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[R0nn]

Nah, I'm gonna finish the game. Like I do with all Zelda games. I genuinly enjoy how they play, so I'll probably persevere.

After my first trek through the Temple of the Ocean King though, I already got afraid that this would become a really boring part of the game that just keeps on dragging. Seems my fears weren't unfounded.

 

[Dascu]

I like the concept of the Ocean King's Temple, but the time limit and dungeon-reset upon leaving is fairly tedious. The rest of the game is fine, but too lineair and the dungeons aren't challenging at all (short, easy enemies, easy, though somewhat fun, puzzles and very lineair).

 

[Oblivion]

I said it before, but I always enjoyed those quiet comparatively slow opening moments of games like Twilight Princess. It always feels like the quiet before a storm, a nice way to just get me going. Now, there's no doubt it probably went on a little TOO long, and that what followed it "the three dungeons/wolf tear hunting" was the shittiest part of the game, but I enjoyed that introduction.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It was during the tears quest that it got really aggravating. But I didn't think the introduction itself was too bad, really.

 

[farnham]

Wow Nintendo had great great First Party titles in the last few years...

And Zelda TP is really one of them


(although id say that Wii Sports and EXCITE TRUCK is better)

 

[Duderz]

Once Twilight Princess went to Hyrule Overworld is when the game picked up and for me didn't let go.

Before that, looking back, yeah it dragged, but for crying out loud, you're playing a 40+ hour game here.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

No.

Yes.

 

[Eteric Rice]

It picked up for me after the first dungeon.

I loved the game, but then again, I didn't beat OOT.

 

[Gallagher]

Why dont they give the licence to Level 5, Bioware and Konami for one Game in the Zelda Universe with Link.

Level 5 can do a East RPG Version of the Game
Bioware can do a West RPG Version of the Game
And Konami can do a "story driven action adventure Zelda" by Hideo Kojima.

*g*

 

[radioheadrule83]

I don't trust anyone here to decide what Zelda or any other Nintendo game should be.
No-one at GAF foretold Celda or Super Mario Galaxy, so I just want Nintendo to keep on doing it their way.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Why dont they give the licence to Level 5, Bioware and Konami for one Game in the Zelda Universe with Link.

Level 5 can do a East RPG Version of the Game
Bioware can do a West RPG Version of the Game
And Konami can do a "story driven action adventure Zelda" by Hideo Kojima.

*g*

Zelda is not an RPG.
Zelda is not an RPG.
Maybe.

I don't trust anyone here to decide what Zelda or any other Nintendo game should be.
No-one at GAF foretold Celda or Super Mario Galaxy, so I just want Nintendo to keep on doing it their way.

If it was me, I'd have the game start out making you think that Ganon was the enemy, but then you find out something far worse is looming.

Like Super Mario RPG's story.

 

[ksamedi]

TP was a good well made Zelda and has some of the best dunguons in the series. Why some people don't like it as much as the other Zelda's though is that it didn't set any new standard or didn't set a new benchmark in gaming. I think a lot of the Zelda titles before it somehow did something groundbraking stuff (except for a fer handheld titles) while TP was just one big love letter to OOT and didn't try to do anything new. It felt like Ocarina with better graphics and better dunguons. Personally I don't want the next Zelda to be anything like TP but more like PH and expand on a new gameplay concept.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Just because they made a good platformer doesn't necessarily mean they will make good games in other genres

I think that you should let them try at least.

 

[thefro]

Yokota definitely needs to do the music for the next Wii Zelda... otherwise let EAD Tokyo do a new IP.

 

[grandjedi6]

I think that you should let them try at least.

Why can't they make a new IP? Why do they have to develop the next Zelda game when there are people doing a good job at it already?

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Aonuma's more than capable of delivering a superb Zelda experience.

We know, but the Zelda series needs a different point of view. Aren't you tired to see always the same things ? Always the same puzzles ? Always almost the same story ? Always the same musics ? Haven't you thought for a moment that maybe the cause is that since 10 years behind the series there is always the team of Aonuma ?

The Zelda series needs a refreshing and this means necessarily a different team.

