Yooooo, I haven't kept up with the emu scene since after the Dreamcast died (AKA the fast moving wonder years of emulation), but that is hugely awesome.
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Someone found a US version of the Nintendo 64 64DD
- Thread starter Mellahan
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Yooooo, I haven't kept up with the emu scene since after the Dreamcast died (AKA the fast moving wonder years of emulation), but that is hugely awesome.
Better off hoping for GameCube games on VC and the PAL version of Doshin the Giant.
RumblingRosco
Member
I believe the main point was the vast amount of re-writeable space. Up until that point, every byte of writeable memory was expensive. The discs would have allowed an enormous amount of save/peristence data for the day; you have to remember the PS2 and GameCube maxed out at 8MB; the 64DD would have allowed up to 32MB out the gate. The 64DD discs could also stream data faster than the PS1's CD Rom drive. The PS1's real-world bandwidth was somewhere around 200KB/sec while the 64DD had 1MB/sec.
The only downside it had was capacity. Hell, N64 cartridges still have lower latency than the current console's HDDs.
The guy who found it is a YouTuber, so I guess once he gets all his info together and finds out more about this thing we'll see something
Honestly, looking at the Mother 3 64DD screenshots, I'm so glad it was canceled and we got the much more charming, attractive GBA version in place of generic looking N64 3D game with blurry graphics and boxy characters.
An idea so bad Sega couldn't wait to make it their own.
The ultimate culmination of these half-baked ideas were the adoption of HDDs in the console space. And not just as an ill-conceived add-on released late in the life of the system in order to extend it, but as something that came included from day one.
I vaguely remember something like this announced... the short lived Zip-Drive trend. Hit around my freshman year of college so a lot of our classes required use of them. But they were fragile as hell, just as bad if not worse as the 3.5" floppies it was attempting to replace.
coughlanio
Member
I don't know if this is related but on the latest Bombcast, Dave Lang said he has a 64DD Dev Kit, which I assume is American.
Leatherface
Member
It still breaks my heart every time I think about being able to make my own FZero courses. :'(
Got a PC? Then you can make your own tracks using an editor that's far more expansive than Nintendo's own yet offers the same features
http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/434/
Creating and editing courses can also be done without a ROM - which enables for easy sharing. And when you copy your custom tracks to the ROM you can play it on the real hardware via an Everdrive 64, or use an emulator.
So yeah, Ive never understood why this editor never got more recognition.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Which emulator is capable of that?
LuigiBlood
Member
Project64 is able to save (you have to download a development version, I suggest to check a 64DD website I made which I cannot link).
CEN64 and MAME can also emulate it but it doesn't save.
And mupen64plus? Well I would like to make 64DD emulation work in the first place.
Another way to do this is to play a hacked version of F-Zero X that includes the Expansion Kit on a flashcart.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Using the flash card thing, you can play it on original hardware? And there is a patch that is fully functional in that? This seems to be the best option in my opinion. Does the 64DD not bring any hardware capabilities that would be required?
Holy shit! He was the guy who got it?
Good on him for wanting to bring people to extract the firmware and stuff.
electric turd
Banned
I never understood the point of this anyway. Supposedly the max disk size was 64mb which is the same as the normal N64 cartridge. So what was the reason?
It is re-writeable and expands the cartridge game. Think of DLC and user made content before the internet and hard drives were popular/cheap.
Rellik
Member
Damn, I want to know if it's a full game on that disc.
Got a PC? Then you can make your own tracks using an editor that's far more expansive than Nintendo's own yet offers the same features
http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/434/
Creating and editing courses can also be done without a ROM - which enables for easy sharing. And when you copy your custom tracks to the ROM you can play it on the real hardware via an Everdrive 64, or use an emulator.
So yeah, Ive never understood why this editor never got more recognition.
Wow. Rich you just made one of my dreams come true!
This and the Super Mario Kart track editor...Always wanted these!
IrishNinja
Member
Nintendo could rerelease this and the masses would pull out their N64s and buy this in a heartbeat,
i would! simcity 64 or whatever always looked cool, and model 1 genesis + sega-CD taught me stackable systems are so BALLER
Presumably you wanted the 64dd due to F Zero? If so, you missed out on the greatest F Zero game on the "lamecube" along with some of the best titles Nintendo has ever made. Shame.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
he just needs to buy a boat.
well, to be fair, the largest carts around N64 launch were 8MB. 4MB was the standard. we didn't see 16 MB carts until like a year later and 32MB carts until OoT came out.
going from 4-8MB carts to 64MB disks sounded a lot more appealing before launch. also, these disks would be a lot cheaper than carts. 64DD games were in the $20-$30 range when they originally released.
but yeah, a CD was still way bigger and cheaper, which made these disks pointless. the only way they'd have a chance is if the 64DD disk was the main media of the N64 and it didn't have carts (or if they worked like Saturn carts). being an add-on sealed its fate ever since the idea was thought up. i guess the sucess of the Famicom Disk System blinded them into thinking they could do it again.
nope. the 64DD is mostly just a storage device concerning F-Zero X + Expansion Kit.
the only thing you lose is the ability to save ghosts because it uses the disk's save space to store them (the cart can hold 1 ghost. the 64DD disk holds up to 408)
the rest of the game could fit in a 64MB cart. most tracks are under 10 kilobytes in size so even 100 courses wouldn't even fit one MB.
this is why it sucks even more that Nintendo has never re-released it. they don't need to add anything to the emulator if they just modify the rom a bit.
