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[DeBurgo]

Does anyone see this as positive thing?

I think it depends on the source material.

There's some stuff that's epitomizes the culture it comes from, and would be horribly mangled by localization. Most videogames don't fall under that category... but it is honestly hard to tell which ones do (and there are a few, though extremely rare), due to the fact that there are armies of nerds out there trying to defend the integrity of even the lowliest of dating sims.

And in fact I'd say videogames have an opportunity to be localized very well as compared to a lot of other media, since the core of the game is often the same regardless of what language it is in. They're not like movies where it's not quite the same experience if you subtitle it or dub it, or a book where it's pretty much all language and if you re-write too much of it you might as well be writing your own damn book.

 

[soco]

Maybe you had insider information, but I don't remember fans at the time knowing what sort of time budgets Woolsey had to operate on. The time most fans were anti-Woolsey started years before FF7 was even released, so I'm not sure what the point of calling out younger fans is, other than to show how OG you are. If people had actually known details about the time and cart size limitations, I doubt there ever would have been that much criticism.

Any fan criticizing the translation for that should've been able to piece together the type size restrictions at the least. These were clear from so many games of the time.

 

[Cep]

Are you implying that localization more often than not wrecks the work of the original creators?

That was oddly worded on my part (no sarcasm was meant).

I was actually agreeing with you and saying that in addition to bankrupting the company, overly-strict translation probably ruin the work because following the letter and not the spirit can be disastrous, especially since there may not be direct analogues for particularly complex concepts

Again sorry (stupid English Language).

 

[noquarter]

I'm all for "Woolseyism's." All I really want to for the general meaning to come through. As long as the story doesn't take place in Japan, make it so I can relate. I really wish they would give the translator's a space though to describe what they have done, maybe a page or two in the manual. They do this in books, so don't know why they wouldn't do this in games.

 

[randomkid]

Woolsey's work was great, I still remember being amazed in FF3 when Kefka busted out the "you guys sound like a self-help booklet" line. A straight up hilarious line, I have goofy memories of showing it off to neighbors and family members, it was so unheard of back then for an RPG to have that kind of intentional comedy.

It must have been a Gamefan interview or something because somehow I got it in my head in the pre-internet days that Woolsey had left out half of the text in FF3 and Chrono Trigger. Because of that dumb misinformed view I had a bit of resentment towards his localizations back in the day, despite actually enjoying many of the lines in his games. Years later I came across the horrific fan "translations" that purported to restore all the brilliant missing text and realized how terrible things could have been if someone as talented as Woolsey hadn't been around.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

Does anyone know if Tales of Vesperia was all that exact? I had this moment playing that game where I wondered why Final Fantasy games couldn't be as fluid and natural. I figured it was because someone took Tales of Vesperia as an idea and not a bible.

AFAIK Vesperia wasn't that different at all. The English version was actually developed along side the Japanese version, and as a result there wasn't really anything obscure to change. It's just written better than most Final Fantasy games.

 

[starsky]

I prefer translation where the dialogue doesn't become awkward, but I'm sure I'll find as great enjoyment in reading some lulzy direct translation. How else could we have meme such as "All your base are belong to us" if all the games were translated perfectly. So win win.

 

[Cowie]

Wait, are we done talking about the last two persona games? I want to talk more about the persona games =(

they're such a peculiar case of localization. It's almost as if all of it stems from Atlus deciding that all of their intended audience were at a certain level of "weeaboo"(and I mean this term as positively as possible, and include myself in it freely.) So some things end up staying fairly Japanese, and others get changed for the local audience.

Retaining honorifics was kind of a bizarre choice, but if you accept the 'Look, this game is anime as fuck, we're just going to cater to anime fans' approach, I guess that's fine. Additionally, certain characters calling you 'Senpai' all the time is a actually a pretty good cop-out for voice acting in a game that lets you name the main character. But what's really weird about it is the fact that while they kept honorifics in, they dropped the 'addressing people by their last name unless you're on familiar terms with them' thing. Was that just too Japanese for an audience you're already assuming has some level of familiarity with the culture?

