 reskin with all the MonHun crap commented-out and almost all of its assets reused.

What I want at this point isn't VC3 or a VC2 remake - I just want a VC4 that looks at everything XCOM 2 did and do that.

 

[Mookie1515]

From the little I played of VC2, I don't even want that, dumb bullshit school drama injected into my awesome anime WW2. I just want an actual translation of VC3. It could be argued it's the best in the series!

 

[chrominance]

I feel like I'm the extreme minority here, but there are aspects of VC2/VC3's game design that I actually liked. The small, fragmented maps, for example; it feels much more artificial and is obviously structured around the memory limitations of the PSP, sure. But in some ways I actually liked the play style it encouraged, where you'd bring out specific units to perform specific tasks and have to juggle your unit limits across multiple zones a lot more. For some reason I found that satisfying. I also enjoyed the wider variation in class types and more elaborate options for tank customization. VC3 introduced the idea of group actions, and though I think the execution left something to be desired, I liked the concept.

I definitely didn't like the ridiculous class upgrading system from VC2, and jury's out on the VC3 system (I only played about half of VC3, need to pick it back up one of these days but it gets really damned scary with the

Spoiler

artificial valkyria supersoldiers

). But to me, VC2 is decent enough as a collection of game systems; it's just the story and characters are mostly insufferable.

 

[Taruranto]

Because, there have already been 3 games in a row with the same combat and worldview, and generally speaking, you can only go so far reusing the same exact concept without either devs getting tired of making the same thing, fans getting tired of devs making the same thing, or devs making the same thing, getting tired, releasing sub par products and fans then getting tired of the franchise entirely.

Yeah, so you expand the gameplay. Introduce new stuff, like, dunno, aerial combat, boat combat or whatnot. (I'm literally throwing ideas, don't think about this too much)

I mean, Fire Emblem is also another SRPG series that ultimately has same the same basic gameplay between each entry, and it still stronger than ever, sales wise.

 

[Sölf]

Give me VC2 on PC or PS4 and I will buy it instantly. In only played a bit on my Vita and all the things that I don't like about it is stuff that's only there because it's a PSP game. Just minor things, but it adds up. Would still instantly buy it.

 

[Wagram]

I liked VC2 (not as much as VC1), but the small maps really grated my patience over time. I absolutely hated having to bring my squad through three separate maps.

 

[chrominance]

Yeah, so you expand the gameplay. Introduce new stuff, like, dunno, aerial combat, boat combat or whatnot. (I'm literally throwing ideas, don't think about this too much)

I mean, Fire Emblem is also another SRPG series that ultimately has same the same basic gameplay between each entry, and it still stronger than ever, sales wise.

To be fair, Fire Emblem also has several continuities and recent entries don't rely on the canon of previous games, though they can be connected. Seems harder to do that with Valkyria Chronicles, given the current mythology.

 

[TC McQueen]

To be fair, Fire Emblem also has several continuities and recent entries don't rely on the canon of previous games, though they can be connected. Seems harder to do that with Valkyria Chronicles, given the current mythology.

Honestly, the way to get around continuity in VC is to set the stories of new games outside of Gallia and only acknowledge some of the events from VC1 and VC3 (if that, even).

What I want at this point isn't VC3 or a VC2 remake - I just want a VC4 that looks at everything XCOM 2 did and do that.

Yeah, VC__ taking a lot of notes from XCOM 2's book or even ME3's (if they insist on having the player control soldiers in real time) would be the way to go. Customizable weapons, multiple mobility options, active abilities, and a better tech system would go a long way, especially if they decide to go full 20s-50s Popular Mechanics/Science with the tech. There's a lot of weird shit they could mine for ideas from those magazines, since they've already done the land battleships.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

I wish these titles that tease acknowledgement of fan wishes came with appropriate disclaimers lol. (No good news)

I mean, Fire Emblem is also another SRPG series that ultimately has same the same basic gameplay between each entry, and it still stronger than ever, sales wise.

