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[ShockingAlberto]

Then I'm going to go ahead and say the Sonic franchise isn't for you. If you honestly do not like Sonic 2, Sonic 3, or Sonic CD - games which I think many people agree are much better, much more focused games than Sonic 1, then this sort of game just isn't your cup of tea.

I will, however, be the first to admit that the 3D games focus way, way too hard on making Sonic go fast and nothing else. The main problem, is something me and a friend have discussed; 3D Sonic games seem to divide characters up in to "classes". Sonic is generally considered a speed-only character, Knuckles is considered an exploration-only character, Tails is considered a platforming-only character, Shadow is focused much more on enemy combat... so on and so forth.

This is in stark contrast to the old games, which provided a balance of all these elements no matter who you were playing as. Rather than sit through a 15 minute level playing exclusively as a "speed class" character, there were parts where you ran super fast, and there were parts where you slowed down to do some platforming, and there were parts where you could explore if the mood struck you. Can you imagine a level like this recreated in 3D? Most games don't have anywhere even close to a level of that intricacy, let alone today's Sonic games.

And I ask: Why the hell not? Why does Sonic have to be a "speed class" character? Sonic can still go fast while having balanced gameplay that incorporates both platforming and exploration. That was something the original franchise was founded upon; I think Sonic 1 on the Genesis was the first game I ever played where there were alternate routes to reach the goal, and that was something the old games thrived with.

Speed's great and all, but variety is better.

I think it comes down to issues of talent and effort. It's in no way impossible to do all these things in one level with one character. They're just bad at it.

Look at Sonic Heroes for example, taking a team as a single unit and not as three individual characters. They tried to do the balancing act, but they did it with no finesse. There were points in every level where you had to switch to the character that can go through it. Not "would be best suited" or "is an option", but there may as well have been huge signs that said "HEY THIS PART NEEDS PLATFORMING SWITCH TO TAILS". Rather than take that opportunity to offer multiple paths or multiple ways of doing things, they're essentially just puzzles to see if you can recognize which character goes to which situation.

Using the Carnival Zone map you posted, you can see where some areas reward you for speed and another totally valid option is to take it slow and just make your way to the next area. Sonic Heroes, and to a greater extent, Sonic Adventure titles, didn't have that. You could occasionally find shit by slowing down, but that's not really fun game exploration as it is totally developers cheating.

 

[Cynar]

I have to agree with Ragnarokx here. It's going to be a shame once it's released and everyone realizes another sonic game sucks.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Um, actually...

Sonic Heroes does have signs that tell you "HEY, USE TAILS HERE."

 

[Tiduz]

I have to agree with Ragnarokx here. It's going to be a shame once it's released and everyone realizes another sonic game sucks.

OR

The game will be awesome and everyone saying it wont be looks like a fool.

Personally i hope for that, just to shut some people up :lol

 

[[Nintex]]

If you don't want rock at all, you're in for a disappointment. But out of the two tracks we've heard so far, one is a sort of jazzy ethnic African rock, and the other is peppy Eurorock with a violin as its lead instrument. Neither of them sound like Senoue's style, so we're safe on that front.

Noo, I want a "UNLEASH ME!" theme song from Crush 40

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Um, actually...

Sonic Heroes does have signs that tell you "HEY, USE TAILS HERE."

Goes to show how much of this game I blocked out.

Point still stands about lack of finesse, though.

 

[autobzooty]

A lot of people were complaining that the game looks too fast...

Whoever was demoing it seemed to be using that speed boost mechanic (from Sonic Rush) almost constantly. If you look at the first trailer, it's not nearly as fast.

 

[gwiz210]

Some thoughts,

-Sonic's model works well with the environment hes speeding through. It worked well in the Sonic Adventure games, they perfected it, imo, in Sonic Heroes and, in Sonic 2006, I thought he and his furry friends didn't work well with the gaming environment at all.

-The speed and transitions from 3D to 2D and vice versa look great so far. I like how they're keeping the speed established in the Sonic Advance games and in the Sonic Rush games.

-The rail grinding looks like a lot of fun, even if it is on-rails and limited, it looks great and is fun to watch

-The overall feeling Sonic and the world around him gives off via the graphics and music is the happy-go-lucky feeling Sonic should have. Its something they lost in recent games.

-The music sounds like some of Jun Seuone's earlier work. It still has his crazy guitar loops but this works well, if the entire soundtrack is like this then it'll be great. I will be the first to admit I want another crazy hard-rocking Crush 40 song for a main theme though.

