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Clickbait Business Cringe So, Evilore

Barsinister

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I had an interaction with the great David Jaffe on twitter, and he seemed to believe, a while ago, that NeoGAF was full of alt righters as well. I told him that was false.
Don't speak his name out loud or even spell it. Dude lives for attention.
 

ROMhack

Member
Jul 14, 2018
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Oh, we're asking stuff. Cool

EviLore EviLore You got any good book recommendations for community management, or website resources. That kind of thing.
 
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Stouffers

Member
Oct 17, 2017
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I had an interaction with the great David Jaffe on twitter, and he seemed to believe, a while ago, that NeoGAF was full of alt righters as well. I told him that was false.
Exactly. You’re not going to get “industry elite” to interact with neo-NeoGAF if they believe it might sully their name/company. It’s just not worth the risk. Gaf needs a good PR group, huge charity event or something to fight the perception.
 

-Arcadia-

Gold Member
Aug 20, 2019
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Exactly. You’re not going to get “industry elite” to interact with neo-NeoGAF if they believe it might sully their name/company. It’s just not worth the risk. Gaf needs a good PR group, huge charity event or something to fight the perception.
As long as we’re saying things that they don’t agree with, we’ll be alt-right nazis.

Playing their game, isn’t the way to win. We just need to keep being who we are, from the users to the administrators. The truth tends to outshine the lies in the end, and looking at Gaf’s growth, and Reset’s plunging reputation, that’s exactly what’s happening.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
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Exactly. You’re not going to get “industry elite” to interact with neo-NeoGAF if they believe it might sully their name/company. It’s just not worth the risk. Gaf needs a good PR group, huge charity event or something to fight the perception.
GAF needs neither. Word of mouth is what is important. ERA and its "supporters" have shown their asses time and again. More and more high profile members of society are calling out against this insanity (such as former president Obama). They are a joke within the industry and sites like Kotaku, Polygon, and its contemporaries are losing viewership and clicks and are becoming more and more of a joke. Even non-gamers are learning their bullshit.

GAF just needs to keep doing what it has been doing since the exodus. Improving and fostering a community of gamers who care about games, have open discussions, and don't start pathetic limp-dicked witch hunts like Jason "Sorceress is pedo" Schreier and Era does.
 
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Scopa

The Tribe Has Spoken
Oct 27, 2017
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your mind
Exactly. You’re not going to get “industry elite” to interact with neo-NeoGAF if they believe it might sully their name/company. It’s just not worth the risk. Gaf needs a good PR group, huge charity event or something to fight the perception.
David Jaffe did come here and post after the exodus.

I don’t think we need gaming celebs here though. We have a great community already.

Changing topic, someone maybe tongue-in-cheekly asked Evilore in another thread if he had considered trying to get on the Joe Rogan Podcast. After initially thinking the idea ridiculous and unobtainable, I thought about it a bit more and found the concept intriguing.

Initially I thought that Rogan wouldn’t even entertain the idea. Our little drama being a non-issue in his world, but after further thought, I realised he has had many guests on that I had never heard of and the way the NeoGAF enema happened and the reasons for it intersect with a lot of topics Joe likes to touch on.

Sorry for my ramblings, but out of curiosity, would you be interested in attempting to get a JRE interview EviLore EviLore ?
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
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May 30, 2004
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David Jaffe did come here and post after the exodus.

I don’t think we need gaming celebs here though. We have a great community already.

Changing topic, someone maybe tongue-in-cheekly asked Evilore in another thread if he had considered trying to get on the Joe Rogan Podcast. After initially thinking the idea ridiculous and unobtainable, I thought about it a bit more and found the concept intriguing.

Initially I thought that Rogan wouldn’t even entertain the idea. Our little drama being a non-issue in his world, but after further thought, I realised he has had many guests on that I had never heard of and the way the NeoGAF enema happened and the reasons for it intersect with a lot of topics Joe likes to touch on.

Sorry for my ramblings, but out of curiosity, would you be interested in attempting to get a JRE interview EviLore EviLore ?
Not interested in being in the public spotlight right now. Just looking to focus on the work. Maybe some day, though.
 

matt404au

Cyberbully
Apr 25, 2009
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I am extremely confused on the moderation policy regarding personal attacks on users on this forum.
This blind obsession with stamping out “personal attacks” and insults is doing more harm than good and is laying the groundwork for much worse behaviours. What do you think is more of a personal attack? An unfounded smear of GAF as a hateful safe haven for nazis, or a refutation of that smear with an expletive thrown in? Playing the game of false civility tilts the playing field in favour of devious cretins who will say one thing to your face and another behind your back. People like you are the reason the US has Donald Trump as president.
 

nush

Member
Oct 16, 2017
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I am extremely confused on the moderation policy regarding personal attacks on users on this forum.
If someones being a dick, it's OK to call them out for being a dick. There's still a line, so don't take it too far or dogpile.
 
