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Smash Bros Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread: Goodbye, Cherry-don
- Thread starter ant1532
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Yeah, Jigglypuff is... not similar to Kirby in any way except for her tilt up, tilt forward, and forward smash. Everything else is entirely different, but the most notable thing is her unmatched aerial mobility; Kirby plays like a lead weight compared to Jigglypuff being smooth as butter.VindicatorZ said:
Mmm, buttered Jigglypuff.
...moving on.
Repeated back aerials. It's Jiggs' best aerial attack, with good range, good damage, good knockback, good priority, and basically zero lag, so finding an opening against it can get annoying for characters who aren't Marth (the sword hitbox works against Jigglypuff) or something.Cyan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZknGCSjgDMY
The player's not that great--at all (better than me, though)--and the video is really repetitive, but on short notice it works. The part from 1:40 is what I'd single out, I guess. There might be more after that, but I couldn't really bring myself to keep watching. Too much Jigglypuff on Ganondorf action.
Or another older (much older) video, PuffStuff... It's in there a couple times if you can handle the music.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/41865.html
75% of them aren't, statistically. >_>Scribble said:
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
ShockingAlberto said:
wow.. hahaha. That's owned x100.
Haunted
Member
Alberto's role in this thread has become to slap some goddamn sense into the other posters' wild speculation. :lol :lol
The mojo site's recent updates were disappointing, btw. Nothing good after Sonic
And Jigglypuff is totally similar to Kirby. They're both round and pink and small and and can jump/float several times, so there.
The mojo site's recent updates were disappointing, btw. Nothing good after Sonic
....BOOM!
And Jigglypuff is totally similar to Kirby. They're both round and pink and small and and can jump/float several times, so there.
Since we are talking Jigglypuff...
How useful DO you guys find "Sing" to be? It seems whenever I am able to even put someone to sleep, they wake up before Jiggly finishes the move. :/
Also with the "Sleep" move, what abilities do you use prior to this? Do you try to just run up to a player and use Sleep straight-away, or do you lead with something else and combo Sleep in?
Just some things about Jigglypuff I've always been curious about.
If she is in Brawl (which I'm sure she will be), I hope she still has that badass bandanna. >:O
How useful DO you guys find "Sing" to be? It seems whenever I am able to even put someone to sleep, they wake up before Jiggly finishes the move. :/
Also with the "Sleep" move, what abilities do you use prior to this? Do you try to just run up to a player and use Sleep straight-away, or do you lead with something else and combo Sleep in?
Just some things about Jigglypuff I've always been curious about.
If she is in Brawl (which I'm sure she will be), I hope she still has that badass bandanna. >:O
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
But Jigglypuff is better because she has one of my favourite attacks. That move where she rolls around when you hold down B can do some serious damage.Haunted One said:
ShockingAlberto
Member
The man put goddamn D-Pad controls in Meteos!
MrCheez said:Since we are talking Jigglypuff...
How useful DO you guys find "Sing" to be? It seems whenever I am able to even put someone to sleep, they wake up before Jiggly finishes the move. :/
Also with the "Sleep" move, what abilities do you use prior to this? Do you try to just run up to a player and use Sleep straight-away, or do you lead with something else and combo Sleep in?
Just some things about Jigglypuff I've always been curious about.
If she is in Brawl (which I'm sure she will be), I hope she still has that badass bandanna. >:O
I usually use sleep in the air, trying to sleep the enemies at the end of the move so I can link it with other attacks. It gets pretty useless if they sleep as soon as you perform the move. I'm not a very good Jigglypuff player, though.
Cosmonaut X
Member
Kjellson said:
Ah, you're right - I mistook the Bumper for the Franklin Badge and the Curry in pic 4 for a Metroid! :lol
JasoNsider
Member
Regarding jiggly's sing move, I'm fairly certain the potency is directly related to the damage level of the victim. The higher the percentage, the longer the sleep. It's great for finishing them off.
