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So, I was wondering...what happened to XNA ?
- Thread starter eso76
- Start date
krypt0nian
Banned
eso76 said:
Apparently XNA may have plagarized a DOA4 faq and has been pulled pending further investigation.
sableholic
Member
Close but actually....http://www.microsoft.com/xna/faq.aspx
Q: What is XNA?
A: XNA is Microsoft's next-generation software development platform, focused on enabling developers to make better games faster.
There are three phases to our XNA strategy:
Smart alignment - bringing together the best of Windows and Xbox software development tools
Team Collaboration - With XNA Studio we will deliver a common file format, build process and integrated tool suite to optimize process and workflow for all team members.
Pluggable components - Throughout the HD era, it's our commitment to improve all aspects of cross-platform development including building a game framework with the industry, and better integrated testing tools
Q: What is XNA Studio
A: XNA Studio is the visual studio for game development. It is an integrated team-based development environment tailored for game production. Today's game teams are wrestling with the challenges of growing content requirements, larger and more specialized teams, increasingly complex workflow and increased outsourcing. XNA Studio will address these workflow challenges by delivering an advanced build framework driven by a unified file format. The build framework is partnered with an integrated tool suite to optimize the game production process for all team members.
Q: Is XNA Studio different from XNA?
A: Yes. XNA Studio is the primary development environment for the XNA platform and will be the first product to ship under the XNA brand.
Q: What is XNA?
A: XNA is Microsoft's next-generation software development platform, focused on enabling developers to make better games faster.
There are three phases to our XNA strategy:
Smart alignment - bringing together the best of Windows and Xbox software development tools
Team Collaboration - With XNA Studio we will deliver a common file format, build process and integrated tool suite to optimize process and workflow for all team members.
Pluggable components - Throughout the HD era, it's our commitment to improve all aspects of cross-platform development including building a game framework with the industry, and better integrated testing tools
Q: What is XNA Studio
A: XNA Studio is the visual studio for game development. It is an integrated team-based development environment tailored for game production. Today's game teams are wrestling with the challenges of growing content requirements, larger and more specialized teams, increasingly complex workflow and increased outsourcing. XNA Studio will address these workflow challenges by delivering an advanced build framework driven by a unified file format. The build framework is partnered with an integrated tool suite to optimize the game production process for all team members.
Q: Is XNA Studio different from XNA?
A: Yes. XNA Studio is the primary development environment for the XNA platform and will be the first product to ship under the XNA brand.
krypt0nian
Banned
Jerkface said:
....oh snap!
Marathon said:
Are you sure about that? I remember reading quite a bit about XNA and I don't think what you are saying is quite correct. I remember them mentioning it was a suite of development tools that applied to both the 360 and PC to streamline development for one, the other or both.
krypt0nian
Banned
Marathon said:
Sleep posting explains much.
element
Member
XNA is many things and really doesn't fall on to one single area (XNA is tool, XNA is a platform, XNA is an idea).
Many tools that fall into XNA are being used and have been used for a while now. HLSL, XUI (UI tool for Xbox 360), XACT (Audio).
At GDC they will show off XNA Studio which is VS 2005 with Team Test and their new XML content managment/asset managment thing called XIF. It is kinda cool sounding.
Many tools that fall into XNA are being used and have been used for a while now. HLSL, XUI (UI tool for Xbox 360), XACT (Audio).
At GDC they will show off XNA Studio which is VS 2005 with Team Test and their new XML content managment/asset managment thing called XIF. It is kinda cool sounding.
XACT is being ported to the PC as we speak. XUI should get ported shortly as well. HLSL is already used in Xbox, Xbox 360, and PC games. XIF is open platform. You could technically use it on a multiplatform game for Xbox 360 and PS3 if you wanted.Marathon said:
element said:
Really? As a developer, from everything I have read - it really sounded like a suite of tools. A platform? Hmmmm, Windows is a platform. If XNA was an OS, I would say it falls into that category - but from the sounds of it, it doesn't.
How can it be considered a platform?
XNA Studio sounds like Visual Studio - so I would assume (I can only assume since I don't use it) that its a development tool or set of them.
Every console company has always provided a suite of development tools for developers outside of the essentials to build and ship a game.
From tile creation/editing/layout tools back in the 2D days, to texture and art exporting tools more recently. Tons of sound tools since so few people are really qualified or want to write sound stuff.
There are internal developer only websites that have news, forums, and download areas for every console maker. Tools are constantly getting updated and released on these sites. And new and better tools continue to pop up on the developer sites over the life of a console.
The bigger a developer you are the less likely you are to actually use the supplied tools. Very often the supplied tools are used as templates to write your own custom internal tools that fit into your company's existing toolchain(s).
The 360 devtool stuff is no different other than they decided for some reason to try to brand their tools with the XNA name.