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Corrik

Member
Jan 20, 2018
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This blind obsession with stamping out “personal attacks” and insults is doing more harm than good and is laying the groundwork for much worse behaviours. What do you think is more of a personal attack? An unfounded smear of GAF as a hateful safe haven for nazis, or a refutation of that smear with an expletive thrown in? Playing the game of false civility tilts the playing field in favour of devious cretins who will say one thing to your face and another behind your back. People like you are the reason the US has Donald Trump as president.
Pretty sure they both can be. Yeah, if moderation says personal attacks will be moderated and that is what they look for, I find it weird when they seem wholly ignored when done blatantly.

Treating people you converse with on a forum with respect isn't exactly a hard thing to accomplish.

Seeing that run rampant is absolutely a deterrent to some people wanting to be here.

If you determine I am somehow attacking something with my arguments that you don't like you are going to incessantly tell me how I am a stupid fucking cunt over and over? We make fun of ResetERA for doing this at things they don't like. Like the Police or anyone who does anything not liberal.

Yet, is it much better when you do it? I just personally don't see what you gain from it and why the moderation is supposedly looking for that but continues to ignore it blatantly being done. I can only think it is because you are a Gold user, but supposedly, that isn't supposed to matter when it comes to moderation. So, again, I am wholly confused by the moderation of it.

I just need clarified I suppose because I don't understand the policies clearly!
 

matt404au

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Pretty sure they both can be. Yeah, if moderation says personal attacks will be moderated and that is what they look for, I find it weird when they seem wholly ignored when done blatantly.

Treating people you converse with on a forum with respect isn't exactly a hard thing to accomplish.

Seeing that run rampant is absolutely a deterrent to some people wanting to be here.

If you determine I am somehow attacking something with my arguments that you don't like you are going to incessantly tell me how I am a stupid fucking cunt over and over? We make fun of ResetERA for doing this at things they don't like. Like the Police or anyone who does anything not liberal.

Yet, is it much better when you do it? I just personally don't see what you gain from it and why the moderation is supposedly looking for that but continues to ignore it blatantly being done. I can only think it is because you are a Gold user, but supposedly, that isn't supposed to matter when it comes to moderation. So, again, I am wholly confused by the moderation of it.

I just need clarified I suppose because I don't understand the policies clearly!
I am curious as to why you are less concerned with the guy smearing GAF as a Nazi safe haven than with me calling him a cunt for doing so.
 

Corrik

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I am curious as to why you are less concerned with the guy smearing GAF as a Nazi safe haven than with me calling him a cunt for doing so.
The dude is like literally banned. I don't see how refuting his statement required you to incessantly personally attack someone. I don't see what value you added to your argument. Ad hominem is just a poor way of arguing.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
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Context always matters. Take two people in an argument. One stays civil, the other escalates hard and starts pushing buttons. The other person eventually cracks and lashes out. Do you take action toward the guy who lashed out, and not the other party that was baiting them into it? That's a strict application of rules without nuance that doesn't make much sense, and what we try to avoid here, Corrik Corrik .
 

Barsinister

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Calling someone a name is not necessarily the same as attacking their character. For example:

Me calling you a "cunt" is more of an emphasis to my point than a specific attack on you.

Me saying you are a whiny, self-involved, narcissist would be a direct attack on you as a person.

See the difference, cunt?
 
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matt404au

Cyberbully
Apr 25, 2009
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The dude is like literally banned. I don't see how refuting his statement required you to incessantly personally attack someone. I don't see what value you added to your argument. Ad hominem is just a poor way of arguing.
So what? We’re discussing what was said before the ban. He smeared GAF first, then I responded in self-defense (“self” because I consider myself part of the community). An insult is a civil version of a punch. If it’s done to instigate a fight, it’s wrong; if it’s done to finish a fight, it’s right. I would challenge you to find one example of me calling someone a cunt in a non-joking manner in order to instigate a fight rather than in self-defense or to otherwise nip an anti-social behaviour in the bud early.

Social media has scrambled our brains and completely distorted the concept of civility. Civility is what separates us from the animals, i.e. “civilised society”. Animals settle their differences physically. Civilised humans forego physicality and settle their differences with words. Uncivilised humans go to prison. What you are arguing for is pathologising insults on the same level as physicality, which removes one’s ability to defend himself. Couple that with the lack of an implicit threat of violence that is otherwise present in face-to-face human interactions, and you have a recipe for social disaster.

What you advocate for results in people freely lying, slandering and backstabbing because they know there’s no consequence to their actions if the other person is disarmed and unable to defend themself.
 