You know why that is though, don't you?

 

[Durante]

Because, there have already been 3 games in a row with the same combat and worldview, and generally speaking, you can only go so far reusing the same exact concept without either devs getting tired of making the same thing, fans getting tired of devs making the same thing, or devs making the same thing, getting tired, releasing sub par products and fans then getting tired of the franchise entirely.

But there was only one game, and then a completely sub par product, and then nothing from the point of view of the western market. Or nothing at all from the point of view of the vast majority of the VC1 audience in the west who never played VC2 (those lucky SOBs).

Creating a true second entry in the franchise for PS4 and PC would have absolutely had a good shot at recapturing or even expanding that audience. You know, a true sequel which improves upon the strengths of the game while expanding its mechanics in meaningful ways. The kind VC1 never got.

 

[Koren]

Eh, VC2 is mediocre at best. If they remade it with the VC3 engine it could be great, but the class system, level design (mostly enemy placement), and grindy stuff was awful in it.

What is the issue with the class system? The fact it's unbalanced and that fencers are at least as bad as scouts in VC1 in terms of OP?

I don't even dislike most of the missions. It's really the research tree and the grinding that I loathe (and I usually love grinding, I've grinded 400+ hours in many games, such as Disgaeas... it's just that I can't stand grinding... tutorial missions!)

 

[Caj814]

Skip 2

Do 3

 

[Dragonslayer_023]

VC2 > VC1 tbqh

 

[Taruranto]

You know why that is though, don't you?

Pandering yeah, but even then, I think my point still stand. One of the most praised aspect of Conquest is the gameplay and how much similar it is to old FE, I never heard anyone arguing the game is "stale" because it's like the 15th FE with the same formula.

There are tons of way to keep a series fresh without resorting to change the gameplay or genre.

The VC games didn't even try much when it came to introducing new stuff (the fact that VC2 and 3 were on PSP forced them to downsize some aspects, if anything), it was far too early to give up on that kind of gameplay.

 

[MulderYuffie]

Come on I want them bring 3 over please.

 

[infinitys_7th]

VC3 engine? VC3 is a VC2 reskin with all the MonHun crap commented-out and almost all of its assets reused.

What I want at this point isn't VC3 or a VC2 remake - I just want a VC4 that looks at everything XCOM 2 did and do that.

VC3 has definite graphical improvements. It also runs better - VC2 had terrible slowdown for me, but VC3 did great AND looked way better in the new areas and in models

I know it was the same base, but VC3 had to have had improvements made to it. VC2 felt unfinished and buggy at times.

And, yeah, cutting out that grindy nonsense would by itself make VC2 more playable. Of course, then the classes are still kind of broken. . .

 

[Dot-N-Run]

I would love to see remasters or even remakes of VC2&3 on modern consoles/PC. VC1 was the very first game I bought for my PS3, and it was a shame that we never got another game in the series on that system. After how downright stunningly beautiful that game was (something that still holds true today) it was a shame for the series to end up on the PSP. I love handheld games, but this is one series that I feel definitely does not belong there.

 

[dogen]

Path to success:

Put 2 and 3 on Steam -> Enjoy your free buckets of money.

Even a straight port would take some work, and I'm not sure a ton of people would be interested in buying a game with assets and an interface designed for a 480x272 screen.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

Pandering yeah, but even then, I think my point still stand. One of the most praised aspect of Conquest is the gameplay and how much similar it is to old FE, I never heard anyone arguing the game is "stale" because it's like the 15th FE with the same formula.

There are tons of way to keep a series fresh without resorting to change the gameplay or genre.

The VC games didn't even try much when it came to introducing new stuff (the fact that VC2 and 3 were on PSP forced them to downsize some aspects, if anything), it was far too early to give up on that kind of gameplay.

