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Shadow of War Loot Boxes Can Be Disabled by Declining ToS

Mar 8, 2016
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I searched and didn't see any thread about this but apparently you can rid your game of any loot box prompts (or inclusion) by simply declining the online terms of service for the game.
It also removes the "multiplayer raiding feature" whatever that is, until you accept them.

More here.

*Claim me as your orc minion if old*
 
Jul 25, 2014
2,201
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Does it rebalance the game in their absence? If not then it doesn't really address the issue.

Was the game really balanced for the loot boxes? Outside of the "true ending", it seems like a Deus Ex Mankind Divided scenario where it was just shoved in there. There are some loot box exclusives but I don't know if they intended for people to really use them. Not defending any of this at all, just wondering whether the game is a pain in the ass to play without coughing up some extra cash.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Dec 9, 2013
10,946
4,494
750
It always amazes me that simply hiding something is considered a solution to a problem for many people. The economy in the game doesn't change, the progression rate is still the same.
 
Mar 8, 2016
597
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It always amazes me that simply hiding something is considered a solution to a problem for many people. The economy in the game doesn't change, the progression rate is still the same.

I don’t consider it a solution. I was simply surprised they could just be disabled like that.
 

Xandremi

Member
Nov 19, 2016
248
0
0
Was the game really balanced for the loot boxes? Outside of the "true ending", it seems like a Deus Ex Mankind Divided scenario where it was just shoved in there. There are some loot box exclusives but I don't know if they intended for people to really use them. Not defending any of this at all, just wondering.

From watching Dansgaming on twitch and his thoughts of the game so far(15-20hours) yes it's a much more grindy game than the first. Day 2 of his play through he has felt the need to buy lootboxes. This is on the hardest difficulty btw, it's how he play it on the first game also.
 

Majin Boo

Member
Nov 17, 2013
264
0
0
Was the game really balanced for the loot boxes? Outside of the "true ending", it seems like a Deus Ex Mankind Divided scenario where it was just shoved in there. There are some loot box exclusives but I don't know if they intended for people to really use them.

We will probably never know how the drop rates etc. would have been if the loot boxes weren't there. But it's highly unlikely that a publisher goes through the effort (and the negative press) to implement loot boxes without somehow encouraging people to buy them.
 

mindsale

Member
May 18, 2013
2,643
0
0
Loot boxes are so plentiful it's absurd. Just disenchant your shitty weapons, you'll have thousands upon thousands of silver to buy orc boxes and weapon boxes.
 

Zepp Twofist

Member
Aug 14, 2015
2,706
1
325
The fact that you have to decline the license agreement every time you hit the main menu is a pain in the ass. Especially considering that in addition to the loot boxes, the agreement asks to harvest data from you to do target advertising.
 

Garrett Hawke

Member
Jan 24, 2014
24,343
1
430
It always amazes me that simply hiding something is considered a solution to a problem for many people. The economy in the game doesn't change, the progression rate is still the same.
Games have had grind-y progression loops for decades and nobody cared until companies let you pay to skip it.

There are sooo many PS2 RPGs which are grind central yet among the best games of all time.
 

ckaneo

Member
Oct 10, 2016
1,789
1
230
Games have had grind-y progression loops for decades and nobody cared until companies let you pay to skip it.

There are sooo many PS2 RPGs which are grind central yet among the best games of all time.

True, but those grinds were for artificial length as opposed to trying to get our money
 

wesleyshark

Banned
Jun 7, 2014
15,217
0
0
Pittsburgh, PA
Loot boxes are so plentiful it's absurd. Just disenchant your shitty weapons, you'll have thousands upon thousands of silver to buy orc boxes and weapon boxes.
Yep. Microtransactions in SoW are just an even quicker way to get more of what you're already getting showered in by playing the game.
 

ckaneo

Member
Oct 10, 2016
1,789
1
230
Whats funny is how all of a sudden every publisher decided they needed loot boxes regardless of what type of game.

I feel bad for developers, cause we know they not pushing for this shit
 

Foffy

Banned
May 14, 2009
22,563
2
0
Would mods to work around the loot boxes count as piracy?

Jeez, this dumb concept in a $60 game compromises and confuses so much!
 