From tile creation/editing/layout tools back in the 2D days, to texture and art exporting tools more recently. Tons of sound tools since so few people are really qualified or want to write sound stuff.
There are internal developer only websites that have news, forums, and download areas for every console maker. Tools are constantly getting updated and released on these sites. And new and better tools continue to pop up on the developer sites over the life of a console.
The bigger a developer you are the less likely you are to actually use the supplied tools. Very often the supplied tools are used as templates to write your own custom internal tools that fit into your company's existing toolchain(s).
The 360 devtool stuff is no different other than they decided for some reason to try to brand their tools with the XNA name.
element
Member
I think almost every Xbox 360 game will end up using XACT.
XNA is to move away from 'bad' support tools and provide strong tools that everyone can use no matter what company they work for. The reason why developer used to make their own exporters and tools is because the provided ones sucked and a developer could make their own tool and have it do what they want, but that takes away from actual game development time. Which is what XNA is all about to provide a very robust toolset and development enviroment that allows developers to start working on the game, not working on getting something to work right with the thing because the other thing on a previous version was done a different way.
If MS can do it, more power to them.
Well MS provided much more tools then Sony did. Which is why Sony bought SN Systems to complete on development tools.
Nightmarecast25
Banned
It got delayed. :lol
Just like everything else on the 360.
Just like everything else on the 360.
inpHilltr8r
Member
So it's .NET for games.element said:
CountZeroInt
Banned
Basically things like integrating with 360's cool dashboard features, online games, audio/dvd, even dreaded certification will be painless compared to the agony which has accompanied these things in the past. Believe it or not little things like streaming from and to DVD, or audio libraries are some of the most "okay, let's reinvent the wheel for the 400th time" things in game development. Code is re-written from scratch for almost no reason, and this is 100 times worse in Japan than it is anywhere else, which makes me understand why Japanese devs don't complain about Sony more than they probably do.
PizzaFarmer
Member
I'll break forum convention and give actual specifics instead of a personal interpretation of a dripping-with-PR press conference. 
XNA components already available:
-PIX for Windows games (available in DX SDK, ported from Xbox/Xbox360 SDK)
-XACT for Windows games (available in DX SDK, ported from Xbox/Xbox360 SDK)
-Common controller support for Windows games (Xbox 360 gamepad for Windows PCs, XInput library)
Announced XNA components in development:
-XNA Studio (beta available at GDC 2006).
Anyone who says its delayed has an incorrect understanding. XNA is an initiative, not a single product, some parts of which have already shipped.
Anyone who thinks it's a simple rebranding of existing Xbox or Xbox 360 dev tools also has an incorrect understanding. The scope of XNA Studio is huge; a much larger undertaking than just porting a single tool, library or runtime.
XNA components already available:
-PIX for Windows games (available in DX SDK, ported from Xbox/Xbox360 SDK)
-XACT for Windows games (available in DX SDK, ported from Xbox/Xbox360 SDK)
-Common controller support for Windows games (Xbox 360 gamepad for Windows PCs, XInput library)
Announced XNA components in development:
-XNA Studio (beta available at GDC 2006).
Anyone who says its delayed has an incorrect understanding. XNA is an initiative, not a single product, some parts of which have already shipped.
Anyone who thinks it's a simple rebranding of existing Xbox or Xbox 360 dev tools also has an incorrect understanding. The scope of XNA Studio is huge; a much larger undertaking than just porting a single tool, library or runtime.
PizzaFarmer said:
The scope of all console maker's library of tools is huge.
The scope of most console developer's library of tools is huge.
The scope of the tools required for most modern games is huge.
Virtually every console development house has tools they plan to turn into 'something huge' that unifies and streamlines all their development efforts and so on and so on.
The branding of their developer tools is one of the few things Microsoft managed to not screw up with the 360 in that is has got a lot of people believing in the 'teh power of XNA'
PizzaFarmer
Member
You can't reword yourself out of being wrong, although pointing towards others that know even less who cling to 'teh power of XNA' is probably a good start.Marathon said:
PizzaFarmer said:I'll break forum convention and give actual specifics instead of a personal interpretation of a dripping-with-PR press conference.
XNA components already available:
-PIX for Windows games (available in DX SDK, ported from Xbox/Xbox360 SDK)
-XACT for Windows games (available in DX SDK, ported from Xbox/Xbox360 SDK)
-Common controller support for Windows games (Xbox 360 gamepad for Windows PCs, XInput library)
Announced XNA components in development:
-XNA Studio (beta available at GDC 2006).
Anyone who thinks it's a simple rebranding of existing Xbox or Xbox 360 dev tools also has an incorrect understanding. The scope of XNA Studio is huge; a much larger undertaking than just porting a single tool, library or runtime.
Didn't you just prove Marathon's point? As of right now, it is a simple rebranding of existing Xbox or Xbox 360 dev tools - the only thing new is that there are Windows versions. That's probably why he calls bullshit on it right now (and frankly I agree with him).
