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Shexy Shelob (The Jimquisition)

Even the music is about spiders... From Mars.

I think spiders are cool and would have liked talking to a giant spider. They could have made it cool and creepy. Instead we basically get Angelina Jolie from that bad Beowulf movie.
 
Kissenkopf said:
Tbh it seems like no one cares and Jim makes more out of it then there really is.
Except it also sends a message to Tolkien fans to stay the hell away from their games. I mean creative licenses are fine and all - but they are undermining their own IP here in addition to all of Jim's complaints.
 
That is hilariously stupid. (Shelob as the human female, not the video)

Edit: My mom loves Lord of the Rings, I think I will send her a picture and ask her if she can guess what Lord of the Rings character this is.
 
This game really doing it's best to do the wrong thing every step of the way, ain't it?

I mean I'm fine with character like Cammy or Lara Croft looking sexy or wearing revealing outfits, they have a history of doing so and I don't have a problem with sexy ladies being a thing in games. But there's absolutely no reason that fucking every female character needs to be sexy and show cleavage. Especially not when it's a giant monster spider that have never before been portrayed as having a human form.

An excellent TL;DR to back up Jim's video, and my take as well. It's that "defaultness" that help throws the whole shebang off the rails.

Except it also sends a message to Tolkien fans to stay the hell away from their games. I mean creative licenses are fine and all - but they are undermining their own IP here in addition to all of Jim's complaints.

You could see this go over the event horizon with the Hobbit movies.
 
Eh. I'm not particularly upset by this. It's stupid, but the first one (which I really enjoyed) was essentially a stupid super violent dudebro power fantasy that was really at odds with the Lord of the Rings stories in general. So seeing stuff like this isn't really surprising.

I'm much more pissed about the Loot Boxes than this,
 
Guess it hard to be constantly outraged every week... Shits been on a down ward spiral for a while now.
What makes me do an El Oh El here is this is subject matter I've not tackled in years - back when some would say I was on a huge roll.

Sorry it's not outrageous enough for ya (I tried to make it clear this was more a discussion on design that I found disappointing, rather than something I'm "outraged" about), but I was immensely pleased with how this one turned out and it felt good to tackle some of the old style JimQ subjects so I respectfully disagree and feel pretty much better than ever on the video front. <3
 
I'm sure others will cover the female representation angle better than me, but the other issue I have with the 'I'll take the form you're most comfortable with' idea is that it removes the primal fear of dealing with a huge monster than is sentient, highly intelligent and could easily either step on you or eat you just on a whim. Imagine if Smaug was a slim bloke with red hair and a deep voice, or the Balrog a tough looking chap with a flaming sword. Suddenly the whole power dynamic shifts as, while you still would have zero chance against them in hand-to-hand combat, that fear has been removed, they seem more beatable, their movement limited, their abilities and sheer bulk limited, their intelligence less alien. You're less like prey, less insignificant in proportion. To humanise such monsters removes primal fear and makes the player feel more powerful and less like food in contrast, which isn't always a good thing when the reason Shelob (and Smaug, and the Balrog) are so terrifying is that very primal fear of something so predatory, intelligent, ancient and powerful that even Sauron can't give it orders. Putting such creations on a friendly, conversational level with the player just removes a whole level of threat from the setting.
 
I thought "sexy Shelob" was a meme of sorts, that thry made a really sleek and shiny looking spider. Like a black widow. But what we got was a different kind of Black Widow.

It's such a missed opportunity. Not many games have massive, scary arachnids to interact with.
 
I'm sure others will cover the female representation angle better than me, but the other issue I have with the 'I'll take the form you're most comfortable with' idea is that it removes the primal fear of dealing with a huge monster than is sentient, highly intelligent and could easily either step on you or eat you just on a whim. Imagine if Smaug was a slim bloke with red hair and a deep voice, or the Balrog a tough looking chap with a flaming sword. Suddenly the whole power dynamic shifts as, while you still would have zero chance against them in hand-to-hand combat, that fear has been removed, they seem more beatable, their movement limited, their abilities and sheer bulk limited, their intelligence less alien. You're less like prey, less insignificant in proportion. To humanise such monsters removes primal fear and makes the player feel more powerful and less like food in contrast, which isn't always a good thing.
All of this too. Shelob is practically eldritch. Making her "relatable" in the most defanged way possible is a total undermine.

Also to the "nobody cares" comments. I care. That's why the show's named after me. :-)
 
I thought "sexy Shelob" was a meme of sorts, that thry made a really sleek and shiny looking spider. Like a black widow. But what we got was a different kind of Black Widow.

It's such a missed opportunity. Not many games have massive, scary arachnids to interact with.

Or ones that are more then just mindless monsters.
 
The "we can give it tits, we have the technology" approach is reminiscent of Dante's Inferno (the game), another high water mark of character design and thoughtfulness.

I don't care much about revisionism and dudebroing Tolkien, but this is some hilariously transparent pandering.
 
They could've gone the weeb route and made her something like Rachnera, but a lot of idiots would get all in a huff about "animu trash in muh py00r Western power fantasy".
 
I get it, I still watch his stuff and I really think some of its great (loved that fancy lad bit he has done a few times). Just some of these topics are weak as hell, its that or just pulling out the same steam trash again so he can show the same clips over and over and over. Hard to even tell those eps apart any more.


Seems like the Crones in the Witcher 3 are everything he wanted Shelob to be, that's not even that old of a game. Doesn't even mention it.

Something newsworthy can't happen each week, keeping the pressure on a continuing issue has value. He's one guy not a whole studio, get some perspective.
 