Maybe. I think FE is more a case of being around long enough to find a completely new audience, than it is an example of keeping the core mechanics fresh through 15 iterations. But I see your point.

but I kind of side more with the do something else crowd. I think it comes down to what the devs feel they have ideas for. If they feel they've hit a dead end after 3 then they probably have in terms of what they can do. I don't want to see them force ideas like more vehicles just for the sake of making the same game again

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I like Disgaea, Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics, and I'll even throw Super Robot Wars on here for good measure, but they're nothing like traditional JRPGs in terms of structure

In traditional JRPGs there's towns, dungeons, shops, side quests, inventory management, NPCs. I could keep listing elements, but I'm sure you're probably more familiar with JRPGs than I am.

In SRPGs, most of that fat is cut. It's just missions with varied, tactical objectives and in-between story stuff and team management. Disgaea blurs the lines a bit and it's probably my least favourite of the SRPGs I've played because of it, but it's still a huge departure from the structure of traditional JRPGs.

From my perspective, the lore and idea behind Valkyria Chronicles - fantasy WW2 with Norse mythological elements thrown in - is interesting, but not as interesting as the gameplay elements.

I feel that the shift from SRPG to JRPG would shine more of a light on the characters and the world, which - in my opinion - has never been the strongest point of the series. The writing has bordered on being 'too anime' since the beginning and Valkyria Chronicles 2 shows what happens when that line is crossed. You get a game that people praise for its gameplay with the caveat of 'if you can suffer through the characters'.

When I said that I'm not interested in another JRPG, A more specific way of putting it would be 'I'm not interested in a by-the-books JRPG with characters that have the depth shown in past entries in the series, particularly if they're not backed up by enjoyable gameplay systems'.

By all means, if the emphasis is put in the right places and the characters are built up more than they have been in the Valkyria Chronicles series without falling into the gutter of tropes that plague anime characters while simultaneously being given a good gameplay system as a backing, the game could be great and give new life to the series.

I just think it would be a safer move to redo the old stuff and make sure everyone has access to it, generate some money and goodwill within SEGA and the western community and then go on to make your experimental JRPG spin-off thing. If it doesn't work out. If it fails, then SEGA might give you a chance to make VC4 instead of kicking you to the curb at that point.

This isn't meant to be smart-alek, but "It's nice to want things". We've been in this "new normal" for quite a while now, so even when classic "use tropes, not be used by them" characters, plot, dialogue, etc comes along in an anime video game product, it gets overlooked by a shocking number of people. Not hated, just...not noticed, or misconstrued as being shallower and predictable than it actually is, both "inside" and "outside" of anime fandom. Hopefully they aim to bother to, you know? But it's uphill from here.

It's a long, hard fight out of this narrow spit of land history put alot of things on, but it's going to take that long, hard fight guarenteed.

For the record, I found VC1's narrative fell apart later, and what I've heard of 2's could be used to anaesthetize surgery patients from its eye-rolling predictabilty.

 

[BRSxIgnition]

I don't care nearly as much about VC2 as I do about VC1 and I agree with them that remaking VC3 for HD consoles would be a massive effort.

I rather they just make a proper sequel/reboot on PS4 using the Gouche style and an updated Blitz system, not this VAR mess. (Which isn't even my opinion, it's that of those who have played the demos.) Include ocean battles akin to World of Warships, etc, and you've got a worthy successor to the game that captured everyone's hearts on PS3.

Please, SEGA, just realize that people don't want an action RPG from Valkyria Chronicles, they want the BLiTZ Semi Real Time Strategy goodness they got with the first game.

Why bother making so many core changes to VAR and slowing it down to make it more like the original, and then going so far as to spread it thinner with a Vita release and release it early instead of making something like the original Valkyria Chronicles from the beginning?

I just don't understand, SEGA...

 

[TheRook]

Please, SEGA, just realize that people don't want an action RPG from Valkyria Chronicles, they want the BLiTZ Semi Real Time Strategy goodness they got with the first game.