 

[Oblivion]

Realistically speaking, you don't need a whole new team to make a different game. The Zelda team is perfectly capable of doing great graphics, dungeons and whatnot. Really, all you need is someone else to direct it, and I suppose some new designers. They don't necessarily have to switch development all the way to Tokyo or anything.

 

[Fio]

Absolutely not.
This same team developed Majoras Mask, they're more than skilled to do for the series what it needs.

 

[radioheadrule83]

We know, but the Zelda series needs a different point of view. Aren't you tired to see always the same things ? Always the same puzzles ? Always almost the same story ? Always the same musics ? Haven't you thought for a moment that maybe the cause is that behind the series there is always the team of Aonuma ?

The Zelda series needs a refreshing and this means necessarily a different team.

Nobody wanted anything new prior to TPs release. In fact, I caught my first ban on this forum for freaking out when they announced Realda, because I KNEW it would be the OOT-a-like that people wanted.

The good thing is that going off post-Twilight-Princess interviews, Nintendo (Aonuma included) seem to be aware that we're sick of samey button, switches and bottle puzzles. The next Zelda *won't* be the same.

I think some of you let your penchant for critique cloud your judgement. The past few Zelda games have been fantastic. Perhaps you'd have rather bought and played some other adventure? Yes, there's room for change and improvement, but I don't think Aonuma and his team have dropped the ball yet at all.

 

[Oblivion]

Even before TP came out, I didn't think that it would garner the universal praise that OoT did, but I also didn't think that there would be such a backlash with most people writing off the game as nothing more than an OoT clone (this includes the reviewers that seemed to love it as well). Which is a fucking shame cause I'm sure this'll lead Nintendo to try something new just for the sake of being new, rather than addressing the inherent issues wrong with the game.

 

[Deku]

Even before TP came out, I didn't think that it would garner the universal praise that OoT did, but I also didn't think that there would be such a backlash with most people writing off the game as nothing more than an OoT clone (this includes the reviewers that seemed to love it as well). Which is a fucking shame cause I'm sure this'll lead Nintendo to try something new just for the sake of being new, rather than addressing the inherent issues wrong with the game.

I liked TP, it's really Wind Waker as it should have been and GameCube's swan song. I didn't treat it as anything more than that. The Wii controls worked quite well which was very nice.


That doesn't really address my belief that the games need a rethink. They're moving in the right direction with Phantom Hourglass, but that is a portable game and a 'sequel' to windwaker and borrows many of its elements by default. PH is still at its heart, a fairly linear dungeon > item > solve puzzles > defeat boss type of fare. But the large central dungeon is a plus.

We've yet to see what a totally detached 'sequel' to OOT would look like. The shadow of Wind Waker loomed large, unfortunatelly. But luckily, EAD now has a chance to break away and do a direct sequel, on the Wii.

 

[Oblivion]

We've yet to see what a totally detached 'sequel' to OOT would look like. The shadow of Wind Waker loomed large, unfortunatelly. But luckily, EAD now has a chance to break away and do a direct sequel, on the Wii.

A WW sequel on Wii you mean?

 

[MaddenNFL64]

What if Nintendo just changed the characters, plot, and theme, but kept the formula? Would that work for you all? No more Link with master Sword. Now it's Master Bob with the Fury Katana.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I don't really care for another Zelda right now.

Twilight Princess, what have you done?

Come back to the series in a while with some fresh gameplay ideas, Nintendo.

 

[titiklabingapat]

I wanna see a Zelda where Gannon is the hero, with his triforce representing power to overcome the maniacal, omniprescent and demented queen of Hyrule. Link will be a bg character this time.

 

[Lobster]

I wanna see a Zelda where Gannon is the hero, with his triforce representing power to overcome the maniacal, omniprescent and demented queen of Hyrule. Link will be a bg character this time.

No wai dude. Link can fuse with Ganon but if Ganon is the hero..no wai!

 

[ironichaos]

If they're going to continue with the Zelda franchise, they need to do something NEW. I think I can speak for all of us when I say, the formula has become extremely boring.

The game isn't called "Link", so I hope they won't hesitate using a new main character. Perhaps someone from the Sheikah tribe (their ninja skills could add a new element to the gameplay).