Maximo

Member
Jun 23, 2014
8,078
0
0
Would mods to work around the loot boxes count as piracy?

Jeez, this dumb concept in a $60 game pcompromises and confuses so much!

Denuvo often cripples this makes it hard to do modding even if it's cracked.

Games have had grind-y progression loops for decades and nobody cared until companies let you pay to skip it.

There are sooo many PS2 RPGs which are grind central yet among the best games of all time.

Games have changed and evolved since then, especially development and publisher influence.
 

Hektor

Member
Mar 10, 2015
11,285
0
425
O
steamcommunity.com
Would mods to work around the loot boxes count as piracy?

Jeez, this dumb concept in a $60 game compromises and confuses so much!

You buy them for normal in-game money earned through playing while buying them for real money is "totally optional".

If that is really just an option and the in-game currency droprate hasn't been designed with lootboxes in mind, there should be no issues with cheating yourself more in-game currency to buy further lootboxes. 🤗

Unless of course Warner has measures in place to prevent that from happening 🤔 which would be very dubious if real money transactions are supposedly just optional

Anybody checked if its possible?
 

Foffy

Banned
May 14, 2009
22,563
2
0
Denuvo often cripples this makes it hard to do modding even if it's cracked.

I may be wrong here, but can't games with busted Denuvo use trainers?

I mean, to circumvent Denuvo from a hacking view, aren't you using altered exes?
 

Lucifon

Junior Member
Jun 29, 2012
5,605
2
0
UK
www.twitch.tv
It always amazes me that simply hiding something is considered a solution to a problem for many people. The economy in the game doesn't change, the progression rate is still the same.
Right but in this case the progression rate is to constantly give a tonne of currency and loot. It doesn't feel like a game that's had things artificially slowed to encourage payment at all - something I truly hate about most loot box systems. It just feels like a system that was thrown in on top of an existing game / economy.
 

NullPointer

Member
May 4, 2006
44,304
3
0
San Francisco
Right but in this case the progression rate is to constantly give a tonne of currency and loot. It doesn't feel like a game that's had things artificially slowed to encourage payment at all - something I truly hate about most loot box systems. It just feels like a system that was thrown in on top of an existing game / economy.
Have you played Act 4? All of the complaints about the game's grind were in relation to the final Shadow War section and what is needed to reach the true ending.
 

Steroyd

Member
Dec 27, 2006
25,915
0
0
England
Games have had grind-y progression loops for decades and nobody cared until companies let you pay to skip it.

There are sooo many PS2 RPGs which are grind central yet among the best games of all time.

But normally those RPG's have a clear progressive path to maximising levels and stats (kill enemy x to obtain equipment y which lets you stand a chance in dungeon z, to obtain more equipment y's at an increased rate), and it's not like there were games which were criticised for such stuff like Zelda Wind Waker as an example.
 

OriginalPoe

Banned
Jan 14, 2016
1,233
0
0
You buy them for normal in-game money earned through playing while buying them for real money is "totally optional".

If that is really just an option and the in-game currency droprate hasn't been designed with lootboxes in mind, there should be no issues with cheating yourself more in-game currency to buy further lootboxes. 🤗

Unless of course Warner has measures in place to prevent that from happening 🤔 which would be very dubious if real money transactions are supposedly just optional

Anybody checked if its possible?

You can give yourself infinite Mirian on PC.
 

Yukinari

Member
May 11, 2015
4,440
0
0
I may be wrong here, but can't games with busted Denuvo use trainers?

I mean, to circumvent Denuvo from a hacking view, aren't you using altered exes?

Its crazy to think we got to the point where we even have to find ways to not only crack Denuvo but also figure out how to circumvent loot boxes. In single player games.

I wont be playing this game regardless.
 

Santar

Member
Aug 19, 2010
2,410
0
0
Norway
Unless this actually adds in the online loot box exclusive training and reassignment orders to the offline game (which I'm pretty sure it doesn't) it's basically just hiding the loot box aspect without actually fixing the issue.
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
Games have had grind-y progression loops for decades and nobody cared until companies let you pay to skip it.

There are sooo many PS2 RPGs which are grind central yet among the best games of all time.

