Chris Metal
Member
The Amiga 500 is up there as being the greatest ever gaming machine.
All hail the Amiga.
Memories...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7FtJdBcp88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvSfqBJi0ss
-
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Sony announces 18.5 million PlayStation 4 consoles sold WW
- Thread starter Krakn3Dfx
- Start date
Memories...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7FtJdBcp88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvSfqBJi0ss
Short and blunt answer? It can get you banned if you're under a certain age....
serversurfer
Member
Oh, my bad. I don't really think Sony were being stingy, any more than I think PS4 has no games. I was just poking fun at public perception, and GAF's claims thereof.
Yes, exactly. I was just saying that Sony had no need to cut their prices in 2014, and that's a Good Thing. Now, it's also possible they were unable to afford to do so, but fortunately, that wasn't particularly relevant.
Hopefully, Bish's source isn't Greenberg.
That said, If they'd just finished shipping 10M on Dec. 3rd, and were already at 8.5M sold through at the same time, I would think they would have trouble maintaining stock throughout the holiday, but we're getting indications they're overstocked, even in the US. And surely they're overstocked in Europe and Asia… Anyway, I guess we'll see — or more likely, we won't, I guess — but to me, that answer sounds like an off the cuff, "Should be $SHIPPED - 1.5M, give or take," rather than an actual estimate of their sell-through. Or as Greenberg would say, "I don't have the actual numbers in front of me, but I'm confident that…"
Sure, I'm expecting/hoping for a $100 cut. I think that has a nice psychological impact on buyers, and if they couple it with the Morpheus launch, it gives those interested in VR a rationale for lopping $100 off its price in their heads. Yesterday, $400 got you a PS4, but today $500 gets you a PS with virtual reality.
Earlier, someone was arguing they should only cut the price $50, so they could then swoop in and collect all of the fence-sitters with another $50 discount/sale come the holidays, but that strikes me as circular reasoning. Basically, it's arguing to create a group of fence-sitters just so you can harvest them later. Seems like it would be better to get those folks on board right away, so they can start buying games and telling their friends they should totally buy one too especially since it's so cheap now. Plus, I think that slowly chipping away at the price gives the impression that they're milking their customers for every nickel they're worth. "Okay, okay, $50 off. Still not enough?? Fine, another $50."
Of course, I'm not privy to Sony's financials, so I really have no idea if they're in a position to make a $100 cut on the hardware, and if they're not, then I do not think they should go ahead with it. That said, they said the hardware was already turning a profit in all regions by May, and Cerny said the system was designed to take advantage of rapid cost reductions. If a $100 cut takes them back to the "slight profit or loss with the initial sale" state they were at for launch, then I think that would be acceptable.
Fair enough, and I'm inclined to agree. It sounded like you were saying that since NPD/GfK are sacrosanct, we should disregard any other sources of information. Sorry if I misread you. <3
Hear hear.
My brother. <3Maybe you could just add something like this I just whipped up. I think you know where I got the look from
/applaud
Not surprising; J Allard was the one who created the Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish strategy for MS. (He called it something else though.)
Actually, I've long thought that the Banned tag should link back to the offending post.
Recently, someone told me that not wanting to deal with MS because of forced parity was "childish." </3
Do it. Then marvel at the fact the amazing OS you're using is going on 30 years old. Then shake an angry fist towards Redmond for me.
Dude, that's the post I've wanted to write about MS for ages.
yurinka
Member
Lol at people expecting a $100 cut from Sony. Why would they do it if they are selling way more than they expected?
Wiith the game line up ready for 2015 they will continue selling a ton of units, they don't need it and it would mean to stop getting profit per unit sold as they have now and as Sony as a whole needs because other than games and other divisions they are seriously fucked economically.
Wiith the game line up ready for 2015 they will continue selling a ton of units, they don't need it and it would mean to stop getting profit per unit sold as they have now and as Sony as a whole needs because other than games and other divisions they are seriously fucked economically.
I'm just saying, what kind of nonsense question is that?
If people like you & him are going to start bashing me & not contribute, then don't bother replying.
The Artisan
Member
Okay Shabad. I am marking your words. I don't know when Microsoft will reveal their next sales figures, but we'll see how far they've come from the 3 million they've announced on the last day of 2013.
in other words, it is impossible.
?
I guess, not anymore.
Well yes I can accept it. I suppose I should be happy since the console I chose and the platform of choice since I was a little kid, is leading the 8th gen.
Also, you didn't answer my previous question. Are you the same Piggus from gtagaming?
Well I guess I should not be saying it anymore.
