To be honest, I always wanted to get into Star Trek, but I never could. I watched several of the movies, but they didn't manage to hook me up.
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So I Want To Get Into Star Wars
- Thread starter OraleeWey
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To be honest, I always wanted to get into Star Trek, but I never could. I watched several of the movies, but they didn't manage to hook me up.
tintin1029
Member
Watch it all in release order.
After watching all of them, if you are interested in the changes that were made with 4 5 and 6, watch all of HelloGreedo's "Star Wars Changes" series. It's really interesting.
After watching all of them, if you are interested in the changes that were made with 4 5 and 6, watch all of HelloGreedo's "Star Wars Changes" series. It's really interesting.
If you want to get into Star Trek, honestly, stay away from the movies. Trek has always belonged on TV and it's missed way more than it's hit on the big screen - only like 3 or 4 of the movies are ones I'd safely say are good/great, and there are 12 movies in total. Honestly, I'd start with Next Generation as I think it's the best jumping in point for Trek.
Naaaah. It's the convenience of having a single video to link (and a preponderance of abducted hooker and pizza roll jokes) more than it is the quality of critique. It's good critique, but lets not act like Stoklasa cracked the DaVinci Code of Star Wars analysis here.
This thread (my posts included) is a decent example of why "I want to get into Star Wars" might best be answered with "Don't."
I'll disagree with you, I don't know what more these reviews could do to show the flaws in them.
But anyway, it's pointless going on about this, OP should just watch all of them anyway to see what they think.
JimtotheHum
Member
I agree with this.
Dreams-Visions
Member
+1. I consider the original TMNT film and The Golden Child to be bad films, but I still love them anyway. The prequels are just bad films by all measures. If you like them that's cool...especially if you grew up with them like I grew up with the original TMNT and other early 90s shit. But I'd never call them good films or better than films that rightfully earned their place in the world's cultural fabric.
ymmv around here, though.
woah now. everyone needs to see Start Trek 2 and 6. those are sci-fi classics and can be enjoyed independent of any of the other star trek films. though you should definitely have a base in the TV shows first (obv).
I agree with you. Trek 2 and Trek 6 are great, for sure. They work standalone but they work better if you watch the stuff that leads up to them (Trek 2 being a sequel to a TOS episode and Trek 6 works a little better if you watch Trek 3)
Duane Cunningham
Member
I had never seen any Star Trek besides some TNG when it was new and a couple years ago just decided to start at the beginning with the original 60's show. I loved it.
Precisely. This is why I don't want to consider msyelf a "Star Wars Fanboy". The whole idea of being part of such a negative, grumpy and angry fanbase is kind of scary. It must be terrible to be "fan" of a franchise that currently spans 6 movies, and only liking 3 of them (Or even 2, in some cases...).
And let's not forget the laughable phrase that can be found in EVERY Star Wars thread or discussion:
"Have you watched the Plinkett reviews?"
Which basically means: "I really don't know why I hate the prequels, so watch these videos since I cannot make an argument for myself"
My man, yes. Absolute truth in this post
Join me and together we will overthrow the fandom, and rule the fanbase as Master and apprentice.
ZackieChan
Member
I don't know why you couldn't have come to that obvious conclusion yourself, though.
You've literally come to "watch them in release order," which is what any rational human being would do.
If you can stomach watching 60's era television, absolutely start with the original series for Trek. I just generally push people to start with TNG first because it's more modern, I think it's aged better, and the episodes are better paced. TOS is still absolutely worth it though if you can watch it from the perspective of a 60s show.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Good advice. Also, you don't have to watch *all* of the original series episodes. You can, but it's not all that necessary if your goal is to get to the 2 or 3 films with the original cast that are good to watch.
MilkyJoe
Member
A bad film is a bad film, what can I say? That's just my opinion, man. Well a lot of people's opinion. And I'm not calling anyone a retard, as you so PC'ly put it, I'm stating that if you think people need to be told why they don't like something then they would have to have problems.
