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Smash Bros Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread: Goodbye, Cherry-don
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BrendenLee
Member
Final Destination
Dreamland 64
Yoshi's Island
Termina Bay
It's amazing Smash is still evolving this late in its life. At the last MLG a Donkey Kong placed 4th and is making a strong argument for one last restructuring of the tiers before Brawl.
You can see him play Isiah here -->
Bum (DK) v. Isiah (CF) - MLG Long Island
Dreamland 64
Yoshi's Island
Termina Bay
It's amazing Smash is still evolving this late in its life. At the last MLG a Donkey Kong placed 4th and is making a strong argument for one last restructuring of the tiers before Brawl.
You can see him play Isiah here -->
Bum (DK) v. Isiah (CF) - MLG Long Island
BrendenLee
Member
ColdBlooded33 said:
There's nothing surprising about a Donkey Kong placing 4th in an MLG tournament.
Ok:lol
Tiers are meant for the highest level of play blah blah take the best Fox and he'll beat the best Pichu because of inherent advantages blah blah tiers are legitimate blah blah blah
BrendenLee said:
Did you not see it? He beat ISAI'S FALCON WITH DONKEY KONG.
*watches*
Oh snap. Although Falcon being a fastfaller probably had something to do with it. There were some pretty awesome combos in there.
ColdBlooded33 said:
Yeah, you can **** up most crappy players with Link. Tiers aren't bullshit. They exist in EVERY GAME. The only way to eliminate tiers is by making every character play the exact same way. Then you'd have a perfectly balanced, and boring, game. Otherwise, one character will always be at least slightly better than another when used to their potential.
Dark Ninja
Member
Am I the only one who wants Safron city to be in Brawl
man that level ruled on the N64
man that level ruled on the N64
Gekkonidae
Member
I've been out of the loop. Can any smashers tell me if there's been a real DK resurgence (wel,, surgence) or if it's just one guy. I mean, it would surprise me, but I guess it's not unprecedented after the Ice Climbers revolution.
BrendenLee
Member
Firestorm said:
Hence making a strong argument for tier restructuring.
I heard the crowd went wild during Bum's matches, wish they had vids with bg on them.
Check out his matches on Jungle Japes, he's developed a real nice strategy on that stage.
BrendenLee
Member
Gekkonidae said:
It's just been Bum so far. DK's u-throw to u-air is too good, on par with Fox's u-throw to u-air so he might have some legs.
As for the IC's, Chu and Wobbles are the only two who have made a real impact, they're not so easy to pick up.
BrendenLee
Member
Firestorm said:
Understandable, it's rough around here.
Dark Ninja
Member
Firestorm said:
Yeah Hyrule temple was cool too
I didn't understand why those hurricane things were there
they dont even come out in zelda
An item they should add is the Master Ball from Pokemon. Basically you can capture anything with it. Pick it up and throw it at another player to capture them! Once captured you can throw the ball on the ground and your opponent will pop out doing a special move (not of their choosing). If someone else has a Master Ball you have many defenses to evade confinement. You can use a projectile like Links Boomerang to intercept the Master Ball but the Boomerang will be caught and your opponent can use it against you.
Favorite Stages:
Green Greens
Hyrule Temple
Final Destination (To measure skill)
Bonus. SSB:
Saffron City
Hyrule Castle
Sector Z (Thats what it was called right? The Starfox stage.)
Damn. That up air combo is unbalanced. Impressive Donkey Kong play.
Favorite Stages:
Green Greens
Hyrule Temple
Final Destination (To measure skill)
Bonus. SSB:
Saffron City
Hyrule Castle
Sector Z (Thats what it was called right? The Starfox stage.)
BrendenLee said:
Damn. That up air combo is unbalanced. Impressive Donkey Kong play.
Taxman said:
I know there's a Smash History topic at SmashBoards (outlining the early days of Smash). It talks about how items were allowed back at the beginning and how the East/West coasts played the game in totally seperate ways. Also kind of how it developed into the ruleset that's used today. But I don't think it says much about how the ICs became awesome. Chu Dat basically created them single-handedly really....
Gekkonidae
Member
Taxman said:
Revolution is too strong a word, I guess. Basically, the ICs were never really considered very good until ChuDat figured out that they really had a great deal of potential (particularly due to their high level counters) and several other smashers followed suit. This caused the ICs to steadily shoot up in the tier list.
Holy Order Sol
Member
FlightOfHeaven said:
Taste the sad, Michael.
I can show that list to any gamer I know and they'll find their favorite composer in. But me ? It's like Sakurai told me to go **** myself. :lol
Bah. Here's hoping Sakuraba does Zelda's Main Theme and uses his prog-rock style rather than his "orchestral" one.
