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[Chie Satonaka]

The result of generations of social conditioning to see black as bad.

Yeah, I know. I have friends of Korean descent who's parents have said similar things.

But it's never just been so... blunt. It's incredible that people can actually look at others and feel that way. It's so ugly.

 

[tkscz]

Man, I think I'm a racist...

I am rarely attracted by black or Asian women. I am very attracted by women from the Middle East, though.

Is it bad to be racist, but not display it apart from your sexual preferences?

Oh for fuck's sake, you are not racist because you don't find them physically attractive. What's with this idea that you have to be attracted to every race? Do you hate them? Are you judging them because of their race? If no, then you are not racist, you are just not attracted to them.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

For me (straight white male) it's black women.

I see how beautiful some of them are, but I just don't get sexually turned on by them.

I don't see how this is racist.

You just can't tell people what to like or not to like in a partner.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Are they seeing it as a flaw, or just not attracted to it. If they see it as a flaw, I can agree with you, but it's possible to just not be attracted to a skin tone, without seeing it as a flaw.

Why are we attracted to smooth skin, white teeth, a full head of hair, etc? To say that you're not attracted to a physical quality in someone is the same as identifying it as a flaw. If someone says they won't date anyone with yellow teeth it's very obvious as to why they would feel that way, yet we act like the same mindset doesn't apply if someone is discussing a person's race in similar terms. What is a preference if not a hierarchical ranking?

 

[Shuggananas]

Why are we attracted to smooth skin, white teeth, a full head of hair, etc? To say that you're not attracted to a physical quality in someone is the same as identifying it as a flaw.

So if I'm into redheads it means I think blonde hair is a flaw ?
What the hell

 

[Jaffaboy]

Living abroad in Asia these past 8 years, I've seen first-hand what racial preferences do to people. The sexual objectification and preferential treatment of a person, based on race, is a disgusting practice that reduces people to objects who are there solely to fulfill an exotic fantasy.

Just last month a middle-aged Australian guy told me, over coffee "Yeah, I've got the yellow fever, mate."

He had no qualms about saying it like that; seemingly oblivious to the fact that he sounded like a disgusting, racist pig.

I can't get too deep into discussion on the subject due to an extreme level of cynicism, but I'm happy to answer questions about some of the more topical observations I've made while living in South Korea and now here in Taiwan.

Fun Observation: 85-90% of the white males I HAVE PERSONALLY MET in Asia date Asian women, and it's rarely because the women are "the larger demographic, more fish in the sea, etc." It's because most of them, by their own admission, have racist, stereotypical views of how Asian women can satisfy their needs.

Having a preference, one way or the other, is just wrong, in my opinion. It suggests that you're not with someone because they appeal to you as a social and emotional being; they appeal to you because of their exotic beauty and can fulfill a fantasy role.

Also, here's a fantastic read on the subject of the "Asian Fetish":

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...otic-beauty-part-ii-the-case-the-asian-fetish

I agree, also from my own experience, that there's a huge majority of white men in Asia that think and act this way, but to be fair I've noticed it fairly often from Asian girls chasing white guys, AND Asian guys chasing white girls. Flat out saying 'I don't date Korean guys' or 'I'm not interested in Japanese girls, I only date white women'. I think some people are motivated to learn English here purely so they can find a white partner easier, and the same goes for foreigners learning the local language (especially in Japan).

I think in a lot of cases these preferences are based on misconceptions and fantasies, driven by curiosity in the differences between easterners and westerners, but that's not always a bad thing, especially when people do have successful relationships and are happy with each other. I think your 85-90% estimate is unfair, and as you said yourself, too cynical. Not everybody comes from a creepy mindset, it's sometimes just what you find attractive, and what spurs your curiosity. I think that it's just as damaging to tar people with the same brush that do actually date outside of their ethnicity, and stigmatise them as much as the people that only date within their own ethnicity. I definitely don't want a girlfriend that's submissive and will look after me, but I also don't want to feel like I can't date an Asian girl because of what people assume our relationship is like.

 

[TanookiTom]

I always found it very rude to say the least if I see people writing stuff like "No asians" or "No blacks" in their dating profile.

That being said I don't think I ever felt myself attracted to an Asian man, and rarely to Black men. But I also rarely find myself attracted to blond men, or beardless men. So yeah...

Why do I think so many guys write no blacks/asians/whatever in their profile? Because many guys on dating apps are rude. They just want to get straight to the point and not waste any time. They're not attracted to specific people - and they write it on their profile. Inconsiderate and rude? Yes? Racist? I think it's a stretch to call all of them racist.