And then there's the quizzes. Persona 4 had it right (outside of food preparation iirc), but the classroom questions in Persona 3 are one of the most glaring examples of a poor localization choice I can think of. Questions about Japanese history, literature, and grammar? What? Most of the Japanese language questions were pretty simple, which makes me think they were probably questions about english in the original, and they pulled a 'well, let's just make all the english japanese and all the japanese english, and call it translated!' Which is a totally unfair assumption. English speaking study of Japanese isn't even close to as common as the opposite -- I'd think Spanish would be a better substitute in America, honestly. But the point remains, I had to google basically every question I came across. (Honestly, I googled more than I should have in Persona 4 as well, but at least that was shit I should have been embarrassed not to know, as opposed to shit I should be embarrassed to know)

And of course this all begs the big question.. if you're going to leave it so Japanese.. why even bother dubbing it? Or if you insist on it (which is fine, P4 had a good dub anyway), why not at least leave the option for Japanese voices in? I don't want it to be a dub vs sub argument because that's not what this is about and nobody cares about anybody else's opinion on it. But I'm just confused at their image of a fan who demands honorifics, but wants them spoken awkwardly in English.

 

[Zoc]

Let's not confuse one thing for another. Bringing out a game is different than delivering a decent translation.

I think there are several different issues at work here, and people are confusing them such that to be for one thing means you must be against another:

Cultural localization - I'm against it simply because I'm not an idiot. I understand that cultures have differences, sometimes significantly so, and I feel that attempts to cover up these differences are offensive, both to the original culture and to my intelligence. I don't believe we need to turn meat buns into donuts because I won't "understand" meat buns and I refuse to be talked down to because someone else will.

Language - Unfortunately, I do not have the time nor the inclination to learn every language on the planet. It is because of this that some level of localization must be made so that I can understand what is going on. I understand that the market being what it is, some concessions must be made in areas that I am otherwise okay with (like subtitles). However, changes that affect the quality, tone, and virtue of the work are unacceptable to me. Hire some good writers, don't assume you are one. (ie Neil Gaiman was hired to do the English language script of Princess Mononoke)

Pop culture references - A lot of Japanese games make references to things that are simply beyond explanation to an unfamiliar audience. It's surprisingly common for a Japanese tv personality to be parodied in a game. I think that it is possible to convey the nature of the reference without replacing it with a different one. Pop culture references are not interchangeable. You can't just replace a Shigeru Miyamoto reference with a cliffyb one.

Honorifics - I think this belongs in the cultural aspect, but it has taken on a life of its own. In general, I'm in favor of removing them when applicable. They rarely convey social information that couldn't otherwise be shown. The main exception for this, however, is Japanese schools which have a very precise social order that is usually best preserved. Luckily, there aren't a bunch of Japanese high school games that come out here that don't involve hermaphrodite incest, so it's really just the Persona games.

Censorship - Honestly, I curse the ESRB for making such commonplace things like alcohol and smoking into such a big deal that publishers feel they must treat us all like children to get a teen rating. For god's sake, most of the people drinking and smoking ARE teenagers.

In general, I think it is possible to deliver a localization which is accepted by mainstream gamers without insulting their intelligence or other cultures. I think there are acceptable losses during the localization process, but I feel that some decisions are made by thinking that gamers are stupid, ignorant dickheads - which is true, but I think we should make gaming something they have to rise to meet rather than lower gaming to their level.

This is the best post in the thread.

In theory, I have no objection to more extensive tinkering with the original, as long as the new product is well-written and entertaining in its own right. The only thing is that every time I've seen something that's been extensively tinkered with, I thought it was awful. Those Woolsey lines about "spoony bard" and "son of a submariner" sounded stupid in their own right, regardless of their relationship to the original. I don't give a fuck if Woolsey did a better job than anyone else under difficult circumstances. He was still bad at his job.

