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Sonic Team desperately needs to reset continuity

M

Matlock

Banned
I remember the simple days, when it was just Sonic and Robotnik...

Then, came Tails (and to a lesser extent, the Archie comics crew) and it was alright.

Oh hey, it's Knuckles. And three poorly designed mascots with him in a spinoff ga--WAIT I'TS SOME AUSTRALIAN PURPLE THING.

Every game since the original Sonic has added at least one new character to the pool, with each getting increasingly awful after StH3.

Hell, for a while Knuckles is apparently the god of whatever island he's on and the guardian of all the chaos emeralds/gems whatever...but he has the time to run around and save the world from whatever comes along.

And now, Shadow, who started off as a palette swap for Sonic...is like 60 years old, related to Robotnik's (now Eggman) grandfather, and apparently the god of the universe because he has all the chaos gems...with various endings either having him being the guardian of a busted up Ark, outright murdering Robotnik, or just destroying Earth because he can.

As all the test shots of next-gen sonic have a very traditional look with only Sonic versus robots, I have faith...but jeez, it's at the point where I'm praying for a furry holocaust so the series can unfuck itself.
 
sonic team has poochy syndrome

poochy.gif
 
You know what Sonic Team needs to do? Make Sonic Rush 2 them-selves and make a new NiGHTs game. But I know it'll never happen. :(
 
demonix69 said:
They also need to cut the lame dialogue and cheesy music. Sonic needs to be completely revamped for next gen.
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First thing that needs to go is that six year old game engine.
 
jj984jj said:
You know what Sonic Team needs to do? Make Sonic Rush 2 them-selves and make a new NiGHTs game. But I know it'll never happen. :(
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I thought Sonic Team were quite involved in the making of the original Sonic Rush?
 
I want next gen sonic to be more like the old Sega CD opening (here) ....

With that old school sonic look and style, might work well with well done cel shading.
 
Knuckles is awesome. So is Tails. I don't mind the other characters playing bit parts, but I don't want to play as a floating bunny or a fishing cat.

I absolutely love Sonic. Sonic the Hedgehog was the first videogame that made me realize how great gaming is.

If the next-gen Sonic game has good music (Sonic Rush gives me hope), Traditional-style levels, and a knotch down on the 'tude, I'd be the happiest person ever.
 
You know, thinking a moment to compare the usage of Sonic and Mario franchises, I thought: why does Mario keep going so well, while Sonic is increasingly stretched thin?

I think one major reason is, indeed, that Nintendo follows KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid.

The characterizations of the Mario gang usually seems to remain simple and on-target. You always know what Mario, Luigi, or even bit players like the Hammer Bros. are going to be like. They play to the characters' classic strengths. When they do evolve them, they do so slowly and carefully. Even when the Mario world is expanded greatly, say, such as the Paper Mario games, there is still great care taken in detailing said world and making it compliment the characters.

I really wouldn't mind seeing a Sonic Reboot of some kind. God knows the characters could at least stand to be artistically re-done, especially to make them perhaps work better in 3D.
 
Kaijima said:
You know, thinking a moment to compare the usage of Sonic and Mario franchises, I thought: why does Mario keep going so well, while Sonic is increasingly stretched thin?

I think one major reason is, indeed, that Nintendo follows KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid.

The characterizations of the Mario gang usually seems to remain simple and on-target. You always know what Mario, Luigi, or even bit players like the Hammer Bros. are going to be like. They play to the characters' classic strengths. When they do evolve them, they do so slowly and carefully. Even when the Mario world is expanded greatly, say, such as the Paper Mario games, there is still great care taken in detailing said world and making it compliment the characters.
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Well that and they don't feel the need to use EVERY DAMN CHARACTER each time they make a game.
 
Matlock said:
As all the test shots of next-gen sonic have a very traditional look with only Sonic versus robots, I have faith...but jeez, it's at the point where I'm praying for a furry holocaust so the series can unfuck itself.
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Big the Cat says it's too late for that.

"FROGGY!"
 
Even Sonic is an annoying character now ever since they voiced him... liked him 1000x more when he kept his mouth shut.
 
Sonic's last chance for me on the consoles will be the next gen version. If Sonic Team fubs it again (which I'm betting they will), then even the raped-by-Universal Crash and Spyro licenses will rank higher than this broken franchise.

Bear in mind, handhelds are a different story. The GBA games were good, as was Rush in certain respects, but I'm hoping that Sega gives us a GnG/MMHX/MMPU style game on the PSP to take advantage of the widescreen. It would be so awesome to see a traditional style rendition of Sonic on the PSP (it'd look so gorgeous) and at the same time see Sega try something new and different with Sonic (and only Sonic) on the DS. Not sure what though, maybe something like Kirby?
 