 

[tkscz]

Why are we attracted to smooth skin, white teeth, a full head of hair, etc? To say that you're not attracted to a physical quality in someone is the same as identifying it as a flaw. If someone says they won't date anyone with yellow teeth it's very obvious as to why they would feel that way, yet we act like the same mindset doesn't apply if someone is discussing a person's race in similar terms. What is a preference if not a hierarchical ranking?

I don't agree with you on this. Attraction does not always equate to seeing something as flawless. Attraction is an opinion in which you find something appealing or not. If you don't find something appealing, you don't necessarily considered something flawed. You don't like the color pink? You don't see it as a flawed color, the color just doesn't appeal to you.

 

[Skyzard]

Skin colour is pretty big for so many people. A lighter tone is more attractive in lots of places around the world, umbrellas for the sun etc.
I think because black is darker and harder to see it's seen as more aggressive, and darker tones as well to be less clean. if humans share anything with my dog, especially those who aren't as used to seeing it. Might be my own bias showing in the latter part. I dont know why but white seems cleaner, might just be a nature thing. Im not white, I'm attracted most often to white with some tan (Spain is great, Greece too) and middle eastern.

I know it sounds horrible.

It's probably media. Tan wasn't that big before but it's seen as healthier now. Maybe some black dogs roughed up mine and now he's a racist.

 

[neojubei]

Many things? What else do you hate about the gay community?

Lots of things especially being a gay man in a fucked up community. That's a whole other thread

 

[Daedardus]

I've pondered about this for a while and the way I'm seeing it is the following.

Sexual preference and racism aren't nearly the same. Racism is the act of denying someone's chances in life, being hateful towards someone, or ignoring someone solely based on race. Sexual preference is just a biological trick in finding similar mates, as the evolutionary principle thought us that we best mate with alike-but-slightly-different people. Along the way, we 'forgot' that people with different skin color aren't very different at all compared to us, and that there's actually not a big danger in mating someone with a different color, but the preference remains. Whether this is pure socially constructed or ingrained in our almost-defunct instincts, I don't know, that's a good debate for nurture vs. nature.

For example, I'm not actually atrracted to black women. However, I'm still very kind to them, help them whenever I can, hold no prejudice towards them and have some as my friends. And I'm capable of saying someone is beautiful, even though I, personally, am not attracted to her. Another good counterexample would be for example gays. Gays aren't sexually attracted to women unless they are bi, but are we saying that all gays display sexist behaviour? If you are straight, are you being hateful towards your own gender? If you like brown hair more than blonde, do you suddenly discrimate against blondes? Maybe preferences aren't just preferences, seeing as if you grew up in a racist socially constructed area, there's a possibility that that construction automatically wrote off the sexual preference, but I believe it doesn't always happen the other way around.

 

[Usobuko]

Is my wife racist? She is asian and she and her friends always avoid the sun because they dont want a tan and want to look as pale as possible. Anyway she never dated a blackguy because she dont think black/dark skin looks nice.

She has alot of asian, white and a few black friends and she dosent think any bad of any of them, she just wont date one.

So is she racist?

She is.

Sometimes I wonder how much media perception plays a part in their formative years.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

So if I'm into redheads it means I think blonde hair is a flaw ?
What the hell

In terms of, say, how successful or equipped for the world or fairly treated a potential kid would be? Yeah. You can remove reproduction from sex, but what attracts us is still very much based on qualities pertaining to reproduction. Do you think black women have a lower response rate across the board on dating sites because guys just have an innate, biological predisposition against them? If it was truly random biological preference, we'd see consistent rates regardless. It's largely to do with societal influence telling us what it means to be a white man, or a black woman, or whatever and how that shapes one's livelihood. Given the choice, even a person who is not opposed to dating a person of any race would likely try to find a mate who has all the de jure advantages society can afford them. There are reasons that a person is attracted to what they're attracted to, it's not entirely encoded in us.

 

[tkscz]

In terms of, say, how successful or equipped for the world or fairly treated a potential kid would be? Yeah. You can remove reproduction from sex, but what attracts us is still very much based on qualities pertaining to reproduction. Do you think black women have a lower response rate across the board on dating sites because guys just have an innate, biological predisposition against them? If it was truly random biological preference, we'd see consistent rates regardless. It's largely to do with societal influence telling us what it means to be a white man, or a black woman, or whatever and how that shapes one's livelihood. Given the choice, even a person who is not opposed to dating a person of any race would likely try to find a mate who has all the de jure advantages society can afford them. There are reasons that a person is attracted to what they're attracted to, it's not entirely encoded in us.

Then why am i attracted to fat women? I seriously get this question too much and wouldn't mind an answer.

