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Should we boycott Shadow Complex?
- Thread starter Coins
- Start date
FunnyBunny
Member
minus_273 said:
You say most Americans oppose same sex marriage, which I do not necessarily agree with.
Civil Unions are marriages by a different name; I see only 33% of Americans truly opposing legal recognition for gay and lesbian couples. Orson Scott Card is among that third.
In reference to the post about Card's political beliefs being the single metric for making a purchasing decision; it does seem like a big decision to make based on a small royalty. For some, it's worth it. I came into this thread on the fence about Shadow Complex and considering buying it. But I think I have talked myself (with the help of others, of course) into not buying it.
Coins said:
obama sets the actually federal policy banning gay marriage. state gay marriage isnt even real marriage since it doesn't have recognition in most jurisdictions and most of all does not have any recognition for immigration and taxes. you could have gotten married in MA or CA and it would just be symbolic. you non-american spouse would still be deported.
Nothing OSC did set federal gay marriage policy. Obama is the one who does that. yet you supported him.
you seem like you are angry and need a someone/something to lash out at rather than at the actual source of your peoblems. Shadow complex is your excuse.
stupei said:
That's ridiculous. You think the people opposed to gay rights wouldn't be just as happy to condemn atheists? President George H. W. Bush said that he doesn't even think that atheists can he considered valid citizens, and he was and is hardly alone in expresing views like that. In polls of people asking "who would you never ever vote for?" atheists typically rank #1, well ahead of gays and Muslims.
FunnyBunny
Member
KHarvey16 said:
I won't say that is simply what Orson Scott Card is. But, he is openly and passionately against same-sex marriage and homosexuality as a whole.
brendanrfoley said:
a civil union is not marriage. you cant have a civil union with a guy from another country and have him get a greencard/citizenship. this was a point someone raised about OSC earlier not knowing that he had nothing do to with that. those rights are controlled by obama.
brendanrfoley said:
He is against gay marriage, but he's also in support of things like anti-sodomy laws which are backward and stupid. The man is not simply a person with a political opinion. He's a bigot and anyone choosing to not give him any of their money has every right to do so. It's a personal decision and the amount of criticism thrown around by ignorant fucks in here is saddening.
FunnyBunny
Member
minus_273 said:
Obama doesn't make law; Congress does. Oh, and gay couples in Massachusetts can file their taxes jointly on a state level - so the marriage is certainly very real.
BTW, don't take the clarifications personally. I love we're having this conversation and don't want you to feel as if I'm targeting you.
FunnyBunny
Member
KHarvey16 said:
I think you do - but you realize we agree, right?
Combining such sensitive issues with an open game discussion board isn't a good idea at all. As you can see from a number of replies people just aren't clued up to start discussing topics like this.
If anybody feels strongly enough about OSC's involvement with the game that it becomes and issue then by all means boycott. The rest of us however will continue to play the game for what it truly is - A quality metroidvania style game with no mention of the said issue.
If anybody feels strongly enough about OSC's involvement with the game that it becomes and issue then by all means boycott. The rest of us however will continue to play the game for what it truly is - A quality metroidvania style game with no mention of the said issue.
Mercury Fred said:
Small and cynical part of me wonders if it would get more attention on GAF if I mentioned that we're women.
ethelred said:
I'm familiar with George H. W. Bush's statements, actually. It still remains that you never see people who argue that marriage is a religious union then extend their argument to its logical conclusion. My point was more that the argument that marriage is a "religious" institution is a farce. Which religion? Members of any religious group or those who are explicitly not religious are all allowed to get married in America. Marriage is a legal institution when it comes to every single group except for homosexuals, then suddenly it's all about what the dominant religious belief is. Honestly wasn't trying to participate in some kind of "more oppressed than you are!" Olympics.
.Felix Lighter
Member
This is one of those threads that just goes on forever. One side trying to convince the other, but all that happens is each side just seems to get more and more entrenched and the arguments become more and more ridiculous and inflammatory.