Corrik

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Jan 20, 2018
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So what? We’re discussing what was said before the ban. He smeared GAF first, then I responded in self-defense (“self” because I consider myself part of the community). An insult is a civil version of a punch. If it’s done to instigate a fight, it’s wrong; if it’s done to finish a fight, it’s right. I would challenge you to find one example of me calling someone a cunt in a non-joking manner in order to instigate a fight rather than in self-defense or to otherwise nip an anti-social behaviour in the bud early.

Social media has scrambled our brains and completely distorted the concept of civility. Civility is what separates us from the animals, i.e. “civilised society”. Animals settle their differences physically. Civilised humans forego physicality and settle their differences with words. Uncivilised humans go to prison. What you are arguing for is pathologising insults on the same level as physicality, which removes one’s ability to defend himself. Couple that with the lack of an implicit threat of violence that is otherwise present in face-to-face human interactions, and you have a recipe for social disaster.

What you advocate for results in people freely lying, slandering and backstabbing because they know there’s no consequence to their actions if the other person is disarmed and unable to defend themself.
I see zero instance where stooping to personal attacks of another on a forum is relatively justified. That is my personal take. Stooping to someone else's level (if you deem they struck first) while also going "but he started it" just seems relatively juvenile of a defense to me.

But, like I said, we must just see if differently then. I just think it doesn't hurt to respect others even if you disagree with their content or arguments or even accusations. Moderators can deem what needs taken care of in my opinion if the user is crossing the line in what they are saying.
 
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Christopher

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I’m ride or die GAF I’ve been here since I was in college and now the father of four. Crazy.

I honestly love it the way it is now it reminds me of how it was when it first opened....say what’s on your mind, chat about games, and make some Buddies.

this shit was straight up toxic, and Tyler I’m sorry that nonsense happened to you on a personal level, however on GAFs level of restructuring I’m kind glad it turned this place around.
 

matt404au

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Apr 25, 2009
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I see zero instance where stooping to personal attacks of another on a forum is relatively justified. That is my personal take. Stooping to someone else's level (if you deem they struck first) while also going "but he started it" just seems relatively juvenile of a defense to me.

But, like I said, we must just see if differently then. I just think it doesn't hurt to respect others even if you disagree with their content or arguments or even accusations. Moderators can deem what needs taken care of in my opinion if the user is crossing the line in what they are saying.
Yes, I know that’s your personal truth. Thanks for playing. Here’s your participation trophy 🏆

For future reference, I’m perfectly respectful until I detect deceit, at which point they’re disrespecting my intelligence and retaliatory disrespect is justified.
 

Thaedolus

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Jun 9, 2004
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The dude is like literally banned. I don't see how refuting his statement required you to incessantly personally attack someone. I don't see what value you added to your argument. Ad hominem is just a poor way of arguing.
Eh. at a certain point some people just need to be told they're a cunt. You don't need to worry about fallacies like ad hominem because it doesn't matter to some people. They're not going to accept criticism or pushback anyway. Once upon a time my sister was talking to my mom is a very disrespectful and rude tone in my house about how long it was taking her to order dinner. Mind you, my mom was buying everyone dinner and had just arrived. Not only did I feel like it was completely unjustified and rude, but she was doing it in front of two of our preteen nieces. There could've been a lot of considerations for my sister's feelings about how I told her to stop what she was doing, but I thought the behavior needed to stop right then and there and what I said needed to be said in front of my nieces so they knew nobody talks to their Nana like that. So I told her she was being a brat and she needed to stop acting that way. Of course she was pissed I'd say that in front of everyone and stormed off, but she was metaphorically taking a shit on the floor in front of everyone, so it was on her IMO. Sometimes you just need to forego the kid gloves and tell someone to fuck off.
 
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matt404au

Cyberbully
Apr 25, 2009
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Eh. at a certain point some people just need to be told they're a cunt. You don't need to worry about fallacies like ad hominem because it doesn't matter to some people. They're not going to accept criticism or pushback anyway. Once upon a time my sister was talking to my mom is a very disrespectful and rude tone in my house about how long it was taking her to order dinner. Mind you, my mom was buying everyone dinner and had just arrived. Not only did I feel like it was completely unjustified and rude, but she was doing it in front of two of our preteen nieces. There could've been a lot of considerations for my sister's feelings about how I told her to stop what she was doing, but I thought the behavior needed to stop right then and there and what I said needed to be said in front of my nieces so they knew nobody talks to their Nana like that. So I told her she was being a brat and she needed to stop acting that way. Of course she was pissed I'd say that in front of everyone and stormed off, but she was metaphorically taking a shit on the floor in front of everyone, so it was on her IMO. Sometimes you just need to forego the kid gloves and tell someone to fuck off.
Agree 100% but I will just point out that self-defense is not ad hominem anyway. If you’re forced into a position of defending your own character by another, it is perfectly reasonable to respond in kind. The whole “be the bigger man” philosophy has been extrapolated well beyond the extents of its utility. If the other person is slandering you, flopping on your belly and pretending to be a doormat isn’t being the bigger man; it’s being a fucking doormat. Moreover, as you point out, the attacker doesn’t learn the true consequences of their actions. If you put a stop to it early, they benefit for the rest of their life, even if it means some harsh lessons initially.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
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Pretty sure they both can be. Yeah, if moderation says personal attacks will be moderated and that is what they look for, I find it weird when they seem wholly ignored when done blatantly.

