That looks awesome. Is it any good?
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Shoot the Core! - Gaf Shoot em Up (aka Shooter/SHMUP) Reference Thread
- Thread starter fatty
- Start date
That looks awesome. Is it any good?
That's what I remember liking so much about Jets N' Guns. I wish a dev would make a similar game, but with better design.
Thanks re: Raiden. I will look into them.
Sweet thanks dude! I'll have to try that.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Wow, Caladrius Blaze... could we really start seeing ports/updates of the major X360's shmups making a debut on PS3, more and more? I wonder if Cave would sell the rights to other companies again, probably not after what happened but hey, fingers crossed
Augemitbutter
Member
preordered the Caladrius LE. bring it.
sixteen-bit
Member
is Caladrius any good?
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Thanks for the heads up on Caladrius, ordered.
Have there been any other region free retail shoot'em'ups recently? I think the last ones I picked up were Under Defeat, DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou and Ketsui PS3.
Have there been any other region free retail shoot'em'ups recently? I think the last ones I picked up were Under Defeat, DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou and Ketsui PS3.
ColonelSkills
Member
Other than Caladrius and Raiden (wish this was physical somewhere), what am I missing? I was unaware there were others.
bishopcruz
Member
Starting to get into SHMUPS but I have a question.
Why does it seem that Vertical SHMUPS became the standard and Hori SHMUPS are less common? I could be wrong, but it feels like with the actual aspect ratio of every TV made since 2005 being 16:9 it would be absolutely PERFECT for good hori shooters. Yet most of the best SHMUPS I hear about pretty much require Tate, or else you have to deal with a metric fuckton of wasted real-estate. Just seems odd to me.
If I'm wrong let me know, I just kinda hesitate to get more vertical SHMUPS because I'm kinda feeling like I'm doing it wrong unless I get a tate setup, and that is not in the cards anytime soon.
Or also:
Why hasn't there been a port of Darius 2 with all three screens on a glorious 16:9 ratio? Or at least close enough.
Why does it seem that Vertical SHMUPS became the standard and Hori SHMUPS are less common? I could be wrong, but it feels like with the actual aspect ratio of every TV made since 2005 being 16:9 it would be absolutely PERFECT for good hori shooters. Yet most of the best SHMUPS I hear about pretty much require Tate, or else you have to deal with a metric fuckton of wasted real-estate. Just seems odd to me.
If I'm wrong let me know, I just kinda hesitate to get more vertical SHMUPS because I'm kinda feeling like I'm doing it wrong unless I get a tate setup, and that is not in the cards anytime soon.
Or also:
Why hasn't there been a port of Darius 2 with all three screens on a glorious 16:9 ratio? Or at least close enough.
sixteen-bit
Member
Probably because most of these games were developed for arcades, where vertical monitors were the standard.
Traditionally Bullet Hell works best for verts it's being what CAVE prefers to make, however the run away success of DeathSmiles means CAVE and other devs came around to the idea of Hori Bullet Hells.
CAVE have gone on record as saying our eyes can track bullet patterns much better in a vert than hori and I personally agree. It's probably why Horis BLs like Deathsmiles, Akia Katana and Trouble Witches tend to be made to be easier to play than many verts
Traditional Horis seem to have less bullets and more scenery and enemy waves to dodge.
CAVE have gone on record as saying our eyes can track bullet patterns much better in a vert than hori and I personally agree. It's probably why Horis BLs like Deathsmiles, Akia Katana and Trouble Witches tend to be made to be easier to play than many verts
Traditional Horis seem to have less bullets and more scenery and enemy waves to dodge.
bishopcruz
Member
That makes sense, I suppose, though generally speaking, I always preferred hori shooters with enemy wave dodging and environment dodging to bullet hell vertical shooters for the most part. Even non BH vertical ones have tended to never be my favorites with a few exceptions, (Galactic Attack being the big one. Though I do like Super Star Soldier and Musha quite a bit.) I was more a Gaiares, R-type, Macross guy myself.
I really found myself liking Sine Mora a whole lot on my Vita, and just wish more games would take advantage of the 16:9 aspect ratio. I assume Death Smiles does? I'll take a look and maybe track it down.
Right, but that was generally speaking ages ago. Even, last time I was in Japan nearly a decade ago, it seemed that 16:9 screens were taking over. I have to assume that most modern games are on them. But for most games I get recommended, if you aren't going CRT you have one HELL of a pillarbox because they are all meant for tate.
Hell even a lot of Horis from this gen are in 4:3, that's just plain wrong. Actually do 16:9 SHMUPS even exist?
Deathsmiles is 4:3, and plays very well windowboxed (not pillarboxed so that I get nice integer scaling) on 16:9. I suspect 4:3 is better design when a game has scrolling to all kinds of directions like DS does.
Deathsmiles II is 16:9 (warning: fugly 3D graphics). Akai Katana is 16:9.