 

[superfly]

They def need something new. I'm playing TP at the mo (i got it at launch and never finished it) and playing it now after the hype has died you can see it is awfully generic. Great, great game but they need to do something really new, perhaps something as radical as modernising it.

I'd like to see the Tokyo studio do something completely new. Think how refreshing it was when Katamari came along. A totally fresh concept out of the left field. I'd love to see what Tokyo can do without the constraints of a classic franchise.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

If they would simply modernize the combat system to something that hasn't been used for the last 10 years, it would help a ton.

 

[Dascu]

You can change the story all you want, it'll never manage to refresh the franchise if the core gameplay isn't dealt with. And changing Ganondorf into the main character? It wouldn't be a Zelda game like that. Otherwise, we might as well consider Tingle's Rupee Roseland as the rebirth the franchise needs.

We basically need a change like Mario Galaxy. Story is still largely the same. Setting's a bit different, but it's the new gameplay mechanic (though linked to story and setting) that's caused the shift.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Why do they have to develop the next Zelda game when there are people doing a good job at it already?

Because a "good job" isn't good enough anymore. Zelda used to be something that was new, revolutionary and unique. It is definitely not anymore. If Mario can completely reinvent himself with every game* why can't Link?

*Not counting portables (Mario Land) or spinoffs (Yoshi's Island), look at Mario's progression:

Super Mario Bros 1 - SMB 2 - SMB 3 - World - SM64 - Sunshine - Galaxy

Every game is completely different from the last. Zelda deserves the same treatment.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

I just don't see how anyone could firmly believe the Super Mario Galaxy team will do "a killer original IP". The Japanese market has influenced Nintendo's direction more than anything else. How does the Japanese market feel about awesome traditional games? The numbers say they just aren't very excited about them. If Iwata and Miyamoto did not encourage the Super Mario Galaxy team to make Super Mario Galaxy game, you would have seen a low budget quirky game with accessibility being the core aspect of design.

The Legend of Zelda, Super Mario Galaxy are all going to be smashing successes world wide. But in Japan, the message is clear in stating that what is good for the hardcore Nintendo gamer, is not good for the new pop audience Nintendo market.

If the Super Mario Galaxy team doesn't do a big hardcore Nintendo IP sequel, they will most likely fall into the Nintendogs, Brain Academy, Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Wii Music department.

As far as The Legend of Zelda IP, I think it should definitely stay within Aonuma's grasp. Aonuma has two development teams who have soo much experience with the franchise. The disappointment of Twilight Princess was that it failed to take advantage of the Wii hardware. It was delayed GameCube redux overlining what is an excellent game.

 

[Dascu]

Because a "good job" isn't good enough anymore. Zelda used to be something that was new, revolutionary and unique. It is definitely not anymore. If Mario can completely reinvent himself with every game* why can't Link?

*Not counting portables (Mario Land) or spinoffs (Yoshi's Island), look at Mario's progression:

Super Mario Bros 1 - SMB 2 - SMB 3 - World - SM64 - Sunshine - Galaxy

Every game is completely different from the last. Zelda deserves the same treatment.

Well, aren't you exaggerating a bit?
I mean, let's look at those Mario games in-depth.

SMB 1 start it all with the basics.
SMB 2, the Doki doki version, changed the game around a lot with multiple character, picking up enemies, etc.
SMB 3 fleshed it all out.
World was a lot like SMB 3, I'd call it the Twilight Princess of the Mario games.
SM64 went 3D.
Sunshine introduced Fludd, but didn't do much otherwise.
Galaxy refreshes 3D Mario.

Now, when comparing to the Zelda franchise, it's largely similar, really.

Zelda 1 started it all with a basic, open adventure.
AoL introduced RPG elements and changed the perspective.
LttP added more story, presented the dual-worlds mechanic and fleshed out the basics layed out in Zelda 1.
OoT made the shift to 3D and presented the horseriding, child and adult Link.
MM focused on NPC interaction.
WW introduced sailing and long, annoying fetch quests, presented in a fantastic art style.
TP introduced wolf Link and fleshed out the concept of OoT.