That, or we could get a character from BK and have Chaotic Dance 3 in.
Oh, I know. I'm just saying I wouldn't use them that way. >_> It's not even the scrolling that gets me, just the small stage boundaries. Kind of like Brinstar Depths, just seems too easy to KO to me.Firestorm said:Jiggy, Rainbow Cruise and Poke Floats are allowed in competitive play
By the way, I'm pretty sure that Link and Luigi are going to be moved into the middle tier for the next tier revision. They're just sooo much better than the rest of low tiers.
Thanks to Bum, DK might go up to middle tier, as well.
I don't think DK will change positions relative to other characters, though. After all, Taj's mewtwo didn't affect the tier list.
Thanks to Bum, DK might go up to middle tier, as well.
I don't think DK will change positions relative to other characters, though. After all, Taj's mewtwo didn't affect the tier list.
I was just thinking they should do a metroid stage that is set on an elevator that periodically moves to a different area of Zebes or Talon IV, with different hazzards in each area. Like brinstar could just be a normal level, then it moves to norfair and there are lava pools on the sides of the elevator, then it moves to Tourian and metroids attack
Shinobix said:
Basically, the ranking of characters in relation to each other in the current metagame. Some crazy people don't believe tiers exist. Some not so crazy people realize no matter what happens, tiers will exist.
Well, unless every character played the exact same way, but a lot of people who hate tiers also hate clones (which don't play the exact same way, but play similarily) so who knows.
Bum is a great player, but that level of play is nothing new with DK play. I've played canada mike's and captain jack's DK at TG6, both were about as good. I mean I can't say who is better, but I'm just saying that style and level of play with DK is nothing new. You can watch videos from older tournaments to check it out. He's mostly effective against fastfallers as somebody else already mentioned. I remember watching ken lose to captain jack's dk, and this was back when ken was considered the best player (until he got like 3rd? the next day heh. lost to dsf in a huge upset)
As for the IC gameplay, a few players were playing them seriously and successfully before chudat's performance at tg6 opened everybody's eyes. vocal from ohio and josh(CORY) from dallas were big early players, helping spread a lot of the common combos and desyncing strategies used now.
I'm not even going to argue about the validity of tiers, I'm just so tired of it. If you think tiers are bullshit then to be honest, you're a complete ****ing idiot who will never be capable of critical thought. Or, to put it more accurately without hyperbole, you should be open minded and think about about it instead of just dismissing it before you even know what you're talking about.
Another thing I want to get off my chest, is I think the hatred of so-called "clone characters" is completely ignorant and irrational. They share similar animations, but that's it. Aside from doctor mario and mario, who are extremely similar, clone characters just look similar from a glance. There is nothing about them that detracts from the game, they're not stupid, they're not clones, they don't play the same, etc.
As for the IC gameplay, a few players were playing them seriously and successfully before chudat's performance at tg6 opened everybody's eyes. vocal from ohio and josh(CORY) from dallas were big early players, helping spread a lot of the common combos and desyncing strategies used now.
I'm not even going to argue about the validity of tiers, I'm just so tired of it. If you think tiers are bullshit then to be honest, you're a complete ****ing idiot who will never be capable of critical thought. Or, to put it more accurately without hyperbole, you should be open minded and think about about it instead of just dismissing it before you even know what you're talking about.
Another thing I want to get off my chest, is I think the hatred of so-called "clone characters" is completely ignorant and irrational. They share similar animations, but that's it. Aside from doctor mario and mario, who are extremely similar, clone characters just look similar from a glance. There is nothing about them that detracts from the game, they're not stupid, they're not clones, they don't play the same, etc.
Keru_Shiri
Member
I also don't understand the hatred of teirs or tournament play. By denouncing 1 on 1 no items matches, isn't that just as oppressive as people who'd rather not have 4 player free-for-alls?
Also, I'd rather have clones than no extra characters at all.
Also, I'd rather have clones than no extra characters at all.
Keru_Shiri said:
I think it completely tries to go the other direction than what Smash is. Smash is a party brawler, it's supposed to be hectic and unpredictable. When you take all the cool stages, cool items and other 2 players out of the mix you're stripping it down into a psuedo-street fighter. Might as well go the extra mile and do nothing but stamina melees.
I don't see why it's "wrong" to do that, though.Somnid said:
I mean, in terms of size and popularity, the competitive smash scene is probably 4th to Capcom vs. SNK 2, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, and Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike.