Why bother making so many core changes to VAR and slowing it down to make it more like the original, and then going so far as to spread it thinner with a Vita release and release it early instead of making something like the original Valkyria Chronicles from the beginning?

I just don't understand, SEGA...

How do you know that for sure? because of the voices here or Youtube comments?
Action RPG's have a much lower entry point to get into, and are alot more friendly to new gamers or those who are unfamiliar with the genre than traditional RPG's as the strategy game elements are what could have turned people away from the original games.

Why bother making the changes then?

They are already committed to releasing this game...at this point and seeing the feedback from the original Demo put them in sort of tough spot. They could not afford to waste all their efforts with the current engine by discarding it and retooling the old engine to work with the new game, they could not make the deadline by doing so. So I'm going to go out on a limb and believe that they had to make some sort of compromise with in the development cycle to make this game appeal to long time fans by making it feel/seem familiar and keep some of their original ideas/goals they had initially planned.

Vita Port?
If it's possible, then they should attempt it. We do not know how intensive this game was for it to be "watered down" to fit the Vita port, there is no way in knowing until it's released, however I think they wanted to keep in the good spirits of the fans they gained during the handheld era of Valkyria Chronicles.

No one quite understands what Sega is doing in the grand scheme of things, but regarding this franchise, they at least acknowledge the western audience and if we take that into consideration, they maybe planning to release VAR into the west to see if the franchise is still viable here. The game being released on PS4 does help improve those chances and if Sega keeps their expectations low, we just may see future titles here as well...granted that VAR isn't a complete POS.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yeah, so you expand the gameplay. Introduce new stuff, like, dunno, aerial combat, boat combat or whatnot. (I'm literally throwing ideas, don't think about this too much)

I mean, Fire Emblem is also another SRPG series that ultimately has same the same basic gameplay between each entry, and it still stronger than ever, sales wise.

This is not Fire emblem connected to Nintendo's marketing arm. This is Valkyria chronicles, with Sega who literally don't care about AAA projects outside of less than a handful of proven franchises in Japan and on PC.

 

[Inuhanyou]

But there was only one game, and then a completely sub par product, and then nothing from the point of view of the western market. Or nothing at all from the point of view of the vast majority of the VC1 audience in the west who never played VC2 (those lucky SOBs).

Creating a true second entry in the franchise for PS4 and PC would have absolutely had a good shot at recapturing or even expanding that audience. You know, a true sequel which improves upon the strengths of the game while expanding its mechanics in meaningful ways. The kind VC1 never got.

Your saying reboot the franchise after VC1 and just ignore the sequels ever happend? Sounds hot, but too ambitious for modern times, especially considering the crew that made that original game are out the window. Its about 6 years late IMO.

As i said before, i agree with you, but that was never going to happen, and with media vision at the helm and 3 games of varying quality and success under their belt, they want to try a new thing.

 

[boredandlazy]

Whilst it was a bit more compact I preferred the combat in VC2. The way the maps were broken up into sectioms added an extra layer of strategy in the way I played.

 

[PsionBolt]

I feel like I'm the extreme minority here, but there are aspects of VC2/VC3's game design that I actually liked. The small, fragmented maps, for example; it feels much more artificial and is obviously structured around the memory limitations of the PSP, sure. But in some ways I actually liked the play style it encouraged, where you'd bring out specific units to perform specific tasks and have to juggle your unit limits across multiple zones a lot more. For some reason I found that satisfying. I also enjoyed the wider variation in class types and more elaborate options for tank customization. VC3 introduced the idea of group actions, and though I think the execution left something to be desired, I liked the concept.

I definitely didn't like the ridiculous class upgrading system from VC2, and jury's out on the VC3 system (I only played about half of VC3, need to pick it back up one of these days but it gets really damned scary with the

Spoiler

artificial valkyria supersoldiers

). But to me, VC2 is decent enough as a collection of game systems; it's just the story and characters are mostly insufferable.

