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[OmegaSpirit32X]

Absolutely not. They are fucking busywork, a task that is repetitive right from the start in a mind numbing way. Worst of all, they are required to unlock Metal Sonic in SADX and Green Hill in SA2, so I was forced to waste my time on these abominations.

She was slow, clumsy, her level segements weren't very fun and the camera did not support the Amy playstyle very well.

Whether it had more or less charme when compared Mario 64's is of course a matter of taste, but it stood in the way of the arcady gameplay of Sonic and was sometimes pretty obtuse. Mario 64's overworld made much more sense from a gameplay perspective, because it matched the core mechanics of Mario better, it was more compact and thus a lot more fun in my opinion.

isn't that pretty much the point? a lot of us spent hours on the thing in how complex they were, why do you think people wnat them to comeback so hard?

you can make the point for the camera but otherwise amy's thing was that she played more like a normal platformer.

Sonic Adventure, like Sonic 3&K before it focused more on scale and story than just being an arcadey game, sure it still had arcadey elements with Sonic, Tails and maybe the odd minigame, but i think Adventure 1 was seeking to be more of a home console experience.

 

[cireza]

I'd rather play Sonic Adventure.

 

[Yoshi]

isn't that pretty much the point? a lot of us spent hours on the thing in how complex they were, why do you think people wnat them to comeback so hard?

you can make the point for the camera but otherwise amy's thing was that she played more like a normal platformer.

Sonic Adventure, like Sonic 3&K before it focused more on scale and story than just being an arcadey game, sure it still had arcadey elements with Sonic, Tails and maybe the odd minigame, but i think Adventure 1 was seeking to be more of a home console experience.

Maybe but it failed in pretty much every regard that was not arcady gameplay. It is just what Sega excells at. I am pretty happy that over time Sega has gained the confidence to refocus on the arcady nature of Sonic and fully appreciate it.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

Maybe but it failed in pretty much every regard that was not arcady gameplay. It is just what Sega excells at. I am pretty happy that over time Sega has gained the confidence to refocus on the arcady nature of Sonic and fully appreciate it.

yeah, but i still miss the SA1/Unleashed hub worlds simply because likie i said i preffer how charming it was to talk to people and explore the cities.

 

[blacktout]

"Which is better Bioshock or Tetris?"

This would actually make for an interesting (if salty) thread. Really gets at fundamental questions about what factors are most important when judging the quality of a game.

I didn't say it didn't, I said there were times it was given away with the console, pay attention.

This is what you actually said:

Sonic Adventure sold over 2 million. Crash was more popular worldwide than M64, most of the 10 million were N64 giveaways with the console in NA. [emphasis mine]

We now know that this is completely untrue on multiple levels: The bundle was in PAL regions, not NA, and the bundle was relatively rare and didn't account for a significant number, let alone "most," of the game's sales.

If the controls were perfect than the controller it was designed to play on wouldn't be bad. The bad controller makes Mario's 64's controls bad by default, it plays bad even with a DS controller it plays bad on the DS too.

You do understand that a controller can be great for playing some games but awful for playing others, right? This is the entire reason that specialized controllers like arcade boards and flight sticks exist. The N64 controller is bad for games where you want access to the d-pad, buttons, and stick at the same time. Mario 64 does fuck all with the d-pad, and, in fact, the game plays incredibly well with the N64 controller. The OG analog stick is perfect for calibrating Mario's movement and the Z button placement is wonderfully intuitive for pulling off crawling and backflips. Every button that's used is placed perfectly and it's a joy to play on original hardware.

Can I ask you an honest question, OP? Have you actually played Mario 64 on an N64, or are you just taking common complaints about the system and mashing them together to make your argument? Because I've heard people argue that the N64 controller sucks before, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone argue that it sucks for playing Mario 64.

Crash Bandicoot can actually make this claim, even on Mario itself, not sure about Sonic.

How many modern 3D platformers—or modern 3D games, period—play like Crash today? OK, now, how many of them *still* play like Mario 64?

You can draw a straight line from Mario to Ocarina of Time and from Ocarina of Time to basically every 3rd person 3D game out there today.

What became Croc influenced M64, and Croc sold a lot and has a very loyal and attack ready fanbase, but lucky for you I don't think they are on this site.

