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SNES vs Genesis Sound

Sonic 2 multiplayer is 480i 30fps. if I'm not mistaken. Whereas almost any other game was standard 240p 60fps.

Hybrid 240p/480i games were somewhat common in the SAT/PSX/N64 generation, btw.

Marceles said:
The SNES and Genesis versions of Street Fighter pretty much sum up how much better SNES's sound was
Click to expand...
TrevHead said:
I do agree the SNES version of SF2 is closer to the arcade original though.
Click to expand...
Oh? Check out the beta tracks.

Ryu theme:
Arcade
SNES
Genesis (beta)
Genesis (final)

Ken theme:
Arcade
SNES
Genesis (beta)
Genesis (final)

The retail version was scaled back hard, supposedly to make room for enough sound channels to handle the sound effects and to save on storage space in general. The high-tempo heavy damage variations were cut out completely.

richisawesome said:
Arcade SSF2 wins over all.
Click to expand...
CPS1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> CPS2
 
I would the SNES has objectively a better sound chip. If you think the Genesis is better, you are wrong. Your nostalgia might brainwash you to prefer the Genesis, and that's fine. But your tastes are embarrassing when facing the onslaught of DKC1+2, FFVI, CT, SMRPG, etc. If your mind has been conditioned to find the synth noises out of the Genesis to be pleasurable that is fine, but the chip is still inferior.

I really like the music from Sonic 3 + Knuckles though. But even in its own year of 1994, it was up against DKC and FFIV not to mentioned Super Metroid (which took a more atmospheric approach).

I'll also acknowledge some multiplatform games sounded better. But that is due to a failure of the programmers to take advantage of the SNES SPC.
 
dark_prinny said:
Listen to this

http://youtu.be/yjdVflSHxN4
Click to expand...

I love the drums in that track.

Also I could post just about any track from Mega Turrican here: The game had an amazing soundtrack:

Stage 5-1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59TfMJfS5XY


Tom Nook Sawyer said:
Yep, I edited my post since I found that too when double-checking. But I wonder if the SNES couldn't have done similarly?
Click to expand...

The SNES's high resolution mode was pretty much garbage for actual game environments. It was limited to only 16 colours total. Higher colour standard resolution layers could be overlayed over top (RPM Racing shows this), but in the end the SNES's high resolution mode didn't amount to much outside of higher resolution menu's and text.
 
From Shining in the Darkness, the second half of the game.

This is one of my favorite Genesis tracks ever, though the audio sounds closer to basic NES square waves than something that really uses the synth well like SOR2 or whatever.

The interesting thing about it is that it's going for something that's clearly out of Genesis's league, trying for a medieval march feel, something you'd probably want instrument samples for, but I think it pulls it off admirably. The flutes are really well done, and even the synth horns come across nicely.

My favorite part is the bit 33 seconds in. This music was such a great reward for reaching that part of the game.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
The retail version was scaled back hard, supposedly to make room for enough sound channels to handle the sound effects and to save on storage space in general. The high-tempo heavy damage variations were cut out completely.
Click to expand...
Those beta tracks sounds a lot better. I'm guessing the samples are digital since they had to be scaled back for sound effects.
 
MrCunningham said:
The SNES's high resolution mode was pretty much garbage for actual game environments. It was limited to only 16 colours total. Higher colour standard resolution layers could be overlayed over top (RPM Racing shows this), but in the end the SNES's high resolution mode didn't amount to much outside of higher resolution menu's and text.
Click to expand...

I'll profess ignorance, but is there a difference between rendering a game at a particular resolution and displaying it a one lower (as Sonic 2 supposedly did) as opposed to rendering at a higher resolution AND displaying it at that resolution?

If so, then the comparison between Sonic 2 and the SNES's hi-res mode may not be entirely comparable.
 
Tom Nook Sawyer said:
I'm guessing you're referring strictly to the CPU? Is that actually true? I know the Genesis runs at a higher clockspeed, but that means almost nothing when it comes to such vastly different architecture.
Click to expand...

Yup, the CPU itself. General consensus is that the Motorola 68000 in the Genesis is notably more powerful than the Ricoh 5A22 in the SNES. While the VDPs of each console come into play and I'm pretty out of my depth on their roles, I'd say that, on average, the best-looking Genesis games are visually busier than the best-looking vanilla no-chip SNES games in terms of sprite count and parallax layers. Obviously SNES has Mode 7 and the bigger color palette on its side, though, and that goes a long way.
 
Tom Nook Sawyer said:
I'll profess ignorance, but is there a difference between rendering a game at a particular resolution and displaying it a one lower (as Sonic 2 supposedly did) as opposed to rendering at a higher resolution AND displaying it at that resolution?