If you guys don't like the Mojo updates, submit your own =P It used to be headquartered at NSider, but now that that's closed the guy moved the topic over to SmashBoards.
Yeah, the higher their damage the longer they stay asleep. They also can't fall asleep if they're in the air, so a singing Jigglypuff is basically a sitting duck if you miss. Only way I've seen it used effectively is on the edge where they jump up, use sing, and fall down and grab the ledge so the sing gets cancelled.
JasoNsider said:
Yeah, the higher their damage the longer they stay asleep. They also can't fall asleep if they're in the air, so a singing Jigglypuff is basically a sitting duck if you miss. Only way I've seen it used effectively is on the edge where they jump up, use sing, and fall down and grab the ledge so the sing gets cancelled.
MrCheez said:
There is an risky technique that you COULD do but its risk far outweighs its reward. The gist of it is, you read your adversary, apply the appropriate spacing and Sing in just a way so that you put them to sleep and their attack hits you, thus waking you up. Really its much too hard to do. So other than that I suggest ledge canceling the move.
The easiest one is to grab a fastfaller (fox, falco, falcon), up throw and rest. Another easy one to do (since you will probably be playing against people who don't L-cancel), if you're at low damage, just crouch cancel and rest them. And there is always ducking some attack (mostly grabs) into a rest.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
I personally find the half-assed Mojo updates to be the funniest.
Forces them to be more satirical.
Good stuff.
Forces them to be more satirical.
Good stuff.
Firestorm said:
Also, I've noticed that most strategies where the opponents can wiggle free (or wiggle to significantly increase their chances of escape) aren't very good.
This includes Sing.
Yoshi's Standard Special.
Kirby's swallow and suicide tactics.
I'm really good at wiggling free (*edit Richard wahaha*). They should probably change the curve of the rate at which characters can wiggle free at higher percentages.
If that makes any sense to anyone.... congrats.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Dr.Hadji said:
That idea's not half bad actually...
Just don't ever use Sing, at least in SSBM. In the time it takes to use Sing you could have used at least three air kicks and that's if you don't even know how to L-cancel.
As for Rest... Besides what others mentioned, if you play on levels with breakable floors like the blocks in Yoshi's Island or the bricks in Mushroom Kingdom, you can down throw and use Rest as soon as the block breaks.
I have absolutely no idea if that's a hard-to-break combo because I, uh, don't play in those levels, but in any case I've seen it in a couple videos...
As for Rest... Besides what others mentioned, if you play on levels with breakable floors like the blocks in Yoshi's Island or the bricks in Mushroom Kingdom, you can down throw and use Rest as soon as the block breaks.
I have absolutely no idea if that's a hard-to-break combo because I, uh, don't play in those levels, but in any case I've seen it in a couple videos...
I'm trying to figure out what you mean here by context of what Peach and Jigglypuff have in common... >_> Are you saying they have too much freedom in the air compared to everyone else?Dr. Hadji said:
So I've been thinking...
Is anybody else going to miss these daily updates once the game comes out? I mean sure, we'll probably have the games by then and/or seen all the leaked footage, screens and spoilers about what characters are in and all the Subspace stuff by the time December 3rd comes around, so there wouldn't be much else to show off OF the game past then.
But still, I've really come to love this approach to showing the game off. It's like, every single tiny thing about the game has had time to settle in, one whole day for us to all analyze, speculate and discuss about it in particular, right before another small treat gets thrown our way the next (week)day. I really love it and it's definitely driven my interest into the game into fever pitch, perhaps moreso than Mario Galaxy even. And on top of that, it was something good to look forward to every morning!
It will be quite a tearful day when the final pre-release update rolls around. I bet it will simply be a note from Sakurai telling us to enjoy what they've worked on so hard for so long.
Is anybody else going to miss these daily updates once the game comes out? I mean sure, we'll probably have the games by then and/or seen all the leaked footage, screens and spoilers about what characters are in and all the Subspace stuff by the time December 3rd comes around, so there wouldn't be much else to show off OF the game past then.
