DR2K
Banned
A game that got delayed so long that it released a few months before SFIV. That game was a disaster.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Should Nintendo make a Super Smash Bros Melee remaster?
- Thread starter vicissitudes
- Start date
A game that got delayed so long that it released a few months before SFIV. That game was a disaster.
SoulUnison
Banned
They way you worded your original post made it sound like you believe there are more people who want to play Melee in a tournament setting than there are people who want to play Smash 4 at all.
John Kowalski
Banned
competitive melee players are the weirdest thing
Neither. I don't see another Smash game being made that will satisfy the Melee community, not even a Melee remaster. They're picky, and that's fine, it's not hurting anyone. Let them keep playing it. But I think spending time and money on a remaster would be pointless.
I don't know if you've ever played melee but there are far more than 2 melee exclusive stages. And there are 3 melee exclusive characters. Just selling amiibo of them would probably make them enough money to make the whole thing worth it.
The gameplay and presumably online play (as well as possible balance changes) would be the main selling point. It's a smash bros game. With the Nintendo marketing machine behind it (as opposed to melee fanboys dreaming it up on forums) I'm certain that non-competitive players would absolutely be interested in melee hd, and it would easily clear a million units sold.
Shamrock7r
Member
I wouldn't say easily at all, unless you mean worldwide, and even then I don't think it would be by much if it does. It doesn't have the mass appeal clout of other fighting games that have been remade, such as Street Fighter 2. What it does have going for it, is kind of a cult status and a good amount of younger players playing melee are doing so because of that cult status and what they perceive to be as being a part of a "hardcore, we know more" community.
I do think it would sell well enough to turn a profit, but I just don't think Nintendo would see it as being worth the effort and resources.
If the competitive Melee scene didn't even exist, it would still be a worthy Virtual Console title. The first SSB is on there. Melee is the top selling GameCube game. It is likely more well remembered by the masses than any other GameCube game. It will sell and be worth the development.
An HD remaster would be nice, and also shouldn't require a lot of development, but I'm not expecting it to ever happen. Nintendo rarely does remasters at all.
However a Virtual Console game that ran without input lag and used the GameCube adapter would be a very good thing. Unfortunately I don't think VC games are without input lag so it wouldn't be adopted by the competitive community.
They'd have to REALLY be on their fanservice game to remaster a perfect port in HD that they ensure has zero input lag, and even more so to add online play. More bonus for switchable PAL/NTSC modes. Unfortunately it's a pipe dream. If they went for it they'd fuck something up.
Haunted
Member
I did play more of Melee than any other game in the series, but I'm not familiar with 4, hence I wouldn't know how many exclusive stages Melee has compared to that and went with your examples. That said, I do know that 4 has substantially more, in terms of characters, modes, stages, online play - and that's basically the crux of my argument. There's no need for a Melee remaster when 4 exists on the platform. Casual fans love Smash, they don't love Melee (or Brawl, or 64). They just buy the newest one and I think Nintendo knows that and it's the major reason why there's only ever been one Smash game per generation.
I guess we agree to disagree, I don't think this would have much appeal outside the competitive scene.
Maybe if it was the only Smash game available on the NX. Maybe they could lead off that platform with a Melee remaster, I don't know.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Melee fans would probably complain endlessly about how it isn't as good no matter how perfect an update it is. So no, it would probably be a waste of money.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Was going to edit into my previous comment but there have been some more posts.
This is sort of true, and it's all Brawl's fault IMO. Brawl ended up being an awful tournament game for a variety of reasons that dedicated people forced for 4 years or so, before it collapsed and Melee came back. Tripping, the utterly awful balance, the mechanics and physics changes that made defensive play overpowered.
If Brawl was a good competitive game that actually succeeded Melee effectively, I don't think we'd even be having this discussion. Melee never would have had it's big resurgence. After Brawl, nearly everyone in the competitive community would have again moved on to the latest and greatest.