If so, then the comparison between Sonic 2 and the SNES's hi-res mode may not be entirely comparable.
Click to expand...
Sonic 2 multiplayer runs at 320x480. No smoke and mirrors involved.

And whether it was running in normal mode or 2x interlaced mode, the horizontal resolution was still greater.
 
Tom Nook Sawyer said:
I'll profess ignorance, but is there a difference between rendering a game at a particular resolution and displaying it a one lower (as Sonic 2 supposedly did) as opposed to rendering at a higher resolution AND displaying it at that resolution?

If so, then the comparison between Sonic 2 and the SNES's hi-res mode may not be entirely comparable.
Click to expand...

Edit: Sorry, was stupid. All "high rez" modes back then was interlaced.
 
Crisium said:
I would the SNES has objectively a better sound chip. If you think the Genesis is better, you are wrong. Your nostalgia might brainwash you to prefer the Genesis, and that's fine. But your tastes are embarrassing when facing the onslaught of DKC1+2, FFVI, CT, SMRPG, etc. If your mind has been conditioned to find the synth noises out of the Genesis to be pleasurable that is fine, but the chip is still inferior.

I really like the music from Sonic 3 + Knuckles though. But even in its own year of 1994, it was up against DKC and FFIV not to mentioned Super Metroid (which took a more atmospheric approach).

I'll also acknowledge some multiplatform games sounded better. But that is due to a failure of the programmers to take advantage of the SNES SPC.
Click to expand...

you're really disgracing that beautiful avatar of yours.
 
Persona7 said:
Both can be great in the right hands.
Click to expand...

MightyHedgehog said:
Man, this topic is quarterly now...haha. The eternal struggle. Sixteen-bit Sega is my champion in this war and can never quite be done justice unless hearing that sound being generated on an actual early model unit with nice headphones plugged right into that hole of stereo-synth love. SNES has its undeniable highpoints, but nothing on that hardware ever energized or infected me like great use of the Genny did.
Click to expand...

Beaten to my own opinions. SNES probably did orchestrated music the best in it's time, but Genesis is the reason I fell in love with techno-esque music. Sometimes I think it's more than just my Sega-upbringing that favors YT SNES or Genesis-style remixes.

Crisium said:
I would the SNES has objectively a better sound chip. If you think the Genesis is better, you are wrong. Your nostalgia might brainwash you to prefer the Genesis, and that's fine. But your tastes are embarrassing when facing the onslaught of DKC1+2, FFVI, CT, SMRPG, etc.
Click to expand...

If you're talking about music + sound effects, I can't argue as I haven't played all of those yet. If you're arguing music, the bolded I could easily follow up with games like SoR 2, Sonic 1-3&K, CZ, Shinobi III, etc. as per my opinion, and I do believe my list blows yours out of the water. But that's just my opinion though; "your tastes are embarassing" is taking it too far.
 
Marceles said:
The SNES and Genesis versions of Street Fighter pretty much sum up how much better SNES's sound was
Click to expand...


The SNES version had clearer voices, but the Genesis music was better and more faithful to the arcade version imo. The SNES version sound remixed to me instead of trying to emulate the arcade version. From what I've heard, the Capcom arcade sound chip and the Genesis chip were closer to each other. SNES did normally handle orchestrated music better, but I think the Genesis handled techno, rock-style and gritty sounding music better generally.
 
Rhazer Fusion said:
The SNES version had clearer voices, but the Genesis music was better and more faithful to the arcade version imo. From what I've heard, the Capcom arcade sound chip and the Genesis chip were closer to each other.
Click to expand...

Being more faithful to the arcade does not make it better :)
 
Sixfortyfive said:
Sonic 2 multiplayer is 480i 30fps. if I'm not mistaken. Whereas almost any other game was standard 240p 60fps.

Hybrid 240p/480i games were somewhat common in the SAT/PSX/N64 generation, btw.



Oh? Check out the beta tracks.

Ryu theme:
Arcade
SNES
Genesis (beta)
Genesis (final)

Ken theme:
Arcade
SNES
Genesis (beta)
Genesis (final)

The retail version was scaled back hard, supposedly to make room for enough sound channels to handle the sound effects and to save on storage space in general. The high-tempo heavy damage variations were cut out completely.


CPS1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> CPS2
Click to expand...

"Close" does not equal better. The PC version of ST had superior sound, but was heavily remixed, and much different from the arcade track when compared with the arcade version, or the SNES version of SSF2. I happened to have the genesis version of CE, and SNES versions of WW, hyperfighting, SSF2, and the PC version of ST. One need only listen to 1 or 2 voice samples from the genesis version to know that the sound quality of CE is MILES behind the SNES version of WW, hyperfighting, or SSF2 iterations.
 
andymcc said:
you're really disgracing that beautiful avatar of yours.
Click to expand...

