Support NeoGAF

[Fredrik]

Hmm
Super Metroid is my favorite game of all time.
But I've only played the PAL version...
I'm not sure what I want them to do with it regarding optimization

50 hz - the slower version I know and love
or
60 hz - the faster original version I've never even seen on video
I'd probably choose the 50 hz version

 

[also]

Hmm
Super Metroid is my favorite game of all time.
But I've only played the PAL version...
I'm not sure what I want them to do with it regarding optimization

50 hz - the slower version I know and love
or
60 hz - the faster original version I've never even seen on video
I'd probably choose the 50 hz version

Once you experience the difference, you will probably never want to go back to 50Hz. It happened to me with Smash Bros. Melee.

 

[Jucksalbe]

50 hz - the slower version I know and love
or
60 hz - the faster original version I've never even seen on video
I'd probably choose the 50 hz version

Try something new for once.

 

[Neff]

Hmm
Super Metroid is my favorite game of all time.
But I've only played the PAL version...
I'm not sure what I want them to do with it regarding optimization

50 hz - the slower version I know and love
or
60 hz - the faster original version I've never even seen on video
I'd probably choose the 50 hz version

The PAL version was altered to run at the correct speed iirc.

If you played the NTSC version, the only differences you'd notice are that it runs smoother, has a correct aspect ratio, and no European subtitles.

 

[Fredrik]

The PAL version was altered to run at the correct speed iirc.

If you played the NTSC version, the only differences you'd notice are that it runs smoother, has a correct aspect ratio, and no European subtitles.

Ah, good to hear then it doesn't really matter what version they choose as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Jucksalbe]

I made a video of the European Kirby. I will say, the framerate feels a bit lacking, like an emulator running with frameskip. But just a little. It doesn't feel horribly slow, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EiWU-UrC-0

Kirby is actually running in 60Hz. At least the English version is. Maybe 50Hz is only for the translated ones?

Edit: Can someone check this, please? My TV shows 60Hz, but it now does that for Balloon Fight, too. And that definitely wasn't 60Hz. I'm pretty sure it said 50Hz before. I'm confused.

 

[Neff]

The Wii U runs at 60hz, and every game on it likewise.

When we refer to 50hz, it's a crude, rather misleading shorthand for the way games ran on old European 50hz consoles. Your Balloon Fight is being sent to the TV at 60hz, but the game's code is emulating the speed, refresh rate, and aspect ratio of 50hz, because Nintendo assumes that's how we remember and prefer it in 2013.

In the case of Kirby's Adventure, the control of Kirby and scrolling speed is near-identical between PAL and NTSC (I checked side-by-side) as the original PAL version was adjusted, however the enemy movement and music are slower on PAL. It also lacks the smoothness and responsiveness of the NTSC version. The aspect ratio is expanded vertically, but is still not correct.

It's playable enough, but pretty shitty compared to the superior, cheaper US version.

 

[Robin64]

Kirby is actually running in 60Hz. At least the English version is. Maybe 50Hz is only for the translated ones?

Edit: Can someone check this, please? My TV shows 60Hz, but it now does that for Balloon Fight, too. And that definitely wasn't 60Hz. I'm pretty sure it said 50Hz before. I'm confused.

Balloon Fight did always say 60Hz. That's just the base output of the Wii U though, a game can still be running at 50Hz within it. If that makes sense..

Edit: What Neff said.

 

[Jucksalbe]

But I could swear that......oh well. Don't really care that much about Kirby anyway. But that means it'll probably be the same for Super Metroid.

Btw. wasn't there a German version for Kirby's Adventure? I at least got the English version from the German store. Or do they finally look at your system language?

 

[Heropon]

Oh, bummer, I was really excited for 60Hz Super Metroid. They should let us choose the version we want.

 

[raschi]

Oh man. Since the Wii U outputs at 60hz anyway, they introduce extra stuttering by repeating every 5th frame. Authentic PAL experience my ass.

 

[Neff]

Oh man. Since the Wii U outputs at 60hz anyway, they introduce extra stuttering by repeating every 5th frame. Authentic PAL experience my ass.

It looks like that is exactly what is happening. It would explain the vague lack of responsiveness, too.

 

[Kron]

Thats really backward considering the last couple they made an effort to put out the 60hz versions.

Nintendo Europe stink. I hope it bombs and they get the message.

 

[21st century cowboy]

I'll be really cheesed off if Metroid isn't 60mhz.do the right thing NoE

 

[Dash Kappei]

Hmm
Super Metroid is my favorite game of all time.
But I've only played the PAL version...
I'm not sure what I want them to do with it regarding optimization

50 hz - the slower version I know and love
or
60 hz - the faster original version I've never even seen on video
I'd probably choose the 50 hz version

Wow, how sad. There are still people like you out there? I've always thought Nintendo's reasoning was just an excuse, instead there really are people so crazy to want to play deliberately inferior version of their games. :/
Hopefully nobody will ever ask for your advice on anything regarding video games.

