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[Trojita]

I grew up playing rpgs like FFVI and Chrono Trigger. I knew that some parts of the writing of said games sounded kind of off, but only found out later that there was numerous unneeded translation changes.

Up until now I have always seen Woolseyism described as an inherently bad thing.

So why does this tvtropes article seem to make it seem that it's positive thing?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Woolseyism

Does anyone see this as positive thing?

 

[Zoe]

anti-weaboo movement

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I do, because I don't ascribe magical properties to the glorious Nihongo tongue.

 

[mavs]

"Son of a submariner" <-- that was when I knew FFIII was going to be great.

 

[ChoklitReign]

You prefer "All according to keikaku*"?

*Note: keikaku means plan

 

[theultimo]

It was the point when Translations/Localizations became less rushed and botched and people actually started to work on them.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Woolsey made FF3 greater than FF6.

 

[badcrumble]

You must hate the localizations in Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy XII.

 

[Dude Abides]

Since when was incoherent awkwardness a good thing?

 

[Aeana]

Woolsey did a great job, considering time constraints and other restrictions. He was one of the best of the era, aside from Dan Owsen (Earthbound). So yes, it's a good thing.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I want good dialogue. Whatever method that gets me there is GREAT in my book. I want my games to have engaging dialogue and if a literal translation won't cut it, then hack that baby up.

 

[DonMigs85]

Magus-sama

 

[Princess Skittles]

It's a VERY good thing if you would like video games to NOT read like bad anime fansubs.

 

[jett]

Ted Woolsey ftw.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I can't see anything wrong with translating a video game non-literally in the name of clarity and optimally conveying the original intentions in a way that's sensitive to the new cultural context.

Maybe if video game writing had an ounce of artistic merit, I'd feel differently. /snob

 

[Zoe]

The tricky part about localizations is they're usually written for a specific target audience. If you don't fall into that audience, it's not going to work for you.

I'm a fan of FFXII's localization, but I have absolutely no attachments to any Working Designs localizations.

 

[theultimo]

The tricky part about localizations is they're usually written for a specific target audience. If you don't fall into that audience, it's not going to work for you.

I'm a fan of FFXII's localization, but I have absolutely no attachments to any Working Designs localizations.

They were too pop-culture. If there is a Bill Clinton joke in the middle of Lunar, you can take it too far.

 

[Kobun Heat]

I remember being surprised and confused the first time I heard that people thought that Ted Woolsey had done something bad. I grew up on 8- and 16-bit RPGs that all available evidence suggested were translated by brain-damaged alpacas. Woolsey comes along, does a halfway decent job with Secret of Mana in the three days or whatever they gave him to pound out a script, and then practically in a vacuum actually writes a few game translations that actually read pretty well, which was essentially revolutionizing the process. His name was synonymous in my mind with "best translator ever."

A few years later and revisionist jackholes with oversized senses of entitlement and 20/20 hindsight whose first RPG was Final Fantasy VII decide that he didn't do a good enough job? How about fuck you.

 

[erpg]

You prefer "All according to keikaku*"?

*Note: keikaku means plan

Cracked me up in MH3:Tri. That localization team is composed of geniuses. If they made huge changes, I applaud their skill and wit.

 

[Gravijah]

I grew up playing rpgs like FFVI and Chrono Trigger. I knew that some parts of the writing of said games sounded kind of off, but only found out later that there was numerous unneeded translation changes.

Up until now I have always seen Woolseyism described as an inherently bad thing.

So why does this tvtropes article seem to make it seem that it's positive thing?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Woolseyism

Does anyone see this as positive thing?

Yeah, I see it as positive. I don't like literal translations, and when translating something from another language, things sometimes get lost. I also like when people add their own "essence" into things.

 

[BocoDragon]

For the time and place... it was fine.

Translations even went far into the shitter for a few years later, after Sony started translating most of the games...

The later translations that came into play with Square EA, Nintendo Treehouse etc were much better though. They weren't stridently in line with the original Japanese scripts either... but they stuck to the original intent of the dialogue, while often improving on them with colorful dialogue styles (Vagrant Story, Paper Mario, FFXII and FF Tactics War of the Lions, to name a few)

 

[I AM JOHN!]

Remember those guys who went back and retranslated Chrono Trigger?

Fuck those guys.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Sometimes things just don't translate well between cultures. So they need to be changed.

How well they are changed is what makes them good or bad.