I've been trying to engage seriously with your arguments up to this point, because you keep complaining that people are just dunking on you without making substantive points, but, come on. This comparison is absurd on its face. Do you really think Croc has a fanbase comparable to Mario 64? Or are you just going to respond by moving the goal posts and saying "I said Croc had a loyal fanbase, I never said it was as big as Mario's!" as if that statement would have any relevance to the central argument of this thread.

Console gamers projecting. Do you actually know there wasn't a quality 3D platformer on PC (or other) or do you just want to believe there wasn't because you aren't familiar with what came out on it?

Please name one, because those of us who were alive then sure can't remember any and basically every one of your argments thus far have been predicated on offering a hypothetical that you offer no evidence to support and then forcing the rest of us to call bullshit and disprove it.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Mario 64, hands down.

I loved Sonic as a kiddo, but never once touched Sonic Adventure. I know people really liked/loved it, but something about the camera and controls just didn't vibe with me at all. So I never touched any of them. I think the last Sonic game I've ever actually played was Sonic 3 or Sonic & Knuckles.

But man, Mario 64 was and still is so incredibly IMO.

 

[nkarafo]

yeah Adventure 1 had lots of things that influenced games like Ratchet & Clank, Jak & Daxter or Sly Cooper with the focus on story.

It wasn't even the first platform game with lots of cutscenes...

 

[Codes 208]

Mario 64 is still regarded as one of the best 3D collectathon/platformers and for good reasons.

sonic adventure was a buggy mess and wasn’t even the best sonic adventure game (that goes to SA2 or preferably SA2: Battle)

 

[MacReady13]

How the FUCK is this even a debate? Mario 64 shits all over SA, and I really like SA! Contrary to what the OP is trying to tell everyone (and trying to convince himself) Mario 64 revolutionized 3D gaming. I'm sure he will try come up with some bullshit saying some 3D platformer came out before it on PC or console and changed gaming and Miyamoto just copy and pasted it, but for those of us who were around at the time and are old enough to know what actually happened, Mario 64 changed the gaming landscape, no matter what 3D games came out before it. Mario 64 made it possible to believe 3D platformers in a semi open world could exist, and the rest is history.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

Mario 64 is still regarded as one of the best 3D collectathon/platformers and for good reasons.

sonic adventure was a buggy mess and wasn’t even the best sonic adventure game (that goes to SA2 or preferably SA2: Battle)

idk the problem with SA2 is how it felt more like a step back.
the mech stages didn't have as much momentum as Gamma's stages and for some reason they nerfed the treasure hunting radar so now you can only find 1 Emerald at a time, also instead of choosing one of 6 gameplay styles, you choose a story that cycles between 3 of them, only 1 one of wich, again, is remotely fun.

and sure the stages got resued in SA1, but atleast they were more varied than like 40-ish levels with only 5 themes (City, Jungle, Desert, Space) with maybe one or two exceptions and the hubworlds were fun to explore, the only thing SA2 has going for it is the improved Chao Garden. SA1 might be a little glitchy but i think it's more fun than SA2

 

[Werewolf Jones]

I was planning to Joker this thread yesterday and say Sonic Adventure but all the posts and one sided praise of 64 had me back the fuck out.

Adventure is fun, I don't hate it.

64 is a good game but some of the worlds are boring as fuck. Probably the most hype glitch to accomplish yourself is the stair hopping 16 stars thing.

 

[Fart Knight]

Rayman 3D

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Banjo was better than both.

 

[oagboghi2]

Banjo was better than both.

 

[Neff]

*sees who made the thread*

Yep

Except for Hazy Maze Cave. Didn't like it then, don't like it now. Fight me.

It's my favourite level, put 'em up

 

[Isleofsancroy]

There's alternative history from both sides in this thread. The 'you had to be there' people always amuse me with Super Mario 64 because they were likely kids themselves when the console came out, back then Crash was outselling Super Mario 64 3:1 with many gamers and casual onlookers being impressed with its graphics, it was the game that brought you more attention if you had a demo display in your store, Mario is retrospectively seen as the much more anticipated experience than it was at launch, but outside big gaming magazines this wasn't the case, newspaper op-eds were pro-crash and at electronic events the Crash display always had more people. But this is looked at as laughable now in 2021, because Crash 1 has aged terribly and most only go back and play Crash 2 and 3 much more often. It's easier to push the story that Mario 64 was a much bigger deal than Crash for this reason, but it wasn't.