 

[Neon_Icarus]

Hmm
Super Metroid is my favorite game of all time.
But I've only played the PAL version...
I'm not sure what I want them to do with it regarding optimization

50 hz - the slower version I know and love
or
60 hz - the faster original version I've never even seen on video
I'd probably choose the 50 hz version

Take my word for it: I played the 50hz version as a kid too,
but after I bought a Super Famicom a few years ago and
played the game in 60hz, there is no going back.

It just feels infinitely superior.

 

[Neo Child]

get to miiverse! thats how they listen!

 

[Fredrik]

Wow, how sad. There are still people like you out there? I've always thought Nintendo's reasoning was just an excuse, instead there really are people so crazy to want to play deliberately inferior version of their games. :/
Hopefully nobody will ever ask for your advice on anything regarding video games.

lol wow I'm sure you're a fun guy to be around. My only reason for thinking this way is called: nostalgia. I just want the game I love to look and feel the way I remember it. If you can't understand that then you don't know what nostalgia is. It would be great though if they could include both the NTSC and PAL version on all their games. That way I can choose the original PAL version whenever I want or choose the NTSC version if I wanted that.

 

[netBuff]

lol wow I'm sure you're a fun guy to be around. My only reason for thinking this way is called: nostalgia. I just want the game I love to look and feel the way I remember it. If you can't understand that then you don't know what nostalgia is. It would be great though if they could include both the NTSC and PAL version on all their games. That way I can choose the original PAL version whenever I want or choose the NTSC version if I wanted that.

That's why I always connect my console to an old, small CRT TV with the top section of the screen discoloured: Playing the games just like I remember them!

Let's be real: To deliberately prefer 50 Hz versions is absurd.

 

[Fredrik]

That's why I always connect my console to an old, small CRT TV with the top section of the screen discoloured: Playing the games just like I remember them!

Let's be real: To deliberately prefer 50 Hz versions is absurd.

Well, yes, nostalgia is kind of absurd :/ I have my Amiga 500 connected to the same Philips8833 monitor that I had as a kd, tried it on a newer screen too but nope, doesn't feel "right".

 

[Neff]

My only reason for thinking this way is called: nostalgia. I just want the game I love to look and feel the way I remember it. If you can't understand that then you don't know what nostalgia is. It would be great though if they could include both the NTSC and PAL version on all their games. That way I can choose the original PAL version whenever I want or choose the NTSC version if I wanted that.

I respect your view, and I'm a very nostalgic person myself. And I played almost every 8bit and many 16bit games for the first time in 50hz, and I had a blast.

But for the purposes of preservation, fuck nostalgia. Why buy Blade Runner on Blu Ray when I can fish that old pan-and-scan VHS out of the cupboard? Because the former is maginitudes better.

Thing is, I didn't stop playing those old games once I was done with them. I've continued to play them over the years, and still do, because I love them. I want them to be the best they can be, the way they're supposed to be, and aside from Nintendo's stubbornness, there's no technical or legal reason they can't sell them to me on Wii U.

I think anyone who doesn't realise just how bad a deal PAL territories get should read this.

http://www.destructoid.com/feel-the-hatred-pal-conversions-102886.phtml

 

[Xun]

I think anyone who doesn't realise just how bad a deal PAL territories get should read this.

http://www.destructoid.com/feel-the-hatred-pal-conversions-102886.phtml

I knew there were differences, but I never realised it was this bad.

Is there a site showing the differences between PAL and NTSC versions of the games? I'm mostly curious as to how things were during the fifth and sixth generation.

 

[SMD]

I knew there were differences, but I never realised it was this bad.

Is there a site showing the differences between PAL and NTSC versions of the games? I'm mostly curious as to how things were during the fifth and sixth generation.

If it wasn't PAL optimised, it was shit. Playing Mario Kart 64 PAL was like being introduced to a sad, depressed little brother.

EDIT: Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er67im9RlHI

 

[BGBW]

When I got my PS2 late I decided to check out game people had been talking about on the forums. One title that popped up was Devil May Cry so I thought I'd find a second hand copy and see for myself. Oh my jilly jilly gosh is the conversion terrible. See GameCube wasn't so bad because it supports 60Hz mode so I hadn't realised the most popular console of the generation was still plagued by this. Good thing DMC1 is super cheap second hand. I'll admit I'm not always aware of it if I don't have a side by side comparison but from the word go this game felt off.

And it's kind of funny to read that Sega's Dreamcast was the first to make an effort to support PAL60 when years later they'd release Mad World that in 50Hz only.

If it wasn't PAL optimised, it was shit. Playing Mario Kart 64 PAL was like being introduced to a sad, depressed little brother.