I like the Plinkett films because they are funny and behind the humour they go in depth into how the ball was completely dropped. They didn't turn me against anything, my mind was already made up. I fell asleep during episode 1, missed episode 2 at the cinema and saw episode 3 at a cast and crew premier that a friend got me into. Fun fact, after the screening my friend turned to me and said "well that was shit". I did see episode 2 some time after 3 on DVD.
Anyway, I'm indifferent to the existence of the prequels, as I am with Caravan of Courage... They gave us Plinkett so I'm happy they exist that way.
I don't know man. It sounds cool, but this "Rule of Two" eventually ends up with one murdering the other...
Yeah, that's easily the biggest thing that jump to me when I watch the original trilogy nowadays. It doesn't have much depth and there's not much in the way of great cinematography, acting, writing or dialogs. The first Death Star battle just look like shit in 2015 when you notice how slow everything is moving and just how few TIE are defending the base given the limited technology in 1977. Saying that it's fun doesn't mean much, as you could just as easily say a movie is great because it made you cry or laugh.
Lord of the rings is a much better display of great popcorn like adventures mixed with credible artistic endeavors. Jackson did a far better job directing than Lucas, Kershner or Marquand imo. Still, it's a mainstream sci-fi / fantasy series which is quite approachable with simple ideas and themes which everyone can easily identify and relate to (the original trilogy is much more coherent and the interaction between characters is more interesting thx to them being more charismatic). The production values haven't been really bested yet when you take into consideration everything (ILM, soundtracks by Williams) and there's not much competition in it's genre as in the last decade I can think of Jupiter ascending as being the only real attempt at being a space opera.
tintin1029
Member
Plinkett actually started with Star Trek, right?
ZackieChan
Member
But most of your takeaways from the thread have been that. And Harmy's Despecialized Editions!
I'm just an old man. Don't mind me.
MilkyJoe
Member
No idea, I only came across them from a link from a forum. I do throughly enjoy the other RLM work though, so that link brought a myriad of great stuff since.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yup. He was a known quantity already before the Star Wars videos.
MilkyJoe
Member
Is Plinkett that taller guy with dark hair in the Half in the bag videos?
tintin1029
Member
I love Mr Plinkett, but I really recommend you avoid him till afterwards, OP.
Yeah I don't get recommending the reviews without seeing the films.
MilkyJoe
Member
Would you call them reviews?
That sounds like an excellent reason not to get into Star Wars. Because other people argue about their merits.
...
That's what they are called. I think they should be watched after experiencing the horrors of the prequel trilogy anyway. It adds to the humour having a shared experience of the horror.
The Hermit
Member
Despecialized editions, OT only, no prequels
MilkyJoe
Member
Yeah that's what I mean, more seminars, in the loosest possible definition.
tintin1029
Member
You can tell who's Plinkett just by the voices. It's pretty clear who it is.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
I was recently trying to do the same of getting into Star Wars and watched a friend's DVD of A New Hope. The added CG and comps were so dated and jarring, it actually took me out of the moment in the film. Are the Bluray's any better about this?
tintin1029
Member
Or if you liked the Prequels (or at least don't understand all the hate about it) it is a pretty educational experience.
MilkyJoe
Member
Oh sorry...
tintin1029
Member
It would only be better if they removed it all together
Example
New Hope SE spoilers and Return of the Jedi spoilers)
Not only does Jabba the Hut look awful in it, it also ruined the mystery of who Jabba the Hut is. He was just mentioned throughout the trilogy as some evil dude, then his proper introduction during 6 happened and it was horrifying. Adding him into the Special Edition ruined it.
People don't think of details like this often because the movies are old and everyone already knows the twists and all of that, but it's a big deal.
Don't worry, man. I wasn't angry, I just thought it was pretty obvious from the start. Especially considering how the actual Plinkett in HitB is totally not actually him.
MilkyJoe
Member
It would only be better if they removed it all together
ExampleNot only does Jabba the Hut look awful in it, it also ruined the mystery of who Jabba the Hut is. He was just mentioned throughout the trilogy as some evil dude, then his proper introduction during 6 happened and it was horrifying. Adding him into the Special Edition ruined it.