 

[Mandoric]

Most of the Japanese language questions were pretty simple, which makes me think they were probably questions about english in the original, and they pulled a 'well, let's just make all the english japanese and all the japanese english, and call it translated!' Which is a totally unfair assumption.

Fair or no, it's accurate. The Japanese version was full of high school Japanese and simple English, IIRC.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

This is the best post in the thread.

In theory, I have no objection to more extensive tinkering with the original, as long as the new product is well-written and entertaining in its own right. The only thing is that every time I've seen something that's been extensively tinkered with, I thought it was awful. Those Woolsey lines about "spoony bard" and "son of a submariner" sounded stupid in their own right, regardless of their relationship to the original. I don't give a fuck if Woolsey did a better job than anyone else under difficult circumstances. He was still bad at his job.

This is the worst post in the thread.

 

[Pureauthor]

This is the best post in the thread.

In theory, I have no objection to more extensive tinkering with the original, as long as the new product is well-written and entertaining in its own right. The only thing is that every time I've seen something that's been extensively tinkered with, I thought it was awful. Those Woolsey lines about "spoony bard" and "son of a submariner" sounded stupid in their own right, regardless of their relationship to the original. I don't give a fuck if Woolsey did a better job than anyone else under difficult circumstances. He was still bad at his job.

Ace Attorney series.

 

[Hours Left]

It's easy to push it too far in either direction. Too literal and it has no flow, too liberal and it loses it's original meaning and is disrespectful to the source material.

I generally lean towards wanting companies to stay as true as possible to the original game, but I understand that sometime it's just not feasible. (The character name puns in the Ace Attorney series for example.) But companies like Atlus USA have proven that a faithful script can still be fresh and interesting.

The reality is that some things have to be changed, but many things are changed unnecessarily. The Japanese and English languages can never be synonymous because of the vast difference in their structure, but some localization firms take far too many liberties in trying to make a game more "accessible".

The general populous is far more culturally aware than ever before and I think sometimes companies underestimate the ability of people to be able to adapt to new cultural experiences.

 

[Pandaman]

if im entertained and ignorant, i dont mind. If i have no investment in the original story there's nothing to stop me from enjoying a rewrite. :\

but then again, would i want a rozen maiden without Desu~? probably not...

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Well, that was 4Kids. Everything 4Kids has ever done was complete crap. I thought that everyone acknowledged that fact by now?:lol

The openings and V/A they did for Pokemon was good enough.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

um excuse me but "team" does not express the original meaning, fixed

:lol God, EmCee.

 

[Regulus Tera]

This is why the Chrono Trigger DS port is teh suck.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

This is the best post in the thread.

In theory, I have no objection to more extensive tinkering with the original, as long as the new product is well-written and entertaining in its own right. The only thing is that every time I've seen something that's been extensively tinkered with, I thought it was awful. Those Woolsey lines about "spoony bard" and "son of a submariner" sounded stupid in their own right, regardless of their relationship to the original. I don't give a fuck if Woolsey did a better job than anyone else under difficult circumstances. He was still bad at his job.

Woolsey didn't write 'spoony bard', that was the "Disobeying me? No, I don't." guy who did a mediocre job with FFIV/II. Personally, I think 'son of a submariner' is pretty funny, and quite memorable, but I can see how people without a sense of ha-ha might take umbrage with it.

What I will not agree to see your point of view on is your assertion that someone at the top of his field for his time is somehow bad at his job. There was literally no one better at the time, and he was leagues ahead of virtually all of his contemporaries. If that's your idea of doing a bad job, I'd love to see how you carry out your job, Superman.

 

[Red Scarlet]

I thought they were great. Don't have a problem with them today, either.

Yeah, Chrono Trigger sure was ruined by the fact that Woolsey changed Soy Sauce, Vinegar, and whoever-the-fuck to Ozzy, Slash and Flea.

Mayonnaise.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Writers are writers. Translators are translators. Never the twain shall meet.