Sonic Adventure is another game that people think was bigger than it was, it got crazy coverage by big gaming journalists and the graphics did look good on video, but people were more excited for Tekken, Crash 3, Spyro, and Banjo than Sonic Adventure, and were still buying Goldeneye. People say the American Dreamcast launch was great but it really didn't move people away from their PS1s, and Sonic Adventure has been guillotined by reviewers every time it has been rereleased, I think there are 5 or more ports of Sonic Adventure and almost each one scores less than the previous. It's just a broken exhausting game, It almost feels like you should get paid to playthrough it.

Crash is also in the poll, and for that all I can say it has aged terribly overtime, not in graphics but in gameplay design. It was big in 1996, and I understand why it was big in 1996 but today it's just really hard to play with the sequels being substantially better, and now that there's a remake of Crash 1 it makes going back to the original impossible outside curiosity or nostalgia. With Crash 2 and 3 I can see why many say the remakes may be worse or they are different enough that you can play both, but for Crash 1 there's little reason to play the original outside of the time it was new.

 

[Meicyn]

Sonky bad xdeee wacky cursed sanik so hilerious chilli dawg LOMAO

FUCK YOU

 

[Neff]

There's alternative history from both sides in this thread. The 'you had to be there' people always amuse me with Super Mario 64 because they were likely kids themselves when the console came out

Anecdotal but I was 21 at the time and fully aware of SM64's industry-rocking first Shoshinkai demonstration, massive pre-release hype, uniformly rapturous reception and generally significant exposure in the public eye. The game was huge and it turned heads of those who weren't even gamers. You really did have to be there at the very least to appreciate the technical status quo at the time and the giant fearless leap SM64 made over it.

For some reason you guys can't cope with that opinion

I think people are less upset that you refuse to put SM64 on a pedestal and more that you've created another dumb question thread seemingly without the benefit of information or experience, or the willingness to debate or listen, and then proceed to throw shit in it.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

fuck you x2

 

[Isleofsancroy]

Anecdotal but I was 21 at the time and fully aware of SM64's industry-rocking first Shoshinkai demonstration, massive pre-release hype, uniformly rapturous reception and generally significant exposure in the public eye. The game was huge and it turned heads of those who weren't even gamers. You really did have to be there at the very least to appreciate the technical status quo at the time and the giant fearless leap SM64 made over it.

Do you want to respond to by entire post or are you going to stay with that selective edit?

Here's what I posted

There's alternative history from both sides in this thread. The 'you had to be there' people always amuse me with Super Mario 64 because they were likely kids themselves when the console came out, back then Crash was outselling Super Mario 64 3:1 with many gamers and casual onlookers being impressed with its graphics, it was the game that brought you more attention if you had a demo display in your store, Mario is retrospectively seen as the much more anticipated experience than it was at launch, but outside big gaming magazines this wasn't the case, newspaper op-eds were pro-crash and at electronic events the Crash display always had more people. But this is looked at as laughable now in 2021, because Crash 1 has aged terribly and most only go back and play Crash 2 and 3 much more often. It's easier to push the story that Mario 64 was a much bigger deal than Crash for this reason, but it wasn't.

It's amazing how you can create a completely different conversation by selectively editing quotes, that's why I wouldn't recommend it. With that being said, Mario was still a major gaming release.

 

[Neff]

Do you want to respond to by entire post

If you like. From my view as a PSone owner at the time, Crash was successful mostly because it filled a gap Sony needed, not particularly because it was a good game. The PSone games making waves that year with the 20something crowd I was in were Resident Evil, Tekken 2, and of course Tomb Raider. And of those, only Tomb Raider matched SM64's wow factor. Ironically, Crash was seen as a kid's game while SM64 managed to sidestep that stigma due to being so revolutionary.

 

[IDKFA]

Spite thread.

The very existence of this thread and poll trigger me.

Mario 64 is one of the greatest games ever made. Sonic Adventure isn't worthy enough to be muttered in the same breath.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

Why do you hurt yourself OP? You know it’s only going one way.