I beg to differ. With games getting larger and containing more loot that's subjected to RNG and more ingame systems than before, gaming has never been this grindy when compared to the PS2 era.
 

Lucifon

Junior Member
Jun 29, 2012
5,605
2
0
UK
www.twitch.tv
Have you played Act 4? All of the complaints about the game's grind were in relation to the final Shadow War section and what is needed to reach the true ending.

Plenty of games have absolutely massive grinds for their 'true' ending - particularly open world games. That's kind of the whole point of why developers add it. This isn't something new to games with loot boxes.
 

The Boat

Member
Sep 22, 2010
9,854
1
615
I highly doubt that this game or most others including loot boxes or micro transactions are designed and balanced the same way as they would be if these things weren't even in the equation.
 

nynt9

Member
Jun 7, 2013
10,858
2
620
From watching Dansgaming on twitch and his thoughts of the game so far(15-20hours) yes it's a much more grindy game than the first. Day 2 of his play through he has felt the need to buy lootboxes. This is on the hardest difficulty btw, it's how he play it on the first game also.

The first game didn't have difficulty levels, so this is clearly a disingenuous comparison.

I wish people who has no idea how the game worked would stop talking about it. On normal difficulty the game is no different than its predecessor in terms of pacing.
 

ViviOggi

Member
Feb 22, 2013
10,886
0
0
Games have had grind-y progression loops for decades and nobody cared until companies let you pay to skip it.

There are sooo many PS2 RPGs which are grind central yet among the best games of all time.
Uhh yes there's always been people who cared about unnecessary padding in games
 

ElfArmy177

Member
Jun 12, 2010
1,915
1
715
It always amazes me that simply hiding something is considered a solution to a problem for many people. The economy in the game doesn't change, the progression rate is still the same.

It amazes me how upset people get over a feature they don't have to use in order to finish a game
 

BT-727

Neo Member
Apr 18, 2017
36
0
0
I searched and didn't see any thread about this but apparently you can rid your game of any loot box prompts (or inclusion) by simply declining the online terms of service for the game.
It also removes the "multiplayer raiding feature" whatever that is, until you accept them.

More here.

*Claim me as your orc minion if old*

Yep. You can still get updates for the game though. Did a guide about this on review embargo day.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 13, 2013
9,880
0
0
Games have had grind-y progression loops for decades and nobody cared until companies let you pay to skip it.

There are sooo many PS2 RPGs which are grind central yet among the best games of all time.

There's a huge difference between a grind that the developer themselves feel is best for the game, and a grind that publishers feel is the best for their stock price.
 

Sky87

Member
Nov 27, 2015
513
13
300
The first game didn't have difficulty levels, so this is clearly a disingenuous comparison.

I wish people who has no idea how the game worked would stop talking about it. On normal difficulty the game is no different than its predecessor in terms of pacing.

Indeed. I've watched some of his Mordor streams and he (perhaps jokingly) complains that he needs to buy loot boxes just because he got destroyed by a captain. Makes no sense to me as buying loot boxes doesn't make it easier to defeat captains that are overleveled or simply has a bad combo of invulnerabilities/vulnerabilities.

Of course the Twitch chat is as toxic as ever and brings up loot box memes every 5 mins. People need to learn to actually play the game themselves instead of jumping to herd mentality conclusions.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Dec 14, 2013
26,821
1
570
From watching Dansgaming on twitch and his thoughts of the game so far(15-20hours) yes it's a much more grindy game than the first. Day 2 of his play through he has felt the need to buy lootboxes. This is on the hardest difficulty btw, it's how he play it on the first game also.

dude got a special exclusive edition of Shadow of Mordor that has difficulty settings? That's quite interesting.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
23,613
2
1,130
There's a huge difference between a grind that the developer themselves feel is best for the game, and a grind that publishers feel is the best for their stock price.
Are there any examples were it can sort of be proven that grinding has increased a lot because of this? Then i'm thinking of "traditional games", not mobile games.
 

Foffy

Banned
May 14, 2009
22,563
2
0
Its crazy to think we got to the point where we even have to find ways to not only crack Denuvo but also figure out how to circumvent loot boxes. In single player games.

I wont be playing this game regardless.

It's always online, too.