Increasingly, translations are becoming less and less islands and more and more part of a larger intellectual property. If you take liberties with something that seems small in a game, it may be more significant in the sequel. Name something stupid in a Pokemon game and it retains the stupid name in all the sequels, cartoons, toys, t-shirts, and whatever else they come out with. The only way to maintain that integrity between sequels/spin-offs is to not ascribe intent and meaning that wasn't originally there.

I don't give a crap that some retarded fourteen year old thought "spoony bard" was funny. I care about the integrity and virtue of the work itself. I've never thought that appealing to the lowest common denominator was an appropriate course of action, and I certainly don't think that about gaming, something which is personally very important to me.

See, I don't get what's everyone's problem with "spoony bard":

spoon·y   [spoo-nee] Show IPA
–adjective,spoon·i·er, spoon·i·est. Informal.
1.
foolishly or sentimentally amorous.
2.
foolish; silly.

It's a perfect insult for Edward that retains the PG nature of the localisation. Did you seriously want Tellah to scream "YOU SON OF A BITCH I'LL RIP YOUR ARSE A NEW ONE" or whatever it was in the original Japanese?

 

[ThatObviousUser]

 

[xs_mini_neo]

What I will not agree to see your point of view on is your assertion that someone at the top of his field for his time is somehow bad at his job. There was literally no one better at the time, and he was leagues ahead of virtually all of his contemporaries. If that's your idea of doing a bad job, I'd love to see how you carry out your job, Superman.

It was then Segata burst into song on the joys of praising Woolsey on a gaming forum.

"I love you!" cried Sanshiro as he rehashed an old argument in the name of the Lord of English Localizations.

Woolsey pat Segata on the head while exchanging googly eyes with a touch of ecstacy.

"You are right, Segata, I was the only one on earth capable of translating Japanese to english in 1994." Woolsey recalled. "It was the beginning of my fine legend. I knew that one day I would be misunderstood, people would hate me...and then....they would begin to understand how glorious I truly am. They would ponder the meaning of a Submariner's existence...and they would cry weeaboo at any who dared to question my Holy Localization Power. They would hold my Blessed Translations in the air as the epitome of RPG Localizations.... and a cold, black wind would blow over those filthy, crepe-eating non-believers with the revelation that this is as good as localizations will forever be. Suicide will be their only logical conclusion, for they have no faith in my Holy Localization Power. Filthly, common sense-loving FOOLS! Their fate lies in a hell reserved for Pokemon villians. NOTHING MORE!"

"Beautiful. I just get you." swooned Sanshiro.

Ethelred walks in holding RevenantKioku in his arms.

"Tell us more, GOD." ethelred demanded.

"Ah! I see your fine taste has lead you to me. Come and drinketh from my Holy Elixir."

"OH GOD YES" RevenantKioku boldly fellates.

 

[Zoc]

What I will not agree to see your point of view on is your assertion that someone at the top of his field for his time is somehow bad at his job. There was literally no one better at the time, and he was leagues ahead of virtually all of his contemporaries. If that's your idea of doing a bad job, I'd love to see how you carry out your job, Superman.

This is some kind of logical fallacy, but I can't remember the name of it just now. Just because you're better than someone who's awful doesn't make you good.

But I take it back, in any case. I went too far by saying he was bad, his work is just not my cup of tea.

 

[Atrophis]

It was then Segata burst into song on the joys of praising Woolsey on a gaming forum.

"I love you!" cried Sanshiro as he rehashed an old argument in the name of the Lord of English Localizations.

Woolsey pat Segata on the head while exchanging googly eyes with a touch of ecstacy.

"You are right, Segata, I was the only one on earth capable of translating Japanese to english in 1994." Woolsey recalled. "It was the beginning of my fine legend. I knew that one day I would be misunderstood, people would hate me...and then....they would begin to understand how glorious I truly am. They would ponder the meaning of a Submariner's existence...and they would cry weeaboo at any who dared to question my Holy Localization Power. They would hold my Blessed Translations in the air as the epitome of RPG Localizations.... and a cold, black wind would blow over those filthy, crepe-eating non-believers with the revelation that this is as good as localizations will forever be. Suicide will be their only logical conclusion, for they have no faith in my Holy Localization Power. Filthly, common sense-loving FOOLS! Their fate lies in a hell reserved for Pokemon villians. NOTHING MORE!"