I think we're all feeling so negative, is because TP felt too much like OoT. We wouldn't be talking like this if WW was the latest entry in the franchise.

We need the next, real Zelda Wii to present a change like Galaxy did, and I think it will. Have some faith.

 

[Iron_Scimitar]

Legend of Zelda: Future

 

[Gigglepoo]

Well, aren't you exaggerating a bit?

Not really. If you throw aside everything else (art style, side quests, etc) and just focus on gameplay, Mario has been completely different every time.

SMB - Timing jumps with few power ups
SMB2 - Exploration based, light platforming. Unique attributes and no power ups.
SMB3 - Back to traditional platforming with tons of exploration, secrets and power ups.
World - Builds on SMB3 ideas with an emphasis on secrets and flight
Mario 64 - Exploration and 3D flight
Sunshine - 3D platforming, less navigation but more jumping challenges
Galaxy - Off the wall dimension shifts and chaotic level design

World is the only game in the series that actually builds directly off its predecessor. Everything else is completely unique, placing the emphasis on different elements of the gameplay with specific controls and level design to bring out the best of these ideas.

More than anything else, it is the gameplay in Zelda that needs an overhaul.

 

[A Link to the Past]

If they're going to continue with the Zelda franchise, they need to do something NEW. I think I can speak for all of us when I say, the formula has become extremely boring.

The game isn't called "Link", so I hope they won't hesitate using a new main character. Perhaps someone from the Sheikah tribe (their ninja skills could add a new element to the gameplay).

Do we NEED another ninja game?

 

[Oblivion]

I think one thing we can all agree on is no matter what NIntendo does with the next Zelda, people will still bitch endlessly.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I think one thing we can all agree on is no matter what NIntendo does with the next Zelda, people will still bitch endlessly.

Is any sane person complaining about Super Mario Galaxy?

 

[radcliff]

Just because they made a good platformer doesn't necessarily mean they will make good games in other genres

Yoshiaki Koizumi of EAD Tokyo was one of the directors of Zelda: OOT

 

[AfunkyArcadeStick]

I think they should make a real 3D Pokemon RPG, not the battle stadium nonsense they've been feeding us for years

 

[radcliff]

Well, whaddya know. Since there is an opening for director for Pikmin, maybe Aonuma will handle Pikmin 3?

Or, since Hino worked on BBA, maybe he is under Hiroyuki Kimura's (BBA's creator and producer) EAD group and they are working on Pikmin 3.

 

[Oblivion]

Is any sane person complaining about Super Mario Galaxy?

The fanbase for Sunshine seems to be far smaller (or at least, less vocal) than that for OoT, MM, and WW.

 

[Dascu]

Not really. If you throw aside everything else (art style, side quests, etc) and just focus on gameplay, Mario has been completely different every time.

SMB - Timing jumps with few power ups
SMB2 - Exploration based, light platforming. Unique attributes and no power ups.
SMB3 - Back to traditional platforming with tons of exploration, secrets and power ups.
World - Builds on SMB3 ideas with an emphasis on secrets and flight
Mario 64 - Exploration and 3D flight
Sunshine - 3D platforming, less navigation but more jumping challenges
Galaxy - Off the wall dimension shifts and chaotic level design

World is the only game in the series that actually builds directly off its predecessor. Everything else is completely unique, placing the emphasis on different elements of the gameplay with specific controls and level design to bring out the best of these ideas.

More than anything else, it is the gameplay in Zelda that needs an overhaul.

Well yes, the Mario games are different, but the Zelda franchise too.

 

[Gigglepoo]

The fanbase for Sunshine seems to be far smaller (or at least, less vocal) than that for OoT, MM, and WW.

Um... ok?

This thread basically has two groups: people who are happy with the Zelda formula and those who feel the franchise needs an overhaul. Personally, I don't think I can go through another Zelda adventure if it continues to mirror OoT. I would hate to anger fans who simply love those games, but I think it's possible to reinvent the series without abandoning the franchise staples.

If you would like an example, look at Mario Galaxy.

Well yes, the Mario games are different, but the Zelda franchise too.