 

[EDarkness]

This game worries me. On the surface it looks great, but I keep wondering what kind of game it's going to be since we don't see much game. On top of that, we still haven't seen the Wii version and whenever that happens, we know that version will be crap. At this point, I don't have any excitement. Based on past Sonic outings, we should all lower our expectations on this one.

 

[yoopoo]

Wii version is suppose to be in the next Nintendo Power, hope its like Sonic Rush DS with hints of Secret Rings here and there.

Can't believe NOM UK did a cover story for the 360/PS3 version :lol

 

[Teknoman]

This game worries me. On the surface it looks great, but I keep wondering what kind of game it's going to be since we don't see much game. On top of that, we still haven't seen the Wii version and whenever that happens, we know that version will be crap. At this point, I don't have any excitement. Based on past Sonic outings, we should all lower our expectations on this one.

Expect Sonic Rush gameplay on a home console. Anyway some of the "autopilot" parts look similar to the stuff on the jungle stages in SA2. Though I do hope they music leans more towards the first Sonic Adventure game. That was the closest mix between old school and new style Sonic music.

 

[batbeg]

Okay, so I've watched the trailer a couple more times and I feel better about it now. Complaints about it being on rails seem completely unfounded as I see lots of places you can cut to another path, though how well they work... who knows. I don't like the damn boost from Rush being in there, it annoys me you can just fly through enemies, and it probably means the stupid tricks will be back, but that's a minor complain I suppose.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

That looks really fun.

 

[Ranger X]

This looks promising.
It's like they are starting to get what could make Sonic great. There's even parts that looks like a 2.5D Sonic game!!! awesome.

 

[Teknoman]

This looks promising.
It's like they are starting to get what could make Sonic great. There's even parts that looks like a 2.5D Sonic game!!! awesome.

Most of the game is supposed to be 2.5D but they got a little happen with the Sonic Secret Rings esque sections...which actually were in Sonic Rush Adventure too (that Ghost Condor boss battle).

 

[HUELEN10]

Most of the game is supposed to be 2.5D but they got a little happen with the Sonic Secret Rings esque sections...which actually were in Sonic Rush Adventure too (that Ghost Condor boss battle).

One of my favorite bosses in Sonic History. So fun!

 

[ChackanKun]

Make it "Sonic Adventures" good, please :|

 

[marc^o^]

Too much scenery effects, not enough control of what is going on for my tastes.
I hated the wii version and just barely liked Sonic Rush. So please don't care about what I said Sonic fans.

 

[Ranger X]

Most of the game is supposed to be 2.5D but they got a little happen with the Sonic Secret Rings esque sections...which actually were in Sonic Rush Adventure too (that Ghost Condor boss battle).

Sweet.
Might just end up being the first 3D Sonic worth my money!

 

[Kittonwy]

Visually it's good rooking but in the back of my mind methinks Sonic fans are always hoping this game is going to be the one and it never materializes.

 

[HUELEN10]

The way I see it, there are 2 main forms of Sonic Gameplay. Momentum based gameplay from the original game, and Speed based gameplay that debuted in Sonic Advance 2, NOT Rush. This game is obviously catering to the latter group, which I happen to be fine with. I like the Speed based gameplay as much, if not MORE than the momentum based model. It is not hold right all the time, though Sonic Advance 2 really made it feel that way for a bit.

 

[Teknoman]

One of my favorite bosses in Sonic History. So fun!

Yeah that was pretty nice, thats why im not too down about Unleashed. Also remember the Carnival, Egyptian (cant remember those zone names) and Huge Crisis from Sonic Rush 1? Those had quite alot of platforming - slow down moments.

Sonic 3 had quite a few speed through moments. Like Hydropolis? You could blast through that level. Actually Sonic 2's Emerald Hill Zone you could speed through as well. Hit a ramp in the right way and you could practically fly to the end.

 

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Levels look boring as fuck.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

I hopefully it's 2.5D Sonic with a dash of 'Sonic Adventure 1 Orca pre-scripted' scenes would be awesome to be honest.

As long as you at least have the option in 2.5D view to slow down and look around like you did in Sonic 1/2/3/S&K/CD

 

[RagnarokX]

Yeah that was pretty nice, thats why im not too down about Unleashed. Also remember the Carnival, Egyptian (cant remember those zone names) and Huge Crisis from Sonic Rush 1? Those had quite alot of platforming - slow down moments.

Sonic 3 had quite a few speed through moments. Like Hydropolis? You could blast through that level. Actually Sonic 2's Emerald Hill Zone you could speed through as well. Hit a ramp in the right way and you could practically fly to the end.