You're not alone. I loved the more game-like angle that the segmented maps brought, with units popping in and out from place to place. It works especially well with the addition of super-units in 3: those two systems combine to create awesome scenarios and strategies that weren't possible in earlier games.
You could scout-rush a base, then swap out the weakling for your valkyria to make the base impenetrable on enemy phase; or when your army was split, you could push from just one direction until your captures created a back door into enemy territory, then use that back door to deploy whats-her-face with the giant sword-gun-thing and blow up five guys at once, securing a pincer position. That sort of thing.
Overall, it just adds a level of craziness to the game that makes missions feel far more varied than the strict linear pushes you had in VC1. (Until you get to the point where you've played all the maps ten times and the game is only half over, of course... But that's a different problem entirely.)

...That said, though, VC2 is still irredeemable trash. VC3 makes good on its systems, but 2 really feels tossed together haphazardly; with 2, it feels like they hadn't yet figured out that the changes were not just downgrades to an existing framework. Add in the grindy, unclear upgrade nonsense and poor unit balance, and I wouldn't even recommend VC2 to someone like myself who loves kinda-bad games. It's more than kinda-bad, it's junk.

 

[Battlechili]

Its a shame its just an idea for now, but I do hope at some point they do remakes/remasters of 2 and 3. They're good games, even if they do show their handheldness.

 

[Dremark]

Yes, your point?

That you pretty much ignored the entire contents of it.

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

Even with the surge of popularity for the rereleases of the first VC, I still don't see VC2 and 3 ever getting remastered or remade in the future. Hopefuly it happens, though.

Good job on the translation, OP.

 

[CertifiedFP]

Judging by the positive reception of God Eater on Steam, I don't think being designed around portables is the vice to be worried about.

It's that VC2 is just plain trash. VC3 is fine though, for obvious reasons.

 

[Crankshaft]

I play VC2 on the playstation tv and it looks fine. I really don't think the game needs to be "remade" they could do a decent remaster of the game. I really want VC3 to come over here...

 

[BRSxIgnition]

How do you know that for sure? because of the voices here or Youtube comments?

I know that because of the voices here who had hands on time with its Battle Demo 1.0, as well as those who have watched full videos of playthroughs of that same demo.

Action RPG's have a much lower entry point to get into, and are alot more friendly to new gamers or those who are unfamiliar with the genre than traditional RPG's as the strategy game elements are what could have turned people away from the original games.

Your first point - that Action RPGs are easier to get into - is an opinion; and even if Action RPGs are objectively 'easier' - which is difficult to measure - the fact that they are more attractive to players will always depend on the player themselves.

My statements were never about inviting new players into the series - they were about staying true to the series core values and roots, and presenting those strengths once more in a new, updated entry into the series; one that doesn't completely swap genres and buckle under the lofty possibility of new players/sales.

Why bother making the changes then?

They are already committed to releasing this game...at this point and seeing the feedback from the original Demo put them in sort of tough spot. They could not afford to waste all their efforts with the current engine by discarding it and retooling the old engine to work with the new game...

I fully understand what you're trying to say here, and I agree with you, but...

they could not make the deadline by doing so.

... if this is the case, then they should have delayed it and worked to make sure that the changes do enough to encapsulate what players want. Even if VAR is a spin off, every commercially 'failed' release in the 'Valkyria' series is another nail in the coffin that SEGA is building around the IP.

Special care should be taken with it to make sure that - even if it's a spin off - it helps the IP rather than hinders it further. It simply can't take much more abuse, in my opinion.

So I'm going to go out on a limb and believe that they had to make some sort of compromise with in the development cycle to make this game appeal to long time fans by making it feel/seem familiar and keep some of their original ideas/goals they had initially planned.

That seems to be what they're doing now, but like I said above, if time is a factor, a delay would be safer for the continued longevity of the 'Valkyria' IP than continuing on with the originally planned development cycle and releasing it 4 months after its final 2.0 Battle Demo.