"Beautiful. I just get you." swooned Sanshiro.

Ethelred walks in holding RevenantKioku in his arms.

"Tell us more, GOD." ethelred demanded.

"Ah! I see your fine taste has lead you to me. Come and drinketh from my Holy Elixir."

"OH GOD YES" RevenantKioku boldly fellates.

Weaboo

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

This is some kind of logical fallacy, but I can't remember the name of it just now. Just because you're better than someone who's awful doesn't make you good.

But I take it back, in any case. I went too far by saying he was bad, his work is just not my cup of tea.

Well yeah, it depends on relativity, but how else do you gauge whether or not someone is doing a good job? If Woolsey was doing a bad job, what was the dipshit who translated Breath of Fire 2 doing? It's grading on a curve, but the guy's translations could more or less pass today without anyone blinking an eye, and I think that's a pretty damn good test for how well he did his work.

As for xs mini neo, Woolsey obviously wasn't the only person capable of translating Japanese to English, but if there were so many fucking people capable of and willing to do it, where the fuck were they? Acting like they were too good for gaming work, that's what. And it's because of guys like Woolsey and Ireland that things got better at all. Otherwise, the standards would still be in the toilet.

But hey, you got me with that disturbing fanfic. Feel free to go home and tell your love pillow that you burned Segata real bad today before you deposit your lonely sperm into it.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

It was then Segata burst into song on the joys of praising Woolsey on a gaming forum.

"I love you!" cried Sanshiro as he rehashed an old argument in the name of the Lord of English Localizations.

Woolsey pat Segata on the head while exchanging googly eyes with a touch of ecstacy.

"You are right, Segata, I was the only one on earth capable of translating Japanese to english in 1994." Woolsey recalled. "It was the beginning of my fine legend. I knew that one day I would be misunderstood, people would hate me...and then....they would begin to understand how glorious I truly am. They would ponder the meaning of a Submariner's existence...and they would cry weeaboo at any who dared to question my Holy Localization Power. They would hold my Blessed Translations in the air as the epitome of RPG Localizations.... and a cold, black wind would blow over those filthy, crepe-eating non-believers with the revelation that this is as good as localizations will forever be. Suicide will be their only logical conclusion, for they have no faith in my Holy Localization Power. Filthly, common sense-loving FOOLS! Their fate lies in a hell reserved for Pokemon villians. NOTHING MORE!"

"Beautiful. I just get you." swooned Sanshiro.

Ethelred walks in holding RevenantKioku in his arms.

"Tell us more, GOD." ethelred demanded.

"Ah! I see your fine taste has lead you to me. Come and drinketh from my Holy Elixir."

"OH GOD YES" RevenantKioku boldly fellates.

shut thef
fuck up

 

[Y2Kev]

Oh man he's unbanned again? Rocket-Dan wasn't even this persistent, and they were much more kawaii desu. I mean "boldly fellates"?

 

[Scythesurge]

Woolsey is the freakin man. He worked under ridiculous restraints and produced a product worthy of being my favorite game (Chrono Trigger). I appreciate the literal translation for what it is, but the localization is what I'll always remember.

 

[Haunted]

What was the Japanese original/equivalent to son of a submariner anyway?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

What was the Japanese original/equivalent to son of a submariner anyway?

Chikushoume, which more or less translates to "son of a bitch", which there was no way Nintendo was going to allow them to use.

Which is setting aside the fact that swears in Japanese have entirely different meanings and strengths than their English equivalents. For example, it is not uncommon for a five year old boy to say "kuso" (which means "shit") and not get anything more than a stern look from his mother. If you directly translate Japanese swears to their literal English equivalents, you have utterly failed to capture the intended meaning of that dialogue.

