"Skyrim is shallow" you have thought ? Not anymore ! Morrowind^2

Oct 2, 2010
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Poland
#1
I found this amazing site which gathers and categorize best mods for Skyrim out there and i found one simply fucking amazing mod.

You remember when you tried to kill ghost in Morrowind you could not do it without magic ?
You remember in Morrowind when you found dungeon which was very very very hard and with just barely any potion left you found treasure which would give you amazing stats or spells or anything ?
You remember that in Morrowind there were no common bandits with Glass armor ?

Welcom to :

Requiem - The Oldschool Roleplaying Overhaul

This mod fixes almost everything what was wrong with Skyrim. I had seen some mods which fixed few things but not only one that fixes everything.

So what problems were with Skyrim ?

- Level scaling
- Level scaled loot
- Shallow crafting
- Shallow magic
- Shallow skills
- Shallow thief skills
- Shallow and easy combat
- Only few weapons
- Monsters that were DPS machines
- Cheap prices.
- Shallow sneaking

I could go on and on about problems with Skyrim.

Above mod fixes all of that and more. I started playing it day ago and so far is excelent.

So what precisely it gives when you don't want to bother full description ?

- No level scaling at all. Loot , enemies, merchant stock is all based on random chance. But better equipment has low chance of spawning. And because everything need now more gold to buy you will struggle to buy any magic armor. Also gold from selling things is way lower than it used to. Created tons of potions ? Well most of them will go for 0 price and some of very rare by 30 or 70.

- Enemies are now smart and deadly. Weapons now deal much more damage and you need different tactics for each enemy. You see someone without armor ? Just take a bow and shoot him. One shoot with steel arrow is what it takes to kill someone without armor.
Or take sword. Dude with one two slices will go down.
You find someone with big armor ? Well better prepare some poison and run fast (if you have bow) or take hammer the bigger the more damage he can make on that armor. But don't expect to kill someone in big armor with sword or arrows.
Oh you found Dreug ? Prepare fire and sword then. Arrows won't do anything now and hammers aren't that good for flesh either.
And each enemy is like that. Troll ? Without fire don't even start fight because he will regenerate faster than you can deal damage. Skeletons ? Hammers. Bow wielder ? Shield if you have no armor or run fast if you have one.

This is what old shool RPG were about. Rock, paper, scizor.

- Crafting. Well you need to find book or buy them from vendors to craft anything.

- No fast travel. Use carriages.

- Traps are deadly.

- Magic reworked. Spells cost a lot, are deadly and burn mana like crazy.

- Health don't regenerate anymore. Potions don't regenerate health/stamina/magica instantly. Food now is actually useful because stamina don't regenerate as fast as it used to.

- Stealth is much improved. You need to be in dark places all time. Be without any armor and move silently.

- Each skill tree point actually matter now. You want to open chest ? Oh it's only aprientice ! Easy ! I just need to .. just need to .. ugh .. FUUUUUUUU. Yes you can open every chest like u used to but now chests are unscaled so you can find master chest anywhere and even novice chest are rather hard to unlock. Lockpick like rest of less useful skills in vanilla are very useful now.

- You can run for 1-2 minutes on level 1. But when you stamina is low, better not to start fight. Also with low stamina you practically walk in default running speed.

- Item, magic and skill descriptions are reworked. No more +20% to damage.

For whom it will be fun ?

For people who love Thief
For people who love Morrowind
For people who love old school RPG rock paper scizor combat.

If only Betsheda used those changes as original values..
 
Oct 2, 2010
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Poland
#7
These issues are what prevented me from ever enjoying Skyrim, even decked out with mods. Thanks for this, it's exactly what I wanted.
Remember to save a lot.

For example frostbite venom is actually now venom. Without cure poison or steady suply of health potions you are dead in moment when you are hit by poison.