Heian-kyo said:
Sonic's last chance for me on the consoles will be the next gen version. If Sonic Team fubs it again (which I'm betting they will), then even the raped-by-Universal Crash and Spyro licenses will rank higher than this broken franchise.

Bear in mind, handhelds are a different story. The GBA games were good, as was Rush in certain respects, but I'm hoping that Sega gives us a GnG/MMHX/MMPU style game on the PSP to take advantage of the widescreen. It would be so awesome to see a traditional style rendition of Sonic on the PSP (it'd look so gorgeous) and at the same time see Sega try something new and different with Sonic (and only Sonic) on the DS. Not sure what though, maybe something like Kirby?
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Sonic was good on the DS, and I don't think it needs to be altered (well, maybe less deathpits).
 
This thread reminds me that I need to go play Sonic Rush. My roomie has an ass of great DS games that he hasn't time to play, but I sure as hell do.

Sonic Adventure 1, I thought was OK but shallow. Sonic Adventure 2 is now my favorite of all Sonic games because of its meshing of different genres. It also made SA1 "unplayable" (for lack of a better term at the moment) to me and really spoiled me on playing 2D Sonics -- because Sonic's speed is better served by a camera that allows you to see ahead of yourself instead of the side-view. However, I did like what I played of Sonic Rush at E3 last year. (Shadow, not so much.)

Oh, and the games do not recognize any of the comics' story/characters/mythology for reasons I shouldn't even have to get into. :P
 
There was nothing wrong with Sonic Adventure, I thougth they evolved the series in a great fashion. Hell I even like Sonic running around the city with humans...it's after that and the stupid Chatoix, Cream, Blaze, and now new characters in Rush? WTF? Stop please.

Sonic, Amy, Tails, Knuckles, Big, and E102 were great...Rouge and Shadow I could have delt with as well, but now is just too many.

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are still some of the best Sonic games IMO.
 
Eh, I didn't think that Cream was that bad. Really, I wouldn't call Rouge, Shadow or Cream bad, or even average. Rouge and Shadow I could go without as playable characters, but I liked playing as Cream.
 
I don't think 2D Sonic is that bad. The music generally isn't as good as the original's, but the gameplay is still decent. 3D Sonic I can't play at all. Sonic Adventure 2 is one of the only 2 GCN games I traded in this generation. For the first time, I should have listened to IGN.
 
Biohazard said:
There was nothing wrong with Sonic Adventure, I thougth they evolved the series in a great fashion. Hell I even like Sonic running around the city with humans...it's after that and the stupid Chatoix, Cream, Blaze, and now new characters in Rush? WTF? Stop please.

Sonic, Amy, Tails, Knuckles, Big, and E102 were great...Rouge and Shadow I could have delt with as well, but now is just too many.

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are still some of the best Sonic games IMO.
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Big, great? :lol Now I think you're just trying to make SA look better. Cream was definitely better than Big - what redeeming quality did he even have?
 
Ok I guess I can deal with Cream as well, but having her mom thats just stupid. I also think that Sonic games in general usually have a better story than Mario games. Hell the story in SA1 and 2 were pretty damn good for Sonic games.
 
A Link to the Past said:
Cream was definitely better than Big - what redeeming quality did he even have?
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Wasn't his "adventure" a lot shorter (number of levels-wise) than everybody else's? That's gotta be worth something, right?
 
Biohazard said:
Ok I guess I can deal with Cream as well, but having her mom thats just stupid. I also think that Sonic games in general usually have a better story than Mario games. Hell the story in SA1 and 2 were pretty damn good for Sonic games.
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:lol I know the only reason I play Sonic or Mario is for their amazing stories
 
They've drilled in way too much of the whole 'attitude' thing into Sonic...so far they've gotten the focus on speed right; everything else seems to have been somewhat borrowed from other 3D platformers..
 
Biohazard said:
Ok I guess I can deal with Cream as well, but having her mom thats just stupid. I also think that Sonic games in general usually have a better story than Mario games. Hell the story in SA1 and 2 were pretty damn good for Sonic games.
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The only reason platformers should have stories is so you know why you go from point A to point B (and even that's debateable).
 
I would like to see a big continous world like Morrowind "Sonic-fied". The roads between towns could play out sorta like the old SA Sonic levels only you can go off track and explore the countryside.
 
