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[makingmusic476]

Eh, figure out a better way to handle content we purchase through the store before trying to "add value" and shit.

My biggest issue with Nintendo's online implementation primarily revolves around the way they handle ownership of downloaded content. The inability to transfer anything I buy through the VC, WiiWare, or DSiWare when switching consoles is a pain, and it ensures I won't be switching to a black Wii or anything of the sort anytime soon.

Bringing a unified ID structure to the Wii would solve not only the serious issue of retaining ownership of your games long after you lose ownership of the original hardware they were purchased on (through linking any purchased content to said ID), but it would also make interacting with your friends online far easier.

As for the subject of any fees associated with online play, paying for the entire service is not a good idea. Paying for "some extra value" in addition to online play is something I wouldn't mind, however, given I would only buy the added (and presumably unnecessary) features if I felt the value was worth it.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Bububu the Ninth Circle, Segata!

I might love Nintendo as much as I loves Sega... errr... loved Sega, but I'm with him. Nintendo would have to emulate the featureset of XBL before I'd even entertain the idea of paying for anything. And playing the basic game would have to remain free.

Especially if they're going to go the cheap MS way and make it p2p.

I won't pay for XBL either.

I do most of my online gaming on the PC. Where God intended. Mario Kart online is fun though.

 

[ZeoVGM]

XBL is fantastic and completely worth the price.

So Nintendo would need to make their online "service" not suck ass if they were to charge.

 

[Facism]

Actually most games have online components now. This isn't 2003.

It isn't 1985 either, but people love p2p.

 

[Baki]

Let's be honest here... a gaming network isn't free. MS has thousands of servers in centers around the world that are manned 24/7. It is a huge cost. MS was smart enough to build a strategy to recoup those costs.

Nintendo and Sony are surely feeling the financial sting. Each time they want to add more features to their gaming network it costs money to both develop and maintain.

If you (as consumers) want more functionality from Nintendo and Sony, you are going to also have to expect to pay a service fee at some point.

I'm not saying MS's model is the best way to go, but somehow Nintendo and Sony need to see revenue generated for their gaming network costs outside of the fee they receive from publishers.

Not really. The only servers MS need are the ones that contain the gamertag information/demos etc.. which is not a lot. Especially considering they get revenue from XBL GOLD, and XBL Arcade games.

I mean if Steam and PSN can do free online, so can MS.

XBL is fantastic and completely worth the price.

So Nintendo would need to make their online "service" not suck ass if they were to charge.

But this is why we'll never get free online multiplayer from MS.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

It isn't 1985 either, but people love p2p.

*giggle*

XBL is fantastic and completely worth the price.

So Nintendo would need to make their online "service" not suck ass if they were to charge.

The only time it was worth the price was when MS was giving it to me free!

 

[the thoroughbred]

The biggest problem is that there are no standardized friend lists across games.
Nintendo's online would be much better if we had :

standard friends lists (even with friend codes as long as yo uonly had to input them once)
Voice chat for all online games (even if you could only communicate with friends)
Demos and a better store
online leaderboards for all games with score components
account based purchase tracking

That is it.
That would make the online experience cohesive and pleasant.

Well the problem with having a standardised friends code list is there will undoubtedly be more than one user on any one Wii, and having access to contacts they otherwise shouldn't. Making the codes redundant in censorship. The only option I have come up with is to make user accounts, but this adds unnecessary complication. Instead just make contact groups like in any other contacts list that we already have on phones and computers etc. So I can make a friends code list and title it "thethoroughbred's list", and my sister can have one titled "Sister's list". And we can make quite a few, say 50 lists. Obviously we can choose to have them password protected. So my younger brother as he logs onto MHTri, and chooses online, the game reads all the friend code lists on the Wii, and allows him to choose one. My one will be password protected so he can't be susceptible to the onslaught of vulgarities and verbal abuse from my barbaric contemporaries.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

Give me an online service similar to XBox Live, slap a price tag on it, and sign me up.