Here is table of enemies:

For a more comprehensive depiction of enemy encounter difficulty, have a look at this list:

°Low Level Enemies (managable from first level on, IF taken on appropriately)

- Animals (Skeever, Mudcrabs, Wolfs, Bears, Sabrecats, Slaughterfish, Horkers)
- Bandits
- Forsworn (If they're still human!)
- Normal Humans in general
- Skeletons (if they're about a human's size)

°Mid Level Enemies (might still be somehow managable from first level, but requires great amounts of skill and tactics!)

- Soldiers and normal Guards
- Draugr
- Most other zombie-like creatures
- Witches/Hagravens
- Trolls
- Icewraiths
- Spiders
- Spriggans
- Mammoths
- Fire Atronachs
- Ghosts
- Giant Slaughterfish

°High Level Content (don't expect to have a chance against these without greatest preparations)

- Giants
- Vampires
- Mages
- Dragons
- Falmer
- Dwemer Constructs
- Werewolfs
- Giant Trolls
- Gigantic Mudcrab
- Dragonpriests
- Dremora
- Xivilai
- Frost Atronachs
- Storm Atronachs
- Elite Troops (For example, Bodyguards of Rulers etc.)
Good tip. Invest in poison. It really works now. Fire an arrow and run. Take a while and go back 99% chance enemy is dead. That's how i hunt for elks. Hit one and go after him and wait.
 
Apr 10, 2010
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Quebec
#8
Vanilla Skyrim was pure crap from gameplay point.
Yeah it was very innofensive. Halfway through you are basically a God and there was no challenge at all.

To be completely honest, and I know I am probably alone here, I though thw dice roll combat looked less goofy than the 50 swings that hit a dude before decapitating him.
 
Jan 30, 2010
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#11
So what do you do if you wander too far and go into mid/high enemies while being low level? Reload? Quicksave/load mastering game doesn't sound like fun when these enemies may show up anywhere you wander without you necessarily expecting them. These things only sound good when the game is made with them in mind from the start to at least point you in a vague direction that will be manageable for your level. With Skyrim's fully open approach outside the easily ignorable main story level scaling made the most sense. It needs a full reworking beyond the mechanics to become good imo. Also it sounds like available hotkeys just aren't going to be enough to allow for smooth flowing gameplay when the game requires you to use all your gear, potions and spells adequately. They're already too few when it doesn't. Maybe if it was an action bar based game it could work better.
 
Oct 2, 2010
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Poland
#17
So what do you do if you wander too far and go into mid/high enemies while being low level? Reload? These things only sound good when the game is made with them in mind from the start to at least point you in a vague direction that will be manageable for your level. With Skyrim's fully open approach outside the easilyignorable main story level scaling made the most sense.
A) Save often, especially before entering dungeons where you can expect enemies.
B) Vampires don't spawn just like that on roads same as any other high level enemy
C) You can always go back. When things aren't going smooth retreat.

Enemies don't respawn any more. There is slight chance that someone may occupy dungeon but once you killed someone in that dungeon it will stay dead.

For example for first mine (iron mine near riverwood) i took with 2 times.

1st i took out front guard with sword without damage and two with bow inside mine. But i got only 3 arrows left.

Tried to kill those two guys which came after bridge is lowered but always this dude with hammer got me first because i didn't have arrow and he had hammer. Meaning my shield was almost useless.

So i have gone back to town and bought more arrows.

For that captain near treasure chest i took special way. I showed myself her and run back to mine exit. I used trap with falling rocks on her. She was full in armor and i didn't have a hammer or armor myself.

Rest 3 when i took out light were no problem. Two of them i shoot with 1 arrow each and second one didn't know where i was so i took him out with 2 arrows.

I treasure chest i found few flawless gems, apprentice robe of destruction, 200 gold and 2 potions of stamina.

Second chest near second exit i couldn't open because it was apprentice chest. I will go back to it when i will gain skill in lockpicking.
 
Sep 15, 2006
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#19
Like this has to do anything with def of game.
It sold because of Morrowind and Oblivion not because it is hard or easy.