Unless there's a complete 180 on the public's opinion of the game from Battle Demo 1.0 to 2.0, there will be very little time to implement changes to the point where the final product will be worthy - again, in my opinion - of the 'Valkyria' series IP. I can almost 100% guarantee that many other players feel the exact same way.

There's a level of quality that needs to be achieved for VAR to be seen as 'worthy' by veteran Valkyria Chronicles players, let alone new players, and if the bar isn't met, it's another nail in the coffin, like I mentioned before.

Vita Port?
If it's possible, then they should attempt it. We do not know how intensive this game was for it to be "watered down" to fit the Vita port, there is no way in knowing until it's released, however I think they wanted to keep in the good spirits of the fans they gained during the handheld era of Valkyria Chronicles.

The game - with all it's post processing effects and such - likely needed to be watered down a fair bit during its porting process between the PS4 and Vita, but like you say, we don't know the degree to which that occurred. You may also be correct about 'keeping in the good spirits of the fans they gained during the handheld era of Valkyria Chronicles' but I personally don't believe that to be the case.

The sudden announcement of the port and release date at the same time comes off as a strictly business decision to wrap up production on the project due to the fan reaction, and push it out to the two biggest platforms it can to reach maximum exposure without dedicating additional resources to a complete reworking of the project.

No one quite understands what Sega is doing in the grand scheme of things, but regarding this franchise, they at least acknowledge the western audience and if we take that into consideration, they maybe planning to release VAR into the west to see if the franchise is still viable here. The game being released on PS4 does help improve those chances and if Sega keeps their expectations low, we just may see future titles here as well...granted that VAR isn't a complete POS.

This all goes back to what I mentioned above - the success or failure of VAR will dictate the future of the franchise, and based on the videos and feedback and sudden changes/announcements I've seen, I do not feel comfortable with the odds as they are now.

Essentially, there are a few possibilities of how this will play out, all based around the possible plans SEGA has for the franchise.

1. VAR is critically panned, fails to reach sales targets for SEGA, and was planned as a 'test' of the franchise's future viability. Future 'Valkyria' releases are shelved.
2. VAR is critically panned, fails to reach sales targets for SEGA, and was always planned as a spin-off. SEGA takes its failure as a sign of what not to do, and while listening to fan feedback, work begins in earnest on a new mainline 'Valkyria Chronicles' title.
3. VAR is well received, succeeds in reaching sales targets for SEGA, and was planned as a 'test' of the franchise's future viability. Future chances off 'Valkyria' titles are bolstered, either as an ARPG or SRPG.
4. VAR is well received, succeeds in reaching sales targets for SEGA, and was always planned as a spin-off. SEGA takes its success as a sign of renewed interest in the IP and dedicates proper, full resources towards a new, mainline, 'Valkyria Chronicles' title.

Like most things, of course, there will always be other possibilities - but I believe those that I've outlined above are four of the most likely situations to come out of the possible success and possible failure of VAR.

I sincerely hope that VAR is simply being treated as a spin-off - as has been hinted at through the development team's use of the separate 'Revolution' and 'Chronicles'/'War' naming schemes for the titles during interviews - and work on a proper SRPG sequel/reboot to 'Valkyria Chronicles' is underway, or begins as a response to VAR.

 

[CloudStrife_ca]

Heres to still hoping for a Valkyria Chronicles localization of VC3, I've heard its amazing. I bought Valkyria Revolution and will hopefully get some time with it over the weekend. I hope its not as bad as the reviews and people are saying but I can't remember too many people overly excited about the first game either.

 

[Synth]

OMFG I THOUGHT THERE WAS ACTUALLY SOME NEWS WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?

 

[Ray Down]

This franchise is hilarious mismanaged.

 

[Weebos]

Why would you bump this and hurt my heart?

 

[ModBot]

learn proper bump etiquette, please.