 

[Nairume]

I remember being surprised and confused the first time I heard that people thought that Ted Woolsey had done something bad. I grew up on 8- and 16-bit RPGs that all available evidence suggested were translated by brain-damaged alpacas. Woolsey comes along, does a halfway decent job with Secret of Mana in the three days or whatever they gave him to pound out a script, and then practically in a vacuum actually writes a few game translations that actually read pretty well, which was essentially revolutionizing the process. His name was synonymous in my mind with "best translator ever."

A few years later and revisionist jackholes with oversized senses of entitlement and 20/20 hindsight whose first RPG was Final Fantasy VII decide that he didn't do a good enough job? How about fuck you.

As I recall, he managed to do Chrono Trigger in under a month, working with a larger script than had ever been given to him before and managed to come up with a new kind of compression to cut the size of the script in half.

His detractors claim that later part as evidence that he actually cut out half of the plot.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Hey, sometimes the original story isn't that well written to begin with. Lets not forget that!

 

[BocoDragon]

Hey, sometimes the original story isn't that well written to begin with. Lets not forget that!

Yeah you're right.. Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger stories sucked.

 

[Nairume]

Remember those guys who went back and retranslated Chrono Trigger?

Fuck those guys.

Same guy that went and redid Chrono Trigger and left it as Maou-Sama. He claims to have Aspergers.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

Yeah you're right.. Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger stories sucked.

Yeah, Chrono Trigger sure was ruined by the fact that Woolsey changed Soy Sauce, Vinegar, and whoever-the-fuck to Ozzy, Slash and Flea.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

A few years later and revisionist jackholes with oversized senses of entitlement and 20/20 hindsight whose first RPG was Final Fantasy VII decide that he didn't do a good enough job? How about fuck you.

This guy are sick.

 

[Lostconfused]

Is anyone going to draw parallels to Yakuza 3 here? No? Well I am too lazy to do it my self. Might have been entertaining though.

 

[McNum]

Consider the Phoenix Wright games. That's one big Woosleyism from start to finish. The Japanese games are full of references to Japanese pop culture and horrible puns. The localized version is also full of pop culture references and horrible puns, but they've all been changed to fit in English. The game still works, in fact, the game works because the localization is so excellent.

It's actually pretty impressive that the Phoenix Wright games are localized as well as they are, really. Outside of a few strange errors here and there, they managed to translate a game that's all about the text, humor and horrible puns. Especially the puns.

 

[Trojita]

You prefer "All according to keikaku*"?

*Note: keikaku means plan

No, and I absolutely hate it when One Piece fansubbers don't translate Nakama because
"it has some deeper meaning".

 

[Nairume]

Is anyone going to draw parallels to Yakuza 3 here? No? Well I am too lazy to do it my self. Might have been entertaining though.

Woolsey never took shit out, at least. In fact he added stuff. Siren in FF3 was given a new pair of pants :lol

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Yeah you're right.. Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger stories sucked.

I'm not targeting any specific games with that comment. I'm just saying that sometimes a game is only so-so when it comes to story and sometimes we have to factor this in. If the original japanese story is weak, I will take a rewrite if it improves things.

 

[Hilbert]

I am a pretty big proponent of having a mostly literal translation. I was reading Reeds and Mud by Ibanez, and was pretty upset when I found the translators taking liberties with the original Spanish.

I don't care about making it culturally familiar. I never really understood the reasoning behind that.

 

[BocoDragon]

Consider the Phoenix Wright games. That's one big Woosleyism from start to finish. The Japanese games are full of references to Japanese pop culture and horrible puns. The localized version is also full of pop culture references and horrible puns, but they've all been changed to fit in English. The game still works, in fact, the game works because the localization is so excellent.

It's actually pretty impressive that the Phoenix Wright games are localized as well as they are, really. Outside of a few strange errors here and there, they managed to translate a game that's all about the text, humor and horrible puns. Especially the puns.

I thought it was strange that they translated Phoenix Wright to be set in America, and then there's this Shinto priestess running around (or whatever she is).

I'm not targeting any specific games with that comment. I'm just saying that sometimes a game is only so-so when it comes to story and sometimes we have to factor this in. If the original japanese story is weak, I will take a rewrite if it improves things.

Too late. You implied it. Release the hounds.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Consider the Phoenix Wright games. That's one big Woosleyism from start to finish. The Japanese games are full of references to Japanese pop culture and horrible puns. The localized version is also full of pop culture references and horrible puns, but they've all been changed to fit in English. The game still works, in fact, the game works because the localization is so excellent.

It's actually pretty impressive that the Phoenix Wright games are localized as well as they are, really. Outside of a few strange errors here and there, they managed to translate a game that's all about the text, humor and horrible puns. Especially the puns.

I think the team that did the Phoenix Wright localizations should be given alot more work. The dialogue is chock full of flavor.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Sometimes things just don't translate well between cultures. So they need to be changed.