Ha, I don't hide from the truth. To be honest I'm amazed someone would debate SNES vs Genesis sound anymore. It's just so accepted that the SNES is better in that department. The Mega Drive has two advantages: CPU and Resolution (most of the time). But the SNES has better sound and more graphic capabilities. It's not 1992 anymore, I thought this was all common knowledge.

Now, multiplatform games are still hotly contested - and rightfully so. But otherwise SNES vs Genesis is pretty clear cut.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
Oh? Check out the beta tracks.

Ryu theme:
Arcade
SNES
Genesis (beta)
Genesis (final)

Ken theme:
Arcade
SNES
Genesis (beta)
Genesis (final)

The retail version was scaled back hard, supposedly to make room for enough sound channels to handle the sound effects and to save on storage space in general. The high-tempo heavy damage variations were cut out completely.
Click to expand...
And the reason of why it was scaled back is because MegaDrive's apu is technically inferior, i really hope we aren't arguing that.
 
Crisium said:
Ha, I don't hide from the truth. To be honest I'm amazed someone would debate SNES vs Genesis sound anymore. It's just so accepted that the SNES is better in that department. The Mega Drive has two advantages: CPU and Resolution (most of the time). But the SNES has better sound and more graphic capabilities. It's not 1992 anymore, I thought this was all common knowledge.

Now, multiplatform games are still hotly contested - and rightfully so. But otherwise SNES vs Genesis is pretty clear cut.
Click to expand...

... And a Yamaha YM2612 FM sound chip. In the right hands both systems can sound great but I think the SNES was overall easier to work with. But the BASS those early genesis models could put out was just so addictive.
 
palpabl_purpura said:
"Close" does not equal better. The PC version of ST had superior sound, but was heavily remixed, and much different from the arcade track when compared with the arcade version, or the SNES version of SSF2. I happened to have the genesis version of CE, and SNES versions of WW, hyperfighting, SSF2, and the PC version of ST. One need only listen to 1 or 2 voice samples from the genesis version to know that the sound quality of CE is MILES behind the SNES version of WW, hyperfighting, or SSF2 iterations.
Click to expand...

The technical reason for that was that the SNES sound chip supported ADPCM compression. Thanks to that you could store higher quality samples in less ROM space. SSF2 on the Genny was 40 MBit, compared to 32 on the SNES, yet the SNES had better samples.

This was repeated with the PS1 vs Saturn. The Saturn had a very impressive audio chip, that was overshadowed by the PS1 supporting ADPCM. CD can store much more data than cartridge, but the audio still had to fit into half a meg RAM, and the PS1 could fit more.
 
Crisium said:
Ha, I don't hide from the truth. To be honest I'm amazed someone would debate SNES vs Genesis sound anymore. It's just so accepted that the SNES is better in that department. The Mega Drive has two advantages: CPU and Resolution (most of the time). But the SNES has better sound and more graphic capabilities. It's not 1992 anymore, I thought this was all common knowledge.

Now, multiplatform games are still hotly contested - and rightfully so. But otherwise SNES vs Genesis is pretty clear cut.
Click to expand...

Specs are meaningless. You're comparing a sampler to an analog synth. One lets you plop a few notes down at different pitches, the other is a complex tool that gives you an incredible amount of control over the tiniest details.
 
Just thinking back, I miss how different consoles could be. SNES is not universally better than the Genesis. Saturn - PSX - N64 all varied wildly in 2D, Sound, 3D. The 360 and PS3 fought a good battle between a better GPU vs a fuller Cell CPU.

The Xbone is inferior to the PS4 in every way. Boring. Well, if that ESRAM can do magic then that's the only hope. And magic clouds.
 
Crisium said:
Just thinking back, I miss how different consoles could be. SNES is not universally better than the Genesis. Saturn - PSX - N64 all varied wildly in 2D, Sound, 3D. The 360 and PS3 fought a good battle between a better GPU vs a fuller Cell CPU.

The Xbone is inferior to the PS4 in every way. Boring. Well, if that ESRAM can do magic then that's the only hope. And magic clouds.
Click to expand...

Well, the Wii U has a tablet screen. :) That's like the SNES with its extra face button, select button, and L/R triggers.
 
Crisium said:
Ha, I don't hide from the truth. To be honest I'm amazed someone would debate SNES vs Genesis sound anymore. It's just so accepted that the SNES is better in that department. The Mega Drive has two advantages: CPU and Resolution (most of the time). But the SNES has better sound and more graphic capabilities. It's not 1992 anymore, I thought this was all common knowledge.