There's a LOT of depth to Smash. It can be played as a party game OR a competitive fighter, and, while I know a lot of the casual smash players tend to scoff at the idea, the fact of the matter is, Smash is extremely well designed and suitable for competitive play, and to say one way of playing is "better" than another is just being an elitist asshole.
I, personally, play both competitively and casually. I'll sometimes play with items, and I'll sometimes play competitively. When I play casually, I'll incorporate all the techniques and mastery of characters I learn from playing competitively (you know, wave dashing, teching, DI, and grabbing items out of the air while in mid-jump), but regardless of how I'm playing, I have fun.
The funny thing is, competitive smashers, at least those that I have come into contact with, DON'T look down on casual smash playing in the same way as the casual smash party brawlers look down on the competitive smash community.
Imperial Hot
Banned
Good god, the Yoshi's Island level looks amazing. Wow, the pastel art looks so freaking cool.
I want this game, really badly.
I want this game, really badly.
super funk
Member
Dark Ninja said:
Hell yes. Im glad somebody else mentioned it. My favorite level from the N64 game.
GaimeGuy said:
I never noticed that =O
Somnid said:
The edge game is one of the more important parts of Melee. Putting it to Stamina would defeat that. The thing is, Smash is meant to be both. Think about it. Why else would the Smash team program in things like teching, l-cancelling, crouch cancelling, directional influence, etc.?
Street Fighter and SSBM run on completely different game-engines. People who play SSBM over SF due so because of that. I love the aerial system of Smash.
snack said:
Yeah, I love the art-style of the stage. Hopefully Shy Guys won't be as annoying as that cloud. "CLOUD CLOUD CLOUD GODAMMIT WHERE WERE YOU YOU PIECE OF CRAP"
Too often, too often.GaimeGuy said:
Don't get me wrong, there is no "wrong" way to do it. You can play however you want I don't care, I mean that's the brillance. This is just my opinion. Obviously the reason why many tournament players might still like this is because that's all part of the intended design.
However, what I'm not keen of is these people who started some stupid club, decided their own rules and then had the tenacity to declare themselves the best. Among my circle of friends the standard is 4 player, 3-minute time, all items with medium drops, and random select. I'm not calling myself the best Smash player because I'm good at that match type. It's this elitest attitude that gets me the most, tournament play is way less than 1% of Smash Bros players but I really hate that they assume some sort of superiority because of it.
BrendenLee
Member
Somnid said:
This is an unfair stereotype of a significant amount of Smashers. All my competitive friends take a live and let live attitude to casual gamers. I've played at MLG and the top pros are accommodating and usually willing to give a hand to the novices. There isn't any tenacity towards casual gamers, this isn't Halo. Of course there are exceptions, but generally Smashers are quite friendly.
Somnid said:
Well, I'd say that the top players would be some of the best no matter what the game type. The mindgames would matter less, but most of them have crazy technical skill as well. And don't assume they assume some of of superiority
Like Brenden says, many of them are really nice people. There are of course some trashtalkers, but it's the exception not the rule.You know, while Stamina mode is still a pretty recent discussion point, I've thought for a while that they should add another mode that's a hybrid of Stamina and Stock, where you add up damage and knockback like in normal Stock, but can also finish the opponent by hitting some adjustable damage point. That'd be about as close to a standard fighting game as it could get, with both ring outs and KOs as winning methods. Not to say the mode would be greater or worse than Stamina by itself, or Stock by itself, but having more options is usually better.
I want a stock stamina where they respawn after the hit points run out I also want a few more seconds of control during the slow mo death, nothing is sweater than juggling them into the air as their stamino goes to zero and falcon punching the flying corpse off the stage. nothingJiggy37 said:
Keru_Shiri
Member
I see what your saying, and I agree, it's fun to play 4 man matches with items, but the main reason many people strip those elements out is to keep a sense of fairness. I'd feel kinda cheated if I layed down some cash to enter a tournament only to get screwed out of it because a bob-omb spawned right behind me (like it has 50,000 thousand ****ing times in 4 player matches with items). Tournaments should be about skill, and I believe a majority of the people who want to play competitivley would rather the random factors be taken out.Somnid said:
But that doesn't mean it's wrong to play all stages, all items.
Judging by some of the replies on this board (I won't point fingers) but that attitude seems to go both ways. Just as many of the casual people are lauding the tourney players for playing the game "incorrectly" as well.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
YI looks amazing.
I wish we had daily topics about this instead of one uberthread.
I wish we had daily topics about this instead of one uberthread.
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
AdmiralViscen said:
Daily topics = too much clutter. Just check recent posts here.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Yes, I do love the new YI style. I perfer it to the Yoshi Story stage at least.
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