By your saying Dark Souls shouldn't sell at all.
Lol. Skyrim far outsold Dark Souls. And yes, the difficulty was one of the reasons why.

I'm glad this mod exists to make the game ridiculously difficult for those few who want that, but lets not pretend Bethesda doesn't know what it's doing.
 
Jan 30, 2010
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#20
Dark Souls with easy mode would sell more? Whoah. If only From knew!

Maybe Skyrim 2 will also set the default difficulty to super easy and not even have any other options, and double Skyrim sales.
 
Jun 30, 2006
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#21
Yeah it was very innofensive. Halfway through you are basically a God and there was no challenge at all...
the truth?: for me, the story/world/lore of skyrim was so frigging bland/generic that, had the game been anything close to challenging, i'd never've spent the amount of time with it that i did. it was only the fact that i could effortlessly kick ass that made the 'journey' bearable :) (note: skyrim's the first elder scrolls game i've ever actually completed. & i loved the 2 bethesda fallouts...)

so, yeah, even though the game world's pretty enough to spend some time in, when you combine the overall lack of personality with the clunky combat mechanics, i feel that there's really nothing there to justify 'struggling your way through'. i'd much rather go with the souls games for that...

I'm glad this mod exists to make the game ridiculously difficult for those few who want that, but lets not pretend Bethesda doesn't know what it's doing.
agreed...
 

marrec

Loves ketchup on hot dogs and Pringles
Oct 11, 2010
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740
#23
Lol. Skyrim far outsold Dark Souls. And yes, the difficulty was one of the reasons why.

I'm glad this mod exists to make the game ridiculously difficult for those few who want that, but lets not pretend Bethesda doesn't know what it's doing.
Watering down a classic RPG series in the name of sales is a great way to get fans in the short term, but when there is nothing remarkable about the experience the players have then people tend to stop buying. Skyrim is about as unremarkable as an Elder Scrolls game gets, and it's only going to get worse from here.
 
Aug 17, 2007
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#24
Hmm, If only I didn't already had 300 hours in the game (Completed on Xbox, and now level 50 in the PC/Steam modded version).. Seems to me this mod is mostly for those that either haven't played Skyrim, or hated it :)
 
Jan 30, 2010
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#25
Have they made weapons needing repairs? I liked that in Fallout 3 you had to repair your weapons by using the same type of weapon for parts. But perhaps they could make it more basic, like using any same-material weapon/item (ore bars too etc) rather than the same exact type only. To avoid uniques not being repairable yet still requiring some scavenging to keep in top shape. But yeah that's one way to make random crappy loot useful. Or have they found another way in this one?

Super Mario outsold Skyrim, Bethesda need to make the next Elder Scrolls a side scrolling game. Streamline dat 3D.
 
Sep 15, 2006
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#26
Watering down a classic RPG series in the name of sales is a great way to get fans in the short term, but when there is nothing remarkable about the experience the players have then people tend to stop buying. Skyrim is about as unremarkable as an Elder Scrolls game gets, and it's only going to get worse from here.
I enjoyed it immensely. It's my favorite Elder Scrolls game by far. Yes, I played Morrowind and both expansion packs to completion. The choices they made in streamlining the skills and adding perks all worked to improve the experience.

EDIT: I'm not interested in derailing further. If you didn't like the game, enjoy this mod. That's why mods are great.
 
Oct 2, 2010
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Poland
#27
Lol. Skyrim far outsold Dark Souls. And yes, the difficulty was one of the reasons why.

I'm glad this mod exists to make the game ridiculously difficult for those few who want that, but lets not pretend Bethesda doesn't know what it's doing.
No it sold because it was sequel to Morrowind and Oblivion and PR, not because it was easy or hard, had crafting or not. Same as Diablo 3. It sold a lot because of Diablo 2.

Hmm, If only I didn't already had 300 hours in the game (Completed on Xbox, and now level 50 in the PC/Steam modded version).. Seems to me this mod is mostly for those that either haven't played Skyrim, or hated it :)
It is really worth it. It really changes the game. I was long time looking for something like this.