Solution: large enough screen and boxing ceases to matter. I play 3:4 tate shooters windowboxed on a 16:9 projector, and the picture area left to the game window is still probably 60" or so.
god i would do unspeakable things for a 16:9 port of darius burst another chronicle ex (with optional 32:9 aspect ratio in letterbox or some kind of dual monitor mode i dunno)
taito whyyyy
bishopcruz
Member
Hell, I have a 51 inch that I'm about 6 ft away from, that still doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer to have all the real estate used. Akai Katana looks cool, though the vids I saw seemed to be windowboxed (slightly) as well. Again, it's not a killer necessarily, I'm just really surprised that more SHMUPS don't try to work with what is the standard aspect ratio. Yeah, back in the day it seemed that we had a better mix of horis and verts, with a few verts being tate, though I suppose that might just be me remembering things differently than they were.
Yeah on a big enough screen it's not a big deal. I normally play on a cab but have been recently been playing some stuff on a 40" (or 46", I forget) widescreen and haven't had too much trouble adjusting. Ideally I'd sit closer to see the denser patterns better but that's the only thing I've run into.
A big issue in the past was the resolution where you'd go from ~240x320 down to ~180x240 on a normal screen for a low res game, so you'd lose a huge chunk of detail that made it harder to see stuff beyond just the smaller size. These days there's enough pixels on screen that it has to scale up just to fit the pillar boxed screen, and for 3D games that'd be scaling down there's still enough detail that it doesn't affect gameplay.
Edit: Akai Katana definitely has widescreen, maybe you saw the original version that was released on 4:3 screens?
"Still"? These games are designed to be played on a 26-29" CRT at touch distance. 3:4 tate window on your 51" 16:9 is about that size, but you are sitting at 6 feet rather than at arm's length - you are seeing a much, much smaller image than appropriate. No wonder it doesn't feel right. On my setup, I sit maybe 7 feet away from a >100" projector screen which leads to the 3:4 tate window being the equivalent of a 60" tated 4:3 display. This is large enough to be comfy. So: larger display and/or sitting closer -> problem goes away.
While I'd love to have a tate setup, I've never felt like not having one was a real barrier to enjoying the games. Don't worry about "doing it wrong."
StarCreator
Member
Both Deathsmiles II and Akai Katana were 4:3 in arcades. The home ports have new 16:9 modes as their default though. Akai Katana at least also has some overscan compensation enabled by default, you can change the zoom factor in the options.
Find a 13 inch CRT for Tateing and older shmups. It's the best because they're typically small enough to flip around with ease.
sixteen-bit
Member
Them boxy PVMs seem tailor-made for tate-ing.
I dream of PVMs ;__;
My copy of Ketsui turned up today! I may not have have experience with many shmups but I have played a ton of Ikaruga and that's pretty hard so I'll be well prepared for this I thought before I actually played it and died almost instantly and constantly thereafter for about an hour. Luckily the title screen music is dope because I'm hearing a lot of it. I've never seen anything as manic as this, it's a whole new world.
I'm not worried about scoring too much at present until I get up to speed with the staying alive bit but the gist from the HG101 article on it seems to be shooting an enemy from closer drops a chip of a higher value which in turn increases my multiplier for subsequent kills within a given time frame. If I hold down fire to get the laser though it resets the multiplier I think which is why there's an autofire on R1, do I have that right?
I'm not worried about scoring too much at present until I get up to speed with the staying alive bit but the gist from the HG101 article on it seems to be shooting an enemy from closer drops a chip of a higher value which in turn increases my multiplier for subsequent kills within a given time frame. If I hold down fire to get the laser though it resets the multiplier I think which is why there's an autofire on R1, do I have that right?
Yeah you more or less got it right, there's some complexities I still don't understand, but basically closer shot kills give you the higher value boxes, where 5 is the highest for being closest. This starts a chain timer in the upper left, which extends with subsequent kills with the laser, and turns red as it runs out.
While it's still counting down, afaik more kills with the shot won't extend it as much as the original kill (except maybe higher value I think? Like if you start a 3 and make a 5 I think it goes up to the usual amount). Whatever the case the timer counts down fast so don't expect to hold super long chains, you kinda have to figure out times to stop shooting for a sec and reset so out speak if you want to maximize your points. If you keep holding down the laser you'll just get 1s once the timer runs out, basically the laser is to sustain higher value chains but can't start them on its own (...unless you learn empty locking but that's a slightly advanced thing).
The auto fire is just auto fire, like tapping the shot button. The difference from shot is that if you tap auto you get a short burst which can be useful for chip damage here and there, whereas the regular shot button gives a longer stream. Like on the little tanks in the opening, if you use the shot you can destroy the whole tank, but with auto you can blow up just the turret and leave the tank body in tact. But otherwise it's just easier to hold auto than tapping shot if you want the shot instead of laser for a given situation. Not sure if you've played Cave stuff before, but holding shot (i.e. laser) slows your ship down, which can be useful for denser patterns, of course you also want to let go if you need to move fast.
...that's a lot of words about what's one of the easier scoring systems to grasp in modern shooters. Like I said in the first paragraph, it can be simplified to kill close with shot, laser until chain timer runs out, repeat. You don't really need to know much more than that until you really get into it.