I'd happily pay a fee if it meant dedicated servers, online play in nearly every game, and proper voice support with actual headsets.

Christ, I'd pay just for the prospect of playing Virtual Console games online.

 

[Wazzim]

Seeing the structure of nintendo's online network now, please make it like Live and charge for it (with thigs like: Nintendo TV ). Everybody is going pay to play nowadays, the server costs are too high.

 

[charlequin]

The only option I have come up with is to make user accounts, but this adds unnecessary complication.

Most people understand the concept of an account and a sign-in since they've probably, like, used the internet once or twice. (People who haven't are the customers who are going to use the bare minimum of Wii features -- i.e. disc-based games and nothing else -- anyway, so as long as they can use those without going online it doesn't matter.)

This is like the easiest problem ever for Nintendo to solve. When you set up the Super Wii for the first time, it prompts you to make Miis for everyone who lives in your house. When you go online, it just asks you "who's doing this?" and you pick a Mii out of the list. If you haven't been online before, it gets you to fill out your account info, and saves your account name and Mii to the server. Nintendo's visual metaphor is already perfect to use this way.

 

[Vinci]

Most people understand the concept of an account and a sign-in since they've probably, like, used the internet once or twice. (People who haven't are the customers who are going to use the bare minimum of Wii features -- i.e. disc-based games and nothing else -- anyway, so as long as they can use those without going online it doesn't matter.)

This is like the easiest problem ever for Nintendo to solve. When you set up the Super Wii for the first time, it prompts you to make Miis for everyone who lives in your house. When you go online, it just asks you "who's doing this?" and you pick a Mii out of the list. If you haven't been online before, it gets you to fill out your account info, and saves your account name and Mii to the server. Nintendo's visual metaphor is already perfect to use this way.

That's really what I've wanted from the beginning and never understood why Nintendo didn't leverage the Miis more deliberately through the operation of the console.

 

[charlequin]

That's really what I've wanted from the beginning and never understood why Nintendo didn't leverage the Miis more deliberately through the operation of the console.

Weren't Miis a (relatively) late addition to the system? IIRC, the Wiimote and TV channel paradigm were established well before the idea of Miis was invented.

By using the Mii as the basis for an account system I think Nintendo has a lot of room to create a relatively friendly interface that handles the things a modern home console system should support (distinct per-user settings, profile-divided saves, distinct online personae) using a metaphor that's easy to understand and that's constantly supporting the brand -- every time

Of course, if they go this way, I think they really need to make the Mii API easier to use, more powerful, and less restrictive -- they'd want every game to use Miis at least a little (as pictures on your save files or in online gaming lobbies, that sort of thing) and probably want more games overall to incorporate them in a significant way (like letting you play as them.)

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Most people understand the concept of an account and a sign-in since they've probably, like, used the internet once or twice. (People who haven't are the customers who are going to use the bare minimum of Wii features -- i.e. disc-based games and nothing else -- anyway, so as long as they can use those without going online it doesn't matter.)

This is like the easiest problem ever for Nintendo to solve. When you set up the Super Wii for the first time, it prompts you to make Miis for everyone who lives in your house. When you go online, it just asks you "who's doing this?" and you pick a Mii out of the list. If you haven't been online before, it gets you to fill out your account info, and saves your account name and Mii to the server. Nintendo's visual metaphor is already perfect to use this way.

The only thing left would be to attach a unique identifier (so people can friend each other online and do Mii recovery) and then attach each Mii to an email address for account recovery.

The subscription question is a bit harder for Nintendo given that they have some expectation that the system would be used by a family. Subscriptions for individuals would be very tough on multi-user systems. Subscriptions per system would be hard on houses that have two systems or on people who buy a new system instead of repairing with the manufacturer. The third option that comes to mind is a parent account with sub account - allow the parent account to be tied to two or three systems (require a call to Nintendo for number 3) and allow any account to guest on a different Wii for up to X simultaneous instances.