 

[Haunted]

Chikushoume, which more or less translates to "son of a bitch", which there was no way Nintendo was going to allow them to use.

Which is setting aside the fact that swears in Japanese have entirely different meanings and strengths than their English equivalents. For example, it is not uncommon for a five year old boy to say "kuso" (which means "shit") and not get anything more than a stern look from his mother. If you directly translate Japanese swears to their literal English equivalents, you have utterly failed to capture the intended meaning of that dialogue.

Ah thanks, figured as much.

I've seen kuso translated with damn, which is probably comparable on the international curse severity scale™.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Ah thanks, figured as much.

I've seen kuso translated with damn, which is probably comparable on the international curse severity scale™.

Indeed. But fails to be literal, so now xs mini neo is going to write a creepy fanfic about you while he angrily masturbates into a sock.

 

[Pureauthor]

This is why the [I]Chrono Trigger[/I] DS port is teh suck.[/QUOTE]

I would take that as evidence that it is Marle who sucks.

Because she totally does.

 

[evangd007]

Here to agree and say that Woolseyisms made certain games comedic masterpieces and, as shown by Monster Hunter 3, still does.

I'm pretty sure whoever wrote the captain's dialog is a recently-ex or current fansubber, there's just way too many obscure shoutouts and callouts going on in what words he leaves untranslated and how he explains them.

MH 3 was done by 8-4. They also did the translation for White Knight Chronicles whose translation I heard was very entertaining as well. GAF mod John TV works for 8-4. Kudos to him and those on his team.

 

[Tathanen]

Why are people in this thread pretending the only options are a heavily-edited script full of various silly things that have nothing to do with the original, and a sama/kun/kawaii-laden fansub wank-off? Are you all brain damaged? The Chrono Trigger DS port was neither of these things, it was just a good standard translation that localized successfully without sounding like an episode of Darkwing Duck or a hastily-subbed episode of Death Note.

I think Woolsey is fine for the time period, it's significant historically in that he broke down some walls, and that's fine. But there's nothing wrong with wanting things to sound a bit more "sophisticated" these days. And that doesn't mean a literal translation, nor does it mean a dry and humorless translation. I thought FFXII had an absolutely fabulous localization, and I'm sure much of its period-speak was artificially inserted. That said, it was inserted in a convincing manner that well-suited the world, so Success.

 

[Cowie]

Fair or no, it's accurate. The Japanese version was full of high school Japanese and simple English, IIRC.

You're missing my point, though. Asking a Japanese player to answer simple English questions is completely different from asking a Western player to answer simple Japanese questions. What percentage of Japanese Students study at least some English? Compare that with the percentage of American Students that will ever even attend a school that offers Japanese. If the questions didn't matter that's one thing, but they have a slight impact on gameplay. If just for the US, asking Spanish questions is a much more reasonable assumption -- although it would seem a bit out of place.

Regardless, It's a case where accuracy needs to be sacrificed for the gamer's enjoyment/the game's playability.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Why are people in this thread pretending the only options are a heavily-edited script full of various silly things that have nothing to do with the original, and a sama/kun/kawaii-laden fansub wank-off? Are you all brain damaged? The Chrono Trigger DS port was neither of these things, it was just a good standard translation that localized successfully without sounding like an episode of Darkwing Duck or a hastily-subbed episode of Death Note.

I think Woolsey is fine for the time period, it's significant historically in that he broke down some walls, and that's fine. But there's nothing wrong with wanting things to sound a bit more "sophisticated" these days. And that doesn't mean a literal translation, nor does it mean a dry and humorless translation. I thought FFXII had an absolutely fabulous localization, and I'm sure much of its period-speak was artificially inserted. That said, it was inserted in a convincing manner that well-suited the world, so Success.

If it's wrong to sound like an episode of Darkwing Duck, I don't ever want to be right.

 

[Zoe]

If just for the US, asking Spanish questions is a much more reasonable assumption -- although it would seem a bit out of place.

Though there are many people in the US who never learn Spanish either.