 

[Bright Side of Life]

***slight derail NOT because I didn't read OP but first two stories are non dating related but still deal with race and gender, long post so bolded for TL;DR purposes***

Shopping with my mum when I was 12 and a young Japanese woman was frantic because her bus card was missing. Offered to give her a ride home but she was hesitant even though it's a 50 yr old mom and her 12 yr daughter, possible exchange student due to her English was more like Engrish. Walked her home (2 mi away), invited us in and gave us some tea leaves and some Japanese fabric swatches.

Driving home from work during a mild snow storm (warning there was a big one coming so got to leave early), saw a teenaged guy walking on the outer road, immediate thought gotta stop and see where he's going/drop him off near a Taco Bell or some place outta the cold plus stranger danger. Decided to loop back, asked him if he wants a ride back to Wal-Mart so he can chill until the storm subsides, he was actually just at Wal-Mart shopping for the storm but locked his keys in, cell died, and service desk didn't allow him to use the phone (dicks cause they usu do) so he was trying to make a run home. Offered a ride back and to use my cell and I'd wait until he got a AAA rep. While we waited (AAA was delayed cause obviously the storm did get worse), ate some Mickey D's, he was really surprised someone would go out of their way to help, was upfront I was hesitant because he was a guy and stranger danger coulda had weapon. Was more surprised I didn't say it was because he was black. <shrugged> didn't really occur to me that was an ish. Started hitting on me, brushed it off said," Charmed but asexual and in school so no" We laughed it off

Sexism/Racism/ism
Cashiering at Wal-Mart, older white vet comes in and immediately starts hitting on me, kinda brush it off as old guys got some spunk or whatever. Starts making sexual remarks like "When I was in Vietcong you gook girls couldn't get enough of me" again not bothered enough to get a manager probs shoulda whatever. Said the total, he asked if there was military discount, no unfortunately, should of ended there but, "So baby when you get off work I'll make you love me long time" Straight said, "Thanks but no thanks you've been hitting on an asexual here" and then he got huff and puff angry and started, "you

Spoiler

chink fag cunt

*, you don't fucking diss a war vet, something something I bet you're fucking some guy for a green card!" Big enough scene that we could have called the cops but he left of his own volition after giving me the finger, just said "Thanks for shopping, have nice day!" Manager kinda glanced at me and was like "you're throwing fuel on a fire y'know"

*will censor if against TOS ( I know you can't out and out say it but seems more on the fence since not directed at anyone or thing)

Me personally yeah I admit I can be racist/sexist/ism just like everyone else because but it's important not to have it on blast all the time. Y'know "stealth/self promotional" dating preference for me:
-OK with basically a gay guy trapped in an asexual girl's body (if it weren't for the cost yeah I'd sex change in a heartbeat)
-OK with no sexual intimacy unless on my terms when I'm ready if I'm ever ready. I'm not gonna force myself to have sex just to maintain a relationship just like I'm not forcing you into a sexless relationship. Pretty obvious I'm virgin (in all aspects) isn't?
-Would prefer bi because obvious reasons (guy's heart in a girl's body, everyone wins)
-Race, tall, short, thin, thick, whatever as long as it's not a medical issue (borderline anorexic/overweight to the point where it could lead to heart attack)
-Glasses optional it's my fetish don't wear if don't need (that pisses me off when peeps have lenseless glasses--when did four eyes become cool)
-Likes long hair on guys, short on girls, black/brown hair=white (albino)>red=bald=blond=dyed weird color
-Must put up with my manga reading, insufferable obsession with food and food related things like TV shows and dropping knowledge bombs, love of corgis, cats, octopi, and owls, over analytical and critical side of me when it comes to the arts, drawing comics about lesbians trapped in reverse harem hells, etc. I will be OK with your need to watch porn and maybe will join you and provide commentary as I too read yaoi, yuri, hentai, ecchi stuff.

PM if interested (sort of joking sort of not)

 

[M3d10n]

It's racism, pure and simple, in its most primal and unfiltered form.

Most people just don't realize it because it's subconscious prejudice that was slowly and gradually absorbed during their formative years and they have a hard time recognizing it as such so many will go full defensive when confronted about it because they cannot accept there's something "evil" in them.

The same thing applies to "I wouldn't date a { insert physical characteristic that's portrayed negatively by the media and society here }" statements. A large part of what constitutes the finer points of our attraction is acquired from what we have been exposed to, which our subconscious uses to construct the images of our ideal mates. That's why such thing can vary a lot between different cultures.

When you realize that, it becomes possible to question and challenge your own attraction. Many people are afraid of falling in love by someone that might not fit in their preconceived idea of what an attractive person should look like. Just like hunger can make food tastier, love can make people sexier. Personal experience.

 

[TanookiTom]

It's racism, pure and simple, in its most primal and unfiltered form.

