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[Dwalls]

Right... how many free DLC can you get since publishers are able to ask money for it?

Valve just turned mods into user-made paid DLC. I don't think that's a good thing '

Hey someone else remembers people saying mappacks and expansionary content would still be free after the advent of DLC. Then TF2 launched on consoles and none of the free content was implemented. How unreal games tried to launch free DLC and was quickly rebuffed. The same thing is going to apply here. Then they made cheats a micro transaction, and it's all downhill from there.

 

[Etnos]

Who would've thought a company would want money. Are you implying that people want to earn money. Shocker of the century!

Honestly, this is just valve experimenting like usual. Fallout 4 will be the big barometer, and hopefully with paid mods we'll see a much higher standard and better premium "mods" for people to make. I think this was put out a wee bit early, but Valve likes to do this type of stuff

Also, the 25% cut is pretty good considering you're building off of someone else's assets and selling it on someone elses marketplace.

Glad to see you welcome our new monopolistic overlord, enjoy 75% fee cut.

because business.

 

[alexandros]

Hopefully this will encourage more companies to add modding support to their games.

 

[Etnos]

Hopefully this will encourage more companies to add modding support to their games.

In the other hand this will encourage even more companies to have a only steam release, It's already a bummer you can ONLY get games like Cities Skylines on steam.

 

[Alavard]

But then, let's take this here from the copyright article:



So all of these mods use Skyrim, not just the engine it was created in. This is not the same as say: "I'm using the Unreal 3 engine to make a new game" no, this is essentially saying "I'm using Gears of War and altering things in that". Now I can see if your work is so transformative that it becomes its own thing (DotA for example), that you have a leg to stand on, but otherwise I'm still not seeing it.

From that page though, the original Game Genie was used as an example that successfully used it as a defense, when Nintendo sued Galoob. The game genie modified code of the running game, and required the presence of the game in order to do so, but it was ruled that people were free to modify the game as they wished.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

In the other hand this will encourage even more companies to have a only steam release, It's already a bummer you can ONLY get games like Cities Skylines on steam.

Which is a bummer for me because I'm currently a GOG only customer and I'm staying that way for the foreseeable feature.

 

[Aselith]

Right... how many free DLC can you get since publishers are able to ask money for it?

Valve just turned mods into user-made paid DLC. I don't think that's a good thing '

A decent bit usually depening on the publisher. How many could you get before they could ask for money?

 

[Hari Seldon]

Well i'm done with Bethesda games now that they are turning into a microtransaction shitfest. Fuck this shit.

 

[LurkerPrime]

I don't understand how Valve is going to avoid an impending legal nightmare... If I upload a mod to Steam, there could literally be 4 parties trying to claim ownership of the same line of code:

• The Mod Creator
• The Mod Distributor (often will be the same as the creator, but not always)
• The game developer
• Valve

Just crazy...

Part of why modding has done so well is that line of code has no value. When it's free, no one really cares who owns it. As soon as money is introduced, however, people will start to care deeply about who specifically owns it.

Lastly, I know there's a lot of "shame on Valve" sentiment here, but where's the "shame on Bethesda"? Bethesda's games have thrived due to their modding scene, and now they're trying to make a quick buck in there?

No developer is going to let something like DotA happen to them ever again. If there's a profitable thing made by one of their modders, the the largest parties involved will be there to claim it as their own.

 

[Sober]

Total conversions used to be a lot more common. Now, they're nearly nonexistent. There SHOULD be a way for people to make a living creating content for games, rather than just making money for someone else with no return. The manpower required for TCs and similarly complex, original asset heavy mods is prohibitive for hobbyists, except for a handful of organized outliers like the Nerhim team.

I maintain that the real problem here is doing this with an established game, where people already share tools, use each others mods as dependencies, and so on. I sincerely believe that if this feature was in from the start, it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem, and a lot of smaller content, or mods that largely serve to support other mods, would still be free.

