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SNES vs Genesis Sound

The Genesis did one thing really well, and that was hard hitting synth style music. The Snes couldn't touch it if you were going for that sort of a soundtrack.

In general use, for actual sound effects and for most types of music the Snes killed it. I'd say overall, as a game machine the Snes sound was obviously superior (and came several years later) but that doesn't mean it will ever be able to do Streets of Rage.

And nothing on Genesis will ever touch the 16-bit-GOAT FFVI.
 
The Genesis did one thing really well, and that was hard hitting synth style music. The Snes couldn't touch it if you were going for that sort of a soundtrack.

In general use, for actual sound effects and for most types of music the Snes killed it. I'd say overall, as a game machine the Snes sound was obviously superior (and came several years later) but that doesn't mean it will ever be able to do Streets of Rage.

And nothing on Genesis will ever touch the 16-bit-GOAT FFVI.

The music in Pier Solar sounds way, way better than the music in FFVI

like, ignoring the subjective bits about opinion and all, the Genesis music is way richer and clearer and uses way more instruments

Kinda getting tired reposting the same links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIw6qetdhVk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MbyPP9Wahc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUmXhuma2XY

SNES games on real SNES hardware doesn't sound anything like that. You'd honestly believe what I posted was redbook audio.

I can't even find SNES music from real hardware on youtube, so all the comparison videos I can post would be unfairly kind to the SNES, but even with the benefits emulation brings audio, you can clearly see hear that the music above is way, way clearer than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb-Lhkm93pI
 
The music in Pier Solar sounds way, way better than the music in FFVI

like, ignoring the subjective bits about opinion and all, the Genesis music is way richer and clearer and uses way more instruments

Kinda getting tired reposting the same links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIw6qetdhVk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MbyPP9Wahc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUmXhuma2XY

SNES games on real SNES hardware doesn't sound anything like that. You'd honestly believe what I posted was redbook audio.

I can't even find SNES music from real hardware on youtube, so all the comparison videos I can post would be unfairly kind to the SNES, but even with the benefits emulation brings audio, you can clearly see hear that the music above is way, way clearer than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb-Lhkm93pI

Pier Solar uses the Sega CD. When it doesn't it sounds like shit from what I've heard. I'll listen to those later, it could be what you posted.
 
Pier Solar uses the Sega CD. When it doesn't it sounds like shit from what I've heard. I'll listen to those later, it could be what you posted.

It uses the Sega CD as a storage medium. The audio is playing through the Genesis.

If they could create a 700 MB cartridge, that's what it would sound like. None of the Sega CD hardware is being used.

This stuff can be done on a naked Mega Drive? If so then WOW

The only thing holding them back is the price of large cartridge storage. This is 100% Sega Genesis audio.
 
Then again, wow. Sounds awesome. Very impressive.

The guy who did the audio stuff for Pier Solar is TmEE. Around Sega demoscene circles, he is an audio god. His work isn't just limited to pumping incredible sounds out of games, he also is the guy who has created the crystal clear mod for the Genesis to produce perfect audio from any model Genesis.

I don't feel out of place saying he's probably the most knowledgeable person on the internet when it comes to discussing the ins and outs of Sega audio. I've explained a couple of times in this thread already, but what he's doing is playing really high quality samples through the PCM channel on the Genesis, which is what Tommy Tallarico did in his soundtracks. He uses a software mixer he wrote to pump many "channels" through the PCM channel at once.

The problem with PCM on both the Genesis and SNES is that the storage capacity of the cart limited the bitrate of the sample being played. The Genesis lacked any hardware to decompress audio on the fly, so PCM samples were stored uncompressed in the binary, making PCM samples extremely expensive to produce in cartridges. The "SE---GA!" noise at the beginning of Sonic 1 is over half of the size of the binary, for example.

If someone could produce a Sega Genesis cartridge with unlimited space, they could pump out lots of high quality music like that. What TmEE does is he uses the Sega CD as a storage medium to stream PCM from. The Sega CD itself has lots of audio hardware inside, namely the RF5C68 which gives the Sega CD 8 dedicated PCM channels, plus the ability to play redbook audio. Pier Solar doesn't use that - this music is being played solely by the Genesis YM2612 FM chip, simply using the Sega CD for storage.