Most people just don't realize it because it's subconscious prejudice that was slowly and gradually absorbed during their formative years and they have a hard time recognizing it as such so many will go full defensive when confronted about it because they cannot accept there's something "evil" in them.

The same thing applies to "I wouldn't date a { insert physical characteristic that's portrayed negatively by the media here }" statements. A large part of what constitutes the finer points of our attraction is acquired from what we have been exposed to, which our subconscious uses to construct the images of our ideal mates.

When you realize that, it becomes possible to question and challenge your own attraction. Many people are afraid of falling in love by someone that might not fit in their preconceived idea of what an attractive person should look like. Just like hunger can make food tastier, love can make people sexier. I'm going through this myself.

You're assuming that people who write that in their profile don't want to date Asians/Blacks/Whites etc. because they are racist and could not imagine it.

But they might just be rude and superficial not feel attracted to them - that's a very big assumption and imo a big difference.

Consider that many guys on grindr for example just wanna meet somebody to fuck and get it over with. Nothing more.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I don't agree with you on this. Attraction does not always equate to seeing something as flawless. Attraction is an opinion in which you find something appealing or not. If you don't find something appealing, you don't necessarily considered something flawed. You don't like the color pink? You don't see it as a flawed color, the color just doesn't appeal to you.

I don't think it can be compared to something as simple as a favorite color. There are reasons directly related to how healthy, successful, etc you feel a baby between you and the other person would be that determine what it is about someone that attracts you to them. Obesity isn't widely considered unattractive as an arbitrary preference, but because it is unhealthy. It is quantitatively less ideal than being a proper weight in terms of life span and how society will treat you. I'm simply positing that people view race in very similar terms when it comes to attraction. People "prefer" their own race the same way they "prefer" someone who is in shape and has a good career. They are seen as better qualities by that person, not just different qualities. Even with preferences in hair color it may seem entirely arbitrary, but there are reasons that some things appeal to us and other things don't, even if we've never sat down for an hour or two to think about why.

Even if a person wouldn't go as far as to say "x skin is better than y skin" they may feel, and not entirely inaccurately, that "x people are treated better than y people, so it wouldn't be in my best interest to raise a y kid". To give in to that idea, though, is still racism in my mind.

 

[Chuckie]

what scene is that from

i need to know for science

Misfits if I recall correctly.

 

[M3d10n]

You're assuming that people who write that in their profile don't want to date Asians/Blacks/Whites etc. because they are racist and could not imagine it.

But they might just be rude and superficial not feel attracted to them - that's a very big assumption.

They are not attracted because they are racist and don't realize it. Their attraction isn't an universal truth, it comes from somewhere.

And making a choice based solely on race is the definition of racism. It means you don't even look at the person beyond their race.

 

[JordanN]

Serious question: are humans the only animals on earth who actually refuse to have sex with each other based on skin color?

I've taken a lot of biology/social science classes and I don't ever recall reading species who stopped mating with each other because the other had different color fur/skin etc.

 

[M3d10n]

Serious question: are humans the only animals on earth who actually refuse to have sex with each other based on skin color?

I've taken a lot of biology/social science classes and I don't ever recall reading species who stopped mating with each other because the other had different color fur/skin etc.

Yes, because there's no biological basis for it. It's cultural. Just look at those OkCupid charts: Nearly everyone wants to fuck whites in the US.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Then why am i attracted to fat women? I seriously get this question too much and wouldn't mind an answer.

Cop-out answer here, but I'd probably have to know more about you on a personal level to say with any confidence. I have some preferences that are out of the norm as well. Just ask yourself what it is that you find attractive about fat women, when you first developed this attraction, who was involved in your life at the time, the kinds of things you've heard from family/friends/pop culture about fat women, etc. I think, if given enough thought, you'll arrive at some reasoning that goes more in depth than "I just like what I like".

 

[TanookiTom]

They are not attracted because they are racist and don't realize it. Their attraction isn't an universal truth, it comes from somewhere.

And making a choice based solely on race is the definition of racism. It means you don't even look at the person beyond their race.

Sorry that's just silly. How are you supposed to look at a person beyond their picture on a dating platform? Those are superficial by definition. Almost nobody even gives any kind of substantial information on there, so it's only about looks.

As I have said I find it superficial and rude to exclude people from certain races in this way, but I don't see it as racist unless the person does not want to have any contact with people of said races in general, and would not want to date a person despite affection just because of their race.

For me: I grew up in a quite homogenous, white society. I have had zero contact with Asian men for most of my life until I was an adult. Now I don't feel attracted to them.

If I ever meet an asian man IRL and fall in love - great! this wouldn't bother me in the least. Have I ever dated an Asian man through online dating? No, I have not. Does this make me racist? No I think not.