I didn't care who wins, never did, nintendo fans are having meltdowns for no reason and are lying about me being a Sonic fan based on no information as cover for their meltdowns. Even you got that impression despite me barely mentioning Sonic this entire thread, you guys need to calm down, breath some air outside.

they managed to make a 3d game without having any references and managed to fit it on a cartridge with a small storage capacity. This was not the case for sonic. That game was released a couple years later and on a CD.

Lol without any references? They were looking at 3D games across genres.

We now know that this is completely untrue on multiple levels: The bundle was in PAL regions,

Lol you don't know anything, you did zero research you saw one guy find one SKU and decided that was the only bundle. Why even attempt to argue if you didn't even have the decency to not be lazy? You could look it up but you still won't after being proven wrong the first time, and now you're pretending the one time you were proven wrong is all there is? Wow. Even Pal had more than one bundle you have zero knowledge, zero. Another example?

The OG analog stick is perfect for calibrating Mario's movement and the Z button placement is wonderfully intuitive for pulling off crawling and backflips.

The N64 doesn't have an analog stick, it's a digital stick. It works but it's not ideal which is why the N64 is the only console that uses it's unique method for it's stick, but if you had knowledge you would have known it's not actually analog. I await you coming back telling me I'm wrong so you can be buried later.

How many modern 3D platformers—or modern 3D games, period—play like Crash today? OK, now, how many of them *still* play like Mario 64?

You can draw a straight line from Mario to Ocarina of Time and from Ocarina of Time to basically every 3rd person 3D game out there today.

Mario's highest praised 3D games play more like Crash than Mario 64. Odyssey the exception.

And PC had bigger game world's, more ambition, and deeper mechanics than both those games before and after you came out.

But please tell me how Skyrim or Theif took influence from Mario 64 and Zelda oot, go on.

I've been trying to engage serious with your arguments up to this point, because you keep complaining that people are just dunking on you without making substantive points, but, come on. This comparison is absurd on its face. Do you really think Croc has a fanbase comparable to Mario 64?

If you're going to attack me you should actually read the post you quoted. It says "What became Croc" not Croc itself. Interviews are there talking about how it started and how Nintendo took tech and ripped Argonaut off and then redesigned what they had into Croc and it taking them a year longer to release the game which upset them bla bla.

It's a common story, you should look into it. Instead of misreading my post and thinking I said Croc influenced Mario 64.

 

[Captain Toad]

Lol M MvCSpiderman is still digging this hole?

Acting like Mario 64 isn't regarded as one of the best and most influential video games ever made.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

Lol M MvCSpiderman is still digging this hole?

Acting like Mario 64 isn't regarded as one of the best and most influential video games ever made.

So you're lying about an argument that was never made. Cool.

 

[blacktout]

Lol you don't know anything, you did zero research you saw one guy find one SKU and decided that was the only bundle. Why even attempt to argue if you didn't even have the decency to not be lazy? You could look it up but you still won't after being proven wrong the first time, and now you're pretending the one time you were proven wrong is all there is? Wow. Even Pal had more than one bundle you have zero knowledge, zero. Another example?

Here's an idea, since you're the one making claims that every single other person in this threads disputes, how about you provide evidence to support your claim? Please, let's see evidence of other bundles, and, more importantly, let's see evidence that the majority of copies of Mario 64 were sold in bundles like you originally claimed It's fucking hilarious that you would accuse us of being lazy when you haven't even attempted to produce any proof at all of any the claims you've made in this thread.

The N64 doesn't have an analog stick, it's a digital stick. It works but it's not ideal which is why the N64 is the only console that uses it's unique method for it's stick, but if you had knowledge you would have known it's not actually analog. I await you coming back telling me I'm wrong so you can be buried later.

The stick on the N64 is widely referred to as an analog stick, even though it functions somewhat differently than most modern analog sticks. This semantic game has absolutely nothing to do with the point I made about how Mario 64 plays on original hardware. Of course, you know this, since you opted not to answer my question about whether you, personally, have played the game with an N64 controller. You do realize that it's transparently obvious to everyone reading this thread that you're being disingenuous and playing rhetorical games and that's why you're getting relentlessly dunked on, right?