There are other demos by people like Oreg who do similar things with large binaries that you can pop on a flashcart (and TmEE helped those people with the process) but I avoid posting them because they're not a flowery orchestral sound like Pier Solar, but rather techno music (which makes it sound more similar to "normal" genesis music).

Here is EWJ2 using the same technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7DZ5Utuq58

part of the reason this doesn't sound like Pier Solar is because only the percussion is PCM in this example while most of the song is FM, and the cart is only 24 megs (3MB) big, where Pier Solar uses PCM for multiple instruments at once, and has the benefit of 700 MB for sample sizes.
 
The music in Pier Solar sounds way, way better than the music in FFVI

like, ignoring the subjective bits about opinion and all, the Genesis music is way richer and clearer and uses way more instruments

Kinda getting tired reposting the same links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIw6qetdhVk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MbyPP9Wahc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUmXhuma2XY

SNES games on real SNES hardware doesn't sound anything like that. You'd honestly believe what I posted was redbook audio.

I can't even find SNES music from real hardware on youtube, so all the comparison videos I can post would be unfairly kind to the SNES, but even with the benefits emulation brings audio, you can clearly see hear that the music above is way, way clearer than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb-Lhkm93pI

I honestly think these examples pretty much wrap the argument up tbh. Regardless of the average output from each, the argument on what chip could output better audio is basically over.

and no, I don't consider dedicating the entire console to playing back a few samples counts. If you can't get it into a game, then its inadmissible.
 
The only thing holding them back is the price of large cartridge storage. This is 100% Sega Genesis audio.

Where are you getting the idea that Pier Solar's PCM soundtrack is played through the YM2612? Everything I've read suggests it's played by the Mega CD's Ricoh RF5C164.
 
The Streets of Rage music is indeed wicked, but this example here is generally how I remember the Genesis.

I think that, sadly, a lot of people are like that. The Genesis had some really awesome stuff. But it had some really ear-curdling stuff too. And a lot of people had those games for some reason it feels like.
 
Wait the only Illusion City I see is an interesting Sega CD game, someone help me out here

MSX2 and FM Towns too it looks like.

The FM Towns one sound amazing.

sörine;125094728 said:
It's an old Microcabin RPG. Originally on MSX (turbo R) it was later ported to FM Towns, PC-9801, X68000 and Mega CD.
Illusion City's high on my list of Japanese PC games needing a complete fan translation. The unfinished patch only covers six of the game's eight chapters, and the translation itself was done by individuals for whom English is a second language. This is one hell of a cyberpunk JRPG, and it deserves better given Micro Cabin's pedigree.
 
I think that, sadly, a lot of people are like that. The Genesis had some really awesome stuff. But it had some really ear-curdling stuff too. And a lot of people had those games for some reason it feels like.

The difference here is that I don't remember any SNES games making my ears bleed.

(Baby Mario in Yoshi's Island aside.)
 
It uses the Sega CD as a storage medium. The audio is playing through the Genesis.

If they could create a 700 MB cartridge, that's what it would sound like. None of the Sega CD hardware is being used.



The only thing holding them back is the price of large cartridge storage. This is 100% Sega Genesis audio.

To the best of my knowledge, you're incorrect. The Pier Solar CD is streaming samples real time through the Sega CD sound hardware. the clues are the way the music is stored in the disc and the meter in the sound test. The Pier Solar soundtrack is a full 3 discs (ignoring the remix disc). If that was all FM algorithm enhanced info, it could have been squeezed onto a one step up cart (say 72Megabits, still theoretically possible). The CD wouldn't have been necessary. Nor is it wave files. Even compresses the soundtrack would have been too big to fit on a single CD (with room to spare, I might add). The soundtest illustrates that when the CD music is active it's using the 8 PCM channels that the Sega CD had vs the 6 FM and 3 PSG channels the Genesis had. On the disc the music is about 200MB which for the sample sizes and size of soundtrack is about right...its pretty comparable to Lunar: Eternal Blue, except Pier Solar is in Stereo.

As for Pier Solar's FM version of its OST...honestly its pretty good.