I posted videos of several genesis levels on page 2; Hydrocity was one of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioszlM-aaIo

It features pretty much the least platforming in Sonic 3 (if you were good at the level and avoided the water), yet it still has it in adequate supply.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I still want a clear confirmation that Sonic's handling is not on rails the way it is in Sonic and the Secret Rings in which you cna only speed your character up or slow your character down and move left and right (and jump) basically... I want full control... .

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I still want a clear confirmation that Sonic's handling is not on rails the way it is in Sonic and the Secret Rings in which you cna only speed your character up or slow your character down and move left and right (and jump) basically... I want full control... .

Full control a good Sonic game does not make.

Simply put, the two don't mix well usually.

 

[Burli]

I posted videos of several genesis levels on page 2; Hydrocity was one of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioszlM-aaIo

It features pretty much the least platforming in Sonic 3 (if you were good at the level and avoided the water), yet it still has it in adequate supply.

Honestly, did the original music composers for genesis sonic games all die in a horrible accident? The music used to be so consistent and brilliant.

 

[RagnarokX]

Honestly, did the original music composers for genesis sonic games all die in a horrible accident? The music used to be so consistent and brilliant.

Sonic 1 and 2 music was by Dreams Come True, a Japanese band. Sonic 3's music was by Michael Jackson's sound team.

 

[DiddyBop]

music is awesome,and the graphics in those screen look great and it also looks great in motion,but i havent played a sonic game since the genesis days,and dont plan on playing this either unless it gets fuck awesome reviews.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Wii version is suppose to be in the next Nintendo Power, hope its like Sonic Rush DS with hints of Secret Rings here and there.

Can't believe NOM UK did a cover story for the 360/PS3 version :lol

Really? Where did you read that it will be in the next issue? Which should be in mailboxes in a few days easily!

 

[yoopoo]

Really? Where did you read that it will be in the next issue? Which should be in mailboxes in a few days easily!

IGN Matt from their last podcast. NP has the exclusive, IGN will put out vids after the mag is out.

 

[hokahey]

It seems odd to have this cartoonish blue hedgehog flying around in a super realistic looking world.

 

[Blueblur1]

The flaws in recent Sonic game come from the early game design stage. As Sega1991 said, splitting characters into "classes," developing a overly complicated plot and splitting it into pieces and using a game engine that doesn't serve the game play properly. (I'm referring to the physics and such of the Genesis series as opposed to the last few games' habit of making you watch the game play itself for bits and pieces.)

If those issues are apparent to the development team at the design stage then any Sonic game (or any issues for any game for that matter) is doomed to suffer. I'm enjoying the discussion and speculation here but nothing will be apparent until media outlets get their hands on the game and more footage becomes publicly available.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Sonic 1 and 2 music was by Dreams Come True, a Japanese band. Sonic 3's music was by Michael Jackson's sound team.

Close.

The OST for Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 were done by Masato Nakamura, the Bass Guitarist for Dreams Come True. As I've heard it Masato likes to demand steep royalties for use of the music he made for them, which is why from Sonic 3 onwards, different theme songs were used in most Sonic games (either that or Sega's just too cheap to pay the guy, since SOME Sonic games HAVE re-used his music, and they're usually spinoffs outsourced to Non-Sega companies like Dimps).

Sonic 3's OST was a joint effort between a lot of people. I believe Howard Drossin did the bulk of it, with a couple of tracks being composed by Jun Senoue. Members of Michael Jackson's team did work on the Sonic 3 OST, and as it's been mentioned many times, a number of Sonic 3 songs bare resemblance to popular MJ songs, but as far as I know, the number of songs they did was around the 4-5 range (and when you consider the game's full OST is something like 45 tracks, that's not a lot).

Sonic CD's Japanese OST was done by Naofumi Hataya, who is still kicking around; he works at WaveMaster, a sound production studio for Sega. He did music for Sonic Heroes, for example (Ocean Palace being one of his compositions, I believe), and he did a few tracks for NiGHTS on the Wii.

Richard Jacques did the OST for Sonic 3D Blast (both the Genesis and Saturn versions), and Sonic R. Most recently, he returned to do some music for Sega SuperStars Tennis, I believe.

Most newer Sonic music today is handled by Tomoya Ohtani (SA2, Chu Chu Rocket, Space Channel 5), Fumie Kumatani (NiGHTS 1, Burning Rangers, SA1, SA2, PSO), Mariko Nanba (Knuckles Chaotix, Skies of Arcadia, Sonic 2k6), and Jun Senoue, though Jun (and Crush 40)'s involvement seems to shrink with each new game.