Then again, that didn't stop MGSV hacking with FOB materials.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Dec 14, 2013
26,821
1
570
True, but those grinds were for artificial length as opposed to trying to get our money
No, they also were to mostly get your money, make you take longer to finish games and prevent you from trading it in.
There's a huge difference between a grind that the developer themselves feel is best for the game, and a grind that publishers feel is the best for their stock price.

Grinds have been for "best for their stock price" even before microtransactions or even DLC was a thing. Grinds have been there for stock price for decades.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 13, 2013
9,880
0
0
Are there any examples were it can sort of be proven that grinding has increased a lot because of this? Then i'm thinking of "traditional games", not mobile games.

Obviously developers aren't going to come out and admit it. I will also admit that i dont play a ton of multiplayer, but i think it was pretty obvious that Destiny's grind was pretty artificial. I remember talking to my buddies about it, i remember being baffled by the games designs because the progression was slow like a F2P game but it didnt any microtransactions in it at the time, i chalked it up to Bungie not knowing how to make an RPG.

About a year later they put the $30 booster packs in them, the they put in the dancing emotes, then they made shaders consumable. Danny O'Dwyer made a video at gamespot and said they hired a mental health professional to help them design this. Everything makes alot more sense now.

Also keep in mind that this process isnt going to happen overnight. The #1 priority for Shadow of War's lootboxes isnt to make money, its to normalize lootboxes and microtransactions in that kind of game. They can slowly raise the grind over the course of 5-10 years until we reach a full blown F2P economies in premium games, and by that time it will be too late to complain about it because "this has been around for years, why are you complaining now?"

We need to shut this shit down now because it will get alot worse.
 

Ridley327

Member
Feb 7, 2005
37,712
0
1,480
No, they also were to mostly get your money, make you take longer to finish games and prevent you from trading it in.


Grinds have been for "best for their stock price" even before microtransactions or even DLC was a thing. Grinds have been there for stock price for decades.

I'm not sure how making a game take longer to beat discourages trade-ins. If anything, it's a straight up encouragement, especially with the knowledge of how relatively low game completion percentages are from trophy/achievement data.

Not only that, but they already got your money at the time of purchase, so for a game that doesn't feature any other means to generate more money from a player, there's nothing additional to gain from that player in terms of revenue.
 

shimon

Member
May 12, 2017
842
0
240
I can also not buy the game.

 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
23,613
2
1,130
Obviously developers aren't going to come out and admit it. I will also admit that i dont play a ton of multiplayer, but i think it was pretty obvious that Destiny's grind was pretty artificial. I remember talking to my buddies about it, i remember being baffled by the games designs because the progression was slow like a F2P game but it didnt any microtransactions in it at the time, i chalked it up to Bungie not knowing how to make an RPG.

About a year later they put the $30 booster packs in them, the they put in the dancing emotes, then they made shaders consumable. Danny O'Dwyer made a video at gamespot and said they hired a mental health professional to help them design this. Everything makes alot more sense now.

Also keep in mind that this process isnt going to happen overnight. The #1 priority for Shadow of War's lootboxes isnt to make money, its to normalize lootboxes and microtransactions in that kind of game. They can slowly raise the grind over the course of 5-10 years until we reach a full blown F2P economies in premium games, and by that time it will be too late to complain about it because "this has been around for years, why are you complaining now?"

We need to shut this shit down now because it will get alot worse.
Sure, but there should be possible to point at something that kinda proves it, no? For example, if a previous game took i.e 100 hours to max out the levels, then the sequel takes 200 hours instead. Something like that.

How can we distinguish between the two things? I mean, its not like games requiring gridning is something completely new, so how can we tell that the grinding is added there to sell microtransactions or to make the game last longer? (It can also be a case where both things apply of course).

I doubt that we're looking at $60 games in 10 years that are like F2P games are today, where you have to wait maybe 15-20 minutes to replenish lives and stuff like that, or where you cant progress unless you grind for several of days.

All lootboxes arent bad either. I've been playing Uncharted 4 online for over a year now, and one reason for that is the lootboxes. Its something to work towards, unlocking stuff. Naughty Dog has a system where you cant get any duplicates, so every unlock is unique.