I shake my head at the vehement hatred of the Genesis sound capabilities. the Yamaha chip was chosen for a reason...the vast majority of the arcade games of the time used FM synth, and the Genesis, because it used similar hardware ended up sounding pretty close. Sure it wasn't perfect ($200 in 1988/89 versus $1000+ arcade machine), but you got a decent facimile...and once in a while you even got something some people consider better:

Vapor Trail for example (one of the best FM lead guitar sounds I've heard, and I'm pretty picky about electric guitar sounds. Most of them both on Genesis or SNES suck. Vapor Trail, Thunder Force IV, Rock n Roll Racing and Battletoads-Double Dragon are the best ones in my opinion).


Aracde:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVMIPLX7IGI

Genesis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mxdZz7tGhI


That having been said Uncle Rupee asked what games compare in depth and instrumentation. He even dismisses Streets of Rage out of hand (which is hilarious...most SNES fanboys usually acknowledge those games at least) but we'll humor him here.

I'm not going to post examples because I'm considering full soundtracks. Youtube has all of what you need for the most part.

For Castlevania IV, I'd compare it to Shinobi III. While a number of differences both soundtracks have a measure of jazz overtones infused into them. CV4 is a more ambient combo jazz, whereas Shinobi III is more fusion. I'm more apologetic for CV 4 in general (I think its a perfectly fine game), and I really do like its OST (its one of my favorites, I think Konami outdid themselves on that one)...still I think Shinobi III compares favorably to it.

I'll skip Mega Man X because A) I'm not that familiar with the game or its soundtrack and B) I assume its uptempo rock which is something the Genesis is generally felt to excel at. i could be mistaken, but again A)...

Final Fantasy 3...Its a great OST, nobody reasonable says otherwise. Still, I'd actually put Shining Force II against it. Where FF 3 is mostly orchestral (Yes, there's some diversity in styles there for thematic purposes), Shining Force II is more like a military wind band (flutes and very heavy brass). Generally fitting the overall genre of a Strategy RPG and the semi-militaristic trappings of your group. That isn't to say there isn't diversity in the settings. There are various themes befitting locations both in and out of battle. FF3 is a bit more expansive, but SF II is definitely more kinetic (you spend longer "in battle.") I'll grant you I'd prefer FF3 in this case (personal preference), but I feel SF II compares favorably.

Chrono Trigger - Again I'll grant you its a great soundtrack...but so is Phantasy Star IV's soundtrack. In context of the game, the use of the more synthy elements works due to the sci-fi nature of the game. Still, its an RPG and in context there need to be tracks to represent towns, dungeons, battles, narration, ect. PS IV delivers with a memorable soundtrack.

Secret of Mana. this one is interetsing. The composer on this one did legwork that most of the others on the SNES didn't do and tried to tweak the drivers and change up the samples, so there were some unique sounds in this game. Against that I'd put Sword of Vermillion. Many people deride the game (I'm not one of them I've replayed this game multiple times)...but nobody derides the soundtrack. From the opening theme with its orchestra hits (why do people forget the base Genesis can do PCM playback on channel 6?), to the destruction of Excalibria, to the Death of Blade, the exploration of the lands, battling the monsters, to the Last City, to the confrontation with king Tsarkon and the closing credits. This OST is a true masterpiece.

For Actraiser...one Koshiro OST deserves another...Revenge of Shinobi (see, no Streets of Rage :P). With Actraiser Koshiro makes a decent stab at orchestral works (he has admitted that he wasn't very versed in orchestarl music at the time...that having been said, I'd say he did a decent job with it.) I feel Revenge is a better, more diverse soundtrack with tracks leaning from dance, to rock, to jazz, and even a bit of atonal (final labyrinth level).


Finally, I'll have to abstain from Tales of Phantasia...I'm honestly not familiar with that soundtrack either...though again, its very annoying that people forget that channel 6 can double as a PCM channel. Its technically possible to have a music track that has vocals and utilizing the other channels as their respective FM or PSG. no one ever bothered to do it, because such a thing was way easier on Sega CD.
 