But now we've got people who have played Melee for over a decade. It's play and it's style of play are the standard to them, and the other iterations in the series have deviated from that. So now they can play something that isn't the game they want to play, or they can keep playing the old game. Clearly, many choose the later option, enough that the game is popular enough to continue growing.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Define weird.
I just figure if wind waker hd sold 1 million, melee would too.
Shamrock7r
Member
While true, I think the circumstances are different. Its easier for individual Zelda games to look like standalone products to a mass audience vs Smash Bros Melee which will have the wider audience asking "well what's better about it vs Smash 4?"
He posted that gif because Melee isn't getting replaced by Smash 4 in tournaments. Anyone saying it is isn't actually paying any attention to the tournament scene. This isn't a situation like when Brawl was released.
Jesus, the opinion of the Melee community on this site is absurd. Way to be mad at people for being passionate about something they love. "Hardcore, we know more cult status," really? Maybe it's because high level Melee is extremely unique and exhilarating for those people, and they haven't been able to get the same experience from any other game? It's amazing how it's seemingly okay to bash people who like something you don't fully understand on here when it comes to Melee. Ugh.
An HD port done right would absolutely sell enough to justify development. Ignore your hatred for the Melee community and think about how much you liked Melee back in the day, and tell me if you'd pay a low price for a VC port or a bit more for an HD remaster. Enough of the millions of people who bought the game on GameCube would say yes to that and would justify development costs. Especially because it doesn't need 4000% bloom lighting and new textures for dozens of huge landscapes, or rebalancing and new content. It doesn't really even need online play.
An HD port done right would absolutely sell enough to justify development. Ignore your hatred for the Melee community and think about how much you liked Melee back in the day, and tell me if you'd pay a low price for a VC port or a bit more for an HD remaster. Enough of the millions of people who bought the game on GameCube would say yes to that and would justify development costs. Especially because it doesn't need 4000% bloom lighting and new textures for dozens of huge landscapes, or rebalancing and new content. It doesn't really even need online play.
Wii U had no zelda game before that remake, so people bought that to scratch their itch.
The wii U has smash 4 now thought. If splatoon barely sold 1m you think melee HD would?especially considering most of the casual crowd would rather stick to smash 4?
(If it was like 30 bucks id def buy melee HD with online tho but thats because I follow that scene)
I think the casual crowd doesn't really care what they're playing, as long as its different. Enough of them would buy Melee since it's different that when combined with hardcore fan sales it would sell more than enough to cover development.
TheAggroCraig
Member
Even if they did, people would bitch and moan about it in some form and still play the original.
John Kowalski
Banned
So much work and training for so little money! Or maybe things are better these days.
So... Exactly what happened with Wind Waker HD?
Shamrock7r
Member
Calm down, I'm not bashing your game. I like Melee. There are many legitimate reasons to prefer Melee over Smash4 from a competitive standpoint as they play very different. I've seen enough conversations with lot of newcomers to the melee community to know that they are still just grasping the overall concept of the smash games as a whole, and they are regurgitating bad generalizations of the 4 games without understanding the different nuances between them. That happens all the time when something cult or underground gains popularity with a new segment of people. Does that make more sense to you?
Dude stop being so damn defensive and angry. A lot of those millions that bought Melee have either moved on to Smash 4 or have moved on to other games. Not all of them follow the competitive community, and good chunk of people that buy Smash don't care about that. That would be the big selling point of a Melee remake, which is an issue.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
People bitch and moan about everything. Not a compelling reason not to make this.
Goldenmoney
Member
Nah they don't need to do a remaster. What they should do is just make a decent smash sequel that mimics melee's speed and combat.
I don't think the comment was specifically referring to you. A lot of people in this thread are being rather shitty about the Melee community (And ironically acting like a lot of the stereotypes of the Melee community, like shitting on the way other people play the game).
EDIT: Sorry, missed that the quote was by you.
