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Should we boycott Shadow Complex?

Wizpig

Member
Sep 3, 2007
5,338
1
0
Should we boycott Shadow Complex?
Wait, why should i boyc-

Now he has self admitted he didnt have much to do with this game, but, he will be getting profits for the game
Ok but wh-

Now why should we boycott it? Card is a notorious homophobe.
...wut.

What if he is? the guy's an idiot; but should i not play an awesome game because of that? because you don't want to give money to an already rich homophobe?
Worst thread of the day.
 

Clevinger

Member
Mar 8, 2006
15,093
0
0
He's one of many people involved in this project. If you were to find out the views of all involved in projects of your favorite games and movies you'd no doubt find at least a few racist, homophobic, and generally batshit insane or intolerant views.

But punishing a group for the views of a likely minority doesn't make much sense to me. You're like the teacher who doesn't give the class candy because one kid was bad. "I'm sorry, you ruined it for everybody."

If it was something like a book then I could understand, where the involvement in the project is mainly Card.
 

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
May 1, 2007
5,919
1
0
Boise
Big-E said:
JESUS AGAIN THIS ISN'T ABOUT OPINIONS! Buying this game directly supports the fattening of OSC's wallet which in turn allows his vendetta against gays to continue.

Apparently this is a hard concept to grasp. I'm not sure why.
 

BobTheFork

Member
Feb 14, 2005
25,070
0
0
41
Denver
FlyinJ said:
So someone who would want to deny the rights of black people to marry shouldn't be considered a "racist". They should be considered a "marriage activist".

Got it.
I think it's a different point on some level. Religion can really take a hold on people's lives. That's isn't an excuse by any means but if you brought up a certain way, it can be very hard to come to terms with progressive society. I still have a few people in my family who aren't racist, or sexist and I wouldn't call them homophobic. They have Gay freinds and co-workers, but when you specifically bring up marriage they just lock up. They don't even think unions should be excluded, they just think 'marriage' should be a man and a woman and we should find another term for same sex couples *shrugs*. I disagree with them, but these aren't bad people, they just have defined their world. We should help them understand better, not just label them as them may label others. I hope that sounded right :/
 

Mercury Fred

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
9,512
1
0
Smash88 said:
Honestly, if you don't buy Shadow Complex due to someones opinion, that in no way is involved with the game or is part of the dev team, you must be smoking something.
To repeat, an opinion is not the same thing as an organized, highly funded campaign to not block the granting of rights, but to strip individuals of rights they already legally had.

So yeah, get this through your thick fucking skulls.

Also, if the dev team wanted to pledge a portion of the proceeds of this game to repeal Prop 8, I'd buy it then.
 

Mutagenic

Permanent Junior Member
Aug 18, 2007
6,750
0
0
Segata Sanshiro said:
Thank you for being a humourless twat that completely misses jokes. Makes my life more enjoyable.
If it was meant as a joke then I apologize. Jerkface.
 

Ravidrath

Member
Jun 8, 2005
10,390
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0
43
Los Angeles, CA
ShockingAlberto said:
I doubt it reflects Chair's ideology at all. While they probably were not unaware of Chair's views and rants, but he is also a popular author among a certain set of people.

If I knew, for example, a klan member was working on a game, I probably wouldn't buy it. But that's just me, not everyone has those same principles.

Chair is in Salt Lake City - it is fairly likely that some, if not a majority, of the team has similar views, if not to the same degree. As I understand it, there is a reason Card works with Chair, and it's entirely related to their mutual faith.

That said, I think it's silly to boycott this game because of Card's radical views. It's unlikely that everyone at Chair is a professional homophobe.

If it still does bother you, I think GayGamer's donation suggestion is the way to go.
 

Roland

Member
Mar 4, 2006
536
0
0
I was planning on buying a MS Points card for Shadow Complex this weekend. Glad to know that I will be saving some money.
 