How well they are changed is what makes them good or bad.

oh god yes, wasnt one of the retranslations like " she wants something called "eye's cream" -> "She wants crepes.."

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I am a pretty big proponent of having a mostly literal translation. I was reading Reeds and Mud by Ibanez, and was pretty upset when I found the translators taking liberties with the original Spanish.

I don't care about making it culturally familiar. I never really understood the reasoning behind that.

Problem is that games are entertainment, and that the creators are usually involved with the localization process.

 

[GDGF]

:lol Ted Woolsey has his own -ism?

That's pretty cool.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I think the team that did the Phoenix Wright localizations should be given alot more work. The dialogue is chock full of flavor.

Team was lead by Alexander O. Smith.

Same guy who lead the Vagrant Story and FFXII localizations.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

I remember being surprised and confused the first time I heard that people thought that Ted Woolsey had done something bad. I grew up on 8- and 16-bit RPGs that all available evidence suggested were translated by brain-damaged alpacas. Woolsey comes along, does a halfway decent job with Secret of Mana in the three days or whatever they gave him to pound out a script, and then practically in a vacuum actually writes a few game translations that actually read pretty well, which was essentially revolutionizing the process. His name was synonymous in my mind with "best translator ever."

A few years later and revisionist jackholes with oversized senses of entitlement and 20/20 hindsight whose first RPG was Final Fantasy VII decide that he didn't do a good enough job? How about fuck you.

Fuck that's great.

 

[Boonoo]

I don't care about making it culturally familiar. I never really understood the reasoning behind that.

The reasoning is that, especially in mass media products like games, the consumers are supposed to understand and engage in the cultural references. The translator is trying to give you the same experience that someone reading it natively would have. It's not supposed to be some foreign experience, so they make it culturally familiar.

 

[Easy_D]

Oh another Translation vs Localization thread

 

[bhlaab]

The reasoning is that, especially in mass media products like games, the consumers are supposed to understand and engage in the cultural references. The translator is trying to give you the same experience that someone reading it natively would have. It's not supposed to be some foreign experience, so they make it culturally familiar.

But what about foreign films? They tend to be translated almost literally with subtitles only and are transparently an artifact of foreign culture.

Why in games should references to fried squid be changed to "hamburgers"?

 

[McNum]

I thought it was strange that they translated Phoenix Wright to be set in America, and then there's this Shinto priestess running around (or whatever she is).

Maya? Yeah, the whole spirit medium thing feels a little off, considering that you're obviously going to Japanese temples whenever the story has a Fey family focus. That and the extremely obvious word replacement. I don't know what Maya's favorite food was in Japanese, but I know one thing: It definitely wasn't "burgers", because you don't buy burgers off a cart.

But for the overall feel, especially with the names? Perfect. Turning "Mitsurugi" into "Edgeworth" was a pretty inspired translation, for instance. Making Kamen Mask into Mask*DeMeasque was also great, because it keeps the "Wait, is that the best he could come up with for a villain name?" aspect.

(Translator's note: Kamen means Mask)

 

[EmCeeGramr]

But what about foreign films? They tend to be translated almost literally with subtitles only and are transparently an artifact of foreign culture.

Why in games should references to fried squid be changed to "hamburgers"?

Because the makers of the games decided it worked better that way, because they're not meant to have artistic meaning where everything has symbolic meaning and they're about putting the audience into the shoes of the characters.

 

[Nairume]

Woolsey's reaction to the fan translators was actually kind of cool.

"Wait, you know Japanese. You understand what is going on already. Why are you bothering putting it in english if you can already read it?"

The Chrono Trigger retranslation by Sky Render was specifically dumb for that reason because he stated that he was only doing it for himself.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

But what about foreign films? They tend to be translated almost literally with subtitles only and are transparently an artifact of foreign culture.

Why in games should references to fried squid be changed to "hamburgers"?

It's not like everything has to be changed.

But sometimes a joke about fermented soybeans is just fucking stupid to anybody not from Japan.

Plus films are a bit more internationally minded.

 

[Easy_D]

Woolsey's reaction to the fan translators was actually kind of cool.

"Wait, you know Japanese. You understand what is going on already. Why are you bothering putting it in english if you can already read it?"

The Chrono Trigger retranslation by Sky Render was specifically dumb for that reason because he stated that he was only doing it for himself.

That's the one that kept all the japanese things right?

I was thinking, "cool, I'll replay the game with this translation to see how much was really changed"

I got to the part just before they throw you in jail. The guards show up and go all "Princess Marledia-Sama!" and I was angry.

Then I stopped playing.