 

[Pureauthor]

If it's wrong to sound like an episode of Darkwing Duck, I don't ever want to be right.

I submit that many games would be improved by the inclusion of the line 'I am the terror that flaps in the night' somewhere.

 

[Zissou]

Fair or no, it's accurate. The Japanese version was full of high school Japanese and simple English, IIRC.

I agree with the others, it's inaccurate. English is a mandatory subject in junior high and high school here. In the U.S., I had to take a single year of a foreign language of my choice in high school, that's it. It's not the same thing.

 

[Azure J]

If it's wrong to sound like an episode of Darkwing Duck, I don't ever want to be right.

+1. In the end, I just want to be entertained. Whether it be from a direct translation, abstract translation, or Woosleyism, if it gets the job done then I'm good. The problem is that when you look at one vs the rest, most times, the Woosleyisms & localizations have a higher chance of being both entertaining and consistent.

 

[Zoe]

I agree with the others, it's inaccurate. English is a mandatory subject in junior high and high school here. In the U.S., I had to take a single year of a foreign language of my choice in high school, that's it. It's not the same thing.

The problem is there isn't a proper US equivalent because foreign language curricula don't follow any standards. They either had to keep it as a language exercise (don't all weeaboo want to learn Japanese anyway?) or completely change it to a different subject.

 

[Zissou]

The problem is there isn't a proper US equivalent because foreign language curricula don't follow any standards. They either had to keep it as a language exercise (don't all weeaboo want to learn Japanese anyway?) or completely change it to a different subject.

Most people who enjoy videogames don't care where their games came from. Fuck the weeaboos. Completely change it to a different subject and maintain the core of what the creator was trying to say- it won't make sense otherwise. The proper equivalent might not be obvious, but that's the the job of a skilled translator: to find an analog, however difficult to find, that makes sense.

 

[Zoe]

Most people who enjoy videogames don't care where their games came from. Fuck the weeaboos. Completely change it to a different subject and maintain the core of what the creator was trying to say- it won't make sense otherwise. The proper equivalent might not be obvious, but that's the the job of a skilled translator: to find an analog, however difficult to find, that makes sense.

I'm not really arguing that--just pointing out that Cowie's proposal wouldn't be a good option either. Using Japanese there is at least true to the spirit of the game (and targets a good portion of the game's fanbase), but the best option would have been to not have it be language-based in the first place.

 

[badcrumble]

I'm happy with Chrono Trigger sounding exactly like a Saturday morning cartoon because that's exactly what the game felt like to me when I was growing up. It starts off nicely divided into time period 'episodes,' always maintains a feeling of high adventure, and the translation felt just right to me when I was a kid. And no, I don't think that there are deep, hidden poetic meanings to the dialogue (crepes!) that Woolsey robbed us of.

xs_mini_neo, you are still a phemonenally embarrassing weeaboo.

 

[charlequin]

I care about the integrity and virtue of the work itself.

Very few things are less respectful to the integrity and virtue of any creative work to demand it be translated in a stilted, "literal" style that locks it off from being properly appreciated by audiences experiencing through translation.

I think what many people object to is the way that certain localizations wind up inventing all sorts of stuff that isn't even present in the original.

What "many" games are you talking about, exactly? I would be hard-pressed to fill up even one hand counting games that have been translated into English with a significant amount of stuff "invented" that "isn't even present" in the original. There's no game equivalent to Samurai Pizza Cats.

I could give plenty of examples of anime which do the negative things which I was talking about

Gosh, it's almost like anime is a completely different medium from videogames and the controversies and challenges related to translating one are not exactly the same as those related to translating the other!

The time most fans were anti-Woolsey started years before FF7 was even released

"Most fans" were never at any moment in time anti-Woolsey, and it's outrageously untrue to suggest that there was a meaningful backlash against FF6's US translation from the 600k-ish people who even knew about the series before FFVII's release.

I understand that cultures have differences, sometimes significantly so, and I feel that attempts to cover up these differences are offensive, both to the original culture and to my intelligence.