Taij

Member
Dec 5, 2008
177
0
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duckroll said:
I think this is the problem though, how do we know for sure that they don't share Card's views? I'm not talking about say, the employees working at Chair who worked hard on the game. I'm loving the game, and I acknowledge their hard work. But one thing I think would be good to discuss is that there IS a big questionable relationship between the founders of Chair and Card. There's a personal relationship there and since they collaborated to create the world of Empire, which is.... extremely right-wing batshit insane, it's hard to believe that the founders of Chair share NO common views on many of the things expressed there.

Does that make more sense?

They are business partners and have a long standing business relationship. The writing of OSC doesn't portray a lot of anti-gay sentiment and it seems that Chair Entertainment primarily uses OSC for his writing. You seem to be inventing this scenario in your mind where two people work together must share the same views on this one aspect that you are cherry picking.

I infer that Chair and OSC do share common views, and those views are what show up in their products that are a result of their collaboration. You can believe what you want about someone but at some point you have to realize that you can't be open minded about only certain things.
 

Night_Trekker

Member
Jan 27, 2005
17,174
2
1,465
39
South Carolina
No, Shadow Complex looks great. I'll be playing it at some point, and I won't shed a single, progressive tear because it might, in some small way, validate OSC.

In fact, I'll keep buying OSC books because he's a damn good writer! And I'll still shake my head every time I read about his views on homosexuality, which are obviously all about his religious beliefs despite his insistence that they aren't.

FlyinJ said:
So someone who would want to deny the rights of black people to marry shouldn't be considered a "racist". They should be considered a "marriage activist".

Got it.

I have seen nothing to indicate he's a "homophobe", so using that term to describe him is disingenuous, yes. His views on homosexuality (as if his opinion mattered at all, considering he's a straight guy) are painfully ignorant, but I'll need more before I'll say he's afraid of gay people.
 

Grecco

Member
May 3, 2006
21,525
0
0
Coins said:
If Jack Thompson helped make a non-violent puzzle game that was great, and you knew some of the money he made was going to his activities he is commonly known for, would you still buy the game?


Its not the same thing. Its more like if someone made a great game based on the world that Jack Thompson created. And was extremely highly rated by reviewers. And yes people would buy the game.
 

noonan

Neo Member
Jan 15, 2009
7
0
0
Clevinger said:
He's one of many people involved in this project. If you were to find out the views of all involved in projects of your favorite games and movies you'd no doubt find at least a few racist, homophobic, and generally batshit insane or intolerant views.

Peter David actually wrote the script for the game. Isn't he pretty outspoken on gay rights?
 

Justin

Member
Jun 8, 2004
3,276
0
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41
NY:NY
There are a lot of people in here making some big presumptions.

- Chair is in Utah so they all must be Mormons
- OSC wrote some or all of the 50 lines of dialog for chair so all the employees of chair must also hate gays
- Chair and OSC are going to take all the money from the game and give it to some hateful organization
- All Mormons have the same beliefs as OSC.
 

Timber

Member
Dec 2, 2007
3,533
0
0
Wizpig said:
What if he is? the guy's an idiot; but should i not play an awesome game because of that? because you don't want to give money to an already rich homophobe?
Worst thread of the day.
Worst thread? Maybe, but only because of replies like yours. Yes, that is a valid reason not to buy a game. But I guess this falls on deaf ears to people like you who don't give more than an ounce of thought to things, bumble along in their ignorance and are afraid to live in the real world.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Mar 16, 2007
61,123
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I am all for equal rights but boycotting Shadow Complex is a lame idea. Great games should be bought so the guys who made the game have money to make more great games.

That argument rather misses the point and doesn't make sense anyways. The ultimate issue has little to do with whether the game is any good or not. The fact is, at some point, someone in charge chose to associate the game with a controversial figure like OSC, and to give him money. Giving Shadow Complex money is directly financially supporting Card, and as someone that thinks the slippery-slope nonsense arguments that Card likes to spout are idiotic, hateful nonsense, I can't honestly say, "It doesn't matter because the game is good."

It sounds to me like a lot of the arguments I'm seeing are just explaining away Card's involvement to gloss over the fact that people don't really care enough about who or what Card is in order to not buy it.
 