I guess the real problem is how half-baked the economic side of this is. For other games on the workshop, custom content is still free, but once implemented into the main game, content creators get a cut of the money from optional event purchases. Skyrim likely needs something similar; some single player equivalent of, "here's the best free mods; buy this trinket to get the whole collection together and pay the creators." Because as it is... It's chaos.

There's a HUGE hurdle to clear from going from making a TC mod (in a day where mod tools start becoming scarce, community created, or the suite of tools are less extensive) than in the past, as well as a gigantic hurdle of going from a TC mod team to an indie team (we're talking usually half a dozen people plus) making their own game. Because there is no safety net of, "we're familiar with the engine and all it's quirks", etc. or the issues of logistics and everything, that modding becomes almost a thing I think most people settle into because it just becomes a hobby with none of the stress, anxiety, and grief of trying to involve money into a project (short of your own time, etc.)

 

[Vibranium]

I will never pay a cent for a mod. I will support the modder through donation though if it's something I like.

I usually only grab mods for visual, gameplay tweaking and game performance stuff though, not any of the big stuff.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

From that page though, the original Game Genie was used as an example that successfully used it as a defense, when Nintendo sued Galoob. The game genie modified code of the running game, and required the presence of the game in order to do so, but it was ruled that people were free to modify the game as they wished.

The game genie simply allowed for modding though. It didn't copyright modded things in Mario for example. I don't feel it's quite the same thing.

 

[water_wendi]

A decent bit usually depening on the publisher. How many could you get before they could ask for money?

More than a decent bit.

 

[draetenth]

Outside of fraud and theft issues, one of the more confusing ideas is doing this with a well established game and its mods retroactively, inherently proliferating many issues regarding compatibility and authorship / collaborations more than would likely have been the case if the mods functioned around this workshop model from the start, or the game and mods were well controlled and supported / curated by the developer. Its a weird situation

Yeah, I mean there probably would have been a big backlash if they announced this for Fallout 4 or The Elder Scrolls 6, but at least people would know up front and avoid issues of people using parts of mods without permission... I do expect this to be a preview to how Bethesda games and mods will be like going forward, but I really hope Valve takes a long look at the process (doubt it though going by Greenlight and how long it took before Valve finally got rid of the process for the most part).

Yep. It's kind of sacrificing Skyrim's established mod scene on the altar of Valve economic experimentation. I'm sure they'll work the kinks out eventually and figure out a good model, but there are immediate and significant repercussions in the interim.

Pretty much...

In the other hand this will encourage even more companies to have a only steam release, It's already a bummer you can ONLY get games like Cities Skylines on steam.

Well, Cities: Skylines is published by Paradox and they have been releasing some of their older games on GOG so it's possible to see Cities: Skylines come to GOG eventually (unless it's been mentioned that it won't?).

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Even after going through careful Q&A absolutely no two mod can guarantee you that they will 100% work together, all it takes is for them to touch up the same area/mechanic of the game to create a conflict and cause trouble.

I agree. That's where I think this will fail, or cause the most uproar. Downloading some free mods for Skyrim is one thing - but whenever you pay for something you expect it to function. And if you download a mod that breaks part of your game, will Valve refund your purchase if it's past the 24 hour mark?

 

[Alavard]

Well, looks like the 17 paid mods are back up again.

 

[SneakyStephan]

This is why you can't Open-Source paid mods.

Valve is going to have to incorporate a Steam-only DRM for mods moving forward. Like I mentioned a few posts back, some sort of encrypted certificate system that protects modders intellectual property (encrypted certificate files of some sort) and locks it into each individual buyer's Steam account so it can't be duplicated or altered and can only be used on Steam.

I expect that very thing to be added for Bethesda's next big PC game... (Cough Fallout 4 cough).

Bethesda's E3 presentation in June should be interesting...

I cringed at the bolded

So, how are you guys enjoying the can of greed and pettyness being opened over the skyrim modding scene from the very first day this terrible idea was executed?

This is going to kill mod interactions/dependencies on top of all the countless other issues.

relevant video to this whole situation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0

 

[cdyhybrid]

Also, the shop is starting to come back up, it seems.