Now, multiplatform games are still hotly contested - and rightfully so. But otherwise SNES vs Genesis is pretty clear cut.
Click to expand...

I too thought this was accepted. The genesis was released 2 years prior to the SNES. It's naturally going to be the weaker system.
 
Crisium said:
The Xbone is inferior to the PS4 in every way. Boring. Well, if that ESRAM can do magic then that's the only hope. And magic clouds.
Click to expand...
Isn't the Xbone is quieter? That could honestly be the deciding factor for what console to go for down the road, assuming price parity. I miss the days of when consoles made no noise at all.

Even the damn 5200RPM HDD in my PS3 is too noisy IMO.
 
andymcc said:
not objectively better... just different
Click to expand...

Nintendo sat on the SNES hardware for a while, so it's not really two years newer.

That the SNES have better graphics is more of a myth. Genesis games have fewer colors, but higher resolution and less slowdown. That the SNES has better games is likely more a result of bigger budgets and talented developers.

Had Sega and Nintendo exchanged hardware I think we'd be discussing the superior "Genesis" graphics.
 
Tom Nook Sawyer said:
I'll profess ignorance, but is there a difference between rendering a game at a particular resolution and displaying it a one lower (as Sonic 2 supposedly did) as opposed to rendering at a higher resolution AND displaying it at that resolution?

If so, then the comparison between Sonic 2 and the SNES's hi-res mode may not be entirely comparable.
Click to expand...

Well, here's an example of one SNES game that used the SNES's high resolution mode, RPM Racing

Radical%20Psycho%20Machine%20Racing%20%28U%29.png


This was probably the first SNES game to use 512×448 on the SNES. The BG layer is running at 512×448, but as you can see with the dithering, it is also limited to a pallet of 16 colours total. The foreground layer with the vehicles is running on the standard SNES resolution of 256 × 224 using a higher colour mode. The HUD resolution is also the same as the vehicle layer.

Now here is RPM's sequel Rock N' Roll Racing:

U8sKoeh.png


RnR Racing runs entirely at 256 × 224 (but I stretched this image out to 512×448 myself) The backgrounds are lower resolution than RPM's but are a lot more colorful. The vehicles are at the same resolution for both games.

Other than having some smother looking background environments, the tradeoff isn't really that great at all for RPM Racing. If they stuck the vehicle layer onto the same resolution ad the BG, it would be limited to that same 16 colour palette as well. The game would look like a high resolution NES game on steroids.

Sonic 2 two player mode doesn't mix and match resolutions like this on different layers, it just flat out runs the game twice vertically at 480x320.
 
notBald said:
That the SNES has better games is likely more a result of bigger budgets and talented developers.
Click to expand...

I think this also is because of a change in tastes of then vs. now. unquestionably the SNES did slower, more deliberately paced genres better than genesis, like adventure and RPGs, that benefited from bigger budgets and sampled symphonic sounding scores. those sorts of games are more popular with modern players than the shooting, action and arcade titles of the genesis.
 
Might aswell throw this Iwadare tune up here since it's so good

Gynoug 4-2

andymcc said:
I think this also is because of a change in tastes of then vs. now. unquestionably the SNES did slower, more deliberately paced genres better than genesis, like adventure and RPGs, that benefited from bigger budgets and sampled symphonic sounding scores. those sorts of games are more popular with modern players than the shooting, action and arcade titles of the genesis.
Click to expand...

Agreed, you would only think the SNES had JRPGs the way so many modern gamers act.
 
Tiny, little Smooth McGrooves were sitting inside my SNES and sung beautiful, unforgettable tracks that were just so much better sounding than what the Genesis was capable of. I wouldn't say that the SNES was the better console but the soundchip is really no contest.
 
Tom Nook Sawyer said:
Same thing with Sega--both waited about a year to release them in the states, so the 2-year gap is pretty accurate
Click to expand...

The Mega Drive was released in October 1988, the Super Famicom in November 1990. What I'm saying is that the SNES hardware was ready some time in 1989. It was mentioned in an article about Super Mario World's development, but I can't find it right now.
 
notBald said:
Nintendo sat on the SNES hardware for a while, so it's not really two years newer.

That the SNES have better graphics is more of a myth. Genesis games have fewer colors, but higher resolution and less slowdown. That the SNES has better games is likely more a result of bigger budgets and talented developers.

Had Sega and Nintendo exchanged hardware I think we'd be discussing the superior "Genesis" graphics.
Click to expand...

Oh boy. What has time done to people's minds. SNES had 4x the color palatte (256 vs 64), could display larger sprites, and more simultaneous sprites. Advanced effects like Mode 7 was apparent in 1st gen games (Super Ghouls and Ghosts). Slowdown was a problem early, but genesis games had slowdown as well.
 
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