Shamrock7r
Member
He directly quoted something I said without understanding what I said.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Most people play for love of the game. Tournament winnings are getting pretty good though, Armada and Leffen are probably doing really well for themselves, Hbox, M2K, and Mango to a lesser extent.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Take Smash 4 Wii U.
Add a "Melee Mode" where roster is limited to characters from Melee and mimics the original stages, balance etc.
Still a bad idea but better than a remaster IMO.
Add a "Melee Mode" where roster is limited to characters from Melee and mimics the original stages, balance etc.
Still a bad idea but better than a remaster IMO.
BigBadShamoo
Banned
No, there is project M. If people really want to they can make more maps. It's kind of annoying how most console games don't allow user created content.
Shamrock7r
Member
Even Project M plays differently in a lot of ways vs Melee, from what I've heard. I haven't had too much experience with Project M
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
PM is great (especially the last couple versions) but it's a mod, and that's not going to sit well with a lot of people. Especially since it's been on the trending downward since Smash 4 came out and Nintendo has apparently been putting pressure on streamers and TOs (Paragon LA being the obviously exception).
It's not exactly like Melee but it is clearly heavily inspired by it and strives for the same sort of "feel." Very much feels like a "sequel" to Melee in that regard, if Brawl had been PM circa 3.5-3.6, I think it would have been very well accepted by the Melee community at the time.
John Kowalski
Banned
That's nice to hear. Last time i checked things were kinda depressing.
socksfelloff
Member
Someone posted that armadas tournament winnings this year are ~45k USD
Melee on dolphin has better net play then smash 4.
But yes, melee HD is needed
I think if Nintendo made this game, and supported the competitive scene the way Capcom supports Street Fighter, most people would make the switch.
As Chaosblade said, Project M is forever limited in what it could do. Their devs (some at least) are working on a stand-alone game with I assume unique characters to mimic the type of fighter smash is. But, Twitch/Nintendo have kicked it off Twitch streaming, so it will never find casual viewers since channels only find views during weeklies/tournaments.
In the middle of it.
I'm just saying a Melee HD would just be building a wall between the two.
Pokemaniac
Member
There are really good reasons for that. Allowing UGC is the quickest way to make QA on a game hell. Plus, you really need a good pointer or touchscreen for user content creators to not be awkward.
I'm not really sure that's true. Wind Waker is roughly on the same playing field as every other 3D Zelda game- it doesn't lack any features standard to 3D Zeldas. On the other hand, selling Melee HD to non-competitive fans seems like a challenge to me. How can they market the game? To casual fans, it would be "Smash 4 with less characters and less stages", which seems like a no-brainer for casual fans to avoid.
While I would basically buy anything Smash, Melee HD included, I don't really believe that a Melee HD is in demand despite some frequent murmurings from the community about it. It appeals to a small niche, which Nintendo should decide if it is worth appealing to. And, as a few others have said in this thread, its very likely that any changes Nintendo makes to the game (intentional or just as a ramification of doing a port) is likely to be received negatively by the somewhat fickle community.
finalgamer
Member
Too low priority.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Goldenmoney
Member
Yea I honestly can't blame people for sticking with melee. It's just a way better competitive fighting game compared to smash wiiu and brawl.
MaverickHunterAsh
Member
I feel like the hardcore Melee community can be such an echo chamber sometimes... so many people in it often forget that they're the only people who love Melee as much as they do and care about Melee's unique mechanics even a little bit. That's not to take anything away from Melee fans, because they absolutely should keep on playing the game they love, but to most of the wider Smash audience - i.e. everyone outside of the comparatively small groups of people who only play Melee and PM - Melee is a worse-looking Smash 4 with about 30 less characters, 35 less stages, several hundred fewer songs and trophies, etc.