I even realized that after moving to a multicultural city like Berlin, that my preferences are changing because of who I am surrounded by. And I like that!

It would be great if we'd live in a world where we could love only based on the character of a person and in which looks are not important, but sadly this isn't the case. So yeah, saying preference = racism is just silly. And especially when you look at platforms where people might just be looking for a hook-up...

 

[M3d10n]

Cop-out answer here, but I'd probably have to know more about you on a personal level to say with any confidence. I have some preferences that are out of the norm as well. Just ask yourself what it is that you find attractive about fat women, when you first developed this attraction, who was involved in your life at the time, the kinds of things you've heard from family/friends/pop culture about fat women, etc. I think, if given enough thought, you'll arrive at some reasoning that goes more in depth than "I just like what I like".

Ding ding ding! Correct! Attraction is built during your life, it doesn't pop out from nowhere.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Cop-out answer here, but I'd probably have to know more about you on a personal level to say with any confidence. I have some preferences that are out of the norm as well. Just ask yourself what it is that you find attractive about fat women, when you first developed this attraction, who was involved in your life at the time, the kinds of things you've heard from family/friends/pop culture about fat women, etc. I think, if given enough thought, you'll arrive at some reasoning that goes more in depth than "I just like what I like".

This person gets it.

 

[KPJZKC]

The important thing to realize is we're all bad people.

Hope this isn't sarcasm, because it's my exact take on the situation. This stuff is really ingrained, and we'll never really get rid of it. The best people can do is be aware of their biases and assumptions.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

what scene is that from

i need to know for science

Better scene in GoT...

 

[M3d10n]

For me: I grew up in a quite homogenous, white society. I have had zero contact with Asian men for most of my life until I was an adult. Now I don't feel attracted to them.

Sorry, but you are a textbook example of what I was talking about. Non-exposure is one of the primary causes behind racism: it causes one to make assumptions about an entire race and act based on them.

Yes, online dating is about looks. But when you untick an entire race, you aren't even looking at them. You are ignoring the enormity of different body and face types that people can have, because in your subconscious "all people of X race look the same, and its ugly".

As soon as you begin thinking about "race" and not individual physical characteristics you are being racist.

 

[Bright Side of Life]

Things my mom says that piss me off:
"You're only asexual because you're obese and obese is ugly!" I'm 5'4 158lb. What.
"<insert female presidential candidate aside from Hil Clinton running> Oh she can't be president she's not smart like a man" My mom is going to vote for Hil Clinton.
"BSoL don't open the door if it's some one you don't know is knocking...especially if they're black and a man!" USPS needs me to sign for a package, "Sorry you're a black guy, gotta go to a pick it up at the Post Office just slide a pink slip under door please"
"Your friend Erica is the gay one right? Don't hang out with her she might rape you and make you gay" <leaves room because cannot deal with weird Asian older generation shit>

 

[Erin S Kittens]

Sorry that's just silly. How are you supposed to look at a person beyond their race on a dating platform? Those are superficial by definition. Almost nobody even gives any kind of substantial information on there, so it's only about looks.

What does this mean, can you elaborate?

 

[M3d10n]

So is every racial/ethnic preference racism? To be truly not racist, should you have absolutely 100% equal attraction to every race/ethnic group? Or is it only if you exclude a racial/ethnic group entirely that you are racist?

Just wondering what your thoughts are on that.

Yes. Ideally attraction should be gauged on a case by case scenario. When you are not attracted to an entire race, its racism. Because it's about race.

It's hard to acknowledge our own deeply ingrained racism, and it's even harder to change it, but even thinking about it is already a great win.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

So is every racial/ethnic preference racism? To be truly not racist, should you have absolutely 100% equal attraction to every race/ethnic group? Or is it only if you exclude a racial/ethnic group entirely that you are racist?

Just wondering what your thoughts are on that.

Depends. Consider this: a white guy who "doesn't date black chicks." This is pretty common. His reasoning may be that his image of black women is some objectified Nicki minaj-esque caricature whom his social circle would judge him for being involved with because she is, by default, "ghetto". While all you know is that he "doesn't date black chicks", the reasoning in this case is entirely racist.

When considering that your race is also a big factor in terms of your socioeconomic status, at least in America, it is hard for me to consider "racial preferences", especially if you're white and that preference is your own race, anything other than racist because the implication is that you don't date down, or something equally repugnant. It not only requires you to buy into that rhetoric, but become an enforcer of it. All-white neighborhoods require a lot of white people marrying other white people in order to stay that way. I know because I grew up in one. There was one Asian family in an otherwise white neighborhood and they were definitely not treated with the same sort of chummy folksiness that everyone else treated each other with.

