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[Omnistalgic]

weird and interesting turn this thread went lol..about to go play some DA:I, just came here to +1 the poster who blasted MS. I always felt after that statement came out that they basically entered the market so Sony couldn't have a potential monopoly on the living room the company was bad for an entertainment industry.

Besides some strides in online play and helping foster popular PC games on consoles, I'm not too happy with MS still in the game, would like to be replaced like yesterday by another legit entertainment company. But as long as Sony/Nintendo are market leaders, I hope we're in good hands.

X1 I think it smacked right in the middle of 10-10.5 million sold. I do think they won December NPD though, maybe just not by as much as November.

 

[Chobel]

Win those 2 territories or the entire race? Because as everyone has made crystal to me, believing that xbone can win the race is being delusional.

The entire race, but I think it was just a PR.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Where do you guys work, monasteries?

The ass was fat.

I don't know what you're talking about.

It's a figure of speech, it's supposed to keep you guessing. But this has been mightily entertaining nonetheless.

 

[-hadouken]

But if I had to guess, ~12 million.
PS4 being around 20 million shipped.

Agreed.

 

[kyser73]

The ass was fat.

.

Yes, yes it was.

 

[The Artisan]

Yeah, for example the chap on this thread, Feyhd, works somewhere with access to stock inventory data for the retail chain he works for. Same for another guy, Abdiel.

Presumably they've shown Bish screencaps of stock inventory or something along those lines to confirm they're legit.

I see. It's quite the perk, having guys like that around here.

Ah, right on. Personally, I'm astonished at how many people went ahead bought the XBone after MS basically came out and said, "Sure, we know it's terrible for you, but it's good for us, and our research shows you're dumb enough to buy it anyway. Have you seen Titanfall??"

Wait.. when exactly did they say something along the lines of this?

I of course remember the "stick with 360" and the xbox 180... but not that.

And you don't feel MS are to blame for their hardware that sacrificed gaming for the sake of Windows, and their brazenly consumer-hostile attitude? How about their policies that actively drive developers away from their platform? Who do MS have to blame for their poor sales, if not themselves?

To be honest, I don't know enough about the gaming industry to say so. Are you telling me if they never made the Xbox, that PC games could've just been even better?

And I'm not sure what these policies are that you're talking about. The only ones that come to mind are no freetoplay games and that's why 360 didn't get Tekken Revolution, and no crossplatform play which is one of the factors in SF5 not coming to 360. I'm guessing I'm missing a lot?

Not so much aiming. It's more that it's all they're left with at this point. In Spain, it literally would've been cheaper for them to give Bones away for free than run the ad campaign they did. Before the fire sale in the US, Sony were outselling them nearly 2:1 here. It's far worse than that in the rest of the world. So bad, in fact, MS didn't ever bother with holiday promos.

Interesting. And it was the same way last gen right? The only difference being that the 360 was selling so strongly in the states, that it was able to keep its worldwide lead above that of the Ps3's, including of course the 1 year head start..

am I right?

XBone simply isn't all that relevant in the grand scheme of things; their sales have pretty much tanked. Right now, it's about maintaining the appearance of relevance among those who believe US=World. I don't personally believe they can survive on half the US market with virtually nothing else, but for now they're focused on those who believe they can, and there are still a surprising number of people who fall in to that category, especially if they happen to speak English. Why, I don't know; I've tried explaining it.

That's another thing. I am one who does sort of being U.S and UK/Europe = world in gaming, only because those are the regions in which console gaming are strongest. Selling not only millions, but tens of millions. Yes the Ps4 is kicking the xbone's ass all over the world, but it mostly matters in the states and in Europe, doesn't it?

If I'm missing more details feel free to fill me in.

The entire race, but I think it was just a PR.

Okay. Because if he did mean the entire race, wouldn't that be delusional, just like what everyone in this thread was telling me?

The ass was fat.

It's a figure of speech, it's supposed to keep you guessing. But this has been mightily entertaining nonetheless.

oookay. I really don't know what you meant so there's nothing for me to even guess here.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I thought last we knew TLOU was at 8 million. That's with a huge PS3 install base and the PS4 version. We should temper our expectations. I would expect UC4 to do around 3 million WW in 2015.

Maybe. But nowadays Uncharted is the PS4 franchise and not an also-runner like back then in 2007. 10m (within one year) is absolutely possible, although that means it has to reach a 25-30% attach rate.

 

[Aquamarine]

I see. It's quite the perk, having guys like that around here.

it's called channel checking....professional analysts do it all the time.

the fact that we have guys who work at managerial-levels here on gaf who go out of their way to give retail leaks is a testament to gaf's preeminence in sales discussion.