I think that they should just jump on over to PS4 development instead, especially when PS4 is tons more powerful than PS3, and is more developer friendly than PS3 is.
Bill Rizer
Member
I suppose because bullet hell took over and they're easier to make / work better in vertical setup, where you have all the focus on... bullets. Also feels more "classic" and to me they deliver a greater sense of power and destruction in games like Raiden series (my favourite in this genre).
Horizontals are generally deeper and more varied, both as mechanics and as scenery and interaction, often longer, often slower. Not necessarily more fun. Feel more epic and engaging (Gradius V). Require more effort to be made and fine balancing imho.
StarCreator
Member
It's too soon for that to happen I think; for niche genres like this install base matters a lot, and the PS4 didn't exist in Japan until within the last month. The game doesn't need or could make use of the extra horsepower the PS4 would provide, and committing to a new platform just for the sake of being on a new platform before knowing whether their player base would move with them doesn't strike me as a wise choice.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
So Play-Asia shipped my copy of Dodonpachi Saidaioujou. What can I expect going into this one?
I'm guessing it's more or less an extension of dodonpachi daioujou...only slightly easier? Or harder?
Guess I'll find out in a year when the game arrives.
I'm guessing it's more or less an extension of dodonpachi daioujou...only slightly easier? Or harder?
Guess I'll find out in a year when the game arrives.
sixteen-bit
Member
It's definitely harder.
SOME-MIST
Member
a little off topic, but I ordered a blu-ray via airmail from P-A 8 weeks ago, and it just arrived on Monday lol. It's absurd... especially when their site states that in "extreme cases" it can take 4-5 weeks.
ColonelSkills
Member
8 weeks is definitely an outlier.
I'm Canadian and their SAL shipments tend to take 2 to 2.5.
I'm Canadian and their SAL shipments tend to take 2 to 2.5.
SOME-MIST
Member
I get that, but I always seem have issues with them. I've ordered about 4 items from them over the past 2 years (I've probably ordered 6 in total) in which my order was cancelled and the status was changed to sold out. I was basically told I was SOL. The last item was the blu-ray of "The Holy Mountain".
I get they work with outside suppliers, but it's hard not to get upset over it. I'm considering phasing them out as I have with gamestop.
sixteen-bit
Member
Do it. There's no shortage of alternatives to them, and it's not worth the stress.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Oof.
I already start running into walls towards the end of stage 3 in DoJ.
Oh well. Only time I ever 1CCed one of these damn games was Daifukkatsu with a billion bombs.
ColonelSkills
Member
Wow, that's exceptionally shitty.
Yeah, they don't deserve your business. There's 101 other choices you can use, so you won't be hurting for that.
SOME-MIST
Member
It's just odd, I've been ordering from them for years and just recently have been having issues with the exception of Demon's Souls asian version preorder which they cancelled on me and many other customers right around the time of release.
sorry for straying way off topic though.
In other news, I bought a Strikers 1999 PCB for $120. I'm pretty excited and I'm figuring if I don't like it, I can sell it for what I bought it for.
sorry for straying way off topic though.
In other news, I bought a Strikers 1999 PCB for $120. I'm pretty excited and I'm figuring if I don't like it, I can sell it for what I bought it for.
Heh SDOJ is definitely brutal, especially starting out, but you get used to it. I play 1.5 cause hypers build up faster and there's no score glitch (...not that I'm good enough to even get to that point or trigger it).
Also the novice mode is pretty good. Granted I 1CC'd it on my first try, but it throws out enough stuff that I've failed at it too. There's also novice-expert (the swimsuits) which is kinda bizarro because it uses easier versions of normal-expert patterns (which itself is also a bit different from the normal patterns). I've gotten to stage 5 but I don't think I've 1CC'd that mode, but I haven't concentrated on it.
That's the game that really got me back into shooters as an adult. If you like the Psikyo style stuff it's solid, has the usual chaining medals mechanic, and tech bonuses on bosses, which makes things massively easier if you can do them.
IrishNinja
Member
nice! I adore Fantasy Zone despite never beating any of em (got to the last boss of part 1 on SMS but died & that was it), didn't expect Steel Empire so that's kinda outta nowhere, had that one on my Genesis list for a while now.
IrishNinja
Member
nice! after missing for over 2 months in the mail, my play-asia auction copy finally showed up....while my DC is elsewhere being modded.
sixteen-bit
Member
looks like someone's a fan of the Raiden Fighters toothpaste gun
I missed the question. From memory:
March:
3D Fantasy Zone: Opa-Opa Bros. (J-3DS)
Steel Empire Remake (J-3DS)
Game Center 3DX (J-3DS)
Ge-sen Love + Pengo (J-360, likely region-free)
April:
Bullet Soul Infinite Burst (J-360, region-free??)
Raiden IV Overkill (PS3 Download, Worldwide)
May:
Caladrius Blaze (PS3)
Nah, not in Europe. Good thing it doesn't matter.