 

[orava]

Was the "Pay what you want" option there in the beginning?

 

[Aselith]

More than a decent bit.

Hardly. You could get some developer made stuff from SOME developers and some modded stuff. Most of the stuff was left as it went out the door barring bug patches and expansions which is DLC effectively.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

I cringed at the bolded

So, how are you guys enjoying the can of greed and pettyness being opened over the skyrim modding scene from the very first day this terrible idea was executed?

This is going to kill mod interactions/dependencies on top of all the countless other issues.

relevant video to this whole situation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0

That video is glorious.

/dead
/resurrection
/dead againe

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Was the "Pay what you want" option there in the beginning?

Nope, that's new.

Hilarious.

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Was the "Pay what you want" option there in the beginning?

I thought it was part of the original announcement.

 

[Lutherian]

Now, every single thread and comment section of the Workshop Mods are in Read-Only mode.

Day one, already a disaster.

- Steam Greenlight : home of ten thousand new shitty games per day.
- Steam Early Access : ask Jim Sterling.

Didn't they think about the execution of each thing they try to add to Steam ?

 

[owlbeak]

This is total bullshit, and Valve....wtf, valve.

I hope this blows up in their face and they get rid of this program.

 

[water_wendi]

Hardly. You could get some developer made stuff from SOME developers and some modded stuff. Most of the stuff was left as it went out the door barring bug patches and expansions which is DLC effectively.

im remembering a decent amount of post launch content releasing free of charge. Map packs being the largest. Free expansion packs like Icewind Dales and Rune (? i think it was Rune) Cavedog? Maybe ive got it wrong though?

 

[Netherscourge]

relevant video to this whole situation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0

lol

That's brutal.

EDIT - "selling bugfixes next" - oh man, don't give them any ideas. lol

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Wow 75%, steam got it backwards right? They should be getting the chump change.

 

[Etnos]

Now, every single thread and comment section of the Workshop Mods are in Read-Only mode.

Day one, already a disaster.

- Steam Greenlight : home of ten thousand new shitty games per day.
- Steam Early Access : ask Jim Sterling.

Didn't they think about the execution of each thing they try to add to Steam ?

Laissez-faire, Free market, A. Smith's Invisible Hand, Governance by algorithms...It's all in the master plan!

Is not just they being lazy, arrogant, and well abusing the fact we gave them a monopoly.

 

[orava]

Wow 75%, steam got it backwards right? They should be getting the chump change.

Actually it's the publisher who gets most of it and decides the share. Valve gets cut from the publishers part.

 

[Red Blaster]

I don't really see any way this could lead to a "disaster".

hmm about that

 

[Hari Seldon]

relevant video to this whole situation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0

Hahahahaha that is perfect.

 

[jmga]

Valve is deleting steam forum messages linking to the change.org petition. I suppose it has already been posted.

 

[water_wendi]

Now, every single thread and comment section of the Workshop Mods are in Read-Only mode.

Day one, already a disaster.

- Steam Greenlight : home of ten thousand new shitty games per day.
- Steam Early Access : ask Jim Sterling.

Didn't they think about the execution of each thing they try to add to Steam ?

Skyrims concurrent record is going to be shattered this weekend.

Valve is deleting steam forum messages linking to the change.org petition. I suppose it has already been posted.

As much as id love to take any opportunity to shit on Valve i dont think they moderate the forums. Its probably Bethesda.

 

[jmga]

As much as id love to take any opportunity to shit on Valve i dont think they moderate the forums. Its probably Bethesda.

If I am not wrong, it is not the Skyrim forum.

http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/618459931322607080/#p1

 

[draetenth]

relevant video to this whole situation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0

Lol, what's the real interview about? I'm wondering what was so funny...

Was the "Pay what you want" option there in the beginning?

Nope, that's new.

Hilarious.

I thought it was part of the original announcement.

