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[Izuna]

I almost made this thread a couple of times as it was happening and honestly, I'm glad I didn't. I have however learnt something and I wish to share it with you guys.

I decided to sell a FIFA 17 code on eBay that came with my Xbox One S ~ in fact, I also listed someone else's code, because they ALSO bought one.

• I listed the Codes before I actually had them, just when Tesco confirmed my order (it was delivering to a pick-up location
• They both sold for the delicious price of £42
• Because I didn't actually have the codes, my listing said I'd message them within 24 hours (in the title) and messaged the buyers asking them to wait patiently -- User 1, and User 2

Not a day later, just before I collect the code (was at Uni), I get these messages. The listing is deleted.

So of course, I'm thinking...

Interesting scam... But I haven't even sent anything. Fuck it, I'll list it again. Whatevs. Let's call this guy User 1, the OG scam artist.

Another buyer purchases the code (this dude is User 3), and all's good. I'm expecting that I have to refund the money but whatever, it's not like I had lost anything, right?

It's about 1 and a half days later, and after I send the codes....

MOTHER. FUCKER. User 2!

This was AFTER I sent the code. Bare in mind, this is the dude who I told to wait a day (who never replied to that). I send a series of messages back and forth and say that I'm aware I'm being scammed, bla bla bla eBay/PayPal will be able to see that there are no refunds for this sort of item bla bla bla... I mean, what a dick? (he seemed to be playing dumb as he said he never received a code, but I referred him to the eBay messages I sent where it was)

We completed our review of this case. Please log in to your PayPal account,
and go to the Resolution Centre to see the details of our decision.

Yours sincerely,
PayPal

Sincerely fuck you PayPal. So here are a few things I have learnt:

• There is no Seller Protection unless you ship something and have proof of it.
• If you do have Seller Protection, you get to keep the money, and the user who claims unauthorised buyer gets their money BACK
• Resolution Centre is really quick and snappy when it fucks me over

So this is about where I was going to make this thread yesterday.

I have sold 2 codes 3 times
One of them is refunded, so I have money for selling 2 codes
I'm shitting myself because if the first buyer who claimed this asks for a refund, I would be a code down

By this point, I'm thinking how the fuck can PayPal do something like this, while also thinking that I should have just posted the code after the fact and at least that way I would keep the money. What a scam, right?

--

As it turns out, the code sent to User 2, hasn't been redeemed. Oh? Was he telling the truth? Was he actually hacked then?

I relist the code, and a day later (it still hasn't been redeemed...) the code sells to User 4. Who so far, seems legit.

• This means that the hacker of User 2 didn't get to run away because I delayed sending the code.
• Always, ALWAYS be prepared to actually ship the codes for Seller Protection to kick in
• If I had, eBay/PayPal would have taken the hit, and I would have walked away with more money than I deserved (which is besides the point)

So, happy ending with a lesson learnt no?

User 1, the first scammer, and User 3, who bought the relisted code... Is the same eBay user.

That code HAS been used. I don't know what's going on, but I'm okay with refunding one of them, but if this User tries to refund them both, I'm going to ship it.




tl;dr

If you sell codes on eBay, make sure you fit the criteria for Seller Protection (which means shipping the code).

 

[Aztechnology]

This is why I don't use Ebay. GAF B/S/T is the best for digital goods.

Amazon for physical goods.

 

[Izuna]

This is why I don't use Ebay. GAF B/S/T is the best for digital goods.

Amazon for physical goods.

To be fair, if someone on eBay did this and I couldn't physically ship them anything there would be no way to get Seller Protection.

Seller beware.

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

I listed the Codes before I actually had them, just when Tesco confirmed my order (it was delivering to a pick-up location

Don't list stuff you don't have.

Also, sell stuff like this here:

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1221967

 

[Shiggy]

Can't you ask for other payment options that Paypal? When I sold some codes, I either offered Paypal for family (no refunds for buyer) or just normal bank transfer.