I always wondered why people enjoyed Rainbow Road in MK64, only to find out later they weren't racing on a track that takes 10 years to complete a lap.

 

[Neff]

I knew there were differences, but I never realised it was this bad.

Is there a site showing the differences between PAL and NTSC versions of the games? I'm mostly curious as to how things were during the fifth and sixth generation.

There's a bunch of video links in my OP.

Like the article above says, the PAL FFX was particularly bad.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Good thing DMC1 is super cheap second hand. I'll admit I'm not always aware of it if I don't have a side by side comparison but from the word go this game felt off.

IIRC DMC1 was actually the straw that broke the camels back for Capcom fans (you would thing it was the 2D fighters) and after that Capcom stopped releasing 50Hz only games. Though I might be rather wrong.

 

[JCH!]

And here I was thinking we'd won after we got F-Zero at 60Hz

 

[Neff]

IIRC DMC1 was actually the straw that broke the camels back for Capcom fans (you would thing it was the 2D fighters) and after that Capcom stopped releasing 50Hz only games. Though I might be rather wrong.

Every PAL Capcom game on Dreamcast except for RECV and Power Stone had a 60hz option. Soul Calibur had a 60hz option. Fast forward to the PS2 and for some reason Capcom and Namco are putting out locked 50hz games for it.

And here I was thinking we'd won after we got F-Zero at 60Hz

You never win with PAL gaming, you merely temporarily alleviate the misery.

I know, I should have bought a US Wii U.

 

[Katsuragi]

Good news: All games which are part of the Wii U VC launch line-up seem to run in 60hz.

Super Mario World (Nintendo, €7.99 / £5.49) — Widely regarded, including in our own staff votes here on Nintendo Life, as the best Super NES title and the finest of Mario's 2D adventures. Whether you agree with that or not, most will happily admit that this is classic platforming from start to finish. This is the 60Hz US version of the game.

Ice Climber (Nintendo, €4.99 / £3.49) — Reminiscent of a time of more simplistic, arcade-style titles on the NES, this is a franchise that's been dormant for a long time, though the characters have become famous in Smash Bros. In truth this one can feel loose and awkward to play, so is perhaps for die-hards only. __This is the 60Hz US version of the game._

Mario's Super Picross (Nintendo, €7.99 / £5.49) — We've become largely accustomed to playing Picross on the go, so this is a relatively rare home console version from the Super NES. There's little to say apart from the fact that it's a well executed version of the game, as you fill out pictures on a grid by following the numbered cues; certainly one for fans of the genre to strongly consider. This is the Japanese version of the game.

Donkey Kong Jr. (Nintendo, €4.99 / £3.49) — Rather like Ice Climbers, this harks back to arcade-style origins, in this case with single screen action puzzle solving. A notable twist is that Mario is the villain in this game, and in short bursts can be fun, but up against some of its rivals it can feel like a clunky, flawed experience. This is the 60Hz US version of the game.

Excitebike (Nintendo, €4.99 / £3.49) — This bike racer has seen recent life as a free 3D Classic, but it arrives on Wii U in its original NES glory. It's simple but iconic racing fare with a modest number of tracks, but the track editor should give it some extra life. This is the 60Hz US version of the game.

Punch Out!! (Nintendo, €4.99 / £3.49) — This one has already been in the Famicom Anniversary celebrations at €0.30 / £0.30 for a limited period. If you did miss out this is your second chance, albeit at a much higher price, to pick up one of the true iconic classics of the NES library. You can see what we thought of the experience on Wii U in our Punch Out!! review. This is the 60Hz US version of the game.

F-Zero (Nintendo, €7.99 / £5.49) — Another title that's been available at a bargain price until recently, this is one of the finest futuristic racer you'll find, and still stands up today. High speed action with terrific visuals and music, you can read all about it in our F-Zero review. This is the 60Hz US version of the game.

Source: Nintendo Life

 

[BGBW]

So should I just cave in and get Kirby or should I carry on a protest that will likely not be noticed?

 

[Jucksalbe]

Nice, and it seems Europe really does get Picross at VC launch.

So should I just cave in and get Kirby or should I carry on a protest that will likely not be noticed?

Buy it (it's 30ct...) and then protest on Miiverse.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

So should I just cave in and get Kirby or should I carry on a protest that will likely not be noticed?

I didn't buy it. I have so many games to be played that I can easily skip anything Nintendo wants to release in 50hz. Even for 30p. There's no point in saying we wont buy 50hz games if you buy this with the knowledge that it's a 50hz game.

Nintendo will assume that it's just a vocal minority who care about this and their sales records will back them up.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Good news: All games which are part of the Wii U VC launch line-up seem to run in 60hz.

Balloon Fight isn't a lunch title...odd. Would have been a perfect opportunity to show they are preapred to update it to run correctly...