I've seen some people in this thread that the Ice Climbers, Pichu, and Young Link (ehh...) are amazing Melee-exclusive characters that people would jump at the chance to go back and play as, and that may be true. But I'd bet I could find a much greater number of people who, given the choice, would take Rosalina, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Lucas, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Bowser Jr., Wario, Toon Link, Pit, Palutena, Olimar, Wii Fit Trainer, Ike, Lucina, Robin, Diddy Kong, Little Mac, Zero Suit Samus, Duck Hunt, Charizard, Lucario, Greninja, R.O.B., Villager, and Shulk instead. Maybe even Dark Pit, too.
On top of that, Melee fans are so incredibly picky about what they will and will not accept in Smash (not saying that's a bad thing, it's just true) and so distrustful of Sakurai's ability to deliver what they alone want that it's almost guaranteed a Melee HD would be scrutinized and rejected to the point of embarrassment. There's just no money or purpose in it for Nintendo; the Melee community would likely reject it for any number of valid reasons, Smash enthusiasts who main one of the 30 characters not in Melee would ignore it, and the casual audience would take one look at it and go "okay, cool, but I have this other game I like and already paid for that looks a lot better and lets me and my friends pit Mario against Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man on a Super Mario Galaxy stage."
I'm NOT saying I think Melee is a bad/inferior game, or that Melee fans should move on already, or that Melee fans are stupid for staying devoted to Melee. I think the devotion Melee fans have to their game is awesome as long as they can respect the fact that it has to exist alongside (and not instead of) Smash 4. I'm only saying Melee fans often overestimate how many people outside of their own community value Melee's mechanics over 30+ more characters and stages and superior, HD graphics.
I've seen some people in this thread that the Ice Climbers, Pichu, and Young Link (ehh...) are amazing Melee-exclusive characters that people would jump at the chance to go back and play as, and that may be true. But I'd bet I could find a much greater number of people who, given the choice, would take Rosalina, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Lucas, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Bowser Jr., Wario, Toon Link, Pit, Palutena, Olimar, Wii Fit Trainer, Ike, Lucina, Robin, Diddy Kong, Little Mac, Zero Suit Samus, Duck Hunt, Charizard, Lucario, Greninja, R.O.B., Villager, and Shulk instead. Maybe even Dark Pit, too.
On top of that, Melee fans are so incredibly picky about what they will and will not accept in Smash (not saying that's a bad thing, it's just true) and so distrustful of Sakurai's ability to deliver what they alone want that it's almost guaranteed a Melee HD would be scrutinized and rejected to the point of embarrassment. There's just no money or purpose in it for Nintendo; the Melee community would likely reject it for any number of valid reasons, Smash enthusiasts who main one of the 30 characters not in Melee would ignore it, and the casual audience would take one look at it and go "okay, cool, but I have this other game I like and already paid for that looks a lot better and lets me and my friends pit Mario against Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man on a Super Mario Galaxy stage."
I'm NOT saying I think Melee is a bad/inferior game, or that Melee fans should move on already, or that Melee fans are stupid for staying devoted to Melee. I think the devotion Melee fans have to their game is awesome as long as they can respect the fact that it has to exist alongside (and not instead of) Smash 4. I'm only saying Melee fans often overestimate how many people outside of their own community value Melee's mechanics over 30+ more characters and stages and superior, HD graphics.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
This is the only part of your post I disagree with. The Melee scene plus however many nostalgic folks would be interested in it is big enough to make it a profitable effort for Nintendo.
IF they do it right. If balance changes are made, they should really offer the original as an option too. Balance changes more than likely means it will be Brawl 2.0, with all the top half of the cast getting massive nerfs and the bottom half maybe getting some slight buffs, so every character is just really bad and not fun to play.
I feel like the ideal minimal effort remaster would be to add customizable controls, widescreen, and have the game remember your settings (why isn't this a thing in ANY Smash game?), and have it render in 1080p. Easier said than done, but it would still be a fairly easy remaster to manage, probably take just a few months if WWHD is anything to go by, and ultimately be profitable for Nintendo and extremely awesome for the community since they could ditch the CRTs.
The more they try to do with it the more it will cost, and the more it costs the less viable it is.