JRPereira said:
All I want to know is why they made robotnik into some bumbling dufus named "eggman".
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Because the guys who localized the game for western markets back with Sonic the Hedgehog thought Dr. Robotnik would be better than his real name, Dr. Eggman.
 
Attack You said:
This thread reminds me that I need to go play Sonic Rush. My roomie has an ass of great DS games that he hasn't time to play, but I sure as hell do.

Sonic Adventure 1, I thought was OK but shallow. Sonic Adventure 2 is now my favorite of all Sonic games because of its meshing of different genres. It also made SA1 "unplayable" (for lack of a better term at the moment) to me and really spoiled me on playing 2D Sonics -- because Sonic's speed is better served by a camera that allows you to see ahead of yourself instead of the side-view. However, I did like what I played of Sonic Rush at E3 last year. (Shadow, not so much.)

Oh, and the games do not recognize any of the comics' story/characters/mythology for reasons I shouldn't even have to get into. :P
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...Really?

Dr. Kitty Muffins said:
I would like to see a big continous world like Morrowind "Sonic-fied". The roads between towns could play out sorta like the old SA Sonic levels only you can go off track and explore the countryside.
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YES. This is what I picture ofr next-gen.
 
AdmiralViscen said:
...Really?



YES. This is what I picture ofr next-gen.
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I think Mario should go in that direction too. Big GTA3 style sand box towns and Morrowind style continous worlds connecting them. Slap a Mario theme on it all and call it a day.
 
AdmiralViscen said:
...Really?
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Yep. I sympathize with people for being pissy about its meshing of genres, though. It was very frustrating for a few people I knew to get all A's in the game because they were experts at one genre/playtype, but not another. My best friend couldn't ace the Sonic/Shadow missions to save his life, but he could do the kart stages in his sleep since he was always loved racers. Exact opposite for my girlfriend, who hates racers.

Me, however... I'm a gamer of variety, and didn't get stonewalled like others. Hell, even after I spent over 100 hours getting all the emblems in the DC version of SA2, I spent another 25 hours getting all A's in the GC version. It makes me sad that we'll probably never see another game like that in the series because of all the complaints.
 
I think Mario should go in that direction too. Big GTA3 style sand box towns and Morrowind style continous worlds connecting them. Slap a Mario theme on it all and call it a day.
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Pesonally, I'd prefer if Mario went back to linear and tight platforming levels. Nintendo has Zelda and Metroid to do adventurish stuff with. Keep Mario a platformer.. there's not enough of those anymore.
 
I don't think fatass Mario fits the giant world style the way fast Sonic does.

Attack You said:
Yep. I sympathize with people for being pissy about its meshing of genres, though. It was very frustrating for a few people I knew to get all A's in the game because they were experts at one genre/playtype, but not another. My best friend couldn't ace the Sonic/Shadow missions to save his life, but he could do the kart stages in his sleep since he was always loved racers. Exact opposite for my girlfriend, who hates racers.

Me, however... I'm a gamer of variety, and didn't get stonewalled like others. Hell, even after I spent over 100 hours getting all the emblems in the DC version of SA2, I spent another 25 hours getting all A's in the GC version. It makes me sad that we'll probably never see another game like that in the series because of all the complaints.
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You thought gem hunting and laser-robot-blasting were fleshed-out gameplay elements? I like variety too, but Sonic Team didn't put any effort into the secondary gametypes. They added characters and modes just to say they had the most characters and modes, not to enhance the package.
 
AdmiralViscen said:
You thought gem hunting and laser-robot-blasting were fleshed-out gameplay elements? I like variety too, but Sonic Team didn't put any effort into the secondary gametypes. They added characters and modes just to say they had the most characters and modes, not to enhance the package.
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Do I think they were fleshed out? No. Did I enjoy them for what they were? Yes.

Tails/Eggman levels were no Panzer Dragoon, but there was obvious thought put into enemy placement for the sake of points and grading. That's more than most popular platformers give a shit about these days, it seems.

The treasure hunting really came together for me once I learned how to zip around to all the likely treasure hiding spots on a stage in a matter of seconds. A lot of people don't make it that far, and rely on the often unhelpful hint system even after they've played a great deal of the game. If I was still reliant upon the hints for my A's, I'd have a lot less favourable opinion of the treasure hunting, too.

Now, Team Chaotix from Sonic Heroes... That is the very definition of tacked-on gameplay addition.
 
I always thought people disliked Sonic Adventure 2 because it had the single worst camera ever implemented in a 3D platform game. Seriously, that shit was so broken it wasn't even funny.
 
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