I think as long as you're open to and willing to date anyone who you can recognize is an attractive person that you may share similar interests with, you're doing about as well as anyone can be expected to. Let's not pretend that people don't fall victim to societal pressure and expectations that they have grown/are growing to accept as their own value system, though.

 

[Bright Side of Life]

Interesting.

Just an example, but if I tend to find black guys more attractive than white guys without entirely excluding either group from being considered attractive, would you deem that as racist?

Basically, is any preference even without exclusion still racist in your opinion?

My op: No, if you don't exclude race altogether JUST based on their superficial things like looks and stereotypes, I don't think it counts. That's like saying it's food discrimination if my preference is not be too salty, I don't like eating fish, or slimy texture on food.

Look at my above post about my dating pref (and other stuff). I admitted I can be racist/sexist/ism at times but it's not 24/7/365. Nowhere did I mention I had a pref for things you can't change/hard to change ie race, height, weight

Bluntly put: Racism/sexism/ism is you don't view all races/sexes/etc as equal and judge on superficial appearances and stereotypes

 

[Ikael]

I disagree with 3 major points of the article:

- That sexuality is social rather than instinctual (which is not)

- That correlation implies causation (thinking aboug this part of the article):

This correlation strongly suggests that racial discrimination on gay dating apps can be attributed to racist attitudes and not, as so many maintain, to benign aesthetic preferences. Sexual racism, it turns out, is probably just plain old racism disguised in the language of desire.

Which bring us to my last (and strongest) point of disagreement:

- That "subconscious racism" is rooted on society rather than instinct.

I think that it is precisely the opposite. We have instinctual desires and aversions and latter we want to to build mental and social narratives around them in order to bring a rational explanation to them rather than acknowdegling their irrationality. And thus, racial narratives (and racism) is born.

It is widely proven that us humans have a tribalistic instinct embeded on which "people who look like my parents" are associated with good, whereas "people who do not" are associated with risk / repulsion. That bias appears way, way before the baby begins his socialization proccess. Hell, it appears even before you are able to speak. That isn't racism, that is in-group bias. It is just yet another misguided, outdated human instinct.

Attempting to end with it is unrealistic as hell, and its dennouncement just amount to mindless finger pointing, as it is common to every human on this blue Earth of ours. The better course of action is to just acknowdegle for what it is, and try to not overthink it (aka, rationalize it and justify it). Let me put it on a different way:

You cannot stop being afraid of the dark (instinct) but you can surely stop believing about ghosts and monsters inhabiting said darkness (social narrative built around an instinct. You cannot stop being sexually attracted or repulsed towards a certain race (instinct) but you can surely stop believing about the good or evil of said races... or the goodness of evil of the people with said preferences (social narrative built around an instinct).

 

[orioto]

I think two things should be differentiated there. The first is Cultural differences and fear of differences, that may lead to, if not racism, let's call that simply xenophobia. Which is indeed pretty common and primitive as some already said. The thing is, in society, you can judge people for having xenophobic behaviors professionally, criminally, etc.. But you can't really judge someone for who he chooses to date, nor force him to date who he doesn't want to.. so that creates a problem obviously, to judge those behaviors.

Now there is a second thing, that is also cultural, but even more primitive and not really debatable nor that you could criticize.. People are, for .. reasons.. attracted by some physics and not some others. That's the point of sexual attraction to begin with. I'm gay so i'll talk about guys but you can't tell someone who like thin noses or pale skin "you're racist" for not looking at other people. Physical attraction creates naturally all sort of discrimination, in its essence. It's how it works, you find some people more attractive than others, based on physical criterias.

As a guy attracted by asians (but not only!) i can tell you from my Caucasians friends or even Asians themselves the discrimination (let's not talk racism there) is fierce for them. Most white gay guys here find their facial features not manly enough, too smooth etc.. To the point when i tell them i love asians they are like "whaa really ? how do you do that..." and i speak about 70% of white guys, and they don't see themselves as racist by the way haha. But sexual attraction allows for that discrimination, for people.

And by the way 80% (i mean it, really, i know a lot of them) of asians in France don't have sex with asians, for the same exact reason. Call that auto racism if you will. And i think that relates to the whole debate here. If an asian man tells you, right to your face, "i don't date asians cause i don't like their physical features". How should you call that ?

 

[TanookiTom]

Sorry, but you are a textbook example of what I was talking about. Non-exposure is one of the primary causes behind racism: it causes one to make assumptions about an entire race and act based on them.

Yes, online dating is about looks. But when you untick an entire race, you aren't even looking at them. You are ignoring the enormity of different body and face types that people can have, because in your subconscious "all people of X race look the same, and its ugly".