Vanilla combat was HP/DPS related and now it's entirely tactical. You actually use those magic traps for example.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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760
#29
Mod sounds somewhat unstable and I dislike that you have to start a new game with it as well. Not sure how it plays with the Alternative Life/Start mod which can dump you all over the place on the map.

Still, the perks he uses as examples for the perk tree rebalancing/rewriting are quite creative and sound interesting:

° Regeneration (a new perk in the alchemy tree): "Having consumed extracts from troll fat and fish eggs, you are now able to regenerate when immersed in water."

° One as Many (a new Speechcraft perk): "You've become an extraordinarily good actor and are now able to use disguise yourself perfectly." (This allows you to become a faction member of some selected factions upon donning their related chest slot robe/armor)
ScreenSplitter said:
I don't really get GAF's hatred for Skyrim. Sure the game got stale, but only after dozens of hours of gameplay. Sure it can get better with mods, and clearly it has, but don't act like vanilla Skyrim was some sort of crapfest.
ThisisNeoGafDude.gif

I agree with you, its just the Dark Souls contingent wanting that in Skyrim.

EDIT: Wow. Forget the balancing, really like this guys creativity with perks and spells:

- Featherfalling (Alteration, 25): Negates Falling Damage
- Transmute Muscles (Alteration, 25): The caster hardens his arm and hand muscles, making them like stone. All unarmed damage is drastically increased.
- Absorb [Attribute] (Alteration, 50 to 100): Drains the targets lifeforce, magic energy,... and gives it to the caster.
- Telekinetic Disarry (Alteration, 75): Removes all clothing from the target and disarms it.
- Telekinetic Blast (Alteiration, 100): A concentrated blast of telekinetic Force, sending anyone it strikes flying through the air while tearing appart their very skeletons.
- Lightning Speed (Alteration, 100): The caster moves almost as fast as light, making everything slow down almost to motionlessness.
- Transmute Corpus (Alteration, 100): The caster attempts to turn the target into a slimey pile of ectoplasm.

- Summon Ghostly Steed (Conjuration, 50): Summon the ghost of a horse that's a quite unqiue mount - it's the fastest mount available, while being completley invulnerable - it can even fall down all of mount High Hrothgar without taking a scratch. Also, the caster becomes ethereal, too, when mounting it, also making him or her invulnerable for as long as sitting on the steed. However, this also prevents attacking from this mount!
- Teleport I (Conjuration, 50): Works like a Mark and Recall spell.
- Teleport II (Conjuration, 75): Teleports the caster to the target location; it does work in combat, and it even allows the teleportation through bars and other obstackles that do not block line of sight.

- Arcane Missle (Destruction, 50): A missle of pure arcane energy that is fired instantly and deals non-specified damage, penetrating most mortal resistances.
- Toxic Spray (Destruction 50): Cover your foes in toxic and corrosive slime.
- Lightning Cascade (Destruction, 100): The target is tormented by ferocious lightning for a limited duration.

- Umbral Vision (Ilusion, 25): You can see in the dark. Toggable.
- Arcane Resonance (Illusion, 25): Works like the shout "Throw Voice", but as a spell version
- Phantasmal Killer I (Illusion, 50): Kills the sleeping humanoid target instantly without any sounds.
- Phantasmal Killer II (Illusion, 75): Causes the target humanoid to commit suicide.
- Phantasmal Killer III (Illusion, 100): Causes the target to either face its most feared nightmares or die from a terrible heartattack.
- Fury IV (Illusion, Domination): Causes the target to go beserk without the caster risking to be detected as the spell's source.
- Arcane Dominance (Illusion, Domination): Completley control the minds of all nearby weak individuals, causing them to not attack you even when threatened, to give you outrageous prices while bartering and to submit to almost any proposal...
 

marrec

Loves ketchup on hot dogs and Pringles
Oct 11, 2010
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#31
I don't really get GAF's hatred for Skyrim. Sure the game got stale, but only after dozens of hours of gameplay. Sure it can get better with mods, and clearly it has, but don't act like vanilla Skyrim was some sort of crapfest.
It was kinda crappy, they just hid it very well. I played it for 24 hours before I realized I wasn't having any fun. Sneaky Bethesda.
 