That's not to say XNA Studio isn't going to be new and cool, but since it's not out yet, "XNA" at this point is nothing we haven't seen already - pure marketing hype at this point.
That said, PIX is pretty rad.
PizzaFarmer
Member
I probably should have qualified my comments with this: Some of us have a lot of specific details on what exactly XNA Studio does.Argyle said:Didn't you just prove Marathon's point? As of right now, it is a simple rebranding of existing Xbox or Xbox 360 dev tools - the only thing new is that there are Windows versions. That's probably why he calls bullshit on it right now (and frankly I agree with him).
That's not to say XNA Studio isn't going to be new and cool, but since it's not out yet, "XNA" at this point is nothing we haven't seen already - pure marketing hype at this point.
That said, PIX is pretty rad.
Calling the whole thing a marketing rebrand of existing 360 tools ignores that MS actually hired up a new dedicated team to work on tools for improving the process of game development. Sure, the whole thing started by helping Windows game dev tools get caught up with Xbox, but even that involves more work than the trivial marketing attempt to get credit for Xbox 360 dev tools that Marathon suggests.
Considering that XNA consists of software that has shipped as promised and another promised future product on track for beta at GDC 2006, I don't see reason for breaking out the "XNA is vaporware / marketing BS!" claims just yet.
(On the other hand, if MS doesn't have the XNA Studio beta ready in time for GDC, then claims of XNA delay would actually be right for once)
Microsoft has scheduled a lot of events at the GDC for XNA, Microsoft Developers and so on. There's going to be plenty of talking about the 360 at the show. Heck, Epic is going to be showing more than a few sessions on Gears of War alone. Its going to be a very informative event this year indeed.
Stupid question time! (devs answer!)
If this is basically a fully fledged 360 IDE like say - VS.NET and it's being used or will be used to create PC games (which were created without the help of XNA for millions of years) and PC gets DX10 which isn't supported in HW by 360 - the how can this help PC games deving?
PC needs DX10, XNA doesn't need DX10 cause 360 doesn't support it.
Why PC devs need XNA? They sure got by without it and created hundreds of games.
I see a little problem here called "dumbing down (future) PC games to DX9-level".
If this is basically a fully fledged 360 IDE like say - VS.NET and it's being used or will be used to create PC games (which were created without the help of XNA for millions of years) and PC gets DX10 which isn't supported in HW by 360 - the how can this help PC games deving?
PC needs DX10, XNA doesn't need DX10 cause 360 doesn't support it.
Why PC devs need XNA? They sure got by without it and created hundreds of games.
I see a little problem here called "dumbing down (future) PC games to DX9-level".
PizzaFarmer said:
Hey, I never said it was late
I'm just saying that it is marketing BS in the sense that XNA brings nothing new to the table (as of now) even though I've heard about this XNA thing for a year or so, without really knowing what it's supposed to be.Has MS announced specifics about XNA Studio? Or are the "some of us" only Microsoft employees at this point?
PizzaFarmer
Member
Despite the Visual Studio-sounding name, XNA Studio actually isn't an IDE.Borys said:
Among other things, it's a fast, customizable command-line asset build with bug tracking system.
Some details are at www.microsoft.com/xna. Hint: As a game developer-focused project, you don't think MS would keep third parties in the dark on this, do you?Argyle said:
PizzaFarmer said:Despite the Visual Studio-sounding name, XNA Studio actually isn't an IDE.
Among other things, it's a fast, customizable command-line asset build with bug tracking system.
Some details are at www.microsoft.com/xna. Hint: As a game developer-focused project, you don't think MS would keep third parties in the dark on this, do you?
Well, let's be honest, there aren't too many specifics on that site, it sounds a lot like Alienbrain based on what's on there. There haven't been any updates in two years on this? No screenshots, no info on how this thing is really supposed to benefit developers?
...and really, you can't blame developers for thinking "this is marketing bullshit" when all they see are Xbox tools ported to Windows and stuff like this in the official XNA FAQ:
Q: What's the difference between Microsoft's XNA and Sony's Cell?
A: In the next generation, software-not hardware-will drive the games industry forward. Microsoft XNA software brings together chip and OEM partners to ultimately deliver thousands of integrated digital entertainment devices that work together and give consumers choice. Sony is talking about a fixed world of hardware that requires everyone to buy everything Sony. Sony's Cell is a hardware solution. This is a software revolution.
Don't get me wrong, I look forward to seeing what XNA Studio can do when it comes out, but you have to see why people are quite confused as to what XNA is. It does remind me of .NET when it was introduced - no one really knew what it was, and now it seems to have kind of solidified into a real product from a bunch of marketing vapor...
PizzaFarmer
Member
.NET is a good comparison and I can certainly see your point.Argyle said: