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Clickbait Business Cringe So, Evilore

TheContact

Member
Jan 22, 2016
3,147
1,035
585
Can you talk about your decision not to sell? I know it was brought up so I’m not sure if that’s an essay’s worth of an answer or not.
 
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Gromph

This tag is currently undergoing scheduled maintenance...
Staff Member
Dec 11, 2008
3,079
134
4,100
Tokyo
www.rootedcon.es
I would imagine with gaf back to it's best and the only gaming forum in town, that the next gen should bring an influx of numbers.

Though I have enjoyed watching the last two e3s without gaf dying
The e3 before the big drama GAF was down for 30 seconds. it hold with FFVII Remake... but it didn't hold with Shenmue 3.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
May 30, 2004
24,903
35,471
2,190
Can you talk about your decision not to sell? I know it was brought up so I’m not sure if that’s an essay’s worth of an answer or not.
I felt a responsibility to the community and to the gaming scene at large to keep NeoGAF neutral and independent. It was being used as a primary news and discussion aggregator and had a lot of influence, even though it wasn’t generating much revenue. Lots of indie devs implored me not to sell, since they had gained traction through GAF after being summarily ignored by the mainstream gaming press. I took all that and all the love from the users on my shoulders and couldn’t justify selling out to a big corporation that would wring it dry.
 

ManaByte

Member
Jun 10, 2004
23,749
9,183
2,235
42
Southern California
mcucosmic.com
I felt a responsibility to the community and to the gaming scene at large to keep NeoGAF neutral and independent. It was being used as a primary news and discussion aggregator and had a lot of influence, even though it wasn’t generating much revenue. Lots of indie devs implored me not to sell, since they had gained traction through GAF after being summarily ignored by the mainstream gaming press. I took all that and all the love from the users on my shoulders and couldn’t justify selling out to a big corporation that would wring it dry.
Yup I've experienced what happens when a site is sold and it's always a bad idea. They promise everything, but within a year the site will either be dead or unrecognizable.

Hell, I think Collider even bought themselves back. From what I understand, Frosty sold it to Complex, but then bought it back to take it back independent.

Selling out is always a bad idea if you actually care about what you built and want to see it continue.
 

Shizumapower

Member
Jan 18, 2015
728
1,310
535
United States
I felt a responsibility to the community and to the gaming scene at large to keep NeoGAF neutral and independent. It was being used as a primary news and discussion aggregator and had a lot of influence, even though it wasn’t generating much revenue. Lots of indie devs implored me not to sell, since they had gained traction through GAF after being summarily ignored by the mainstream gaming press. I took all that and all the love from the users on my shoulders and couldn’t justify selling out to a big corporation that would wring it dry.
Is EviLore Buckaroo Banzai?

 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Feb 28, 2014
7,992
465
725
Server migration took a lot of considerations and planing, but after that all was straight forward.
I think the best achievement was reducing the migration time of a 150GB database from 24+hours to less than 3h.

And is not nerve racking... is just boring waiting for it to finish :)
Is GAF backed up to tape?
 
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chemspida

Banned
Dec 23, 2016
88
88
290
I felt a responsibility to the community and to the gaming scene at large to keep NeoGAF neutral and independent. It was being used as a primary news and discussion aggregator and had a lot of influence, even though it wasn’t generating much revenue. Lots of indie devs implored me not to sell, since they had gained traction through GAF after being summarily ignored by the mainstream gaming press. I took all that and all the love from the users on my shoulders and couldn’t justify selling out to a big corporation that would wring it dry.
I'm glad to see the place recovering but I have to ask, why did you let SonyGAF ruin the gaming side?
 

MetalAlien

Member
Mar 6, 2005
11,123
5,201
1,880
Yup I've experienced what happens when a site is sold and it's always a bad idea. They promise everything, but within a year the site will either be dead or unrecognizable.

Hell, I think Collider even bought themselves back. From what I understand, Frosty sold it to Complex, but then bought it back to take it back independent.

Selling out is always a bad idea if you actually care about what you built and want to see it continue.
So you don't remember? You've been here longer than me!
 

ThePiddle

Member
May 6, 2019
306
432
285
I am consistently amazed by your ability to not curl up into a ball and quit EviLore EviLore . Shit, it's what I expected. Makes my depression over other things seem laughable.

I also want to say I never would have joined under the old GAF, even well before the exodus. The moderation now has improved to the point that this is the best forum I've seen in terms of free discussion (without becoming a complete shithole). What you all are doing is working.

The exodus was rough, but I kept regularly lurking here because the whole situation came off as ridiculous. The biggest disappointment was in how many posters actually left, I honestly figured only 30-50% would leave. So glad I never fully bought into Era.


My biggest question is just how you managed to push forward? Did you have anyone (or multiple somebodies) that really helped support you? Did you ever think about ending the site, and if so what convinced you not to?
 