Go ahead. I wouldn't have chosen that picture as my avatar if I didn't like it.
Well, the xbone did release in china first, right?
I like the guy's acting. Especially in that episode.
-_-
That's been made perfectly clear.
OK. Well I pretty much give up.
very funny.
and this gif has been used on me twice now
So at most they've sold at this point.... 11-12 million? or is that still pushing it?
no i didn't. but what is somewhat surprising to me is that someone remembered I mad that thread.
I guess so. But I'm
relatively
My Ps4's still here.
good one.
for the record, I have no idea what japan and china's relationship is right now. but I know a fob Chinese kid who bought a Ps4 last semester. so yes, the Ps4 will probably have a chance of succeeding in china.
well, glad you got a kick out of it.
relax. i've had enough people hand my ass to me that there's nothing else I can really say now.
I guess not, no. Not anymore.
I wasn't trolling.
No, I cannot. OK? You got me.
Well, here I am. But after what everyone's said to me, I don't know how anyone can expect me to be full of hope now.Seriously, he was the highlight of this thread for two straight days. We need him back. I even threw this for him, to remind us to never give up on our darkest hours.
Apologies for the poor quality. It's 4AM here and this was the best I could do.
Anyways, I've done my best not to be rude to anyone. I am still getting used to neogaf so I hope I haven't done anything to merit a ban. Also, someone wanna tell me what this bish check is?
Codeblew
Member
Followed by the Apple IIe and the Atari 400 (Mc'Donalds keyboard FTW).
AmaterasuOni
Banned
It's when you state something as a fact, like "PS4 has sold 13 million in Brazil in December, I know this because I work at Jose's Hardware and Cheese Shop". That is when Bish wants to see some hard evidence to back up your claims or else you'll get banned.
You were kinda in the grey area with your numbers and optimism: you claimed something untrue to be true and had no evidence to back this up.
Poimandres
Member
Hey Artisan, I just want to applaud you for doing a great job of responding to people and being an all round good sport in this thread!
Neuromancer
Member
Artisan, you've been through the crucible and you didn't get banned so you're doing ok in my book.
Was created a couple pages back. Short version, people who claim to be sales insiders are vetted before they can impart their wisdom, lest it be wisdom from their arse. Looks like it might be used to tag those who are vetted.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
I think dude's on a warpath lol.
TLDR version: Sony and Nintendo might not be choirboys, but MS is an entirely different level of Bullshit, both provably and repeatedly across their history. You can be a fan if you want, but you should at least know what you are talking about.
What follows is merely my opinion, one formed over more than 30 years in the field of IT, Multimedia, Audiovisual ... and Gaming.
Sony and Nintendo, along with pretty much 90% of the corporations out there, are just that. Corporations that care about their shareholders and Execs looking out to get maximum compensations. In these, you have sometimes some inviduals that stand out, either because they are extremely charismatic, and /or they actually "genuinely" do care about their work and their customers. Or at least they seem that way.
Microsoft, to me, is along with a select few others (Monsanto, ConAgra and Exxon being others) a true cancer in their field. I despise them as a corporation, a virtual entity if you will, and I really think that everything they have done has been for the worsening of their environment. They have had repeatedly backward attitudes toward technology in general, spiteful behavior toward their competititors and downright shameful disdain or even contempt for their customers and their rights whenever they thought they could get away with it.
Honestly, hate is far too strong a word for what I feel toward what is actually yet another corporation in a world of "money first" entities, but I actually, truly believe that Microsoft is a quasi-disease in not only gaming but IT and technology in general, and pretty much everything they touch.
One of their very core philosophy, which they used to throw around in private meetings (dixit an IBM insider during a major lawsuit againt MS), says everything you need to know about them (again, as a corporate entity, I am not talking about any one individual in particular):
Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish. We're talking about Standards and competition here.
I find Microsoft's behavior to be despicable in general, both toward their competitors (they push the envelop on ruthless thanks to near infinite levels of cash in reserves) and their customers (you only have to see what they thought they could get away with the XB1 when they designed it, but that is merely an example, and a minor one).
Before someone come out and inevitably says "you only feel that way because you are a Sony fanboy", let me just explain that in the end I am primarily a PC gamer (irony !), and second a PS3/ PS4 owner. I have never owned a PS2 (I had a PC only ellitist attitude back then). Never owned a PSP or Vita (nothing against them), and I have actually had those thoughts about MS a long time before even getting a PS3 or PS4. It probably dates all the way back to learning MS DOS 3.x while trying to make my PC board work on my good old Amiga 2000, and reading what I could find about the beginnings of Microsoft.