The gameplay and level design hasn't changed since Link to the Past.

 

[Oblivion]

Um... ok?

This thread basically has two groups: people who are happy with the Zelda formula and those who feel the franchise needs an overhaul. Personally, I don't think I can go through another Zelda adventure if it continues to mirror OoT. I would hate to anger fans who simply love those games, but I think it's possible to reinvent the series without abandoning the franchise staples.

If you would like an example, look at Mario Galaxy.



The gameplay and level design hasn't changed since Link to the Past.

Maybe I should have clarified. Mario Sunshine seemed like it was less liked compared to Mario 64, so there aren't that many people that are complaining about Galaxy because it seems to be reminiscient of Mario 64.

Whereas with Zelda, relative to Sunshine, I feel more people seemed to like something like WW (as one example), hence you hear many of the complaints against TP.

...if that makes sense. I'm still tired, so forgive me.

 

[Chemo]

Let this studio tackle whatever the hell they want to. (Psst. StarFox could use some help.)

 

[Dascu]

The gameplay and level design hasn't changed since Link to the Past.

Mario's been run-'n-jumping through levels since the first game. Each game feels different, but I'd say the same's true for Zelda. The only problem is that TP, the latest entry and the one still fresh in our mind, is really a copy of OoT. For the rest, each title has introduced gameplay mechanics that make it feel and play like a new game.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Mario's been run-'n-jumping through levels since the first game. Each game feels different, but I'd say the same's true for Zelda. The only problem is that TP, the latest entry and the one still fresh in our mind, is really a copy of OoT. For the rest, each title has introduced gameplay mechanics that make it feel and play like a new game.

Mario is able to feel fresh every time with excellent level design. The focus of each adventure shifts based on how the specific design of each level. So, while Mario simply runs and jumps in SMB and SMB3, they are completely different experiences because of how Mario travels through each level.

Zelda doesn't offer this same variety. Furthermore, the "power ups" in Zelda (items) have such specific uses that they are only useful in certain moments. This is a serious problem. The series needs new "level" designers badly.

 

[Oblivion]

Mario is able to feel fresh every time with excellent level design. The focus of each adventure shifts based on how the specific design of each level. So, while Mario simply runs and jumps in SMB and SMB3, they are completely different experiences because of how Mario travels through each level.

Zelda doesn't offer this same variety. Furthermore, the "power ups" in Zelda (items) have such specific uses that they are only useful in certain moments. This is a serious problem. The series needs new "level" designers badly.

Eh, can't really agree with you here, dude. It's one thing to want some radical change. It's another to suggest that the Mario games (which I love) have evolved far more than Zelda has.

 

[Dascu]

Mario is able to feel fresh every time with excellent level design. The focus of each adventure shifts based on how the specific design of each level. So, while Mario simply runs and jumps in SMB and SMB3, they are completely different experiences because of how Mario travels through each level.

Zelda doesn't offer this same variety. Furthermore, the "power ups" in Zelda (items) have such specific uses that they are only useful in certain moments. This is a serious problem. The series needs new "level" designers badly.

You're right that Mario games often feel more different, but you must admit the Zelda franchise has presented a good amount of new ideas and gameplay mechanics in each installment. It's usually never something that changes the core gameplay though.

As for the "power ups", you're right. I agree that the battle system would be a lot more fun if items had more uses.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Eh, can't really agree with you here, dude. It's one thing to want some radical change. It's another to suggest that the Mario games (which I love) have evolved far more than Zelda has.

I guess we view each series totally different. It seems as though Nintendo has essentially remade Link to the Past over and over again. And though much of MM involving talking to people and running quests for them (something very unique to that game), the gameplay and level design of the dungeons was still identical to what LttP introduced years earlier.

I chronicled how, by just messing with level design Nintendo was able to redefine Mario every iteration, earlier in this thread. Would you be able to do the same with Zelda? The gameplay (namely the combat and ways in which you interact with the environment) and the dungeon designs have not changed in more than a decade. Do you think the Time Dungeon from TP or the Ice Dungeon from PH would have been completely out of place in LttP? Do you think the Bee Galaxy would fit right into Super Mario 64?