Mario's highest praised 3D games play more like Crash than Mario 64. Odyssey the exception.

No, they don't. I think you have to mean the Galaxy games here, since 3D World and Land aren't the "highest praised" Mario games, and so I guess you're saying they're more like Crash because ... the levels are more linear? Is that the argument you're making? Because the Galaxy games owe a huge debt to Mario 64 in terms of mechanics, level variety, Mario's move set, structure, graphical and enemy design, and ... Hell, everything. If you stripped all of the identifiable assets out of the Galaxy games, Crash, and Mario 64 and had asked who had never played any of the games before which ones were mostly closely related, I guarantee you they would say Galaxy 1 and 2 are closer to 64 than Crash.

And PC had bigger game world's, more ambition, and deeper mechanics than both those games before and after you came out.

Huh, once again, no examples given. Of course, it would be difficult to give examples if you haven't actually played a game released before 2010.

But please tell me how Skyrim or Theif took influence from Mario 64 and Zelda oot, go on.

I said "3rd person 3D games," so you decided to refute my point by naming two (primarily) 1st person games? I'm not sure if you're trolling or if this entire thread is just an exercise in poor reading comprehension.

If you're going to attack me you should actually read the post you quoted. It says "What became Croc" not Croc itself. Interviews are there talking about how it started and how Nintendo took tech and ripped Argonaut off and then redesigned what they had into Croc and it taking them a year longer to release the game which upset them bla bla.

This is what you said:

What became Croc influenced M64, and Croc sold a lot and has a very loyal and attack ready fanbase, but lucky for you I don't think they are on this site.

I was responding to "Croc sold a lot and has a very loyal and attack ready fanbase," not the Argonaut Games story. I know that story, but I don't want to add another front to this stupid fight by trying to explain how you're exaggerating their influence on Mario 64.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

User brings up something, I respond, says my response is semantics when it was based on something he brought up.

Dodges my points with different arguments that weren't part of the conversation.

Says I'm exaggerating Crocs influence when I only mentioned it in passing within one sentence. Oh wait it wasn't croc it was the game that became croc, messed up twice in a row on reading comprehension blacktout. Uh oh.

Here's an idea, since you're the one making claims that every single other person in this threads disputes, how about you provide evidence to support your claim?

You can't use this argument twice because you already messed up and had this argument debunked last time when the other user posted the last bundle image. You already tripled down and got wooped then. I'd figure by now you'd TRY and look up the bundles, but you're still arguing for the sake of arguing without education.

Now your tripling down on saying there's only one bundle. Here, I'll purposefully post only one other bundle:

Oh no blacktout oh no! You done goofed again! Like I said you never "knew" anything.

So are you going to try this time or are you going to triple down everytime, punishing yourself until we have enough pics in this thread were you can't deny bundles were a major contributor to Mario 64 sales? (This slightly goes for Mario Kart too.)

I'm waiting to see if you say "uh uh uh yeah but I bet there isn't 3" so I can post a third one. You dont seem like a person that will give up. Or maybe you'll look it up and admit there were multiple pack-ins.

 

[blacktout]

Dodges my points with different arguments that weren't part of the conversation.

This is obviously what you've been doing throughout this entire thread, and I don't think I'm guilty of it at all. If anything, I've been trying to pin your slippery rhetoric down. But I guess that's up to those reading to decide.

Says I'm exaggerating Crocs influence when I only mentioned it in passing within one sentence. Oh wait it wasn't croc it was the game that became croc, messed up twice in a row on reading comprehension blacktout. Uh oh.

You've become completely incoherent. The unreleased prototype that came before Croc has a loyal fanbase? Is that what you're trying to argue? Or are you trying to deflect from the line I quoted again?

You can't use this argument twice because you already messed up and had this argument debunked last time when the other user posted the last bundle image. You already tripled down and got wooped then. I'd figure by now you'd TRY and look up the bundles, but you're still arguing for the sake of arguing without education.

What? I just checked and my first post about the bundle situation was the one where I posted the larger image of the PAL bundle, so, no, I never argued that no bundle existed. You're either confusing or intentionally conflating me with someone else.