It's just so amazing that a company like this has never really tried to change for the better. It actually only got worse over time I think. Not sure why.
You think sony (CD Rootkit/ prioritary formats like Memory stick...) and Nintendo have done shady shit? you need to read more about Microsoft's history. It's borderline terrifying, from the bullshit around IBM picking MS DOS, to the Xbox One anti consumer BS, going through the Browser war shit, the Media Player shit (ask Apple with Quicktime), the RAM shit (640kb is all that's needed right?), the anti competition shit that got them sued repeatedly in Europe AND the US, IBM pushed out of the OS business (OS/2) among other casualties through massive FUD campaigns, not counting using its soon aborted Winfows Live platform and the awful windows Vista to actually try to push people towards Xbox to "dominate the living room", etc. etc. Ad Nauseam.
Ask me: Do I think Microsoft -ever- did anything good for their industry? In their entire history?
I will anser: Yes. One thing. Contextual Right Click in a mass market Graphic User Interface. And frankly they got that from ... Steve jobs's NEXTSTEP, who himself was "inspired" by the geniuses over at Xerox.
/rant over
Fake PS: Yes, I do feel better now.
Sums up Microsoft well.
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
You upset the group.
This is Artisan, and it explains why he's so chill
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Zqhluwgvi...AAC_Q/9_2NNyy5bRE/s1600/Bd5S5NAIgAEU_VE-1.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Zqhluwgvi...AAC_Q/9_2NNyy5bRE/s1600/Bd5S5NAIgAEU_VE-1.jpg
googleplex
Member
Pathfinder
Member
I dunno about that. Technically, they're wearing bikini's...
Unknown Soldier
Member
In waiting for Bish's response to that image lol
Carnby
Member
It's definitely NSFW.
djblackice
Member
What group is that?
Let's see if you learned anything from your prior, multiple bans.
Chobel
Member
Yeah, we're totally picking on him just for shit and giggles.
Your ability to predict the present is astonishing.
serversurfer
Member
If you identify as a PlayStation fan, can I ask why you seem so sad about the fact that Sony are kicking Microsoft's butt? Do you also feel bad for Nintendo?
Sold-through, not sold-in (shipped)? Yeah, that's still pushing it. As I was saying, they'd only shipped about 3M units in the first three quarters of the year. 4M units shipped in the fourth quarter would be a pretty big surge, but MS have shown they can stuff channels rather effectively when they need to. (XB2 only shipped ~700k in the quarter that followed its second Christmas, as I recall.) That said, I can't imagine even MS persuading retailers to take delivery on 5M units during the quarter. Keep in mind that the US and UK are the only countries moving a significant amount of stock as it is; the rest of the world likely already has enough stock to last them for a while. XB3 shipments are likely in the 10-11M range. Actually, 10.5M would let them claim it's outpacing the XB2, so maybe they pushed for that. /shrug
Now, if you're talking actual sales and not shipments, obviously those will be lower. How much lower will be the subject of great debate, of course. Ideally, you want to have just enough stock moving through the channel such that as the last customer is picking up the last console from the shelf, there will be a truck backing in with just the right amount of stock to last you another seven days. It costs money to maintain stock, whether you're holding it in a warehouse or on the shelf in the store. Retailers even go so far as to breaking down their costs per square foot of store space. If their rent works out to $100 per square foot per week, and they can keep 10 widgets stacked in that square foot and sell them over the course of that week, the look at the cost of the widget as whatever wholesale price they paid for the item, plus $10 rent. If it takes two weeks to sell that item, now it's costing them wholesale+$20 to try to sell it.
That's the ideal though. Obviously, it's super hard to predict exactly how many units you'll sell in a given week. Plus, once you've place your order for a restock, you then need to wait for the product to arrive on a container ship from China, then clear customs, then be trucked to the local distribution center, then trucked out to your individual store. That entire process takes weeks, so if you guess wrong and don't order enough units, then it will take weeks for the correction to arrive.
That's the main point of the distribution centers. First, it's a cheap place to warehouse "buffer" stock; if you have a decent stock in the DC, it can help sustain the stores during periods of unexpected demand. Also, by having a DC that serves numerous stores, it can help smooth out local demand fluctuations as well.
So yeah, at any given time, there will lots of units which have "shipped" that customers have never set eyes on; shipments exist for weeks before there's even an opportunity to buy them. So, you're always gonna have a fairly significant amount of unsold shipments at any given time.