As soon as you begin thinking about "race" and not individual physical characteristics you are being racist.

It's ironic, because you are the one making all the assumptions here ;-)
It's not about making assumptions about any race, as you are implying. It's not about having any sort of reservations of dating someone of a different skin color or ethnicity. It really is just about physical traits.

"Unticking" an entire race is stupid and superficial. But whenever you give people the option on such platforms to sort people according to any kind of features - race, height, body type or whatever - it already becomes inherently discriminatory.

Let's say you are only into blond men. And for this reason you say you filter out Asian men - does this make you a racist?

What does this mean, can you elaborate?

Uff, this should have read "beyond their picture". Sorry for this mistake, I changed it in my post. I was thinking of dating apps such as Tindr/Grindr whatever where you just have one for a few pictures and almost no additional information - so you can't really say anything about a persons character or anything going deeper than just the looks.

 

[MrRudiMentary]

I'm going to go ahead and say that not being sexually attracted to a certain race in not racist in itself but generally coincides with racism. Sexuality is never that logical in my experience and it's fine to not be attracted to men or women of a certain race, the same as how some people aren't attracted to overweight people. However to think of a race as a negative equal to being overweight*, that person may have issues with race and may be a racist.

Of course, the problem I have is people saying "I won't date X". In my opinion saying something as definitive as that is kinda generally dick move.

*Also, I'm not saying being overweight is bad, it's just there are logical reasons for it being percieved as bad, since it's in most cases linked to bad health or lifestyle. Being black is how a person is born, can't be changed without fucked up surgery and doesn't truely reflect on how a person is.

 

[M3d10n]

Interesting.

Just an example, but if I tend to find black guys more attractive than white guys without entirely excluding either group from being considered attractive, would you deem that as racist?

Basically, is any preference without exclusion also racist in your opinion?

Each person is a combination of physical characteristics. If you look at those and how they fit together and it turns you on, it doesn't matter that much if men of a particular race top your scoreboard, statistically speaking. It doesn't rule out the influence of a racial bias during the construction of the attraction model, however.

You're being racist when the race comes before anything else.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

My op: No. If you don't exclude race altogether JUST based on their superficial things like looks and stereotypes. I don't think it counts. That's like saying it's food discrimination if my preference is not be too salty or I don't like eating fish, or slimy texture on food.

Me I like long hair on guys, short on girls, am I like a harist or something?

The basis for some preferences are benign and others are more malicious. Your preference for long hair on guys may be that you saw a character with long hair in a movie you liked as a child and that stuck with you.

In regards to racial preferences, though, I don't think they often have as innocent an origin, even if the person holding those preferences isn't aware that the origin of their preferences had sunk in deep enough to condition an automatic response. Because to develop a more favorable view of one race and less favorable view of another in terms of attraction, that almost definitely requires exposure to some sort of racist propaganda. For instance, the chart on the first page shows that black women get very low response rates on dating sites. Obviously, random happenstance didn't create such a disproportionate bias: stereotypes did.

And one may say "It's just my preference" but the fact remains that you then contribute to the discrepancy.

 

[TanookiTom]

The basis for some preferences are benign and others are more malicious. Your preference for long hair on guys may be that you saw a character with long hair in a movie you liked as a child and that stuck with you.

I don't understand where you draw the line though.
So let's say someone growing up in an extremely homogenous country such as Japan. You are always surrounded by Japanese people. So in this case you don't feel attracted to Caucasians and Blacks and this makes you racist?

I think what makes you racist is excluding even the possibility or the idea of being attracted/dating people from certain groups/ethnicities/races just because they are of a different race and not because of the physical attraction you may or may not feel.

And given the example that you are racist because you are not attracted to a certain ethnicity because of a lack of exposure: What should be done in this case? Should you actively seek to date said ethnicities until you do find them attractive? How to get rid of this inherent racism then?

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

Living abroad in Asia these past 8 years, I've seen first-hand what racial preferences do to people. The sexual objectification and preferential treatment of a person, based on race, is a disgusting practice that reduces people to objects who are there solely to fulfill an exotic fantasy.

Oh, please. You not acknowledging that the women act EXACTLY THE SAME WAY towards white men makes me think you have some kind of agenda. I mean, they're even worse in some regards from what I've personally seen first-hand/

You sound bitter, to be honest. It's not ideal behavior but you can't just trash one side of the equation without admitting that it's often reinforced by the other.

 

[tkscz]

I don't understand where you draw the line though.
So let's say someone growing up in an extremely homogenous country such as Japan. You are always surrounded by Japanese people. So in this case you don't feel attracted to Caucasians and Blacks and this makes you racist?