Treating people you converse with on a forum with respect isn't exactly a hard thing to accomplish.

Seeing that run rampant is absolutely a deterrent to some people wanting to be here.

If you determine I am somehow attacking something with my arguments that you don't like you are going to incessantly tell me how I am a stupid fucking cunt over and over? We make fun of ResetERA for doing this at things they don't like. Like the Police or anyone who does anything not liberal.

Yet, is it much better when you do it? I just personally don't see what you gain from it and why the moderation is supposedly looking for that but continues to ignore it blatantly being done. I can only think it is because you are a Gold user, but supposedly, that isn't supposed to matter when it comes to moderation. So, again, I am wholly confused by the moderation of it.

I just need clarified I suppose because I don't understand the policies clearly!
What one person considers respect another may consider insulting. I find it more insulting trying to force niceties instead of being up front. If someone like Matt had an issue with me, I would much rather he just say it out right instead of fucking about trying to beat around the bush.
 

Thaedolus

Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Agree 100% but I will just point out that self-defense is not ad hominem anyway. If you’re forced into a position of defending your own character by another, it is perfectly reasonable to respond in kind. The whole “be the bigger man” philosophy has been extrapolated well beyond the extents of its utility. If the other person is slandering you, flopping on your belly and pretending to be a doormat isn’t being the bigger man; it’s being a fucking doormat. Moreover, as you point out, the attacker doesn’t learn the true consequences of their actions. If you put a stop to it early, they benefit for the rest of their life, even if it means some harsh lessons initially.
Agree. I think becoming a breadwinner and father has helped me understand this on a more primal level too...you come at me with some bullshit, now you're not only fucking with me but my family. It's easy to be the bigger man when the stakes are sorta low anyway, but when it's my ability to provide for my wife and child? I'm in 100% take no shit mode as a father and husband. I'll acknowledge I'm not perfect and make mistakes, but anyone acting in bad faith against me can get fucked.
 
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TrainedRage

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Feb 3, 2018
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Can you not just "Ignore Users"?
I honestly think there should be very lenient bans if any, spam and bots and graphic stuff.
 

Stouffers

Member
Oct 17, 2017
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I just spent $1200 on a rag doll cat. It could’ve been used for my first gaming PC since 2003. :(
 

nush

Member
Oct 16, 2017
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Can you not just "Ignore Users"?
This logical use of the tools available has been discussed before.

"I don't see why I should have to put users on ignore, anyway that's a cowards way out and I'M better than that, it's not up to me to censor people" /S

Said person who refuses to use the ignore feature constantly complains and reports users they don't like...
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
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Oh, we're asking stuff. Cool

EviLore EviLore You got any good book recommendations for community management, or website resources. That kind of thing.
Lots of book recommendations I'd be happy to give more generally, and I can give you some advice on community management matters directly if you have questions, but I got started during the wild west of webforums nearly 20 years ago and had to figure out everything seat-of-pants.
 
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plushyp

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Jul 21, 2016
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I just spent $1200 on a rag doll cat. It could’ve been used for my first gaming PC since 2003. :(
What the hell, I thought you were joking only to see that it's an actual breed after searching about it lol

Lots of book recommendations I'd be happy to give more generally,
+1 to book recommendations. I remember you offering some great examples in another read about another topic.
 
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Rolling_Start

Banned
Jul 25, 2019
470
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I only came here after the split - this year infact. I'd read stuff here before because lots of interesting things were linked from off forum. It was so damn busy, and I was playing so few games any more, that I didn't see the point in joining.

Selfishly, I quite like the pace of it at the moment. I hope it continues to grow though, as it deserves it.

In terms of moderation I've been fortunate that it's quite patient, and gives people a chance to shup up and move on instead of insta banning. I have a problem where I get really drunk, and then post rancorous, incoherent ... things ... that don't necessarily make any sense to me the next day. That said, I was pleased to find out that I'd posted more than once in the Gina Carano Absolute Thiccness thread.



She's like a well made, modern game engine - highly scalable. Looks great at both higher and lower settings.