I'm pretty sure En Ex is correct. It was always there. The modder could set a minimum and maximum price (what you see is just the suggested price or something). However, I don't think they can set the minimum to 0... For instance, Wet and Cold goes from $1 to $99.

 

[zephervack]

For the people that in favor of paid mods, how would you have launched it?

Maybe a huge conversion mod that couldnt be done for free?, but even then, there have been tons of those before... for free.

 

[joeygreco1985]

Man, this whole situation is such a shit show.

If you told me this was something EA was pulling on Origin I wouldn't bat an eye. But Valve!?!? Jesus Christ...

 

[eot]

Total conversions used to be a lot more common. Now, they're nearly nonexistent. There SHOULD be a way for people to make a living creating content for games, rather than just making money for someone else with no return. The manpower required for TCs and similarly complex, original asset heavy mods is prohibitive for hobbyists, except for a handful of organized outliers like the Nerhim team.

Total conversions don't have as much of a place in a world where the best 3D game engines money can buy don't need to be bought. In today's world there's no reason why the next CS should be a mod and not a standalone game.

 

[ashecitism]

Lol, what's the real interview about? I'm wondering what was so funny...

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/el-risitas-interview-parodies

where he burst into laughter after telling a humorous anecdote about throwing kitchen pans into the sea while working at a beach restaurant as a young man

right vid has english subs

 

[water_wendi]

If I am not wrong, it is not the Skyrim forum.

http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/618459931322607080/#p1

Ah well then.

For the people that in favor of paid mods, how would you have launched it?

Maybe a huge conversion mod that couldnt be done for free?, but even then, there have been tons of those before... for free.

i probably wouldnt have done it at all but if i had to i would have at least started with a completely new game that would incorporate it. Not a game that has already had years of free modding on the Workshop. Next would have been to get some sort of approval process between the developer/publisher and the mod to determine if it was quality enough to get on the marketplace.

 

[Etnos]

Total conversions used to be a lot more common. Now, they're nearly nonexistent.

Unity3d & Unreal free downloads are today's total conversions man.

I'm all for people to charge for work, do agree with Totalbiscuit on this one, work is work and if someone is whiling to pay for your work the transaction is legit. The problem is Valve being PC Gaming's default monopoly, as if 75% cut fee is not enough of a clue about monopolies being no good for nobody.

 

[eot]

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/el-risitas-interview-parodies



right vid has english subs

It doesn't matter how many times I've seen that or what mood I'm in, it always cracks me up.

God damn legendary.

 

[PedroLumpy]

For the people that in favor of paid mods, how would you have launched it?

I don't think there's really a way they could have launched it without it being a shit show.

A massive cultural shift needs to happen for this to work well. As was said earlier, the Skyrim workshop is basically a sacrificial lamb to get us through the mess.

 

[Hari Seldon]

This is a PR move to expel the hatred well in advance of a future game announcement. If they announced their next game with mods restricted to the workshop without this priming first, the backlash would torpedo all of their PR plans for that game.

 

[KKRT00]

relevant video to this whole situation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0

/dead

 

[Almighty]

For the people that in favor of paid mods, how would you have launched it?

Not in favour of paid mods and probably no way to do this without it being some kind of shit show. With that said I think Valve/Bethesda could of saved themselves a shit ton of headaches if they launched this with say Fallout 4 instead of Skyrim.

 

[Vibranium]

The only way this works is if it is tiered donations for a modder (who actually get a decent cut) but actual mods stay free. I really hope something like this happens instead.

 

[reckless]

Not in favour of paid mods and probably no way to do this without it being some kind of shit show. With that said I think Valve/Bethesda could of saved themselves a shit ton of headaches if they launched this with say Fallout 4 instead of Skyrim.

Nah, the backlash would have drowned out everything else for fallout 4. This is a lot better for them, they can test the waters with a game that's pretty much dead sales wise.

 

[FyreWulff]

this is a hobbyist scene.

Always ALWAYS has been

The flight sim community has a huge economy around paid mods. There are mods for Flight Simulator that cost more than Flight Simulator itself, and are used in actual pilot training sims.