MrHicks

Banned
Dec 2, 2007
7,389
0
0
lol @ all the "i dont care who/what made the game as long as its good ill buy it" people

you guys would buy furniture put together in concentration camps made by Hitler Inc. too?
who cares about his views right ? they make damn good tables

it DOES matter how products are made or whos associated with them for fucks sake
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
Jun 7, 2004
27,487
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Night_Trekker said:
I have seen nothing to indicate he's a "homophobe", so using that term to describe him is disingenuous, yes. His views on homosexuality (as if his opinion mattered at all, considering he's a straight guy) are painfully ignorant, but I'll need more before I'll say he's afraid of gay people.



he's certainly afraid of what they'll do to the country and its future generations... isn't that enough?


MrHicks said:
lol @ all the "i dont care who/what made the game as long as its good ill buy it" people

you guys would buy furniture put together in concentration camps made by Hitler Inc. too?
who cares about his views right ? they make damn good tables

it DOES matter how products are made or whos associated with them for fucks sake


well the Oneida cult made damn good flatware...
 

Wizman23

Banned
Aug 1, 2007
3,457
0
0
Cleveland, OH
This thread is just going to get MORE people to buy the game. All the fence sitters are surely to download at least the demo now after all the controversy in this thread. Then they are going to see how fuck awesome the game is and purchase it.
 

Chrange

Banned
Jul 29, 2007
3,826
0
0
noonan said:
Peter David actually wrote the script for the game. Isn't he pretty outspoken on gay rights?

Can't be. Apparently the whole game was just made by a big ball of gay hate somewhere in Utah. :lol

Honestly people, the accusations against Chair employees are pretty fucking ridiculous. You don't like OSC's views? Great, but what's with the 'they must hate gays too' garbage?

Holy fuck, look up the word 'defamation' some time.

MrHicks said:
lol @ all the "i dont care who/what made the game as long as its good ill buy it" people

you guys would buy furniture put together in concentration camps made by Hitler Inc. too?
who cares about his views right ? they make damn good tables

it DOES matter how products are made or whos associated with them for fucks sake

WHAT? OSC is killing gays in ovens now?

Does the man's hatred know no boundaries?
 

Quixzlizx

Member
Jul 6, 2006
9,922
0
0
Wizpig said:
Wait, why should i boyc-

Ok but wh-

...wut.

What if he is? the guy's an idiot; but should i not play an awesome game because of that? because you don't want to give money to an already rich homophobe?
Worst thread of the day.

Are all of the people saying "I won't boycott the game because it's a good game" intentionally being obtuse, or is the point flying way over their heads? It's not much of a boycott if you wouldn't buy the product anyway.
 
Jan 10, 2009
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You boycott what you think you should. It's that easy and it's that simple.

I thank you for enlightening me about Mr. Card's....uhh...perspective and I'll probably never buy one of his books or mention them in a good light to people like I used to...BUT i think boycotting shadow complex is a stretch. That's my view and it has nothing to do with what you take personally or find too repulsive. That's your call.
 
Jun 7, 2004
21,700
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NM USA
GashPrex said:
well before I buy my next game I want a rundown on each developers political views, PAC contributions and any significant political activity. In fact, I want that for every movie, tv show and any book I ever read.
Indeed. It's been said before, but the art and artist must be considered separate. It's perfectly fine to base decisions to purchase something on any reasoning you choose. Whether it actually results in anything meaningful outside of purchaser's head, well, that's debatable...but it's totally up to the purchaser and that's all that matters. People, however, should not talk shit to someone who couldn't give a fuck about all that other shit and just wants to buy something for its entertainment value (or whatever). Me, I have no regrets about buying the game...and I know all about Card's craziness and the Mormon folks behind it. I don't care...I just want a great game to play.
 

toxicgonzo

Taxes?! Isn't this the line for Metallica?
Jul 16, 2007
3,659
0
0
I never thought much of Shadow Complex 'til I saw this topic.
So I checked it out on IGN and the game looks great.


Thanks, I'm gonna buy it tonight.
 

Mutagenic

Permanent Junior Member
Aug 18, 2007
6,750
0
0
Segata Sanshiro said:
Well, friend, there's a reason why you have that tag and I have a sweet Samurai Pizza Cats tag.