All of this too. Shelob is practically eldritch. Making her "relatable" in the most defanged way possible is a total undermine.
It's a bit like playing Call of Cthulhu but having one of the lesser powers like Dagon (who would normally still cause a party wipe/mass sanity loss if the players are dumb enough to summon him) in your corner, telling you what's going on in a friendly manner. It won't save you from Azathoth but suddenly it's changed the whole nature of the setting and the major disadvantage the players have of the battles and timescales between higher powers being incomprehensible, of having no allies of any strength, of being suitably terrified of anything that doesn't die from a gunshot wound.
 
They could've gone the weeb route and made her something like Rachnera, but a lot of idiots would get all in a huff about "animu trash in muh py00r Western power fantasy".

That's what I pictured when I first heard about Sexy Shelob, not sure if what we got is better or worse.
 
Sexy Shelob is seriously one of the most mindboggling decisions I've ever een in a game. I don't get why any of that was necessary.

I get it, I still watch his stuff and I really think some of its great (loved that fancy lad bit he has done a few times). Just some of these topics are weak as hell, its that or just pulling out the same steam trash again so he can show the same clips over and over and over. Hard to even tell those eps apart any more.


Seems like the Crones in the Witcher 3 are everything he wanted Shelob to be, that's not even that old of a game. Doesn't even mention it.

I think his point was that protagonists/helpful female characters aren't allowed to be ugly. The Crones are antagonists to the story and the stereotype evil witch. I am surprised though that he didn't mention Kreia from KotOR 2. She fits pretty much all his demands, but maybe he hasn't played that game.
 
the fear from arachnophobia just makes me harder

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Man, the comments on the video are so stupid. You can tell most of those people don't have a love for Tolkein, because this design change is basically shitting on part of his work. She was purposefully created to be an inhuman, terrifying, destructive creature. Turning her into a hot babe undermines all of those aspects of her character. I mean, the fact that you even have to explain why turning one of the most famous monsters from fantasy literature into a sexy lady is bad is just....hopeless.
 
I didn't know until now. Thanks, Jim. It's more upsetting than it should be that I'm not conspiring with an giant fucking spider. I was wondering how that would go down in the game, but I guess turning Shelob into a babe didn't cross my mind. It should have.
 
oh, I thought from the headlines of this that she is like, half sexy women half spider, but no, they straight up made her change into a sexy dark haired girl in a tight dress.

Thats just lazy I think.
 
I didn't know until now. Thanks, Jim. It's more upsetting than it should be that I'm not conspiring with an giant fucking spider. I was wondering how that would go down in the game, but I guess turning Shelob into a babe didn't cross my mind. It should have.
I'd totally conspire with a giant spider. I'd have all those orcs and ringwraiths and wargs webbed up, plated up and ready for dinner like I was prepping food for Masterchef as long as I wasn't on the menu, at least for today. :D
 
I prefer all of my insectoid human fantasy characters to conform rigidly to the fitness ideals of humans.

Eight muscular legs.
 
Sexy Shelob is dumb because Shelob is just a giant spider. I don't know a whole lot about the extended LOTR lore but is it possible it might be a disguise or illusion from Ungoloiant

Spider girls on the other hand are extremely good
 
Can't watch the video right now but...why is Shelob a sexy lady in this
because video games are a mistake
Or ones that are more then just mindless monsters.
yeah, it's so damn boring that anything monsterlike is either mindless and/or wants you gone. It's tired, it's lame, AAA has gotten a tad more gutsy, but seriously needs some more guts and to get wild or I'm out
 
Except it also sends a message to Tolkien fans to stay the hell away from their games. I mean creative licenses are fine and all - but they are undermining their own IP here in addition to all of Jim's complaints.

Pretty sure the game will do fine without the small amount of angry Tolkien fans.
 
Those video comments are rich.
"Why should we care? Women don't play games! We need sexy women in games because it's supposed to appeal to men! You can't market a giant spider lady! How else will those poor multimillion dollar companies sell their games without sex appeal?"
 
Those video comments are rich.
"Why should we care? Women don't play games! We need sexy women in games because it's supposed to appeal to men! You can't market a giant spider lady! How else will those poor multimillion dollar companies sell their games without sex appeal?"

To those that say that: why do you think they don't?
 
Rellik said:
Pretty sure the game will do fine without the small amount of angry Tolkien fans.
If that was certain, one wonders why they use the IP in the first place. The game would likely be better off without the constraints too.
 
Does somebody know if theres already information out how big the drop chance for the Even Sexier Shelob costume in loot boxes is?
 
To those that say that: why do you think they don't?

I never understood much of this argument.
Do sexy women repel women?

Or is it the oversexualized man pandering that some females are ingame? (Which is a different problem)

Because my girlfriend prefers her woman characters to be good looking and sexy. (anecdotal evidence)
Like I prefer my male characters to be good looking.
Sexy and good looks sell, across the board.

I find the Sexy Shelob stupid for many reasons, it was uneeded by the way.
 
I'm split on this. I definitely think it's dumb but I can't decide if it's out of character. In Tolkien lore, isn't Shelob the spawn of Ungoliant (which is left unexplained as some sort of cosmic horror entity)?



Probably not the thread for this but I'll use any opportunity to talk about Tolkien lore.
I support a thread on this. Tolkien lore is great fun. I know so little about it but love it all
 
I'm split on this. I definitely think it's dumb but I can't decide if it's out of character. In Tolkien lore, isn't Shelob the spawn of Ungoliant (which is left unexplained as some sort of cosmic horror entity)?



Probably not the thread for this but I'll use any opportunity to talk about Tolkien lore.

I don't remember any hints that Ungoliant could change forms. Also I somehow has the impression she was a mistaken creation by Eru.

I could be wrong about both, I am no Tolkien scholar.
 
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