There is a fallacy in my presumption. I'm presuming that a Nintendo online system would be in the mold of XBOX Live Gold. What if we decouple base features like online matchmaking and the basic things needed for online gaming from the subscription? Leave the subscription to more premium features like HD Netflix, cross-game chat, and social services like twitter or facebook integration. Maybe do some subscription only games that are hosted by Nintendo and have heavy social features. Think 1 vs 100 type games.

I don't think that there is any *perfect* solution, but I think that they might come up with something better than Microsoft's lone gamer setup.

 

[charlequin]

The only thing left would be to attach a unique identifier (so people can friend each other online and do Mii recovery) and then attach each Mii to an email address for account recovery.

Yep.

What if we decouple base features like online matchmaking and the basic things needed for online gaming from the subscription?

This is basically what Nintendo would have to do if they actually wanted to charge a subscription for anything, IMO. Charging for online play specifically is really only viable on 360 because MS built a userbase almost entirely around online play right from the start. If Nintendo tried it, even with a drastically improved system, I think the result would mostly be to discourage people from playing things online rather than to bring in a lot of extra revenue.

 

[Vinci]

Weren't Miis a (relatively) late addition to the system? IIRC, the Wiimote and TV channel paradigm were established well before the idea of Miis was invented.

I've no idea, truthfully, if the Miis were a late addition or not.

By using the Mii as the basis for an account system I think Nintendo has a lot of room to create a relatively friendly interface that handles the things a modern home console system should support (distinct per-user settings, profile-divided saves, distinct online personae) using a metaphor that's easy to understand and that's constantly supporting the brand -- every time

Of course, if they go this way, I think they really need to make the Mii API easier to use, more powerful, and less restrictive -- they'd want every game to use Miis at least a little (as pictures on your save files or in online gaming lobbies, that sort of thing) and probably want more games overall to incorporate them in a significant way (like letting you play as them.)

Absolutely. I'd imagine Nintendo's restrictive use of Miis this generation has been as a means of protecting them, something similar to the restrictions they used with the NES regarding 3rd parties that later got them into trouble. They may have felt opening up Mii usage would have weakened them in some fashion by being attached to questionable software.

In the end, that's just a guess - I wanted the Miis to be used all over the place this gen and feel it's something Nintendo never really utilized effectively.

 

[JWong]

Pay to play half the game.

Spoiler

In Left 4 Dead's case, all of it.

 

[HK-47]

Pay to play half the game.

Spoiler

In Left 4 Dead's case, all of it.

Only cause you got it on the wrong system.

 

[Ranger X]

Xbox Live is not worth paying for. You can better damn be sure Nintendo service wouldn't be either!!

.

 

[ZAK]

I don't like Miis very much at all, so I wouldn't like that route, although really, the most important thing is the actual functional features.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Xbox Live is not worth paying for. You can better damn be sure Nintendo service wouldn't be either!!

.

I disagree about XBox live. It's not worth paying for if you don't have a game that you want to play on it. My first year of xbox live was virtually worthless. I didn't use it. Only borderlands brought me back in. If I have one good game that I'm putting a hundred hours into, and it has an online component that improves it, it's worth the money.

That said, having to pay for online matchmaking is a load of garbage.

 

[jetsetfluken]

A legit username system like PSN/XBL and an achievement system is all I ask for.

I'd buy it at a high price.

 

[Kilrogg]

In the end, that's just a guess - I wanted the Miis to be used all over the place this gen and feel it's something Nintendo never really utilized effectively.

That, and WC24. Which is a shame, because they're the two features that could make Nintendo's online solution different from their competitors' (as opposed to plain poor).

 

[AceBandage]

A legit username system like PSN/XBL and an achievement system is all I ask for.

I'd buy it at a high price.

Yes to the former, no thanks to the latter.

 

[Safe Bet]

Yeah the subscription model has worked out really well for HBO.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

PS2 online pay was specific subscription games, not a Sony-provided service. Coincidentally, Wii online already works this way; MonHun is pay-to-play in Japan, and there are music games with large DLC catalogs on a subscription basis.