I think what makes you racist is excluding even the possibility or the idea of being attracted/dating people from certain groups/ethnicities/races just because they are of a different race and not because of the physical attraction you may or may not feel.

And given the example that you are racist because you are not attracted to a certain ethnicity because of a lack of exposure: What should be done in this case? Should you actively seek to date said ethnicities until you do find them attractive? How to get rid of this inherent racism then?

This right here is my point.

 

[Ratrat]

Oh, please. You not acknowledging that the women act EXACTLY THE SAME WAY towards white men makes me think you have some kind of agenda. I mean, they're even worse in some regards from what I've personally seen first-hand/

You sound bitter, to be honest. It's not ideal behavior but you can't just trash one side of the equation without admitting that it's often reinforced by the other.

Well, perhaps the reasons for one side is considerably less flattering and misguided than the other? It's not like you see rich, older Asian women preying on young, poor white men, or do you? There's a huge imbalance when you consider gender and their countries economy.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I don't understand where you draw the line though.
So let's say someone growing up in an extremely homogenous country such as Japan. You are always surrounded by Japanese people. So in this case you don't feel attracted to Caucasians and Blacks and this makes you racist?

I think what makes you racist is excluding even the possibility or the idea of being attracted/dating people from certain groups/ethnicities/races just because they are of a different race and not because of the physical attraction you may or may not feel.

And given the example that you are racist because you are not attracted to a certain ethnicity because of a lack of exposure: What should be done in this case? Should you actively seek to date said ethnicities until you do find them attractive? How to get rid of this inherent racism then?

Well, Japan is an incredibly racist country with a very naive view of a lot of ethnic groups. While you can make the case that it's really not their fault because the country is so homogenous, the fact remains. (Also, they are so homogenous by their own volition, not some inviolable law of nature.)


In a nutshell, yes: I would definitely recommend making a conscious choice to be open to dating people outside your race, but as you said it's a fine line. Just as someone wouldn't like to hear that you are unlikely to date them because of their race, no one wants to get to the 3rd date and find out you're sticking around because you've never been with an Asian person before either. I think in being in new areas, though, your tastes naturally evolve.

 

[Austriacus]

I dont disagree with the premise but i really dont like when articles build an argument on a single study.

I also dont like that the guy that lead this research is kind of a "noob" when it comes to publishing and doesnt even have a pHD(his co researchers do)

 

[Bright Side of Life]

Waiting for the day we become pansexual* amorphous blobs

(Futurama ep with end story about the Miss Universe pageant--Zapp is roughly singing "there it is, miss universe, there it is looking all weird")

*to be clear being pan means any orientation or sub group like asexual, trans, genderqueer (neither he nor she but them), binary, cis, etc are fine, NOT anything goes like pedophilia, bestiality, necrophilia which is id as a fetish

 

[Prime crotch]

Well, perhaps the reasons for one side is considerably less flattering and misguided than the other? It's not like you see rich, older Asian women preying on young, poor white men, or do you? There's a huge imbalance when you consider gender and their countries economy.

Pretty sure you'll see more of it as women become more competitive in the market. Heck, german women do it with beachboyz

 

[Neo C.]

And given the example that you are racist because you are not attracted to a certain ethnicity because of a lack of exposure: What should be done in this case? Should you actively seek to date said ethnicities until you do find them attractive? How to get rid of this inherent racism then?

More exposure would be a good start. Thanks to my job I have to deal with lots of foreign people. That way, I can rid of some prejudices and some ethnicities more and more attractive. Granted, if your prejudices are already set in stone, more exposure could make it worse, but that would be you own fault.

 

[M3d10n]

I don't understand where you draw the line though.
So let's say someone growing up in an extremely homogenous country such as Japan. You are always surrounded by Japanese people. So in this case you don't feel attracted to Caucasians and Blacks and this makes you racist?

I think what makes you racist is excluding even the possibility or the idea of being attracted/dating people from certain groups/ethnicities/races just because they are of a different race and not because of the physical attraction you may or may not feel.

And given the example that you are racist because you are not attracted to a certain ethnicity because of a lack of exposure: What should be done in this case? Should you actively seek to date said ethnicities until you do find them attractive? How to get rid of this inherent racism then?

You're assuming that dating within ones own race is the natural default and that people need to learn to be attracted to people different than them, when that too can have societal origin.

In the example of Japanese society: it's very homogeneous indeed, but there is also a culture of looking down at dating foreigners that is pervasive. Many people will ingrain this growing up and will find foreigners unattractive later on.

When the Portuguese colonized Brazil they fucked everything in sight which resulted in a wide range of mixed race people.

There's also the "exotic fetish" phenomena. A different race will be deemed attractive if it's assumed to bring benefits. I remember research on this, the theory being a tendency towards genetic diversity.