 

[Izuna]

Don't list stuff you don't have.

Also, sell stuff like this here:

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1221967

True, but if I didn't I would have lost out on money. It was only the delay that saved me.

Can't you ask for other payment options that Paypal? When I sold some codes, I either offered Paypal for family (no refunds for buyer) or just normal bank transfer.

Well, this is eBay.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

OP, Here is the problem. Unless I'm missing something, you listed codes for sale before you actually had them and didn't put that in the selling info for that to be known ahead of time? Yes, the buyer may be scamming you but you won't have a leg to stand on by doing that. It'll look like you are the one in the wrong. At the very least, you should've put "pre-order" or "for hold" in listing. Live and learn.

 

[Pjsprojects]

I stopped selling codes on EBay after getting twenty of the twenty codes I sold charged back by so called stolen EBay accounts.
PayPal give zero cover on digital items.

I lost Fifa 16,BO3,Alien Iso,As Syndicate and Madmax codes.

Never again.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

True, but if I didn't I would have lost out on money. It was only the delay that saved me.



Well, this is eBay.

I barely understand any of the stuff in the OP, but can you at least explain why you would have lost money waiting for the item to actually be in your hands before you sold it?

 

[Firecrest]

You're lucky your account wasn't suspended or banned since that's what happened to me. Despite many people still doing it, emailing or messaging game codes is against eBay's ToS.

Even if you mailed a printed code, it's still a gamble. eBay is chock full o' scammers and they'll always side with the buyer in any case.

 

[nemisis0]

Same thing happend to me with fifa 17, buyer did a chargeback and I had proof of postage for the card but paypal didn't even help out it just seemed like they ignored that evidence and also the buyer even messaged me asking if I could send the code via eBay message please, I did and also said will sending the code via mail for fraud protection, so much for that fraud protection which is paypal.

 

[MrDenny]

I believe it's technically against eBay policy to sell dlc codes unless your an authorized seller or owner.

 

[Izuna]

I barely understand any of the stuff in the OP, but can you at least explain why you would have lost money waiting for the item to actually be in your hands before you sold it?

Whoever hacked User 2 only had temporary access to the account. If I send the code straight away (which I would have done if I had the item in hand), he would have used it only for the real User 2 to go through the process of getting the refund.

Though the answer to this problem is to just ship stuff so PayPal lets me keep the money.

I don't think hacking an eBay account is worthwhile to people unless it involves instant codes. (the original owner is probably alerted fairly quickly about the order)

 

[nemisis0]

I believe it's technically against eBay policy to sell dlc codes unless your an authorized seller or owner.

You are aloud as long as you send it via post since many games and services like xbox live come as a card with a download code.

 

[Shiggy]

Well, this is eBay.

Yeah, so I either offer bank transfer on eBay or "PayPal for friends and family" on their eBay's local listings site.

 

[Izuna]

Same thing happend to me with fifa 17, buyer did a chargeback and I had proof of postage for the card but paypal didn't even help out it just seemed like they ignored that evidence and also the buyer even messaged me asking if I could send the code via eBay message please, I did and also said will sending the code via mail for fraud protection, so much for that fraud protection which is paypal.

Woooooow, so it doesn't even matter?

 

[BigEmil]

EBay is so shit nowadays especially for sellers. They're much more buyer biased these days compared to years ago so much scams to be had and the buyer can easily get away with it.

 

[Izuna]

I stopped selling codes on EBay after getting twenty of the twenty codes I sold charged back by so called stolen EBay accounts.
PayPal give zero cover on digital items.

I lost Fifa 16,BO3,Alien Iso,As Syndicate and Madmax codes.

Never again.

Fuck me. That's terrible.

OP, Here is the problem. Unless I'm missing something, you listed codes for sale before you actually had them and didn't put that in the selling info for that to be known ahead of time? Yes, the buyer may be scamming you but you won't have a leg to stand on by doing that. It'll look like you are the one in the wrong. At the very least, you should've put "pre-order" or "for hold" in listing. Live and learn.