And it's because I used my Saturn royalties to bribe the mods
And because I called a junior out for being a junior. Live and let learn. I am in the market for a Japanese Saturn, though.
 

BobTheFork

Member
Feb 14, 2005
25,070
0
0
41
Denver
MrHicks said:
lol @ all the "i dont care who/what made the game as long as its good ill buy it" people

you guys would buy furniture put together in concentration camps made by Hitler Inc. too?
who cares about his views right ? they make damn good tables

it DOES matter how products are made or whos associated with them for fucks sake
Swedes accepted the gold from Nazis, GOD save you're tained soul if you have any Ikea in your house!!!!!!
Glib, angry opinion are why there can't be much real discussion here.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
49,169
0
1,010
Chrange said:
Can't be. Apparently the whole game was just made by a big ball of gay hate somewhere in Utah. :lol

Honestly people, the accusations against Chair employees are pretty fucking ridiculous. You don't like OSC's views? Great, but what's with the 'they must hate gays too' garbage?

Holy fuck, look up the word 'defamation' some time.

People like acting self righteous and occasionally dusting off the pitchforks and torches.
 

Chrange

Banned
Jul 29, 2007
3,826
0
0
GashPrex said:
well before I buy my next game I want a rundown on each developers political views, PAC contributions and any significant political activity. In fact, I want that for every movie, tv show and any book I ever read.

In the interests of full disclosure, we probably need that for every poster on Neogaf as well. You have to know where what you're reading comes from, after all.

Also known and casual associates, as well as co-workers, because if you work with someone you obviously share their views.
 

Fixed1979

Member
Dec 5, 2008
3,928
0
895
Alberta
MrHicks said:
lol @ all the "i dont care who/what made the game as long as its good ill buy it" people

you guys would buy furniture put together in concentration camps made by Hitler Inc. too?
who cares about his views right ? they make damn good tables

it DOES matter how products are made or whos associated with them for fucks sake

Yay, the Hitler/Nazi argument!
 

honeymustardn

Member
Mar 30, 2009
444
0
0
FromTheFuture said:
What does Gay marriage have to do with this video game? Just cause the guy had a part in it? Give me a break.

I don't really care about the game or the guy, but from reading the OP, it sounds like by buying this game, you are giving money to a notorious homophobe. And only an idiot would do that.
 

Jtrizzy

Member
Jun 20, 2007
8,667
0
0
North Carolina
magicalsoundshower said:
I hope the game comes with a code for some free magic underwear.

:lol :lol :lol

BTW, I totally understand and respect anyone who chooses not to buy this game. Clearly Chair is tied in closely with this guy over multiple games, which leads me to believe they (the higher ups) are probably closely aligned with Card and his terrible views.


This thread is really interesting. I'm in school right now, but my part time job is at an Outback steakhouse, who gives tons of money to conservative causes that I vehimently disagree with. I also order pizza from Dominos, who has given money to the freaks that bomb abortion clinics.
 

Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
Jun 6, 2004
17,268
0
0
kylej said:
Wow those Card quotes are revolting.
Yup.

OSC said:
The dark secret of homosexual society — the one that dares not speak its name — is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally.

It’s that desire for normality, that discontent with perpetual adolescent sexuality, that is at least partly behind this hunger for homosexual “marriage.”

OSC said:
Marriage Is Already Open to Everyone.

In the first place, no law in any state in the United States now or ever has forbidden homosexuals to marry. The law has never asked that a man prove his heterosexuality in order to marry a woman, or a woman hers in order to marry a man.

Any homosexual man who can persuade a woman to take him as her husband can avail himself of all the rights of husbandhood under the law. And, in fact, many homosexual men have done precisely that, without any legal prejudice at all.

Ditto with lesbian women. Many have married men and borne children. And while a fair number of such marriages in recent years have ended in divorce, there are many that have not.

So it is a flat lie to say that homosexuals are deprived of any civil right pertaining to marriage. To get those civil rights, all homosexuals have to do is find someone of the opposite sex willing to join them in marriage.
 