People don't think of details like this often because the movies are old and everyone already knows the twists and all of that, but it's a big deal.
Don't worry, man. I wasn't angry, I just thought it was pretty obvious from the start. Especially considering how the actual Plinkett in HitB is totally not actually him.
Yeah, sorry the sarchy reply, I thought it was but thought maybe they got an actor in.
Re your spoiler, bingo, bang on the mark.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I was watching the Harmy 2.5 edition of Star Wars last night (not Episode IV - A New Hope, just "Star Wars") and it is so refreshing.
Obviously the loss of the bad CG and story changes is a relief...
... But even aside from that, it is so much more fun to watch and see more clearly that underneath it all, Star Wars is this very bizzare, very 70s sci fi experiment. It's like Logan's Run or Zardoz or the unfimed Jodorowski's Dune - made with wild idealism and echoes of 60s psychadelia. The odd thing about this movie was that it went on to spawn this big "universe" - a universe which I think obscures many people's view of what this movie originally was (in the case of the Spcial Editions, quite literally so).
There's also something really perfect and iconic about all the dialogue, and it's not nostalgia. The acting is so earnest... No one is saddled with the pretensious modern notion of "I'm starring in the new Star Wars (or Harry Potter, or Hobbit, or Hunger Games, etc etc)" Everone is in this bizzare experiment that they don't understand, and it paradoxically makes it more believeable.
And the editing. This is top-shelf filmmaking in that department. The escape from the Death Star battle scene is a powerful slice of cinema. The cuts are so unorthodox - rapid but well-paced. A very visceral scene. This is what film students should study.
Getting into "Star Wars" (the saga) is fine. But also try and watch the original as if it were that original 70s film. See it for what it is, and I think you'll come to appreciate it even more. I can see why it sparked off a movement that will live forever... And I'm a little in awe that it was made in the first place.
Obviously the loss of the bad CG and story changes is a relief...
... But even aside from that, it is so much more fun to watch and see more clearly that underneath it all, Star Wars is this very bizzare, very 70s sci fi experiment. It's like Logan's Run or Zardoz or the unfimed Jodorowski's Dune - made with wild idealism and echoes of 60s psychadelia. The odd thing about this movie was that it went on to spawn this big "universe" - a universe which I think obscures many people's view of what this movie originally was (in the case of the Spcial Editions, quite literally so).
There's also something really perfect and iconic about all the dialogue, and it's not nostalgia. The acting is so earnest... No one is saddled with the pretensious modern notion of "I'm starring in the new Star Wars (or Harry Potter, or Hobbit, or Hunger Games, etc etc)" Everone is in this bizzare experiment that they don't understand, and it paradoxically makes it more believeable.
And the editing. This is top-shelf filmmaking in that department. The escape from the Death Star battle scene is a powerful slice of cinema. The cuts are so unorthodox - rapid but well-paced. A very visceral scene. This is what film students should study.
Getting into "Star Wars" (the saga) is fine. But also try and watch the original as if it were that original 70s film. See it for what it is, and I think you'll come to appreciate it even more. I can see why it sparked off a movement that will live forever... And I'm a little in awe that it was made in the first place.
No problemBut most of your takeaways from the thread have been that. And Harmy's Despecialized Editions!
I'm just an old man. Don't mind me.
Just like with SW people need to base their opinions on their own viewing, for Trek I would do as the others suggest and start with TNG. Afterwards, you can decide if you want to go back and watch TOS. Honestly, if you don't mind 60's camp I'd start with the The Original Series and then move on to TNG. Then you move on to Deep Space Nine, arguably the best Trek series, but again it's debatable. Voyager comes next and is honestly one of the worst Trek shows but there are still a few good episodes here and there. And, finally there is Enterprise the lowest of the low and the one that comes first chronology. But, if you're committed then you can watch it too it's not complete horse shit but it is is seriously bad.