Nah I mentioned in both the title and the descriptions that the codes won't be instant. I only did that because I was picking the code up from Tesco Direct the next afternoon.

So far I can't be sure that I was "scammed" by any User, since all is well (User 2 is my hero for not using the code), but hacked eBay accounts... I mean, anyone can claim that, right? Use a VPN or whatever.

 

[Rellik]

I believe it's technically against eBay policy to sell dlc codes unless your an authorized seller or owner.

Which is why there is no protection.

 

[JaseC]

I've only had a couple of bad experiences on eBay, but fortunately both were just minor annoyances in the end.

1) I bought a retail copy of Crashed from a seller in France for the purpose of registering the included key on Steam. The seller claimed to have sent it, however two weeks later it still hadn't arrived, which prompted me to send a message to the seller and wait another week, in the interest of being fair. Nothing, so I filed an unreceived item dispute, which the seller ignored, thereby forcing me to wait for eBay/PayPal to automatically rule in my favour.

2) I sold a GTX 980 after upgrading to a 980 Ti. The first buyer never sent payment, but also never prodded me about sending it, and in fact he failed to communicate with me at all post-sale. I eventually elected to cancel the transaction (a brain fart on my part as I should have filed an unpaid item dispute instead), and, much like the above, he ignored the matter, again resulting in me waiting impatiently for an automatic ruling in my favour.

Woooooow, so it doesn't even matter?

I get the feeling that eBay is less helpful in countries where it has less of an associated legal obligation. I don't think I've ever heard of someone being screwed over by eBay AU.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

I had quite a few bad experiences with eBay the last couple of times I used the site as well OP (Europe here). I've decided to never use the platform again. Far too many bad apples in the basket, and I feel like you have no protection as a seller at all.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Just follow the rules set down by eBay and both the buyer and seller are protected.

 

[Moozo]

Was thinking of buying the Gears of War deal that's on at Game at the moment and just selling the FIFA code but I think it's more risk than it's worth.

 

[Izuna]

Was thinking of buying the Gears of War deal that's on at Game at the moment and just selling the FIFA code but I think it's more risk than it's worth.

Just never send the codes via a message, I suppose. Ship the card itself.

 

[dealer-]

I sold two Fifa 17 codes on eBay recently for £35 each and both the buyers thanked me for the speed of sending them over via message. It is probably best to sell them locally though.

 

[jabberwocker]

Buying and selling on eBay is fine. You just have to be smart about it. Look at their selling and buying transaction history you can usually find out a lot about a buyer or seller right there. You're selling digital codes, if you're going to send it digitally better make sure your buyers have some tenure like 50 ratings or more. Generally your chances decrease drastically of any type of mishap if it's an established eBay person.

 

[Rellik]

Was thinking of buying the Gears of War deal that's on at Game at the moment and just selling the FIFA code but I think it's more risk than it's worth.

Sell them on here.

 

[Izuna]

Buying and selling on eBay is fine. You just have to be smart about it. Look at their selling and buying transaction history you can usually find out a lot about a buyer or seller right there. You're selling digital codes, if you're going to send it digitally better make sure your buyers have some tenure like 50 ratings or more. Generally your chances decrease drastically of any type of mishap if it's an established eBay person.

User 2 who was hacked at 107, all positive. I don't think it particularly matters.

 

[Portugeezer]

I mean, you could easily scam them so eBay has no way to protect the seller of a text code. I only ever sell things on eBay with proof of delivery because there are a small handful of pricks who would say they haven't received something.

 

[SmokedMeat]

The sad part is there's virtually no protection for the seller on eBay. But I do agree with others who stated not to list what you don't yet have in your hands. It's a very risky move.

Edit: Did you send the email with a "read receipt" to show that it's been opened? Would eBay then be allowed to check the users gamer tag to see if the game was in their library?

 

[mangochutney]

It is against eBay's rules to sell something you don't have. You should have waited before putting it up for sale.