Now your tripling down on saying there's only one bundle. Here, I'll purposefully post only one other bundle:

Do you have a source for this? I just tineyed it and all the results are just of generic N64 bundles without the Mario 64 box (sticker?). I don't want to suggest that this might be a photoshop, but ... that Mario 64 logo/box/sticker/whatever placement is pretty fucking weird.

Edit: Really fucked this post up somehow. Fixed it.

 

[Trimesh]

I can say that I got an N64 for Christmas in 1996, and it didn't come bundled with any games. (I live in the US.) I'm pretty sure that was standard at the time, but it doesn't rule out the existence of a more expensive deluxe bundle, or the (probably very likely) possibility than Mario 64 was bundled with the N64 in North America later in the console's life. It's also possible that the PAL bundle above is from a few years after launch. Who knows.

There was also a bundled Mario 64 package in Hong Kong - it was rather strange because the actual console was a Japanese spec NTSC machine but supplied with a 220V power supply equipped with a BS1363 UK style plug. The copy of Mario 64 that came with it was a special "HKG" version that had an US English ROM chip but in a case that had the correct cutouts to fit into a Japanese spec console.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

There was also a bundled Mario 64 package in Hong Kong - it was rather strange because the actual console was a Japanese spec NTSC machine but supplied with a 220V power supply equipped with a BS1363 UK style plug. The copy of Mario 64 that came with it was a special "HKG" version that had an US English ROM chip but in a case that had the correct cutouts to fit into a Japanese spec console.

So there's 3 now.

Do you have a source for this? I just tineyed it and all the results are just of generic N64 bundles without the Mario 64 box (sticker?). I don't want to suggest that this might be a photoshop, but ... that Mario 64 logo/box/sticker/whatever placement is pretty fucking weird.

Edit: Really fucked this post up somehow. Fixed it.

Really?

 

[Trimesh]

So there's 3 now.

Yeah, strangely I don't think the N64 was ever sold bundled in Japan (at least I've never seen one) - but Japan is also the place where they sold the Super Famicom in a package with the console and two controllers - but no power supply (and no pack-in game).

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Sonic Adventure has better music, fully fledged story, better levels, better hub world, longer, etc.

I seriously struggle to think of anything that 64 does better than it.

Edit: Hilarious to see people confront me with reaction images instead of actual arguments. I'm seeing lots of one-sentence answers in this thread with no elaboration as to why 64 is particularly better than Adventure. INB4 people parrot IGN's 'hurr durr it aged badly' ad infinitum without giving any due deliberation to that wrongful sentiment.

Better Gameplay with much better controls and physics, allowing for fluid movement and mechanics that are both easy to learn but hard to master.

Mario64 plays great from the very first second. Sonic Adventure.. plays fine after you got into it.

 

[Isleofsancroy]

If you like. From my view as a PSone owner at the time, Crash was successful mostly because it filled a gap Sony needed, not particularly because it was a good game. The PSone games making waves that year with the 20something crowd I was in were Resident Evil, Tekken 2, and of course Tomb Raider. And of those, only Tomb Raider matched SM64's wow factor. Ironically, Crash was seen as a kid's game while SM64 managed to sidestep that stigma due to being so revolutionary.

In consensus Mario 64 was considered the kids game and Crash was considered the one with attitude, so I find your anecdote a curiosity. Just like saying it wasn't a good game, it was pushed just as hard if not harder than Mario 64 by the press and gamers for it's superb gameplay.

I don't actually agree with that mind, I can see how people thought that when it was new, but it's aged terribly, and there's a reason why Crash 2 and 3 are the ones people go back to most often.

But your comment about needing to fill a gap puzzles me because Sony already had some fine rated platformers on the system before Crash. Rayman being the biggest of the early platformer releases, with Jumping Flash specifically for 3D platformers, incidentally both Jumping Flash 1 and Jumping Flash 2 were out before Crash and both were received positively, so I don't see how Sony had a gap to fill, and if we are talking about Platformers in general Rayman on the PS1 was almost as big as Crash, sold 5 million copies on it.

 

[oagboghi2]

I didn't care who wins, never did, nintendo fans are having meltdowns for no reason and are lying about me being a Sonic fan based on no information as cover for their meltdowns. Even you got that impression despite me barely mentioning Sonic this entire thread, you guys need to calm down, breath some air outside.


Lol without any references? They were looking at 3D games across genres.



Lol you don't know anything, you did zero research you saw one guy find one SKU and decided that was the only bundle. Why even attempt to argue if you didn't even have the decency to not be lazy? You could look it up but you still won't after being proven wrong the first time, and now you're pretending the one time you were proven wrong is all there is? Wow. Even Pal had more than one bundle you have zero knowledge, zero. Another example?



The N64 doesn't have an analog stick, it's a digital stick. It works but it's not ideal which is why the N64 is the only console that uses it's unique method for it's stick, but if you had knowledge you would have known it's not actually analog. I await you coming back telling me I'm wrong so you can be buried later.


Mario's highest praised 3D games play more like Crash than Mario 64. Odyssey the exception.

And PC had bigger game world's, more ambition, and deeper mechanics than both those games before and after you came out.

But please tell me how Skyrim or Theif took influence from Mario 64 and Zelda oot, go on.


If you're going to attack me you should actually read the post you quoted. It says "What became Croc" not Croc itself. Interviews are there talking about how it started and how Nintendo took tech and ripped Argonaut off and then redesigned what they had into Croc and it taking them a year longer to release the game which upset them bla bla.

It's a common story, you should look into it. Instead of misreading my post and thinking I said Croc influenced Mario 64.

Mario 3D games play like Crash? The fuck are you talking about?

What are the names of 3D platformers on PC that you keep accusing Nintendo of aping from? You make up these bullshit accusations, never back them up, and then act like you are a victim when people dismiss your obvious trolling.

 

[Aldynes]

OP getting banned, what a surprise, you can't have a good discussion on gaming especially with a subject like this one, if you just outright deny facts or RE-write history when it's not convenient to your beliefs without bringing something to support your arguments...

 

[blacktout]

Really?

F.

In consensus Mario 64 was considered the kids game and Crash was considered the one with attitude, so I find your anecdote a curiosity. Just like saying it wasn't a good game, it was pushed just as hard if not harder than Mario 64 by the press and gamers for it's superb gameplay.

I think this might be a case where both of you are right. If you were in your teens at the time, Crash probably seemed cool and Mario kiddy, but if you were in your 20s, they probably both seemed like they were made for children but Mario might still have gotten your attention because of its mechanical innovation. I was only, like, 13 at the time, but I can't imagine Crash's brand of attitude being particularly appealing to college students (at least not without the benefit of nostalgia).

 

[SpiceRacz]

Sonic Adventure has better music

 

[Silvawuff]

Mario 64 should be (and probably is) mandatory study in the core philosophy of game design. I think SA did some important things on the hardware side of gaming at the time, but as a game it was kinda...eh?

I wouldn't say it's even fair to compare them, because they brought different things to the table during a very crucial point of game design history, during a transition to more powerful hardware.

 

[Neff]

In consensus Mario 64 was considered the kids game and Crash was considered the one with attitude

Certainly didn't see it like that, even here in the UK where PlayStation was considered the hot new shit. Crash was received as another competent, cute mascot-style platformer, albeit the first of its kind for the booming PlayStation userbase, so naturally it became a smash hit.

SM64 on the other hand was seen as a legit vision of the future pushing the boundaries of what was possible conceptually and technically. People were and still are falling over themselves to praise it.

If you were in your teens at the time, Crash probably seemed cool and Mario kiddy, but if you were in your 20s, they probably both seemed like they were made for children but Mario might still have gotten your attention because of its mechanical innovation.

Yeah I think this is a fair recap.

Sonic Adventure's music is god damned good man

 

[SpiceRacz]

Sonic Adventure's music is god damned good man

Good, but inconsistent.

 

[RetroAV]

Good, but inconsistent.

That can easily be said of most games, including Mario 64.

 

[The Wheel of Fortune]

I think it's good that we have stupid polls like this one --where the answer is incredibly obvious-- every once in a while. Just so we make sure that we haven't strayed away that much from normalcy and common sense as a forum.

 

[RetroAV]

Mario 64 is still regarded as one of the best 3D collectathon/platformers and for good reasons.

sonic adventure was a buggy mess and wasn’t even the best sonic adventure game (that goes to SA2 or preferably SA2: Battle)

I do agree with Omega32X that SA2 feels like a step back from SA1. The funny thing is that I didn't feel that way until I recently went back and re-played both!