 

[Cosmonaut X]

£8.46 in upgrade fees for me. There'll be games later on I'm not interested in doing that for, but this launch batch are all ones I want to have GamePad play/Miiverse/save states for.

Now let's see if Nintendo can keep this release pace up...

EDIT:

...and given that these are all 60hz versions, that's an added incentive to upgrade my existing Wii VC versions.

 

[Ein Bear]

Awesome news! Makes the upgrade fees much easier to swallow when you're getting a superior version of the game.

 

[NinjaCatfish]

I am generally unbothered by 50Hz versions of games. I'll always choose a 60Hz mode where possible, but 50Hz doesn't make me gouge my eyes out.

The times where it does matter to me is where I am more familiar with the timing of a US version, (Castlevania for example), and the PAL version wasn't sped up to compensate for the different refresh rates. Trying to play Castlevania PAL when you're used to the music of the NTSC version is kinda awful.

Something like Kirby's Adventure however, which to me plays the same whether you're using a PAL or NTSC cart, I can deal with.

 

[SMD]

So hang on Nintendo.

Because my Wii is NTSC, I can't system transfer to my PAL Wii U to get my VC games on there.
But the VC games you're releasing are NTSC.

But I can't upgrade. Because I can't system transfer.

Even though it's the same.

*sigh*

 

[D-e-f-]

So hang on Nintendo.

Because my Wii is NTSC, I can't system transfer to my PAL Wii U to get my VC games on there.
But the VC games you're releasing are NTSC.

But I can't upgrade. Because I can't system transfer.

Even though it's the same.

*sigh*

Seriously? This wasn't obvious to you? What did you think the words region locked meant?

 

[raschi]

I am generally unbothered by 50Hz versions of games. I'll always choose a 60Hz mode where possible, but 50Hz doesn't make me gouge my eyes out.

The times where it does matter to me is where I am more familiar with the timing of a US version, (Castlevania for example), and the PAL version wasn't sped up to compensate for the different refresh rates. Trying to play Castlevania PAL when you're used to the music of the NTSC version is kinda awful.

Something like Kirby's Adventure however, which to me plays the same whether you're using a PAL or NTSC cart, I can deal with.

But "optimised" 50hz games on Wii U are compromised twice over. First they have to skip every 6th frame to get the original speed, and then the Wii U duplicates every 5th frame outputting the games at 60hz, adding even more choppiness. So the games are actually choppier than we remember them. Incredible really.

Actually I'm not even sure how they optimise these games anyway. Do they just speed up the gameworld and keep animation frames for characters intact, making character animation slower, or do they skip frames for everything?

 

[deleted]

Yeah, so that's a dilemma...

I think 8 EUR ist far too expensive for a straight SNES port, but I have fond memories for Mario's Picross from back in the day.

Super Mario World for the reduced port price is a no brainer though - and 60hz makes it so much better!

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Good to see that the launch games are 60hz. Wonder if they'll "update" Balloon Fight and Kirby later on.

 

[SMD]

Seriously? This wasn't obvious to you? What did you think the words region locked meant?

I didn't have a choice. I was living abroad when I bought my Wii and came back to the UK a few years ago.

There's no reason for accounts to be region locked.

 

[D-e-f-]

I didn't have a choice. I was living abroad when I bought my Wii and came back to the UK a few years ago.

There's no reason for accounts to be region locked.

But that's just it: there is no account on your Wii.

 

[Morfeo]

This news is so awesome! I might start to get more virtual console games now

 

[Neff]

Good news: All games which are part of the Wii U VC launch line-up seem to run in 60hz.

I intend to reward this wonderful extension of good sense.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

This news is so awesome! I might start to get more virtual console games now

Might want to hold off on getting too excited and see where they take things from here. We thought they'd finally gotten things right with F-Zero and Punch-Out. There's plenty of time for them to Kirby things up.

 

[also]

Might want to hold off on getting too excited and see where they take things from here. We thought they'd finally gotten things right with F-Zero and Punch-Out. There's plenty of time for them to Kirby things up.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Super Metroid.

 

[Morfeo]

Might want to hold off on getting too excited and see where they take things from here. We thought they'd finally gotten things right with F-Zero and Punch-Out. There's plenty of time for them to Kirby things up.

Lol, you are right. How this can be so difficult for them, is hard to understand though.

 

[Neff]

I have no doubt that if something like LttP or Super Metroid gets released in 50hz, worlds will collide.

God, I can't wait for Super Mario World.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

I have no doubt that if something like LttP or Super Metroid gets released in 50hz, worlds will collide.

God, I can't wait for Super Mario World.

Its likely to happen to both due to French and German. They might have also been "optimised" as well to make them not work properly at 60Hz (and still work badly at 50Hz) which would have been the best fix to this conundrum.