Also, I'm guessing they've loosened up the rules on digital codes? A few years ago I had a Windows licence that I'd never used and figured I sell the code.

Did so and eBay removed the item claiming it had to be a physical item (obviously it was a physical licence, but my listing just said I'd email the code) and that digital codes are not permitted.

You often see items with words to the effect of 'because of eBay rules you'll be emailed code then posted it physically' - and obviously as you say regardless of eBay's rules, you have zero seller protection.

 

[Pjsprojects]

I mean, you could easily scam them so eBay has no way to protect the seller of a text code. I only ever sell things on eBay with proof of delivery because there are a small handful of pricks who would say they haven't received something.

Unless you have a tracked parcel with the customers signature at the end, your proof of postage is worthless.
Never send items to business addresses in case some Joe Blogs signs for it.
Also now days I'm seeing a lot of pay day loan sellers.
This works where the seller sells items they don't own and knows the items sell quickly.
The buyer pays by PayPal and never gets a response. In the end you place a claim and finally PayPal refund you but by that time the seller has been paid and so has the money for the refund.
Never buy things near the end of the month.

 

[Izuna]

Edit: Did you send the email with a "read receipt" to show that it's been opened? Would eBay then be allowed to check the users gamer tag to see if the game was in their library?

They wouldn't do this. It's hard enough to get the police to follow up on complaints. eBay won't be checking stuff on a case by case basis.

also, eBay != PayPal these days. So long as PayPal "verifies" that the account was compromised etc. they ask for specific proof of delivery.

It is against eBay's rules to sell something you don't have. You should have waited before putting it up for sale.

I wish I didn't include that part in the OP because it's besides the point. But noted. I sometimes get restless and will list something that's being delivered. I guess I can see why that can go very wrong.

 

[score01]

Op - i posted the following in an off-topic thread about how to avoid eBay scams.

I got scammed the same way by a user claiming someone else fraudulently used their eBay account to purchase something. I lost my goods and my money. This was a good five years ago and it seems as though nothing has changed. That incident stopped me using eBay. As a seller you seem to have no rights. Fuck eBay.

 

[jabberwocker]

User 2 who was hacked at 107, all positive. I don't think it particularly matters.

Yeah but why didn't the seller send the code through eBay messaging? That goes to the listed email address to the person who owns the account. If the buyer says I didn't get the code it's documented. Something doesn't add up here.

 

[VyechnayaSlava]

Digitally Delivered Goods are not allowed on eBay for this very reason. Without tracking that shows delivery of an item, of course eBay can't protect you. They can't verify of emails are sent that contain a working code, nor can they verify that the code itself wasn't bupkis. It's common sense. Not sure what you were expecting, OP. If you do sell a code on eBay, send it to the buyer physically tracked and NOT via email

 

[Izuna]

Yeah but why didn't the seller send the code through eBay messaging? That goes to the listed email address to the person who owns the account. If the buyer says I didn't get the code it's documented. Something doesn't add up here.

I did send it through eBay Messenging...

PayPal doesn't give a shit, I showed the pictures of it and everything.

The thing is, User 2 was mot definitely hacked so it's justice for him to get a refund anyway. I got lucky.

I got hit by the unauthorised user email about 10-15 minutes after sending this, so I was not happy.

Dude is legit as fuck for not using the code.

 

[MooMilk2929]

I still like ebay for used physical stuff. Mainly cause almost everyone takes a pic of what they are selling. Thank god digital cameras became so common. I also check the description to see what shape I'm ordering is in. Well, I don't get dvd's from ebay really cause a pic of that isn't nessesary. There's some good dvd deals on amazon. I used ebay to get my psp and I'm glad. If not I could have ended up with a crummy psp like the refurbished one I bought from gamestop online.