The music in Pier Solar sounds way, way better than the music in FFVI

like, ignoring the subjective bits about opinion and all, the Genesis music is way richer and clearer and uses way more instruments

Kinda getting tired reposting the same links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIw6qetdhVk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MbyPP9Wahc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUmXhuma2XY

SNES games on real SNES hardware doesn't sound anything like that. You'd honestly believe what I posted was redbook audio.

I can't even find SNES music from real hardware on youtube, so all the comparison videos I can post would be unfairly kind to the SNES, but even with the benefits emulation brings audio, you can clearly see hear that the music above is way, way clearer than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb-Lhkm93pI

That does sound great.

I don't think the Genesis sound was garbage. Just different.

But are those samples for a game?

I'm basing my preference for SNES on the body of work on both systems, not a concept or music only experiment.

Would a talented musician/programmer produce similar results using a SNES with a CD attachment?

Again, I loved and and owned both systems, I just preferred most of the OST and sound effects on the SNES.
 
To the best of my knowledge, you're incorrect. The Pier Solar CD is streaming samples real time through the Sega CD sound hardware. the clues are the way the music is stored in the disc and the meter in the sound test. The Pier Solar soundtrack is a full 3 discs (ignoring the remix disc).

The soundtrack you're talking about is redbook audio recordings of the music being played. The enhanced CD is 1 single CD big.

If that was all FM algorithm enhanced info, it could have been squeezed onto a one step up cart (say 72Megabits, still theoretically possible). The CD wouldn't have been necessary. Nor is it wave files. Even compresses the soundtrack would have been too big to fit on a single CD (with room to spare, I might add). The soundtest illustrates that when the CD music is active it's using the 8 PCM channels that the Sega CD had vs the 6 FM and 3 PSG channels the Genesis had. On the disc the music is about 200MB which for the sample sizes and size of soundtrack is about right...its pretty comparable to Lunar: Eternal Blue, except Pier Solar is in Stereo.

the audio isn't FM algorithm enhanced info, it's streaming PCM. You appear to have contradicted yourself here:

Nor is it wave files.

The soundtest illustrates that when the CD music is active it's using the 8 PCM channels

Waveform audio is PCM. Wave is just microsoft's name for PCM.

The channels you are seeing aren't coming from the Sega CD, it's being mixed in software and played through 1 of the FM channels being dedicated to PCM on the Genesis.

TmEE doesn't have a neogaf account, but I'll hit him up and see if he'll write something up for this topic.

That does sound great.

I don't think the Genesis sound was garbage. Just different.

But are those samples for a game?

I'm basing my preference for SNES on the body of work on both systems, not a concept or music only experiment.

Would a talented musician/programmer produce similar results using a SNES with a CD attachment?

Again, I loved and and owned both systems, I just preferred most of the OST and sound effects on the SNES.

The above music is from Pier Solar, a full RPG released on the Genesis a few years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUg-tD2M8jo
 
I'm certain the hardware differences played a role in how the sounds were synthesized on both systems, but I feel like comparing the music from both is too difficult.

Genesis had awesome "arcade like" soundtracks with thumping bass and a lot of buzzy-gritty-synthy sounds. The music seemed very "western" (Genesis music is like the spiritual successor to Commodore64 and Amiga music IMO) and I like a lot of the Genesis soundtracks just because of how ballsy they were. Personal example: Hellfire. The Level 1 track is gritty and buzzy and bass as hell, but it just feels so darn cool.

SNES certainly had "arcade like" soundtracks. However, I feel like those tracks that everyone remembers (like the numerous RPG OSTs or the soundtracks to the Donkey Kong Country games) were starting to push into the CD-quality realm that eventually came to be on the PS1. I mean, DKC specifically. You just DON'T have ANYTHING on Genesis that can compare to the ethereal quality of Aquatic Ambience. Games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy had pretty good approximations of bells and strings and whatnot.

Then again, you have stuff like Phantasy Star 4's soundtrack, or even the intro tune to PSIII (which is one of my favorite Genesis songs) or Shining Force II. IMO those compare very favorably against SNES RPGs.

Arrrrggg! I can't pick!
 
A few comments:

Waveform audio is PCM. Wave is just microsoft's name for PCM.

Sorry I wasn't specific. When I said "Wave" I meant an entire music track which all its instrumentation in that context, not just a sample. I know they're technically the same thing as far as sound files go.