Calcaneus

Member
Jun 25, 2007
10,795
1
1,195
I don't see Shadow Complex coming to the PS3 anytime soon, so I'm automatically out of the question. But I can see why people feel both ways on boycotting it.

One point I'd like to repeat that a lot of people are missing though is, people don't want to boycott this game just because Card is insane, its because he uses his influence and money to help get his insane views enforced and that buying the game would send money to a very active bigot's doorstep. That's what people don't want.

So the "soooo many people who make stuff could feel the same as Card does" point doesn't really work, because "soooo many people" don't have the same means that Card does.
 
Jan 10, 2009
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BobTheFork said:
Swedes accepted the gold from Nazis, GOD save you're tained soul if you have any Ikea in your house!!!!!!
Glib, angry opinion are why there can't be much real discussion here.

No, horrible metaphors and analogies that don't work in the situation that's being discussed or in the quotation that you're commenting on is the reason why real discussion can't be discussed here.

I love your avatar
 

ZZMitch

Member
Jun 14, 2009
10,605
1
0
honeymustardn said:
I don't really care about the game or the guy, but from reading the OP, it sounds like by buying this game, you are giving money to a notorious homophobe. And only an idiot would do that.

There are a hell of a lot of "idiots" on XBLA (probably a little true) and GAF (not as true) then.
 

Fixed1979

Member
Dec 5, 2008
3,928
0
895
Alberta
honeymustardn said:
I don't really care about the game or the guy, but from reading the OP, it sounds like by buying this game, you are giving money to a notorious homophobe. And only an idiot would do that.

That's why I stopped getting high, I couldn't live with all the terrorist attacks.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
May 10, 2006
22,644
1
0
I`ve debated this topic quite heavily in the last week, both sides have good points. However, in the end I`m not going to purchase this game for one fundamental reason:

1. I don`t want to give Card any of my money.

Sucks that I`ll miss out on an awesome game, but there`s plenty more out there to enjoy.
 

IdleRover

Member
Jul 8, 2009
103
0
0
UK
I find this topic to be very interesting.
Being scandinavian I have personally never come across Card's work or any of his personal views.

After reading the post in this thread that actually attempted to bring something to the discussion I don't think I can support this game. I base this on the information that Card is an active and public figure in organisations such as NOM.

I don't think this is a simple issue, since from what I've read the game itself does not contain any of Card's personal views. Which, to me, means that I have no problem with the game itself, but rather with Chair's choice to use Card.

Don't know about most people, but I think that having the information and making a choice based on it is better than not having the information at all. I'm glad the OP brought this to my attention.
 
Dec 3, 2008
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Eh, so Card is a fucking moron, has very little to do with the hard work other people put into the game. Want to boycott Card? Don't read his stuff or, even better, ignore him altogether.
 

Ninja Moomin

Banned
Dec 8, 2008
3,131
0
0
i am disgusted by this man.

1 - i will no longer buy shadow complex

2 - i will never buy a product from epic again for working with a public figure who promotes such utter hateful crap

3 - my copies of gears 2, gears, and unreal are going to be traded in.


For an educated man to have such an opinion in the age we currently live in is sickening. As a gay man i cannot give my money to any company who see's value in the sorts of people who would bring more inequality to our world.

Sorry epic, but i cannot buy your products while you make this man rich.

people can have their opinion... fine... but this guy has been on record - basically lobbying for hatred.

it saddens me but i will not be able to bring myself to touch their products now.
 

MacBosse

Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,210
0
0
Wow ... anyways, been playing Shadow Complex to death today. It's an awesome game, and I recommend everyone who enjoys good games to buy it.

There are much much better ways to deal with this Card fellow than to try to boycott this game.

Ah well ... back to the game!

Edit poster above is going loonie. :lol
 

MikeOfTheLivingDead

Grapetastic!
Apr 17, 2007
2,126
0
0
Calcaneus said:
One point I'd like to repeat that a lot of people are missing though is, people don't want to boycott this game just because Card is insane, its because he uses his influence and money to help get his insane views enforced and that buying the game would send money to a very active bigot's doorstep. That's what people don't want.

I don't think this is lost on anyone. What you are missing is that people just don't give a crap.