Do what you want; it's your money. If you don't feel comfortable purchasing the game because of it's association to this writer, then don't buy it. If you want the game and the association doesn't bother you then just buy it. I just don't see where this argument is going. I don't see anyone's mind being changed one way or the other. This obviously isn't a black and white issue. Buying the game doesn't automatically make you an immoral homophobe and boycotting the game isn't groundless and stupid. It's a personal decision and I'm not seeing a clear right or wrong here but a lot of people seem to be arguing as if there is.
Debates are great when each side listens to the other and are willing to concede some ground. When both sides are completely entrenched in their position and are just cherry picking weak arguments to attack and ignoring any strong points, you just end up rehashing the same points over and over and over again.
Do what you want; it's your money. If you don't feel comfortable purchasing the game because of it's association to this writer, then don't buy it. If you want the game and the association doesn't bother you then just buy it. I just don't see where this argument is going. I don't see anyone's mind being changed one way or the other. This obviously isn't a black and white issue. Buying the game doesn't automatically make you an immoral homophobe and boycotting the game isn't groundless and stupid. It's a personal decision and I'm not seeing a clear right or wrong here but a lot of people seem to be arguing as if there is.
Debates are great when each side listens to the other and are willing to concede some ground. When both sides are completely entrenched in their position and are just cherry picking weak arguments to attack and ignoring any strong points, you just end up rehashing the same points over and over and over again.
Ogrekiller
Member
SmokyDave said:
That stupid threads deserve stupid replies
KilgoreTrout
Banned
Ogrekiller said:
Stupid GAFers deserve to be on a stupid GAFers list.
Oh wait...
drakesfortune
Directions: Pull String For Uninformed Rant
Coins said:
He's publicly spoken out against it. He's the most powerful man in the world, and he has publicly spoken out against gay marriage. I'm guessing you voted for him. So again, you voted for a man who has more power than anyone, who has gone out in public and said gay marriage should not be legal in America. That's actively campaigning against gay marriage in a MUCH more profound way than this guy who is tangentially related to this game. What Obama has done is far more significant and harmful than anything this other guy has done, and one is okay to vote for, and one should be publicly shamed and boycotted?
It doesn't make any sense. You say people don't vote on one issue, then why should the game be judged because of that one issue, which isn't represented in the game, mentioned in the game? The game has NOTHING to do with gay marriage. Obama has everything to do with blocking and speaking out against, and even actively campaigning against gay marriage. I realize it's a complicated thing, but actively supporting and voting for a political candidate that has done more harm on the issue than anyone else could do, as Obama has, seems hypocritical. It's even more significant that he's campaigned against gay marriage AND he's a very liberal guy. A conservative doing that is to be expected, but the leader of the liberals doing it is vastly more significant, because he effectively puts up a road block on the issue. Obama's campaign against gay marriage is far more significant and important. Period.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
This thread is absoloutely dizzying.
drakesfortune said:
I did vote for him. The issue was important to me but not as important as us trouncing around the globe getting our young men and women killed for no reason.
drakesfortune said:
Youre comparing voting for the POTUS to buying a video game. You fail.
drakesfortune said:
Obama doesnt have a campaign against gay marriage. He publicly said he was against it which is his opinion. He isnt trying to stop states from legalizing it. I also feel that when Obama doesnt have to worry about reelection in 2012 that we will see his true feelings on the subject come to fruition.
Coins said:
No offense dude but this shit is just going around and around circle's. At first you had a good point and a good topic for discussion but now its run its course and really needs to be closed.
Things settle down and then bam another post comes along kicking off the same replies we have had since page 1. What started as OSC has turned into Cheap child labour and the Obama conspiracy.
You have made your point as have others but sadly there's no hive mind here and people will continue to do whats suits them best.
Maybe I should just GTFO :lol
MikeOfTheLivingDead
Grapetastic!
Coins said:
And what do you think those true feelings toward gay marriage are?
drakesfortune
Directions: Pull String For Uninformed Rant
Coins said:
Ahh BINGO! The nugget I was looking for. You don't believe that his campaign against gay marriage is real. You believe he said what he needed to to get elected.