The channels you are seeing aren't coming from the Sega CD, it's being mixed in software and played through 1 of the FM channels being dedicated to PCM on the Genesis.

TmEE doesn't have a neogaf account, but I'll hit him up and see if he'll write something up for this topic.

That would be good...some of what you're saying is contradicting some of what I remember from when I was following the development of PS and the conversations after its release. I recall complaints about the Sega CD and the limits on its memory for samples...its also possible he's (or Tiido perhaps) already written something and its buried somewhere on Sega-16
 
I sent TmEE a private message, he normally replies pretty quickly. Incidentally, TmEE is Tiido, lol. Perhaps you were confusing him with Tulio? Or did I read your response incorrectly?
 
If someone could produce a Sega Genesis cartridge with unlimited space, they could pump out lots of high quality music like that. What TmEE does is he uses the Sega CD as a storage medium to stream PCM from. The Sega CD itself has lots of audio hardware inside, namely the RF5C68 which gives the Sega CD 8 dedicated PCM channels, plus the ability to play redbook audio. Pier Solar doesn't use that - this music is being played solely by the Genesis YM2612 FM chip, simply using the Sega CD for storage.

Sorry but this is a really stupid argument then. If Pier Solar requires the CD storage space for its audio samples, then you can't make direct comparisons to SNES music (limited to the cartridge). If the SNES had a similar add-on it could easily use the CD's storage space for its samples too to achieve who knows what. The point is, the Genesis / Megadrive without using tricks like that sounds worse in most game-to-game comparisons.

I did a quick search on YouTube and couldn't find any music from the game that doesn't use the CD audio enhancement, if you can link me to some I'd appreciate it.
 
The difference here is that I don't remember any SNES games making my ears bleed.

(Baby Mario in Yoshi's Island aside.)

I have a feeling it was very easy to access those sounds. I have this vague recollection reading somewhere that early documentation on how to use the chip led to a lot of what we heard that was scratchy and high pitched or tinny, but I do not at all remember where that was or exactly what was said. I'm going to try and find it now, but if anyone has knowledge on that, please, chime in.
 
I sent TmEE a private message, he normally replies pretty quickly. Incidentally, TmEE is Tiido, lol. Perhaps you were confusing him with Tulio? Or did I read your response incorrectly?

What I meant not what I said :p

Forgot an "as"

Don't know if he'd posted it using Tiido or TmEE (assuming he wrote something succinct that I missed when PS came out...which is perfectly possible).

hopefully that clears up what I'd meant

(I am sucking at communicating today :\ I should probably just get off the internet and go play Legend of Heroes: TitS till bedtime)
 
Sorry but this is a really stupid argument then. If Pier Solar requires the CD storage space for its audio samples, then you can't make direct comparisons to SNES music (limited to the cartridge). If the SNES had a similar add-on it could easily use the CD's storage space for its samples too to achieve who knows what. The point is, the Genesis / Megadrive without using tricks like that sounds worse in most game-to-game comparisons.

first up:

There are other demos by people like Oreg who do similar things with large binaries that you can pop on a flashcart (and TmEE helped those people with the process) but I avoid posting them because they're not a flowery orchestral sound like Pier Solar, but rather techno music (which makes it sound more similar to "normal" genesis music).

Second, someone posted a video of the SNES trying to do the same thing and output 32khz audio... and it took up every resource on the system to do so.
 
first up:
Second, someone posted a video of the SNES trying to do the same thing and output 32khz audio... and it took up every resource on the system to do so.

I fail to see what difference that makes given that the only Genesis game to use this trick is a homebrew that came out years later. If we're talking about what most gamers experienced using just the systems (and no add-ons like the Sega CD since the SNES didn't have that) then the SNES wins every time. Second, whether something is a certain khz or not may matter to audiophiles who can hear the difference but I'm guessing most people wouldn't notice the difference.
 
Sorry but this is a really stupid argument then.

Geez, you requested examples of OSTs on par with your SNES list & Armoured Preist just put on a clinic for you a few posts back, at least go read it!

Original games too, not rushed ports which should never be metric of anything.
 