But still, I've really come to love this approach to showing the game off. It's like, every single tiny thing about the game has had time to settle in, one whole day for us to all analyze, speculate and discuss about it in particular, right before another small treat gets thrown our way the next (week)day. I really love it and it's definitely driven my interest into the game into fever pitch, perhaps moreso than Mario Galaxy even. And on top of that, it was something good to look forward to every morning!
It will be quite a tearful day when the final pre-release update rolls around. I bet it will simply be a note from Sakurai telling us to enjoy what they've worked on so hard for so long.
I will be glad when I don't feel compelled to stay up until midnight for no real reason other than to see that Blissey is in Brawl.
Come to think of it, if Blissey is in Brawl this time, I'm going to feel a great urge to KO that thing every time it comes out of a Pokeball.
Come to think of it, if Blissey is in Brawl this time, I'm going to feel a great urge to KO that thing every time it comes out of a Pokeball.
Jiggy37 said:
Ya sure. Its not even the fact that their too good as to unbalance the game. Its the fact that, for most characters, the resulting match up is BORING. Jiggly spaces ad infinitum and if you manage to get off a hit she flies away and you start up the process again. There is no pressure from the edge, low chances to follow up hits with more hits (with alot of the characters). It just a long trudge.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
ShockingAlberto said:
I didn't even see this post!
First off, if someone tells me that "Sakurai" won't let something bad happen one more time, I will lose it. Enough of this evangelical crap.
Secondly, I've got much more basis for complaint here than you do for a lack thereof. At the game's unveiling, he mentioned how they would try for something "different" than the status quo of "motion sensing" games, and also mentioned that people shouldn't throw away their GameCube controllers. This is not "we will support GameCube controllers," it is "we are making a game for GameCube controllers."
I am not being unreasonable at all here. Believe me when I tell you, I could not be looking forward to this game any more than I currently am, but I simply find myself troubled by the fact that this is effectively a GameCube game. Yes it has a million more features and modes and characters and it's prettier than the GameCube could do and yadda yadda, but it wasn't just designed around the idea of "no motion controls," it's been designed around the idea of "GameCube controls." People have made the comment already earlier in this thread that the GameCube controller would be their preferred method if only because of c-stick usage. Supposedly offering functionality that wouldn't even EXIST on other controllers. If this isn't preferential controller treatment by the development team, I don't know what is.
I would just have been happier if the game was developed around the Remote/Chuck from the beginning. To the point, in fact, where it wasn't compatible with the GameCube controller at all. Yes, it may have been more "limiting," but the game design would have been built around that limitation from the start. Instead of having functionality that's designed around a controller that belongs to a completely different piece of hardware, instead of having a GAME that's designed around the ability to pull off moves that you might only be able to do with said controller, we'd have a game that actually evolved along with the hardware it was built on.
Imagine if Metroid Prime 3 was built around a GameCube controller, then crammed into a Wii Remote. In particular, imagine if they hadn't implemented beam stacking. There'd be a whole mechanic there that you could only adequately pull off with the GameCube controller.
People argued with me that the GameCube controller would be "superior" before, due to the c-stick. Where are those people now? Do you seriously not agree that it's a little odd for the "superior" way to play a game to be with a controller from the previous generation's hardware? A controller you might not even be able to BUY in the near future?
I just don't understand why people would be excited about the idea of playing a Wii game with a GameCube controller. If the GameCube controller is objectively better for the game, the developer made some pretty fucking weird decisions.
Yeah, I'll miss them as well. I'd like to say I hope this kind of thing is done for future games, but... well, to justify the effort, it would probably have to be a game on the order of Smash, and there aren't too many of those around. :/SovanJedi said:
What? No no, megaton. Believe.
Okay then.Dr. Hadji said:
That's actually kind of interesting, though, because a majority of my favorite past matches were myself as Jigglypuff against one of my friends as Peach. >_> I love my aerial battles.
In any case, since Sakurai and his team are trying to allow more aerial freedom, maybe Jiggs and Peach won't have too great a mobility in the air anymore compared to others.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Tathanen said:
People are not excited for this game because its for the Wii, they're excited because its a GOOD GAME (most probably). Not every single game on the Wii needs motion controls just like not every game on the DS needs stylus controls in order to be good.
Just relax, breathe and wait till the game comes out. My guess as of why they show off the GC controller more? Well Im sure anybody with a Wii can assume that the game supports Wii controllers, they might not be so sure that it supports GameCube controllers (cause you know, the majority of people who buy these games doesnt stay informed on these matters)
Plus, for some reason you're completely ignoring the Virtual Console controller (which is the EXACT SAME THING -sans rumble- so you can still play wirelessly), probably because it kills your argument but in any case it just sounds like complaining for complainings sake. They've added support for all controllers and they have most probably put a lot of effort into them, since the GC controls were already done and tried and thats much, much more effort into control schemes than any other game I can think of.
If you really think that GC control support is a bad idea and a bad design decision, then by all means, but that decision to give the player choices will only help the game sell more, not less. Neither of us has played the game, so what do we know, but you're saying having options is a bad thing, and game design wise, you're going to have a lot of people disagree with you on that one.
Tathanen said:OH, THANKS. PROBLEM SOLVED.
So wait, you're complaining because the game supports too many controller types?
Melee was quite versatile in that you could choose to either use the C-Stick or not use the C-Stick. Personally I never, ever, ever used the C-Stick for anything, but the choice to use it is appreciated nonetheless.
I don't get how you justify throwing a wobbly over a game which, by rights, should not use motion controls - if it does and it works well enough to be used, then that's fine. If you don't like that, then that's fine, use a traditional control method. But being angry over support for the Gamecube controller being there in the first place (not to mention how you can ramble SO GODDAMN MUCH EACH TIME YOU'VE POSTED ABOUT THE SUBJECT) makes no sense whatsoever.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
SovanJedi said:
Not exactly, he doesnt like the fact that Nintendo is presenting the GC configuration as the standard, meaning that the controls for the system in question (Wii) must be terrible.
At least thats my guess :\
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Raging Spaniard said:
I'm not talking about motion controls at all. Merely button mapping, no features designed that can only be done on a controller with two analog sticks. And hey, maybe cursor support in the menus.
The classic controller is irrelevant. I'll address this along with the next quote.
That's not what I'm saying at all. Having a million control schemes is fine! But the fact is, the only control schemes that will offer the "full experience" (defined as having a second analog stick, for arguments sake) are the GameCube controller and the Classic Controller. Neither come with the hardware. And besides, I don't really consider the classic controller that great of an option, due to the size and shape of its face buttons.
Let me be clear: if the Remote/Chuck combo could do EVERYTHING that the GameCube controller can do, then I wouldn't have a problem. But if there are c-stick moves that you simply can not do on the Remote/Chuck, then I consider that a design failing. It funnels all of the "real" and "hardcore" gameplay back to the GameCube or Classic controllers, each of which require an additional purchase.
It's not "preferential" controller treatment. There were no major complaints about SSBM's control scheme (unlike beam switching in Metroid Prime), so they probably had the goal in mind to retain all the previous functionality--and to do that, they needed all the buttons and sticks they had before. At least optionally.Tathanen said:
What else would you have had them do? Take out worthwhile options that existed in SSBB's immediate predecessor?
I guess you would...
...But here's the problem. People complain loads when a sequel doesn't add enough, never mind when it actually removes something that people liked that used to exist.
Tathanen said:
Has it ever occurred to you that whatever "full experience" offered by a second analogue stick could be mapped to the motion controls for the Wii Remote? You know, such hugely massive gameplay features like shifting the camera view in menus around a bit, or pulling off smash attacks that you can do normally except without the need to press a button at the same time?
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
SovanJedi said:
Hey, we're all operating on ignorance here in the first place. If people can claim that the GameCube controller is "superior" because of various functionality that they assume won't be in the other methods, I don't see why I can't use the same basis for my comments.
(Also, as was discussed previously, I'm not talking about those particular c-stick functions. Rather the ability to air-attack in a direction independent of your character's momentum.)
The nunchuk requires an extra purchase too (assuming you intend to have multiple controllers available), and costs the same as a classic controller. Does this mean that the game should be simplified so that the Wii remote on its own has all the functionality of the remote and the nunchuk together?Tathanen said:
And I'm being serious. By this logic, isn't it too advantageous to have an analog stick at all? The remote-only players will probably need to either press two buttons or double-tap.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Raging Spaniard said:
Damn, why would anyone care about how they're presenting things ?
Just pick whatever control scheme you see fit when you finally get to play the game.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Jiggy37 said:
I think it's probably fair to assume that "Remote and Nunchuck" is a basic configuration everyone with a Wii will already have--it's used by like 90% of the games out there already. Truly, the CC is the same price as a 'Chuck, but it's hardly as versatile. Someone who already has a multiplayer configuration likely has four remotes and 'chucks, but probably only one CC for their own private Virtual Console play.
Really, a good chuck of my arguments here are based on the economics of the whole scenario. Not all of it, but a chunk.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Tathanen said:
Better than buying four GBA's, plus cables, rite?
Tathanen said:
You're going crazy because we believe that the lead designer of this project, who's made it quite clear multiple times across multiple games that he likes to give options for multiple control schemes, will make this work?
Which is what made a ton of people, including me, relieved that Nintendo wasn't going to mash motion-sensing into every game just for the sake of motion-sensing. Smash is to the Wii as Mario Kart DS was to the DS.
Now you're just reaching. Guess what, 90% of fighters are best played by a controller that doesn't come packed in with the system. Most of them are best played with arcade sticks. In this case, the hardcore players will buy GCN controllers. Guess what? It doesn't matter. The vast majority of players WILL NOT CARE about what the GCN controller offers.
This is not a GCN game. It is a Wii game.
You do realize that all the C-Stick is is a macro right? The fact that it allows you to do aerials independant of movement is really more of a side-effect. A good side-effect and completely logical side-effect, but I assure you the majority of Smashers shouldn't even care.
The thing is, it wasn't. Because Metroid Prime 3 relies heavily on motion-sensing. If it relied on lock-on only with no motion sensing for shooting, then you'd have an argument. Although it would be easy to map the beams like they did for visors.
I don't find it odd at all really. I mean, it's easily playable with the WiiMote + Nunchuk, and it's only the hardcore player's who'll ever care about the advanced things. And I'd assume they'd probably have a GCN controller left over from before or to play GCN games on their new Wii. If they're really hardcore, then they probably attend tournaments and would NEED to have a wired GCN controller to play.
Newsflash time: Some of us don't give a damn about Wii's "innovation". Of my three favourite games on the Wii right now:
1. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption - used it well
2. Zelda: Twilight Princess - port of a GCN game
3. Trauma Center: Second Opinion - remake of a DS game
Why did I buy a Wii? For the new versions of my favourite franchises. I would have muchly preferred an HD system similar to the 360 or PS3, but I'll make do with what I have so I can play another Smash Bros, Zelda, and Metroid game.
I am absolutely ecstatic that they're using the GCN controller.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Man, so many people keep replying to me and addressing claims I never made. It's nothing to do with motion sensing, or "innovation," or any of that crap. Just button mapping! If you design the game around a controller with more buttons, you will likely end up with features that won't make their way into the schemes with fewer buttons! That is all!
That and what I just said about having to buy additional controllers!
GAF is brutal. :[
That and what I just said about having to buy additional controllers!
GAF is brutal. :[
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