Got a PC? Then you can make your own tracks using an editor that's far more expansive than Nintendo's own yet offers the same features
http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/434/
Creating and editing courses can also be done without a ROM - which enables for easy sharing. And when you copy your custom tracks to the ROM you can play it on the real hardware via an Everdrive 64, or use an emulator.
So yeah, Ive never understood why this editor never got more recognition.
to be fair and precise, the actual EK can do things that are impossible in the vanilla rom and this editor. the opposite is true too.
one thing the EK can do that this can't is have tracks with 8 jump plates or 32 zippers. the rom maxes out at like 2 or 4 jumps and can only do 21 zippers (or 42 if there's absolutely no other track details)
i know because some of my custom tracks from the EK are impossible to recreate with this editor.
FZX with the EK is slightly different than vanilla FZX. it's like modern games after a patch.
MrCunningham
Member
The average N64 cartridge was never 64MB, the largest N64 carts were 64MB, and there were only about 3 or 4 of them. Conker's Bad Fur Day, Resident Evil 2 and Pokemon Stadium 2 and possibly something else that I might be forgetting.
The earliest N64 cartridges were anywhere from 4-8MB's in size (Mario 64 and Pilotwings 64 were both 8MB), and 64MB cartridges weren't really a thing until the final year of the N64's life cycle. Typically most N64 cartridges in the system's later life were anywhere from 16-32MB's.
Early on in the N64's life cycle the 64DD could have made some sense. 64DD disks would have been much cheaper to produce than 64MB cartridges and it didn't require an additional battery or EPROM's for saving as they are essentially just custom re-writable floppy disks. They didn't really work that much differently from old zip drives. But since it was held off to 2000, the add-on probably made no sense for Nintendo as they were in deep development of Project Dolphin (The GameCube). There were quite a few N64 games that were cancelled or not localised for the N64 to be pushed over to the Game Cube... Dinosaur Planet (Star Fox Adventures) , Resident Evil 0, Eternal Darkness, and Animal Crossing was left behind in Japan in favour of an enhanced GameCube port.
Really cool video from MJR, I can't wait to see what they will find on that disk. Finding a test unit for NA release is incredible and is a one of a kind item.
CartridgeBlower
Member
So does anyone know how he got it? Private seller? Thrift store? He doesn't seem to mention in the video.
Crazy it was him though. I saw the video pop up in my subscriptions feed and was like 'holy shit, it was HIM who found it?!' Awesome.
Crazy it was him though. I saw the video pop up in my subscriptions feed and was like 'holy shit, it was HIM who found it?!' Awesome.
Yeah good for him. Probably one of the best people who could find it. Starting to really like MJR and his vids (Reggie is the shit)
Wow I was checking Youtube and noticed MetalJesusRocks had uploaded a video that looked like he was the one handling the unit and well, turns out it was him who found it, that's neat.
I remember reading about the DD in magazines as a kid and not really understanding much outside of the fact that a Zelda game was supposedly in development, so seeing the unit is kind of nostalgic, all this time though it never really occurred to me that NoA had plans to bring it over at some point.
I'm glad it was someone like him who found it. MJR is a pretty great guy and he's clearly interested in helping to bring the most out of his discovery. Exciting stuff!
Oh and I love the irony in how the first person to ever show this to the world didn't really know the 64DD was a thing to begin with haha.
I remember reading about the DD in magazines as a kid and not really understanding much outside of the fact that a Zelda game was supposedly in development, so seeing the unit is kind of nostalgic, all this time though it never really occurred to me that NoA had plans to bring it over at some point.
I'm glad it was someone like him who found it. MJR is a pretty great guy and he's clearly interested in helping to bring the most out of his discovery. Exciting stuff!
Oh and I love the irony in how the first person to ever show this to the world didn't really know the 64DD was a thing to begin with haha.
Came to this thread cos i sub to Metal Jesus Rocks on youtube, and was about to say who he was and link his video but he is already known by some on Gaf, so thats cool.
If you dont know his channel, he covers tons of retro stuff and some modern stuff, he likes collecting big boxed p.c games and one time he worked for sierra games, gamin eats where him and usually drunken master paul will cook up some of their favourite snacks to eat for gaming, also as you can tell by his youtube name he loves heavy metal and sometimes reviews metal releases, especially vinyl records.