I fail to see what difference that makes given that the only Genesis game to use this trick is a homebrew that came out years later. If we're talking about what most gamers experienced using just the systems (and no add-ons like the Sega CD since the SNES didn't have that) then the SNES wins every time.

God you're terrible at reading

I don't feel out of place saying he's probably the most knowledgeable person on the internet when it comes to discussing the ins and outs of Sega audio. I've explained a couple of times in this thread already, but what he's doing is playing really high quality samples through the PCM channel on the Genesis, which is what Tommy Tallarico did in his soundtracks. He uses a software mixer he wrote to pump many "channels" through the PCM channel at once.

Here is EWJ2 using the same technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7DZ5Utuq58

part of the reason this doesn't sound like Pier Solar is because only the percussion is PCM in this example while most of the song is FM, and the cart is only 24 megs (3MB) big, where Pier Solar uses PCM for multiple instruments at once, and has the benefit of 700 MB for sample sizes.
 
FM synthesis does a few things and does them really well. Faithful emulation of acoustic instruments is not one of those things.

Sample synthesis is far more versatile, but was really held back by cartridge limitations and the SPC chip itself.

The definitive Genesis soundtrack for me is Doom. Yes, I know Doom 32X sucked ass. But this is what it could have sounded like if the developers had properly sequenced the songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brBQVcf37Xc

Raw brutality. Game-ass game music that we were used to from the 8-bit days. While the SNES sample tech has been all but relegated and long since surpassed, FM synthesis lives on in chiptunes as a sound more iconic than the sometimes muffled and overly reverberated sounds of the SNES. That's where the Genesis really shines.

Still, the SNES wins by a landslide from the sheer breadth of sounds it was able to produce. Nothing ever tops the Mana soundtracks.

Seiken Densetsu 3 OST - 51 - Electric Talk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V2g4tXYxeg

It's odd you used one of the Kikuta OSTs, as he worked his ass off to make that chip make those specific, "3D sound" for those. In that way, they're the most Genny-like composition efforts on the system.
 
...



I even provided an example.

And it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the Pier Solar examples you posted. They're not even in the same ballpark. Or do you think it is? LOL
The EWJ2 music may qualify as some of the better music on Genesis but it doesn't hold a candle to any of the SNES games I listed before, either technically or compositionally.
 
Geez, you requested examples of OSTs on par with your SNES list & Armoured Preist just put on a clinic for you a few posts back, at least go read it!

Original games too, not rushed ports which should never be metric of anything.

Hey, I knew I was butting my head against a brick wall. He's already made up his mind based off of biased information...and that's fine. (It's one of the things helping to keep Genesis/Mega Drive prices down so Shhhhhh :p)
 
Hey, I knew I was butting my head against a brick wall. He's already made up his mind based off of biased information...and that's fine. (It's one of the things helping to keep Genesis/Mega Drive prices down so Shhhhhh :p)

Pfft, I probably own more Genesis games than you do. I like the Genesis but in terms of music it sucks compared to the SNES, and it can't even produce as many colors as the Turbo. I'm arguing you shouldn't be linking tracks from Pier Solar's audio enhancement CDs in comparison to cartridge games, and I'm the one with the bias?
 
And it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the Pier Solar examples you posted. They're not even in the same ballpark. Or do you think it is? LOL
The EWJ2 music may qualify as some of the better music on Genesis but it doesn't hold a candle to any of the SNES games I listed before, either technically or compositionally.

What makes you qualified to talk about what any of the songs you posted are doing "technically?" You haven't made a single detailed post in this topic. Extrapolate your experience that allows you to gauge what is being done "technically"?
 
What makes you qualified to talk about what any of the songs you posted are doing "technically?" You haven't made a single detailed post in this topic. Extrapolate your experience that allows you to gauge what is being done "technically"?

And you are? You're comparing the output of the Genesis with the added channels of the Sega CD and the added storage capacity of three discs to cartridge games.
 
And you are? You're comparing the output of the Genesis with the added channels of the Sega CD and the added storage capacity of three discs to cartridge games.

I'm TheSonicRetard, I'd wager at least a few in this topic know who I am.

EDIT: Your post is full of misinformation. The reason I'm posting Pier Solar is because it's not using the added audio channels of the Sega CD, it's using the Sega Genesis' audio output. Nor is it the storage capacity of "three discs."
 