That said, having thousands of units sitting in your distribution centers on top of hundreds of units sitting in stores is not what you want. Certainly not heading in to January, at least. That may be an acceptable stock situation to have heading in to Black Friday. Stocks like that seem indicative of fairly severe channel stuffing, which would in turn indicate sell-through that's quite a bit lower than sell-in than one would normally expect.
Therefore, while I'm sure many will argue otherwise, I imagine that whatever Microsoft's current sell-in, their sell through will be substantially lower. Likely two million units or more, I'd say. That may not sound like much compared to the unsold stock I was estimating for Sony, but as I said, supply chains are actually measured in weeks, not units. At the rate they've been selling, 1.5M would probably last Sony around 6 weeks. At the rate MS have been selling 6M/year 2M units is enough stock to last them four months, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were sitting on even more than that, especially if their shipments really are up around the 11M mark.
To make matters worse, a lot of that unsold stock is likely sitting in foreign distribution centers, where it will take even longer to burn through. That's why I was saying they'll have a tough time maintaining their 2014 shipments in 2015; it seems most retailers now have enough stock to last them a good while especially overseas so it will be that much longer before they place another order, and when they do, the order will be that much smaller.
spatenfloot
Member
I would say 11 sold to consumers is possible, but at the high end of estimates. 12 is very unlikely.
The Artisan
Member
Well I never said my numbers were fact. I was asked to make a guesstimation.It's when you state something as a fact, like "PS4 has sold 13 million in Brazil in December, I know this because I work at Jose's Hardware and Cheese Shop". That is when Bish wants to see some hard evidence to back up your claims or else you'll get banned.
You were kinda in the grey area with your numbers and optimism: you claimed something untrue to be true and had no evidence to back this up.
Well, thank you. It is best to be mature and respectful after all, isn't it?
I hope you weren't being sarcastic though.
If, by the crucible, you mean I've been expected to lash out at everyone
yeah. that wasn't going to happen. I'm not that type of guy and that type of behavior in my opinion is in all ways counterproductive.
Sorry, what do you mean by vetted?
I don't know what you're talking about.
Is that so? I've admitted myself for being wrong several times and listened to everyone keenly, and tried responding to damn near every quote I've received here.
Is that the vibe I've been giving? Well then that's a misconception. Let me be clear. I'm thrilled that the Ps4 has been doing so well, and I truly hope it beats the Ps2's lifetime sales.
I could care less how poorly the xbone sells (although like someone said, all things considered, the xbone is doing very well, it's just that the Ps4 has been outshining it so much it just makes the xbone look bad next to it), it's just astonishing to me how so many people think it is hopeless, especially after the massive success of the 360.
No I don't feel bad at all for Nintendo. A new generation of gaming demands for greater hardware and because Nintendo did not meet those demands, they're suffering losses in sales, popularity, and 3rd party support. They did it to themselves.
So if what everyone in this thread is saying is true, that Sony's won the race worldwide and that M$ has a chance only in the U.S/U.K, is that all they're aiming for? To gain market share in those regions and best scenario, take them back?
spatenfloot
Member
I admire your analytical enthusiasm.
Checked out, confirmed to be a source with access to real numbers.
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
It's all good. Nintendo ran off with the total sales too last gen.
Never said you were picking on him. I said he upset the group. I came to that conclusion from his post with like 20 individual quotes. Lol.. that's all. And he did.. be he right or wrong by the looks of all those post to him.
Lot of consoles being sold for both groups. Console gaming is far from dead. Love it.
Nightengale
Member
Of course that's not all they're aiming for (not like they stop selling XB1s elsewhere), but realistically speaking, they've pretty much forfeited the notion that they'll even get the market share they had for ROTW with the 360, much less win the other regions.
By focusing US/UK, they can ensure that at the most healthy and lucrative markets, they'll have a sizable enough market that the big publishers won't abandon them.
We seem to have evolved into groups now. It's kind of like the word mercenary, now they just call them private contractors.
Poimandres
Member
No sarcasm man, I mean it!
I've seen it happen many times when someone comes into a thread and gets hounded (which you most certainly have been!) often times they will disappear from the thread. You seem truly interested in having a discussion and that's a good trait indeed.
spatenfloot
Member
Going through the crucible means you took a lot of heat and criticism, but survived. He was giving you a compliment.
People assume that someone who continually argues a point despite all evidence to the contrary has some sort of agenda. Sometimes it is true.