Not really. Even games like Sony's own PS2 game Hot Shots Golf were pay to play online over there. It wasn't specific to just subscription games. You could pay for one publisher like Capcom and play all their PS2 games online.

Here is an article on Sony charging to play Hot Shots Golf online before it came out: http://ps2.ign.com/articles/393/393954p1.html.

Today, Sony unveiled pricing details for Online play. In addition to the 4800 yen charge for the game itself, you'll have to fork out some cash to play Online. Sony will be offering a fixed 30 day play period for 600 yen or a fixed 90 day period for 1500 yen. Continuing beyond those times will incur a 500 yen monthly charge. Gamers will be able to pay with either web money or credit card.

Of course this was totally free in the US. Japan for some reason is willing to pay for online.

 

[Vinci]

Xbox Live is not worth paying for. You can better damn be sure Nintendo service wouldn't be either!!

.

One thing I'd like to point out real fast about this line of thinking (which I agree with personally): To many old-school PC gamers, X-Box Live is absolutely not worth paying money for. To many console gamers, it absolutely is. The difference is in experience and standards. Now, imagine all the people that own Wii systems that have never owned a video game system before, never mind played any serious online titles on the PC.

After the Wii's token online service, anything remotely stable that offers features (even if they're old to the rest of us) and/or services that these people value could very easily be worth the money.

 

[Cipherr]

I have no problem with charging for "value-added services," whatever those turn out to be, as long as the core online play is free. Nintendo would have to create a much better online infrastructure before they could even think about charging a subscription fee for it.

Thread over.

Its almost painful to HEAR that they are debating a pay service with the barebones model they have in place now. I completely understand that things would likely advance before they started charging for it, but still I almost take it personally that they would speak on it before doing more to their damn near nonexistent online service.

 

[ZAK]

Thread over.

Its almost painful to HEAR that they are debating a pay service with the barebones model they have in place now. I completely understand that things would likely advance before they started charging for it, but still I almost take it personally that they would speak on it before doing more to their damn near nonexistent online service.

So you want them to first do a bunch of nice stuff and then figure out how they're gonna pay for it. Yeah, that sounds like Nintendo.

 

[Ranger X]

One thing I'd like to point out real fast about this line of thinking (which I agree with personally): To many old-school PC gamers, X-Box Live is absolutely not worth paying money for. To many console gamers, it absolutely is. The difference is in experience and standards. Now, imagine all the people that own Wii systems that have never owned a video game system before, never mind played any serious online titles on the PC.

After the Wii's token online service, anything remotely stable that offers features (even if they're old to the rest of us) and/or services that these people value could very easily be worth the money.

Seriously, I am more a console gamer than a PC gamer but paying for Xbox live still sound like a load of bullshit over-consumerism. I've had incredible online experiences for PS2 and PS3. Xbox live is the ONLY exception where you pay for playing online. Charge me on anything but this really. And yes for a PC gamer its also incredibly absurd. Gaming and online gaming isn't born yesterday but yet Microsoft could convince people they shall pay for what's free since forever.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Seriously, I am more a console gamer than a PC gamer but paying for Xbox live still sound like a load of bullshit over-consumerism. I've had incredible online experiences for PS2 and PS3. Xbox live is the ONLY exception where you pay for playing online. Charge me on anything but this really. And yes for a PC gamer its also incredibly absurd. Gaming and online gaming isn't born yesterday but yet Microsoft could convince people they shall pay for what's free since forever.

Yeah, Xbox Live isn't worth it if you have no friends. All my friends in real life are on the system so it's either pay for online or never play with my friends and that isn't an option.

 

[DaBargainHunta]

My biggest issue with Nintendo's online implementation primarily revolves around the way they handle ownership of downloaded content. The inability to transfer anything I buy through the VC, WiiWare, or DSiWare when switching consoles is a pain, and it ensures I won't be switching to a black Wii or anything of the sort anytime soon.

Bringing a unified ID structure to the Wii would solve not only the serious issue of retaining ownership of your games long after you lose ownership of the original hardware they were purchased on (through linking any purchased content to said ID), but it would also make interacting with your friends online far easier.