Now, as for the movies it's a mixed bag and everyone has their own opinion. For me, I think all of the TNG movies are utter and complete crap that try and make the series into action schlock. But, there are plenty of great TOS movies. I'll rank them as follows, again this is my OWN opinion:
-Star Trek: The Motion Picture (#2); A lot of people told me this movie was boring crap going in but when Mr. Plinkett did a review of the 09' ST movie he said it was one of his favorites so I decided to check it out. As it turned out he was right it's great IMO. Yes, its slow and "boring" but if you like TOS TV show then you should like the movie which is basically just a high budget extended episode of the TV show.
-Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (#1); My favorite and most Trek fans would agree. What's funny is that I liked you originally sorta watched it one day without any knowledge of the TV show and thought it was crap, badly acted and cheesy hilarious. Yet, after I watched the TV series and came back I cried at the end. It is an amazing movie but you have to have a connection to the characters to care or understand them.
-Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (#6); It's an alright movie don't have much more to say.
-Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (#5): A great movie with a really fun plot, it shows that ST isn't just about space battles and what not. But, is about a solid story and fun characters.
-Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (somewhere near the bottom); Directed by William Shater, Starring William Shatner and pretty much crap.
-Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (#4); Another one of my favorite and the last of TOS movies. It really takes the original crew and gives us one last great mission with them.
(NOTE: After this comes the TNG movies I wont rank them because I think they are all crap)
-Star Trek 2009 (#3); My third favorite Trek film and the least Trekky of them all. JJ Abrams takes Star Trek to the big screen once more and basically turns ST into Star Wars. And yet, it's a great fun ride. It's mindless, senseless fun with a great set of characters. The fact that die hard fans can't accept this change for the big screen is the only problem.
-Star Trek: Into Darkness (shit); Not even worthy of a rank really, all that fun adventure stuff and generally decent plot that JJ managed in the first movie is lost here. Instead, we get a plot that seeks to rip off the best ST movie while also being boring and nonsensical. All the lens flare and big action can't save the stupidity that is this movie.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The plotting of Wrath of Khan and Into Darkness aren't even remotely similar.
Unless you're talking about The Undiscovered Country, in which case - they're still not even remotely similar.
Episode 3 was in no way ruined by the original trilogy.
This picture is not a spoiler. That innocent little boy grows up to be the bad guy in the black suit. Everybody knows it will happen, it's just a question of how and why. That is the entire premise of the prequel trilogy. It puts the viewer in a unique position. To take away that foreknowledge is to take away the essence of the entire prequel trilogy.
When the original trilogy "did a thing", it was being inventive and original. When the prequel trilogy "did a thing", it was a callback, and they were referencing the original trilogy (Lucas: It's like poetry, it rhymes). To flip this series on it's head and watch the prequels first makes it seem like the prequel trilogy was the one being creative and original, and the original trilogy was making callbacks and references, which is wrong on both sides.
It's actually mind-boggling to me that George Lucas has "canon" on the brain so badly that years later he would misunderstand his own movies to the extent that he would endorse watching them 1-6.
WTF you don't like first contact?
You mean that movie where Picard becomes a psychotic murder man against the Borg? Nah.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
You can also play Star Wars The Old Republic. It's free 2 play, and really fun to play the class stories. Many of them are well written and give a good insight into the Star Wars Universe.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Prequels are always intended to be consumed within the context of the "later" events. That's the literal definition of a "prequel". It's a "sequel" that take place before the original story.
And most the "surprises" you listed in the prequels are so blatantly telegraphed I don't think they're intended to be twists at all, even when watched chronologically. Meanwhile the Empire twist is by far the biggest and most surprising in the entire story (and one of the most famous and surprising in popular film).
Warm Machine
Member
The prime reason to watch them 1-6 is so the gravitas of Luke heading to Bespin in Empire Strikes Back. He is acting out on the same sort of feeling and vision of the future that led to the fall of his father.
Watching the new Episode 7 teaser the burnt mask of Vader and the skull within actually feels chilling knowing that it was just once a little boy who made bad choices. Maybe it is because I'm a father of a 4 going on 5 year old boy.
No one, and I mean no one who didn't purposely go out to spoiler themselves prior to Attack of the Clones coming out thought that the Jedi would be fighting beside an army of storm troopers as allies. Probably the biggest twist no one gives George Lucas credit for.
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