Now you understand why conservatives don't trust the guy and why he's losing independents in droves. We all know he's pro gay marriage. Yet, he stands there, unblinking and with all the seriousness that he shows on every issue, and tells the world he's against it.
We all know he's pro universal health care, yet he stands there and pretends that ObamaCare isn't a step in the process of his real goal, the destruction of private health insurance. And on down the list it goes.
This is why his poll numbers are sinking. He tried to be everything to everybody, which is easy as a candidate, and impossible as a president. The things he's saying no long pass the credibility smell test. You now see why people are rising up against the health bill, because we don't believe him when he says they just want a little competition for private insurance. They want to kill private insurance (which is very bad in my book) and they want to legalize gay marriage (which is very good in my book). Yet they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes on the issue, and they are not speaking straightly with people. If it were Bush doing this, you'd call it a lie. I'll leave that judgment for others though, I definitely don't think Obama is being straight with people on gay marriage, universal health care, cap and tax, and whole host of other issues. YOU don't even believe he's giving us the straight dope on his gay marriage stance, and I would guess most people who voted him think similarly.
Red Blaster
Member
drakesfortune said:
Welp, I guess it's a good thing that no one in this country gives a flying fuck about what conservatives have to say these days.
Yoritomo said:
Of course it is. The topic is about whether or not your personal convictions regarding bigotry are enough to keep you from contributing monetarily to a bigot. Some fall into that category and others do not. Some appear too childish to understand the conversation.
SmokyDave said:
I think you actually have the answer in your second paragraph, but in reverse.
The thread was started to ask whether or not to boycott a game for what some people see as a petty reason, and others see as important as fighting segregation. So, the "OP is stupid" crowd lash back by saying that "Yes, I will actually buy 45 copies of the game so screw you, who are you to tell me what I can and can't buy and play?"
IMO, it is mostly kids on both extremes of the argument here, with the adults trying to make peace and failing horribly. :lol
KHarvey16 said:
I haven't read anything by Card in years since his determined shift to align his fictional Universes with the worst parts of the Bush Doctrine. He is/was a good writer with a talent for characterization, however I can't stomach his political opinion in the least. I fail to see how boycotting this game based on his opinion of gay marriage would accomplish anything. Given the hand other people have had in it's creation.
I admit I was being disingenuous, but the entire argument to boycott the game for the reasoning in the original post is specious, as has already been pointed out by many other posters in this fine thread...
Right. Don't buy his books then and contribute money (a useful amount) to something that CAN make a difference.KHarvey16 said:
Don't pretend that by not giving him your 15 cents will somehow make a difference in all this. You can stand up for civil rights all you want, buy you're not doing anything through boycotting this game.
If you're going to stand up for a cause, try actually doing something useful.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
As someone who is currently changing status to a resident through marriage to a citizen, I can sympathize with your predicament. But that is an immigration issue that is completely unrelated to whether the state of California recognizes gay marriage or not.stupei said:
Big-E said:
I know, I know
. Just one(two) more....Yoritomo said:
IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT HIS OPINION OF GAY MARRIAGE.
Jesus FUCKING christ, read. The man is a bigot, plain and simple. Have you even bothered to peruse the very things he has said on the issue? Distilling his views as anti-gay marriage is exactly like describing a racist as simply anti-interracial marriage. No shit he's anti-interracial marriage, he's a racist and that sort of goes a long with it.
Some people don't want to give their money to a bigot. This is not calculus.
dark10x said:
Why the fuck is the acceptability of something determined by it's ability to affect substantial change? Would you give $1 to a guy preaching intolerance? I wouldn't, and it's got fuck all to do with affecting change. I might give a shit about where my money goes and unlike the vast majority of cases, it's clear this time. I can make that choice. Anyone can.
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
Let me say first of all that I'm against bigotry in any form and I support the idea that LGBT people should have the same right to marry that we have.. A lot of people were involved in making this game whose initials aren't OSC, and I haven't noticed any implied expression of his views regarding same-sex marriage, anti-sodomy laws, et cetera in the game. I just don't see the point in a boycott.