Surprised there hasn't been a "SNES sound chip sure is great" thread.

Would really like to hear some stuff. Well, outside of the usual OSTs of course (FF, CT, SoM, etc)
 
EDIT: Your post is full of misinformation. The reason I'm posting Pier Solar is because it's not using the added audio channels of the Sega CD, it's using the Sega Genesis' audio output. Nor is it the storage capacity of "three discs."

from the video description:
This is the CD version of the title theme in the Genesis/Mega Drive RPG Pier Solar that plays if you have a Sega CD connected.

So I will ask again, what does Pier Solar sound like without these CDs and Sega CD connected? Links please

Oh here's an example. Sounds like typical Genesis stuff, nothing special and certainly not as good as the SNES RPGs everyone is familiar with.
 
I don't really care who you are, your arguments are invalid because you're comparing apples to oranges.

If you wanna go that route, then, the preference of apples to oranges or vice versa is purely subjective. You can't say one is better and have that statement ring as an absolute fact. Some people may prefer one over the other for a multitude of reasons.
 
Pfft, I probably own more Genesis games than you do. I like the Genesis but in terms of music it sucks compared to the SNES, and it can't even produce as many colors as the Turbo. I'm arguing you shouldn't be linking tracks from Pier Solar's audio enhancement CDs in comparison to cartridge games, and I'm the one with the bias?

1) You may or may not. I've had my Genesis since 1990 that I bought with my own money that I worked for. I try to keep my collection in a manageable range because I own 19 other systems and carts are a pain to move. I've played most of the US releases and a fair number of the Japanese releases though. That having been said...that's kind of not as important as you think it is in a discussion regarding sound capabilities of 4th generation hardware

2) That is your opinion. You're entitled to it. i disagree (as do a number of others) and i remain unconvinced by your "arguments."

3) What's your point? The TG-16 could animate in some contexts faster then either the Genesis or the SNES. That is a non-sequitur and has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

ninja edit before I was done typing 4) A number of SNES (and even NES back in the day) use add on chips to expand capabilities. on the SNES, for example Star Ocean's enhance chip allowed for greater compression which enabled more sprite and other info to be put onto the cart. The music and voice samples indirectly benefited from this increased storage potential. While smaller in scope, logically its not really that different.
 
The SNES sound totally surpass the Genesis'. All the little sound details in soundtracks like the Donkey Kong Country series are what make those magical compared to the more generic Genesis sound.
 
I don't really care who you are, your arguments are invalid because you're comparing apples to oranges.

Every comparison of sample-based music from the SNES to FM Synthesis music from the Genesis is apples to oranges, but you don't have any problem making that comparison.

I'd put forth my argument with detailed explanation of my stance. You just don't like it because it doesn't hold up to your narrative about the SNES.
 
Every comparison of sample-based music from the SNES to FM Synthesis music from the Genesis is apples to oranges, but you don't have any problem making that comparison.

I'd put forth my argument with detailed explanation of my stance. You just don't like it because it doesn't hold up to your narrative about the SNES.

And you can't post a single game other than Pier Solar that sounds the way it does with the audio enhancer. That's like comparing SNES superfx games to Genesis with the 32X add-on. Really stupid comparison to make, isn't it?
 
Surprised there hasn't been a "SNES sound chip sure is great" thread.

Would really like to hear some stuff. Well, outside of the usual OSTs of course (FF, CT, SoM, etc)

Well, that would mean that people would actually have to play games that aren't the system's "marquee" titles...
 
That's like comparing SNES superfx games to Genesis with the 32X add-on. Really stupid comparison to make, isn't it?

Not really. Why do you think that's a stupid comparison to make? I'd personally compare Super FX games to SVP chips, but I don't find the comparison very stupid at all. They're both using math co-processors. You sound like someone who doesn't have an ear or eye for technical detail, which makes me wonder why you've wandered into a technical discussion.

Fun fact: For the cost of every SuperFX game released, you could have bought a 32X and the equivalent number of 32X games thanks to the inflated cost of Super FX games.

P.S. Can you quit calling things you don't like, "stupid"? It's aggravating and a poor argument to boot.
 
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