Agreed 100%. But the irony is, there's such an infrastructure already in place. All of my VC/WW/DSiWare purchases are linked to my Club Nintendo account, and new purchases are automatically added to said account. So there's no reason N can't let you migrate your shit to other systems. But of course they don't. I really don't get what their problem is.

 

[Oli]

If Nintendo made their online services more worthwhile, I'd be willing to pay. But their current setup would not entice me to pay a subscription.

 

[Ranger X]

Yeah, Xbox Live isn't worth it if you have no friends. All my friends in real life are on the system so it's either pay for online or never play with my friends and that isn't an option.

It really depends on how multiplayer online is important to you. For me it's never the most important mode hence why I sure wouldn't pay for it. I prefer local multiplayers with my friends and I also hate this feeling of "oh shit, I must play that because I pay for something and my friends are also playing".

Truth is, my gaming is extremely individualistic and I play my damn games when I want and want to keep the liberty to do so. Most of the time I would probably play the multiplayer online of a game after everybody did quit because they are already on other games. Many of my friends are barely playing the single player mode of their games while for me it's the ultimate first priority.

So seriously, I would only like to plug the game from time to time and play multi AFTER I enjoy single player but this "gamer profile" isn't supported by Microsoft. Right now if there's a game I know I will try the multiplayer mode at some point I prefer to buy it on PS3, it's way more fitting with my gaming habits it seems.

 

[SapientWolf]

You can blame Microsoft for those ideas.

MS is the biggest reason why home consoles have robust online features at all. The east has really been dragging their feet when it comes to online multiplayer (with the possible exception of Capcom).

 

[Somnid]

I'll point out when Nintendo talks about value added it's probably closer to special games and 3G service then whatever social networking / competitive online play you guys are thinking about.

 

[Ranger X]

One easy solution that Microsoft could do to make me pay for online but they obviously aren't supporting like paying per minute, per days or maybe per week.

Heck, how much is XBox live "per month"? like 5-6 bucks?
Microsoft are idiots because I would totally buy a "week end card (2 days)" for 1$

 

[Grampa Simpson]

One thing is for certain, if the fine minds at Nintendo dreaming up ways to improve their online, we will see some improvement in online for their next home console.

 

[Mandoric]

Not really. Even games like Sony's own PS2 game Hot Shots Golf were pay to play online over there. It wasn't specific to just subscription games. You could pay for one publisher like Capcom and play all their PS2 games online.

Here is an article on Sony charging to play Hot Shots Golf online before it came out: http://ps2.ign.com/articles/393/393954p1.html.

Today, Sony unveiled pricing details for Online play. In addition to the 4800 yen charge for the game itself, you'll have to fork out some cash to play Online. Sony will be offering a fixed 30 day play period for 600 yen or a fixed 90 day period for 1500 yen. Continuing beyond those times will incur a 500 yen monthly charge. Gamers will be able to pay with either web money or credit card.

Of course this was totally free in the US. Japan for some reason is willing to pay for online.

Sony acting as a publisher may have charged. This is distinct from Sony acting as a platform holder. Most of the "publisher-wide" deals are actually multipublisher deals with online infrastructure maintained by neither Sony nor the publisher; KDDI Multimatching is the big one, and supported Capcom, some Bandai, and SNK Playmore soft. Conversely, Square and Square Enix titles were pay-per-game; I'm fairly sure Koei are as well. Certain titles, such as Metal Gear Online and I believe Battlefield 2: Modern Combat, were free play.

 

[1-D_FTW]

MS is the biggest reason why home consoles have robust online features at all. The east has really been dragging their feet when it comes to online multiplayer (with the possible exception of Capcom).

Dreamcast.

 

[Brofist]

One easy solution that Microsoft could do to make me pay for online but they obviously aren't supporting like paying per minute, per days or maybe per week.

Heck, how much is XBox live "per month"? like 5-6 bucks?
Microsoft are idiots because I would totally buy a "week end card (2 days)" for 1$

If you are only interested in playing for a weekend at a time you can probably snag a 48 hour code free almost at will on GAF.