 

[Blueblur1]

Most newer Sonic music today is handled by Tomoya Ohtani (SA2, Chu Chu Rocket, Space Channel 5), Fumie Kumatani (NiGHTS 1, Burning Rangers, SA1, SA2, PSO), Mariko Nanba (Knuckles Chaotix, Skies of Arcadia, Sonic 2k6), and Jun Senoue, though Jun (and Crush 40)'s involvement seems to shrink with each new game.

Tomoya Ohtani and Mariko Nanba most recently produced music for Sonic Rush Adventure - well, I may be wrong on the most recently part.

 

[RagnarokX]

Close.

The OST for Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 were done by Masato Nakamura, the Bass Guitarist for Dreams Come True. As I've heard it Masato likes to demand steep royalties for use of the music he made for them, which is why from Sonic 3 onwards, different theme songs were used in most Sonic games (either that or Sega's just too cheap to pay the guy, since SOME Sonic games HAVE re-used his music, and they're usually spinoffs outsourced to Non-Sega companies like Dimps).

Sonic 3's OST was a joint effort between a lot of people. I believe Howard Drossin did the bulk of it, with a couple of tracks being composed by Jun Senoue. Members of Michael Jackson's team did work on the Sonic 3 OST, and as it's been mentioned many times, a number of Sonic 3 songs bare resemblance to popular MJ songs, but as far as I know, the number of songs they did was around the 4-5 range (and when you consider the game's full OST is something like 45 tracks, that's not a lot).

Sonic CD's Japanese OST was done by Naofumi Hataya, who is still kicking around; he works at WaveMaster, a sound production studio for Sega. He did music for Sonic Heroes, for example (Ocean Palace being one of his compositions, I believe), and he did a few tracks for NiGHTS on the Wii.

Richard Jacques did the OST for Sonic 3D Blast (both the Genesis and Saturn versions), and Sonic R. Most recently, he returned to do some music for Sega SuperStars Tennis, I believe.

Most newer Sonic music today is handled by Tomoya Ohtani (SA2, Chu Chu Rocket, Space Channel 5), Fumie Kumatani (NiGHTS 1, Burning Rangers, SA1, SA2, PSO), Mariko Nanba (Knuckles Chaotix, Skies of Arcadia, Sonic 2k6), and Jun Senoue, though Jun (and Crush 40)'s involvement seems to shrink with each new game.

Right, and some Sonic 1 and 2 pieces were used in Dream Come True songs. I was surprised that Sweet Dream got remixed for Sonic 06, but they ruined it with that Akon Mix. The original was much better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUsT7qY7RW8

If only Sega would get him to make the soundtracks again

 

[Sciz]

The OST for Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 were done by Masato Nakamura, the Bass Guitarist for Dreams Come True. As I've heard it Masato likes to demand steep royalties for use of the music he made for them, which is why from Sonic 3 onwards, different theme songs were used in most Sonic games (either that or Sega's just too cheap to pay the guy, since SOME Sonic games HAVE re-used his music, and they're usually spinoffs outsourced to Non-Sega companies like Dimps).

I'm inclined to believe that Sega has the rights to those soundtracks these days, whether it's a loose license or full ownership. Those tunes have been showing up in games more and more since the start of the decade.

Sonic 3's OST was a joint effort between a lot of people. I believe Howard Drossin did the bulk of it, with a couple of tracks being composed by Jun Senoue. Members of Michael Jackson's team did work on the Sonic 3 OST, and as it's been mentioned many times, a number of Sonic 3 songs bare resemblance to popular MJ songs, but as far as I know, the number of songs they did was around the 4-5 range (and when you consider the game's full OST is something like 45 tracks, that's not a lot).

S3&K's soundtrack is ridiculously convoluted, to put it nicely. Jackson's six guys are credited in S3, just Drossin in S&K, and then a "SEGA Sound Team" of eight guys (Senoue included) credited in both. I'd love to see track-by-track credits, but I doubt even Sega could come up with an accurate list.

As for the rest, I'll just say that I kind of have a topic about this subject, which is entirely accurate to the best of my knowledge. </shamelessselfpromotion>

 

[The Hermit]

Wanted to say this since yesterday (but I coudn´t ...) but the gameplay is TOO similar to Sonic and the Secret Rings. The Wii game was kinda meh, but it had some sparks of great ideas. This might work, but again, its Sonic we´re talking about.

 

[FightyF]

Full control a good Sonic game does not make.

Simply put, the two don't mix well usually.