I remember when I played SA1 that my only negatives aside from the polish/camera were the hub world/NPC's. At the time, I just wanted to play the next level and the hub/worlds felt like too much downtime in between the action, especially if you didn't know where to go next. So when SA2 came out and did away with it, I immediately declared it better than SA1. And I remained in that same train of thought up until they both hit Steam.

I played through the Steam version of SA1 first and actually beat the game in 1 sitting and appreciated it way more than I had in the past. Then, I moved on to SA2 and...I don't know, it just felt like one glitchy, uncontrollable stage after another! I just remember I kept falling off the stages over and over and...I just couldn't beat it. The game felt more like Sonic ACTION, than Sonic ADVENTURE. The one thing I will give to SA2 over SA1 is the final boss theme. Live & Learn>Open Your Heart!

 

[SpiceRacz]

That can easily be said of most games, including Mario 64.

Wrong. Nothing is wasted in that game. Every song is great. Every level is creative and fun. Every star is meaningful. Each of Mario's moves are useful. It's a perfect game. And it doesn't have Big The Cat.

 

[Prof. Tivor Tontomo]

Crash is the only platformer in that poll, Mario was like an Action Adventure game with platforming on the side, but unlike those games added a bit more jumping. After that you run back and forth, collect the mcmuffins, where is the platforming?

I didn't know what Sonic was, compilation disc with Sonic characters in it? It clearly wasn't supposed to be one game I think. It's why nothing makes sense mechanically and bugs everywhere.

I didn't know why they call these games platformers. Tooie was even worse ran at 4 and 10 frames, made the Jaguar look like masterpiece with it's solid 30 frame games. Some times 60! Tooie you run around level collect attack enemy maybe occasionally press jump button.

 

[clem84]

The only thing SA has over M64 is the music. It has a stellar soundtrack. M64's music I would say is still pretty good.

Everything else goes to M64.

 

[carlosrox]

Sonic Adventure most likely has the better soundtrack.

But aside from that it's not even close to a fair comparison.

 

[RetroAV]

Wrong. Nothing is wasted in that game. Every song is great. Every level is creative and fun. Every star is meaningful. Each of Mario's moves are useful. It's a perfect game. And it doesn't have Big The Cat.

Yeah these are real bangers:

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

Wrong. Nothing is wasted in that game. Every song is great. Every level is creative and fun. Every star is meaningful. Each of Mario's moves are useful. It's a perfect game. And it doesn't have Big The Cat.

>Every song is great
not really, it's fine for a Mario game but it doesn't compare to SA1's soundtrack were every single song totally slaps, Mario had better soundtracks and even the best of the best doesn't compare to any of Sonic's bangers even in the "bad" or bad games

>Every level is creative and fun
tell that to Rainbow Ride or Tick Tock Clock, if you like waiting on carpets or being pushed down to the very bottom, then maybe.

>Every Star is meaningfull
jumping into icecubes, so much meaning there.



>Each of Mario's moves are usefull
such as breakdancing



im not saying Mario 64 is a bad game im just saying it's not as perfect as people say, and honestly it's overrated, still a great game but not one of the best of all time, you can call this cherrypicking but this can also apply to a lot if not most criticisms for Adventure.

 

[oagboghi2]

>Every song is great
not really, it's fine for a Mario game but it doesn't compare to SA1's soundtrack were every single song totally slaps, Mario had better soundtracks and even the best of the best doesn't compare to any of Sonic's bangers even in the "bad" or bad games

>Every level is creative and fun
tell that to Rainbow Ride or Tick Tock Clock, if you like waiting on carpets or being pushed down to the very bottom, then maybe.

>Every Star is meaningfull
jumping into icecubes, so much meaning there.



>Each of Mario's moves are usefull
such as breakdancing



im not saying Mario 64 is a bad game im just saying it's not as perfect as people say, and honestly it's overrated, still a great game but not one of the best of all time, you can call this cherrypicking but this can also apply to a lot if not most criticisms for Adventure.

Yes, you are cherry-picking, (breakdancing?) and the problems with Adventure are core to the game.

literally half of the game (Knuckles, Big, Amy) is garbage. Good music doesn’t negate that.