Probably more stuff but i forget.
And i'm totally jealous of his collection.
If you dont know his channel, he covers tons of retro stuff and some modern stuff, he likes collecting big boxed p.c games and one time he worked for sierra games, gamin eats where him and usually drunken master paul will cook up some of their favourite snacks to eat for gaming, also as you can tell by his youtube name he loves heavy metal and sometimes reviews metal releases, especially vinyl records.
Probably more stuff but i forget.
And i'm totally jealous of his collection.
Nah, nothing can beat Play Station. Maybe only this thing:
would've happened if pokemon didn't become such a huge phenomenon
the pokemon giveth and the pokemon taketh away
Nah, nothing can beat Play Station. Maybe only this thing:
Really curious why they ended up with shoulder buttons instead of 4 face buttons, or both.
I always thought having the complete SNES pad was a better option than what we got with the GBA. Although in the end the DS had it.
I remember rumors that they thought of 4 face buttons but one of the reasons it got cut was they didn't want devs shoveling the SNES library onto it.
And then Nintendo shoved a bunch of their SNES library onto it anyway.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I think shoulder buttons are preferrable over four face buttons. With two face buttons and two shoulder buttons you can conveniently always press four buttons in any combination, with four face buttons you are limited to two, but can change which two. Therefore I think shoulder buttons are more flexible than additional face buttons.
Yep. One of the reasons that Miyamoto mentioned for the small size of GameCube disks (after Nintendo was dragged kicking and screaming into providing an optical disk drive at all) was that Nintendo wanted to send a message that developers "don't need" to make large games. (And other provided reasons were flat-out lies, like Nintendo claiming they did it to improve loading times, when the inner rings of a DVD are actually the slowest-loading part of a DVD.)
I'm sure that they deliberately crippled the GBA to send a "be creative, no easy ports" message to developers.
whynotboth.gif
Oh right, because that would automatically turn the GBA's controls into a copy of one of the most popular and influential controllers of all time. On a handheld system that had finally reached the point of being able to do SNES ports justice. We sure don't want that!
MikeE21286
Member
It's so cool that he was the one who found it. A genuinely enthusiastic collector.
Been watching him for a couple months
LuigiBlood
Member
Unfortunately that's not how it works.
He needs a development drive and a 64drive at the very least to know the contents of the disk. A Partner-N64 cartridge will not do wonders without the rest of the dev kit, in fact.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
I love stuff like this.
I thought this was known? The reason Nintendo passed was because add-ons from Sega around the similar time-frame were completely bombing.
I always thought people put too much stock in the "add-ons never succeed" theory that was floating around at the time. I felt that add-ons could work if you had the right add-on (more Sega CD, way less 32X), but 64DD wasn't the right add-on. Third party support never lined up the way Nintendo wanted it to, causing delay after delay after delay, until even Nintendo's own support faltered ("Zelda 64 works just fine on a cart"), and we don't even need to look at Sega's add-on sales since Nintendo products typically launched in Japan first, and the 64DD bombed in Japan.
By the end, I don't think anyone had any Virtual Boy-esque dreams that the 64DD could succeed, I think they just released it in Japan because they could, but NOA looked at all the numbers and they couldn't even muster up that much indifference.
But early on, everyone at Nintendo was much more enthusiastic. The 64DD was announced at Shoshinkai (Space World) in late 1995, and Square bailed in January 1996 (before the N64 even launched). The copyright date on the bottom says 1996 comma 1997, which I think means that they ran it past the lawyers in 1996 (maybe hoping for an at-launch add-on), and made a legally-distinct second attempt in 1997. Nintendo of America would've been a lot more enthusiastic for it back then (back when Zelda 64 was still a 64DD title) than they were in late 1999 when the 64DD finally limped out past the starting gates in Japan.
Unless Nintendo of America got the jump on Japan, I think the best they could've hoped for was a 2000 launch (the F-Zero X disk only released in Japan in April 2000), and then... just take one look at Spaceworld 2000 (aka GameCube is coming and it's going to launch in 2001 and be AMAZING). NOA just needed a couple of games to last them through 2000, not to start building a distraction that would take away from Nintendo's new #1 priority.
Wow, I heard about this the other day but didn't realize it was metal jesus who found it. I listened to him on the All Gen Gamers podcast. It sucks that he left and they pretty much stopped recording now.
This is awesome and I hope he can find a way to get that disk running but I won't hold my breath. It'll probably be a while.
This is awesome and I hope he can find a way to get that disk running but I won't hold my breath. It'll probably be a while.
LuigiBlood
Member
Nintendo of America actually cancelled the 64DD before it was released in Japan, like a few months before the release in Japan. It's not about the fact that it bombed in Japan, NoA just didn't believe in it anymore and wanted to release Mario Artist Paint Studio on cartridge as "Mario Artist & Camera" instead. Though that didn't make it.
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