 

[jabberwocker]

Digitally Delivered Goods are not allowed on eBay for this very reason. Without tracking that shows delivery of an item, of course eBay can't protect you. They can't verify of emails are sent that contain a working code, nor can they verify that the code itself wasn't bupkis. It's common sense. Not sure what you were expecting, OP. If you do sell a code on eBay, send it to the buyer physically tracked and NOT via email

Yeah but physically track doesn't mean someone still can't scam. As the could say the code was invalid. If eBay was smart they would have a system in place that holds the code and the transfers done at the time of sale. Most gift cards usually you can validate before using I don't know why this type of system is not in place .

 

[jabberwocker]

I did send it through eBay Messenging...

PayPal doesn't give a shit, I showed the pictures of it and everything.

The thing is, User 2 was mot definitely hacked so it's justice for him to get a refund anyway. I got lucky.

I got hit by the unauthorised user email about 10-15 minutes after sending this, so I was not happy.

Dude is legit as fuck for not using the code.

Oh I'm wrong then sorry. Well then there it is I guess don't sell codes over eBay.

 

[jblank83]

There is no Seller Protection unless you ship something and have proof of it.

Even with shipping proof, they'll likely find in favor of the buyer.

 

[Alucrid]

Yeah but physically track doesn't mean someone still can't scam. As the could say the code was invalid. If eBay was smart they would have a system in place that holds the code and the transfers done at the time of sale. Most gift cards usually you can validate before using I don't know why this type of system is not in place .

because the amount of keys that are sold and the number of those deals which go south aren't worth investing in an entire system for it

 

[Shai-Tan]

digital items are not protected through paypal and ebay - expect to be scammed. I got scammed by a seller which was top 10 results on google for years when searching for psn cards (luckily it's finally gone now EDIT: nevermind, I think they renamed themselves to escape negative reviews)

on ebay in particular it's against the rules to sell digital items so you have to pretend to be selling a physical product and these sellers who I have bought from in the past would refuse to sell to people in some locations because of the potential for scamming.

 

[Phatcorns]

Whenever I sell digital codes on eBay now I always send it to them physically as well. I've been cheated out of money pretty much every time I haven't. People will just do PayPal chargebacks and neither PayPal nor ebay care unless you've shipped a physical product.

 

[Cynar]

Woooooow, so it doesn't even matter?

It's still a digital good unfortunately so they won't help. It sucks. ;(

 

[SmokedMeat]

I still like ebay for used physical stuff. Mainly cause almost everyone takes a pic of what they are selling. Thank god digital cameras became so common. I also check the description to see what shape I'm ordering is in. Well, I don't get dvd's from ebay really cause a pic of that isn't nessesary. There's some good dvd deals on amazon. I used ebay to get my psp and I'm glad. If not I could have ended up with a crummy psp like the refurbished one I bought from gamestop online.

A buyer can easily state the item received isn't as in good of shape as what was pictured. Could've been damaged in shipping. Or the buyer was buying a nicer version of something they already owned, and looking to swap out theirs for yours. They show eBay their roughed up version claiming that's the one you sent.

 

[rockx4]

Digital items aren't protected. I've sold codes before... with shipping. I basically shipped the code printed out with delivery confirmation.

 

[Wagram]

Luckily I haven't had this type of issue with codes there. I've sold about 5 of them, but this sure does sound like a nightmare.

 

[GavinUK86]

Yup. Happened to me.

I sold a digital code for The Witcher 3 I got from a GPU bundle, guy paid me, I sent the code, got a chargeback, PayPal didn't believe me and refunded the guys money and charged me for looking into it.

So, I lost the game code, the money for it, and had to pay out for losing it.

I haven't used Ebay or Paypal since. Fuck 'em.

 

[Shai-Tan]

If you don't want to follow the "send a physical product" rule (if you're selling in any volume people don't appreciate waiting) then you should try to limit who you sell to

examples:

-only try to sell to people with 10+ positive feedback
-only sell to people in certain locations e.g. North America
-require contact for those without much feedback and be very suspicious (some even require phone verification, etc to catch fraud on the payment end)