May 9, 2011
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#33
So skyrim is finally a playable game? May have to give it a shot again now.

I don't really get GAF's hatred for Skyrim. Sure the game got stale, but only after dozens of hours of gameplay. Sure it can get better with mods, and clearly it has, but don't act like vanilla Skyrim was some sort of crapfest.
The game's problem is that it doesn't get stale, you only become aware to how pitiful and casual it is after that time. It's like a smokescreen effect that hides the loot scaling that ruins any exploration in the game and ridiculously bad crafting and economy system. It's the ultimate RPG for casuals who don't want to play RPGs.
 
Oct 2, 2010
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Poland
#34
Mod sounds somewhat unstable and I dislike that you have to start a new game with it as well. Not sure how it plays with the Alternative Life/Start mod which can dump you all over the place on the map.

Still, the perks he uses as examples for the perk tree rebalancing/rewriting are quite creative and sound interesting:
I use it with another life mod and it works ok. It is stable mod and really works well. IT is not just simple unscaler. For example some of items are moved or enemies. Now mission like kill xxx bandit is worthwile quest because you can train and actually earn something.

I started in solitude and i had no problem with local wildlife. As enemy loot table says which i posted only high level enemy like vampires are deadly at 1st level. With right aproach and tactic most of mid level creatures are killable. Also because of nature of weapons and because dmg and armor have very high stats how good you are is more dependant on your equipment and skills you have. Not unlike vanilla when you found someone strong it is DPS. Each enemy has downsides which you can actually use even if you are 1st level.
 
Sep 11, 2010
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#36
Lol. Skyrim far outsold Dark Souls. And yes, the difficulty was one of the reasons why.

I'm glad this mod exists to make the game ridiculously difficult for those few who want that, but lets not pretend Bethesda doesn't know what it's doing.
You can make a well designed RPG without pandering to the lowest common denominator. See: Fallout: New Vegas. It's accessible, yet miles ahead of Bethesda's shallow efforts.

Also, lol @ Bethesda knowing what they are doing. They know jack shit about how to develop well designed RPGs + they are technically incompetent as well. That's like saying that dude who directs Transformers movies knows what he's doing (unless "knows what he's doing" means "knows how to make pretty explosions that masses like"). They have the money & know-how for how to develop big worlds, but that's about as far as their competence goes, in the WRPG realm.
 
Aug 4, 2007
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#38
I really don't have the problem with Skyrim some of you have. I think it's a great game. Sure, there are areas it could have been better in, but on the whole it was one of the best wrpg's I've played in a long time. Great soundtrack, great atmosphere, great fun. (I still think Fallout 3 is Bethesda at their best, but Skyrim is no slouch either).

Just felt like adding that there for balance. Not everyone thinks its a shitfest, far from it.

On topic, I'm going to try this mod out. Looks great.
 
Oct 2, 2010
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Poland
#39
I don't really get GAF's hatred for Skyrim. Sure the game got stale, but only after dozens of hours of gameplay. Sure it can get better with mods, and clearly it has, but don't act like vanilla Skyrim was some sort of crapfest.
It is a problem of ambition. They always create amazing worlds but with each next elder scrolls they shallow it more instead of introducing deeper concepts to enrich gameplay.

Level scaling is the most problematic one.

Seems awesome, but even Arena had fast travel.
You have carriages and sprinting is now actually sprinting. You can sprint for 1-2 minutes and with food you can sprint from Whiterun to Riven in no time.



Morrowind was awful in third person whereas Skyrim was brilliant. I thought most of the changes were for the better.
o_O If you wanted to play 3rd person RPG then you have found yourself most shitty one.
 