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MaestroMike

Member
Sep 25, 2011
643
626
670
Yup I've experienced what happens when a site is sold and it's always a bad idea. They promise everything, but within a year the site will either be dead or unrecognizable.

Hell, I think Collider even bought themselves back. From what I understand, Frosty sold it to Complex, but then bought it back to take it back independent.

Selling out is always a bad idea if you actually care about what you built and want to see it continue.
i'm kinda annoyed that teamxbox was like sold to IGN or whatever it was one of my first forums in middle school i remember it was fun posting there when the first Xbox was released
 

Silentbomber

Neo Member
Aug 22, 2019
35
36
120
Yeah GAF at the moment feels more like classic GAF compared to whatever it was around 2016. Era inherited all the shit.

My questions to Evilore are:
1. How do you intend to stop what happened before from happening again ?
2. Do you regret not implementing GAF GOLD sooner, I assume it would have done very well even before the split - which would sort out any revenue issues. Or maybe it would give the toxic community another bullshit reason to do whatever they wish.

I appreciate everything you have done for this community so far, especially after the trying times of the split. Hopefully we are seeing the results of genuine thought vs outrage culture.
 
Oct 12, 2005
7,262
467
1,570
I thought about it a bit lately, and I have to say, you have my respect for duking it out instead of saying "fuck it" and leave. Which I would have probably done.

Can't imagine the shit you had to go through at the time.
And I am happy I that this place still exists, or I would probably have left gaming forums all together for the future after my weird stint at REE where I didn't post much because I was scared to get immediately banned.

And it's better than ever here..

Kudos to you, sir...
you can def get it :messenger_rocket:
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Aug 17, 2009
25,345
1,521
1,400
Philippines
psnprofiles.com
In terms of posting activity, we went from about 75,000 posts per day pre-drama to 500 posts per day after the drama. We're back up to around 4,000 posts per day and 5,000 reactions per day now.
I'm guessing majority of those 75k posts were just "wow", "yikes", "oof", or "fuck ____". :p
 

nush

Gold Member
Oct 16, 2017
3,620
7,593
560
2. Do you regret not implementing GAF GOLD sooner, I assume it would have done very well even before the split - which would sort out any revenue issues.
I cant see that it would have been accepted any earlier by anyone. It was only once crowdfunding and then Patreon that it became normalized and people were happy to throw a few bucks in the hat to support content providers. If you go back to when Wikipedia started to run funding drives they were mocked at lot.
 
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Northeastmonk

Gold Member
Mar 18, 2013
12,359
1,706
890
Omaha, NE - USA
There was bio video about NeoGAF and it had Cliff and misc people talking about it. To my knowledge those people only got on here for some sorta conflict with another person. It never felt like they were on here to talk about playing game(s). It was where they checked their social standing with a large user base.

Which makes me feel like they’re all sorta eating their words now. You can clearly see a large presence of people who are interested in the market, who pay money for the product, and spend a lot of time enjoying/playing games.
 

MetalAlien

Member
Mar 6, 2005
11,123
5,201
1,880
One day GAF will make it big. I gave Gary Whitta shit for not wearing a GAF shirt when he was interviewed on TV. Ne nice if Tony Stark or something was wearing a GAF shirt in some future marvel flashback.
 

Gashtronomy

Member
Apr 19, 2019
4,343
5,950
470
i'm kinda annoyed that teamxbox was like sold to IGN or whatever it was one of my first forums in middle school i remember it was fun posting there when the first Xbox was released
My man! Teamxbox was the shit back in the day, especially around the launch of the 360 and the ilovebees Halo puzzles. I solved one of the puzzles on teamxbox and was the first person to do so, that was my internet 15 minutes of fame :messenger_tears_of_joy:

It all went to shit with Kinect, as the rabid shills and fanboys moved in and the revenue streams moved out.

In the end, it was the same arguments between MW, Bgamer90, the Wicther guy and that nob with the andy dick avatar.

It's a shame, it's a damned shame.
 
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Coolwhhip

Member
Aug 26, 2019
531
1,331
495
How did GAF go from resetera-like (extreme left, not allowing other opinions) to such a free forum? With the same owner?
 
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Dee Dah Dave

Member
Nov 24, 2013
6,091
1,721
595
England, UK
I reckon another 5 years and we will be back on top. I just hope that staff and mods remember how badly things can go wrong and protect against it.

Anyway next gen is coming and I’m sure that will bring some newbies. Come on in the waters lovely!
 
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Nov 24, 2016
349
298
490
No argument here. We had 16+ straight years of steady growth until the big drama. But, taking it slowly and doing it right builds a stronger foundation for the future. We’ll see plenty more recovery in 2020.
I like it this way. I joined about a year or so before the drama. I was nervous to even post. I was scared to piss off the crazies and worried they would use my work email that I had to use to make my life hell. All because I didn't agree.
 