Microsoft might have been aiming for more than US/UK, but it is unlikely that they can accomplish it, if so. Whether they can still be profitable depends on many factors that only insiders would know. Since they don't release those details of their finances, we can only guess.
wapplew
Member
Phil Spencer said he want to win.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Microsoft is going to use the Xbox family for shipped numbers most likely in their next report.
It's going to be hard to get an accurate amount of units shipped to retailers.
But if I had to guess, ~12 million.
PS4 being around 20 million shipped.
It's going to be hard to get an accurate amount of units shipped to retailers.
But if I had to guess, ~12 million.
PS4 being around 20 million shipped.
<----This is gonna be fun.
What group, Mid?
I guess Spencer is a Console Warrior too?
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Yup. Next week'll be just as fun, too.
The PSBorg.
The Artisan
Member
So, someone actually working within the gaming or electronics sales industry?
Yes they did, good for them. But I'm willing to bet a large portion of Wii owners also owned either a Ps3 or 360.
Nintendo, is also not so lucky now.
I was just doing my best to respond to as many people as I could, that quoted me.
Back when they first started (Xbox) they trailed far behind Sony, but that didn't make developers abandon them. If their sales begin to plummet, I don't think that would make developers abandon them this time around either. That would probably also make people riot.
Well then, I appreciate it. Indeed, this was an exciting topic and what you said is what I wanted... discussion. I wouldn't have joined neogaf if that's not what I was looking for.
Well I can assure I had no agenda. No trolling, no secret insider from M$, nothing. Like I said, I'm pleased to see the Ps4 doing very well.
Win those 2 territories or the entire race? Because as everyone has made crystal to me, believing that xbone can win the race is being delusional.
Chobel
Member
Here's the thing, saying "he upset the group" implies we're fanboys who couldn't take it when he challenged us, which is total BS. Most of us are replying to his ridiculous claims (and I may say 100% wrong claims) and it has nothing to do with someone's favorite device like your comment implied.
Gamezone
Gold Member
I know it`s early, but still. Looks like people prefer their physical hardware at the moment.
Yeah, for example the chap on this thread, Feyhd, works somewhere with access to stock inventory data for the retail chain he works for. Same for another guy, Abdiel.
Presumably they've shown Bish screencaps of stock inventory or something along those lines to confirm they're legit.
serversurfer
Member
11M sold through? That would be ~3.5M outside of the US and UK. That seems like a lot. Where, exactly?
Ah, right on. Personally, I'm astonished at how many people went ahead bought the XBone after MS basically came out and said, "Sure, we know it's terrible for you, but it's good for us, and our research shows you're dumb enough to buy it anyway. Have you seen Titanfall??"
And you don't feel MS are to blame for their hardware that sacrificed gaming for the sake of Windows, and their brazenly consumer-hostile attitude? How about their policies that actively drive developers away from their platform? Who do MS have to blame for their poor sales, if not themselves?
Not so much aiming. It's more that it's all they're left with at this point. In Spain, it literally would've been cheaper for them to give Bones away for free than run the ad campaign they did. Before the fire sale in the US, Sony were outselling them nearly 2:1 here. It's far worse than that in the rest of the world. So bad, in fact, MS didn't ever bother with holiday promos.
XBone simply isn't all that relevant in the grand scheme of things; their sales have pretty much tanked. Right now, it's about maintaining the appearance of relevance among those who believe US=World. I don't personally believe they can survive on half the US market with virtually nothing else, but for now they're focused on those who believe they can, and there are still a surprising number of people who fall in to that category, especially if they happen to speak English. Why, I don't know; I've tried explaining it.
I like to know how things work. Now you know why I was asking so many bizarre questions in the D3 thread. lol
shadowsdarknes
Member
I don't know if I ever saw the answer to this:
Will the Xbox One be 399 with no games from now on?
It seems like the primary SKU is still the AC bundle at 399.
If they are going back to a bare bones SKU then we might be able to get an idea of how long it will take Microsoft to actually sell their shipments and clear inventory.
As of now, most retailers seem fine on AC Unity bundles. I'm wondering if that's the primary SKU for the coming months or if the bare bones model is coming back.
Will the Xbox One be 399 with no games from now on?
It seems like the primary SKU is still the AC bundle at 399.
If they are going back to a bare bones SKU then we might be able to get an idea of how long it will take Microsoft to actually sell their shipments and clear inventory.
As of now, most retailers seem fine on AC Unity bundles. I'm wondering if that's the primary SKU for the coming months or if the bare bones model is coming back.
spatenfloot
Member
I don't personally think it is that high. I am simply saying that theoretically it is possible. It was more of an upper limit if you give Microsoft a lot of benefit of the doubt from their vague PR.