May 9, 2011
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#40
I really don't have the problem with Skyrim some of you have. I think it's a great game. Sure, there are areas it could have been better in, but on the whole it was one of the best wrpg's I've played in a long time. Great soundtrack, great atmosphere, great fun. (I still think Fallout 3 is Bethesda at their best, but Skyrim is no slouch either).

Just felt like adding that there for balance. Not everyone thinks its a shitfest, far from it.

On topic, I'm going to try this mod out. Looks great.
I really don't think you can make the argument for it being a good wrpg. It's too factually dumbed down and streamlined in too many areas.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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Orlando
#41
I loved Oblivon and the Fallout games and Skyrim. I'm glad you guys have less to complain about now that this is out but if this was the default mode, I don't think I'm alone in that I would stay far, far away from it. I liked Dark Souls too, but I don't want that in these games. Also the magic changes sound annoying.
 
Oct 2, 2010
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Poland
#42
I really don't have the problem with Skyrim some of you have. I think it's a great game. Sure, there are areas it could have been better in, but on the whole it was one of the best wrpg's I've played in a long time. Great soundtrack, great atmosphere, great fun. (I still think Fallout 3 is Bethesda at their best, but Skyrim is no slouch either).

Just felt like adding that there for balance. Not everyone thinks its a shitfest, far from it.

On topic, I'm going to try this mod out. Looks great.
Fallout 3 is neither amazing RPG.

Worlds area fantastic but game-play is crap which is most of what you actually do in both games.
 
Apr 21, 2011
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#43
Skyrim is like Oblivion, and even Morrowind and basically everything else Beth does. It comes out, it seems amazing, you play it and you have a ton of fun with it, you put it down after several dozen hours(or several hundred, if you're that kind of gamer) and in retrospect you see it slowly lost its magic as you continued playing it. For some reason that causes some people to conclude that they are 'terrible' after having hours and hours of fun with them. This will also be true of whatever game they do next that we will get super-hyped about, and that I am already looking forward to even though I don't know what it is(
please be Fallout
).

Regarding this mod, I had some fun with an equivalent mod for Oblivion but FUUUUUUUCK no fast travel. I ain't got time for that.
 
Oct 2, 2010
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Poland
#45
Skyrim is like Oblivion, and even Morrowind and basically everything else Beth does. It comes out, it seems amazing, you play it and you have a ton of fun with it, you put it down after several dozen hours(or several hundred, if you're that kind of gamer) and in retrospect you see it slowly lost its magic as you continued playing it. For some reason that causes some people to conclude that they are 'terrible' after having hours and hours of fun with them. This will also be true of whatever game they do next that we will get super-hyped about, and that I am already looking forward to even though I don't know what it is(
please be Fallout
).

Regarding this mod, I had some fun with an equivalent mod for Oblivion but FUUUUUUUCK no fast travel. I ain't got time for that.
Because from get go you don't see problem with it. You think all those things you see will get better with time. But this is absolutely not the case.

You start to notice shallowness of mechanics and in the end you don't see any point going into any dungeon knowing that everything is scaled to your level. No reward.
 
Jul 16, 2007
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steamcommunity.com
#47
im waiting for whatever SureAI is cooking up.
This.

The mod doesn't fix the other big problem I have with Skyrim. It will still be a bland and uninspiring world. And a lot of these changes sound like it will be hard for the sake of hard. I prefer a happy medium where that the combat system is revamped and enemies can become challenging but also where I can still go exploring a new place without worrying that I'll be killed every step I take. That's why Nehrim is still my benchmark for overhaul mods and why I'm eagarly waiting for their mod for Skyrim.
 
Oct 2, 2010
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Poland
#50
Also i did not tell you about best thing.


When you die it autoload last save the moment when you take last hit. It uses mechanic which Super meat boy used.
At first it is weird. But it is amazing mechanic.
In summary you don't have chance to rage.