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ManaByte

Member
Jun 10, 2004
23,749
9,183
2,235
42
Southern California
mcucosmic.com
I reckon another 5 years and we will be back on top. I just hope that staff and mods remember how badly things can go wrong and protect against it.

Anyway next gen is coming and I’m sure that will bring some newbies. Come on in the waters lovely!
I'd love the forum to be as active as it used to be, but without the crazies running it. It'd be the best of both worlds.
 

Arimer

Member
Feb 16, 2018
139
179
275
How did GAF go from resetera-like (extreme left, not allowing other opinions) to such a free forum? With the same owner?
From what I've seen the extreme left hates everyone and everything. While loosely aligned with each other they also can't stop being attention whores which leads to infighting etc and eventually a schism. Hell look at what's going on right now in their promised land of resetera. Everyone thinks everyone else is out to get them. They've already had exodus's twice. Everyone is so afraid to say anything because of power mods or stepping on a progressive landmine..

personally I had never been on Gaf before the split because of the reputation of it. I joined afterwards and I've had some pretty good conversations here. Numbers are down but its growing and I think ultimately it'll come out stronger for it.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
May 30, 2004
24,903
35,471
2,190
I am consistently amazed by your ability to not curl up into a ball and quit EviLore EviLore . Shit, it's what I expected. Makes my depression over other things seem laughable.

I also want to say I never would have joined under the old GAF, even well before the exodus. The moderation now has improved to the point that this is the best forum I've seen in terms of free discussion (without becoming a complete shithole). What you all are doing is working.

The exodus was rough, but I kept regularly lurking here because the whole situation came off as ridiculous. The biggest disappointment was in how many posters actually fully left, I honestly figured only 30-50% would actually leave. So glad I never fully bought into Era.


My biggest question is just how you managed to push forward? Did you have anyone (or multiple somebodies) that really helped support you? Did you ever think about ending the site, and if so what convinced you not to?
Thanks. Quitting wasn't an option as far as I was concerned, so it was just about figuring out the rest. I absolutely had support from the remaining team members while I was emotionally frazzled from the cancellation. They held the place together through all the hellish gay porn bombs that Reset members threw at the site en masse, and I brought in moderation contractors for a while as soon as I could to relieve them, at which point we started figuring out the details of next steps. After that I focused on the software migration to Xenforo as had been originally scheduled for the same week that the drama ended up blowing the whole place up.
 

Ownage

Member
Nov 5, 2018
820
843
330
www.zombo.com
In terms of posting activity, we went from about 75,000 posts per day pre-drama to 500 posts per day after the drama. We're back up to around 4,000 posts per day and 5,000 reactions per day now.
Remaining anonymous, I'll confirm that devs in many west coast studios still frequent here and ham it up. Some of us have taken a lesser role in the industry after 20 yrs, but still give love and reminisce about the days of prime E3, GAF and the laughing gif :lol.

Anyone else attend the 2001 Xbox party at Palladium with Third Eye Blind, Blink 182, Chemical Brothers and the mosh pit? Those naked dancers in showers... Why can't we have more nice things?
 
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ManaByte

Member
Jun 10, 2004
23,749
9,183
2,235
42
Southern California
mcucosmic.com
Remaining anonymous, I'll confirm that devs in many west coast studios still frequent here and ham it up. Some of us have taken a lesser role in the industry after 20 yrs, but still give love and reminisce about the days of prime E3, GAF and the laughing gif :lol.

Anyone else attend the 2001 Xbox party at Palladium with Third Eye Blind, Blink 182, Chemical Brothers and the mosh pit? Those naked dancers in showers... Why can't we have more nice things?
Because Kotaku
 

Thabass

Member
Jun 9, 2008
2,630
2,169
1,420
Remaining anonymous, I'll confirm that devs in many west coast studios still frequent here and ham it up. Some of us have taken a lesser role in the industry after 20 yrs, but still give love and reminisce about the days of prime E3, GAF and the laughing gif :lol.

Anyone else attend the 2001 Xbox party at Palladium with Third Eye Blind, Blink 182, Chemical Brothers and the mosh pit? Those naked dancers in showers... Why can't we have more nice things?
Oh great, now you reminded me of all the White Wolf parties that CCP used to throw during GDCs.... I miss those parties.
 
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Jooxed

Gold Member
Aug 27, 2019
1,710
2,942
760
You know what I like about the new admins/mods team? They’re all new apart from Gromph the OG. You rarely see them posting but always on the watch. I’d like to see them more around interacting but that’s up to them of course

I’d also like to add that they don’t take sides. Thread got heated? They get in between to calm the storm and leave. I love them
That's one thing I was curious about too.. I very rarely see any mods interacting with us peons except for Evilore and occasionally Dgrayson