 

[Brofist]

Yeah, Xbox Live isn't worth it if you have no friends. All my friends in real life are on the system so it's either pay for online or never play with my friends and that isn't an option.

Oh I have plenty of friends, they all do their multiplayer gaming on the PC.

 

[justchris]

I don't know. This is pretty clearly for a future console/handheld, not a change to their current online. And one thing I think we've all learned about Nintendo (and I'm not saying I necessarily like this) is that they're not beholden to anything they've done in the past. I think it's fairly like that the 3DS and the the successor to the Wii will have a completely different online system from what the DS & Wii use. Whether this will be worth paying for or not is debatable, but it'd have to be pretty spectacular for me to be willing to pay for it. I don't pay for Xbox Live either.

This is like the easiest problem ever for Nintendo to solve. When you set up the Super Wii for the first time, it prompts you to make Miis for everyone who lives in your house. When you go online, it just asks you "who's doing this?" and you pick a Mii out of the list. If you haven't been online before, it gets you to fill out your account info, and saves your account name and Mii to the server. Nintendo's visual metaphor is already perfect to use this way.

That is exactly how I would do it. And you don't even have to have that prompt for the entire household, just prompt to make one for yourself, then offer to make ones for other people who live in the house.

By combining the Miis with the System Code, you don't even need unique usernames. You have a unique System Code, and then users tied to that code. Makes profile management easy.

 

[Vizion28]

Does anyone have an estimate of cost it takes to maintain servers for a game like Mario Kart Wii?

 

[NinjaTehFish]

blah blah blah........I want to know this.....
How many of you here would feel comfortable with your children(child/brother/sister/nephew/niece/cousine/smelly kid from down the road who hero worships you) using psn or live with limited to no supervision between the ages of....7-13? what would you think of an uneducated/ignorant parents letting kids of that age group on these services?

This is what nintendo gets.......i dont need my little brother/sister being called a faggot loser....and before you dickheads woh like to say well deeer they shouldnt be playing halo.....think about sport and racing games......i mean fuck if nintendos service was like live there wouldnt be person on gaf who'd have played mario kart without being called a blue shell cunt....


sooo....Good on you ninty for sticking to your guns and providing the safest online experiance for youngsters. All else is arbitray untill downloading is the only way to get games.
*gently steps off toes*

 

[IcebergSlim3000]

Wait, they are actually thinking of charging people for what is easily the worst of the 3 online services for consoles. Yea good luck with that.

 

[cvxfreak]

I'd rather see a very modest price hike across the board for other things in the system like games, controllers or the system itself rather than have to pay for the online service. I just hate the thought of paying for Xbox Live and don't want to see that implemented onto other systems.

 

[Dresden]

blah blah blah........I want to know this.....
How many of you here would feel comfortable with your children(child/brother/sister/nephew/niece/cousine/smelly kid from down the road who hero worships you) using psn or live with limited to no supervision between the ages of....7-13? what would you think of an uneducated/ignorant parents letting kids of that age group on these services?

This is what nintendo gets.......i dont need my little brother/sister being called a faggot loser....and before you dickheads woh like to say well deeer they shouldnt be playing halo.....think about sport and racing games......i mean fuck if nintendos service was like live there wouldnt be person on gaf who'd have played mario kart without being called a blue shell cunt....


sooo....Good on you ninty for sticking to your guns and providing the safest online experiance for youngsters. All else is arbitray untill downloading is the only way to get games.
*gently steps off toes*

How old are you? :lol

 

[Grampa Simpson]

How old are you? :lol

I'm guessing 12. Probably doesn't understand GAF grammar protocol.

 

[methodman]

How old are you? :lol

Holy shit. I missed his post and thought you were the one who bolded certain words. :lol :lol

 

[Green Biker Dude]

>complaining about insults with namecalling all over the place
>inconsistent and incoherent bolding
>defending horrible online practices
>.......
>purposefully misspelled the word "the" in his username