I disagree, I think you can have both, easily. You just need to create a suitable control scheme. I'll write up a long post on what the ideal 3D Sonic game should be like. It's gonna take a while though...

Howard Drossin's one of my all time favourite composers. His work on Sonic 3, Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic Spinball, The Ooze, all good stuff.

 

[Firestorm]

Full control a good Sonic game does not make.

Simply put, the two don't mix well usually.

The best Sonic games gave you full control over Sonic.

You know, I think the current team should just YouTube some old Sonic videos and look at the speed he goes in and the speed he's going at now. Sonic being so damn fast is the root of most problems with current Sonic games. I don't know why people think making him even faster is going to fix things.

 

[Christopher]

Are people really getting excited again :lol

I'm pretty much done with Sonic - and I was a HUGE Sonic fan.

Sonic Adventure 1, Sonic Adventure 2, and Sonic Adventure 3 (Sonic the Hedgehog - it really was Soinc Adventur 3) just finished it off for me, and I've grown tired of playing subpar games past Sonic Adventure 2.

:lol Since Sonic Heroes they kept with this "back to form!" shit and you guys beileve it ...everytime.

This game looks like the graphics of Soinic 2k6 mixed with the shit shit gameplay of Sonic and the Secret Rings...DO NOT WANT at all.

If the reviews are good, I'll give it a rent, but that's about it.

 

[Firestorm]

Actually, the biggest doubters seem to have Sonic avatars.
I had a Sonic avatar before too!

 

[Blueblur1]

The best Sonic games gave you full control over Sonic.

You know, I think the current team should just YouTube some old Sonic videos and look at the speed he goes in and the speed he's going at now. Sonic being so damn fast is the root of most problems with current Sonic games. I don't know why people think making him even faster is going to fix things.

The huge emphasis on speed and more speed is actually a huge problem.

 

[Teknoman]

Wanted to say this since yesterday (but I coudn´t ...) but the gameplay is TOO similar to Sonic and the Secret Rings. The Wii game was kinda meh, but it had some sparks of great ideas. This might work, but again, its Sonic we´re talking about.

Dont worry, there are only a few sections that are like Secret Rings / Sonic Rush Adventure's Ghost Condor battle.

Though I do hope they copy Sonic Rush series boss arena style. Those were pretty nice. Also I could imagine some kick ass two phase boss battles where one part is tradition head bopping, and the second you have to chase em down, or run away from them with those button cues (think the Contra Hard Corps freeway 1st boss battle).


Also its like people are blind to the 2.5D gameplay shown and just zero in on the behind the back camera moments. The game looks like 80% Rush 20% Secret Rings, and the Secret Rings / SRA style behind the back moments dont even rely on any timed jumps, just button cues and you manually moving from side to side.

It seems odd to have this cartoonish blue hedgehog flying around in a super realistic looking world.

Didnt seem odd in Sonic Adventure 1 :lol

Emerald Coast and Lost World ftw.

EDIT: What happened to Sonic World Adventure trademark?

 

[Sciz]

Howard Drossin's one of my all time favourite composers. His work on Sonic 3, Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic Spinball, The Ooze, all good stuff.

Drossin didn't touch Chaotix.

 

[Teknoman]

And the graphics are much better than Sonic 06. Sonic 06 had some nice character models, but the environments werent really all that. Besides its a whole new engine.

 

[FightyF]

Actually, the biggest doubters seem to have Sonic avatars.
I had a Sonic avatar before too!

Well, I'm changing mine to Sonic...to what he should look like in 3D, IMO.

Drossin didn't touch Chaotix.

I've read different things, I'm not sure what to believe...but it to me it's not a stretch considering that he was one of the guys very familiar with SEGA's sound technologies and hardware, and KC was made States-side, am I right?

 

[RagnarokX]

Actually, the biggest doubters seem to have Sonic avatars.
I had a Sonic avatar before too!

Of course we do. I LOVE the Genesis Sonic games. I played them over and over. I just feel let down that Sega hasn't made a game of Sonic 3 & Knuckles quality in 14 years. It doesn't look like it would be very hard to repeat the winning formula; it's frustrating.

I don't want Sonic games to fail. I want to see a return to glory. I would love for this game to do that, but based on the trailers it won't. Yes, it could be fun; Sonic Rush and the Advance games were fun. But they just don't hold a candle to what was accomplished on the Genesis.

 

[Sciz]

I've read different things, I'm not sure what to believe...but it to me it's not a stretch considering that he was one of the guys very familiar with SEGA's sound technologies and hardware, and KC was made States-side, am I right?

The credits really don't support that line of thinking.