The purpose of cultural localization is almost never to disguise a product's cultural origins, it's to preserve the experience of consuming it. Any translator who even deserves the name understands that there are no hard-and-fast rules about what to do in a given situation, because you always have to take into account the actual meaning of a reference within the specific context work.

A lot of the time, "cultural references" in any creative work aren't really intended to be cultural references that carry the full weight of referential baggage; they're shorthand ways of communicating a single idea to the audience quickly. When Maya Fey gets ramen from a cart, it's not explaining to us that she loves noodles; it's communicating to us her love of junk food in a single sentence.

Sure, you can convey all that while preserving the reference, but by doing so the tradeoff is that you've replaced a quick, easily-comprehensible reference with a belabored and pedantic one. You end up writing awkward expository sentences like "Let's go get some of those great street noodles, I love eating junk food that's bad for me!" or throwing in translation notes to explain things that are of only fleeting importance. In the vast majority of translations, there is very little reason to do this when "I want burgers" will do the job in three words.

I think that it is possible to convey the nature of the reference without replacing it with a different one.

It really isn't. The point of an offhand pop culture reference -- like 99% of the ones under discussion here -- is, again, to make a quick reference to one specific quality -- someone's an ultra-popular pop singer so you compare them to Michael Jackson, someone else is a powerful mob boss so you compare them to Don Corleone, etc. You lose the intended impact of something like this by pedantically trying to preserve the original reference even though translating it loses nothing (since it's just there to reference one specific quality anyway.)

I agree that when a pop culture reference is a significant, ongoing plot point, the translator will tend to lean more towards preserving it -- because the more elements of the reference come into play in the story, the harder it is to find a good equivalent. It would certainly be pretty problematic to translate Beck by moving it to America and then replacing all the American musicians it references with Japanese musicians. :lol

I actually work with Woolsey, he's at MS, he's a cool guy but has little clue about his fan base which I find hilarious.

Keep going...

I mean "boldly fellates"?

To boldy go where no man has gone before.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Same guy that went and redid Chrono Trigger and left it as Maou-Sama. He claims to have Aspergers.

Every socially awkward geek these days is claiming they have Aspergers.

 

[Prime crotch]

He did a great job and it's sad that the following generation of consoles forwent those standarts in giving us awful translations, like FFVII

and fuck honorifics

 

[djtiesto]

I saw it as a bad thing when I was running around for hours in the northern forest on the World of Ruin looking for a "fierce dragon" (which was mistranslated from "dinosaur)... Aside from that though, and a couple of strange name changes (Mash sounds stupid but it's not like Sabin is any better), Woolsey did do a pretty good job with his localizations. Especially considering the heavy handed censorship of NOA, lack of cartridge space, and short deadlines.

Sometimes I don't like excessive localizations, especially when they are really heavy with the accents (DQ4, 5, Beat in The World Ends With You), it just sounds awkward in writing. Or when games have lots of things changed about them... i.e. a game may change 'curry' to 'hamburger' or something. Why strip cultural references out of your game in a desperate attempt to appeal to some middle americans, whose idea of 'ethnic cuisine' is the Olive Garden, who probably isn't buying your game anyways?

 

[Mandoric]

You're missing my point, though. Asking a Japanese player to answer simple English questions is completely different from asking a Western player to answer simple Japanese questions. What percentage of Japanese Students study at least some English? Compare that with the percentage of American Students that will ever even attend a school that offers Japanese. If the questions didn't matter that's one thing, but they have a slight impact on gameplay. If just for the US, asking Spanish questions is a much more reasonable assumption -- although it would seem a bit out of place.

Regardless, It's a case where accuracy needs to be sacrificed for the gamer's enjoyment/the game's playability.

Not "fair or no it's an accurate translation choice", "fair or no it's an accurate assumption for you to make". :lol

I honestly can't say I disagree with it too much given the fanbase, though. It's not like there isn't also an occult teacher who asks you things you'd never normally be asked in school but probably care about because you're playing a video game based around summoning demons.