 

[kaching]

So if what everyone in this thread is saying is true, that Sony's won the race worldwide and that M$ has a chance only in the U.S/U.K, is that all they're aiming for? To gain market share in those regions and best scenario, take them back?

Not everyone can be first place, Art, and there isn't necessarily any need for it, depending on one's priorities. Not sure why you're struggling with that concept when we see it all the time in various markets where there's a large enough customer base to support multiple competitors, all succeeding to different degrees and/or focusing on different facets of the market in question. Is every car maker #1 in the world?

 

[Hahs]

Sony announces 18.5 million PlayStation 4 consoles sold WW

Good! Now reduce the freakin' price already - greedy bastards!

 

[RespectThySole]

11 million is possible. The XB1 was between 8.3-8.5 million on Dec. 3. US sales were 4.9 million at that point as well. We know that the UK hit 1 million about 2 weeks prior to that so let's say they sold another 100k in the UK since then that would put them at 1.1 million there through Dec. 3.

This means that US+UK accounts for 6 million of the 8.3-8.5 million or about 70-72% of total sales depending on which figure is accurate. If we say they sold 1.7 million in December US+UK(could be less than that for sure but it's definitely in the realm of possibility) then that would put them at 7.7 million which is 70% of 11 million and in line with the above ratio.

Personally, I think they are at 10.5 million though with about 12 million shipped.

 

[Nightengale]

Interesting. And it was the same way last gen right? The only difference being that the 360 was selling so strongly in the states, that it was able to keep its worldwide lead above that of the Ps3's, including of course the 1 year head start..

am I right?

Yes, and no.

It's true that 360 never bested PS3 in mainland Europe and Asia, but despite that, because of PS3's early missteps and the higher price, 360 did carve a "small, but still respectable" market share in some countries.

We're seeing a situation where even that small market share 360 had is being eaten by PS4. In other words, Xbox needs to sell even more strongly than PlayStation this gen compared to the last to make up for Xbox's presumed "smaller" Europe market this time round.

Okay. Because if he did mean the entire race, wouldn't that be delusional, just like what everyone in this thread was telling me?
oookay. I really don't know what you meant so there's nothing for me to even guess here.

If you're the boss of a billion dollar business and the no.2 in the market, will you tell the world "we've given up hope at winning those markets."?

Besides, wanting to win =/= believing they can win.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

Good! Now reduce the freakin' price already - greedy bastards!

uh...huh...what?

 

[Putty]

ANYWAY...18.5m, ain't that a thing? By this time next year they'll of sold some more, I'm sure of it.

 

[Putty]

uh...huh...what?

Good! Now reduce the freakin' price already - greedy bastards!

Lovely sense of humour.

 

[Deraj]

Wait.. when exactly did they say something along the lines of this?

I remember this quote from an interview with Yusuf Mehdi..

While the Internet is decidedly up in arms about the way the Xbox One handles game ownership and online check-ins, Mehdi said it was "hard to say" what the larger reaction from the less attentive mainstream consumers would be. "I think it's fair to say there's a segment of consumers at this show in particular who really pay attention, who are very passionate about all aspects of gaming, and that we listen to closely. In a broader set of community, people don't pay attention to a lot of the details. We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points."

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/

 

[GHG]

I remember this quote from an interview with Yusuf Mehdi..



http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/

I can't believe he actually said that. Ridiculous.

And to think there was a defence force for their actions at the time...

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I can't believe he actually said that. Ridiculous.

And to think there was a defence force for their actions at the time...

Lol I remember it went something like "At least Microsoft is INNOVATING! Sony is just rehashing the same thing!"

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

I can't believe he actually said that. Ridiculous.

And to think there was a defence force for their actions at the time...

At the time? There still are defenders of the original DRM plans.

 

[FuturusX]

At the time? There still are defenders of the original DRM plans.

Stockholm syndrome...

 

[travisbickle]

If we estimate Sony shipped 19-20 million, and MS 10-11 million. Were these decisions decided before the gen started? or have they been adjusted to relate to sales.
It's crazy to think Sony preordered that many for manufacture, but I've read these companies do have to set an amount over a year when working with Foxconn ... or whoever.

 

[Pathfinder]

Stockholm syndrome...

Stockholm syndrome involves hostages. If there is more than one choice of video game console to choose from, no one is being held captive.

The fact of the matter is there are people who don't believe that an all-digital future would have been so bad. People are free to have their own opinions about things.

 

[Biker19]

Calm down...I merely answered your question.

I just find that the question that Etnos asked me earlier was degrading & uncalled for.

That's why I thought that it was stupid.

Good! Now reduce the freakin' price already - greedy bastards!

I don't think you understand their financial situation.

 

[GHG]

Stockholm syndrome involves hostages. If there is more than one choice of video game console to choose from, no one is being held captive.

The fact of the matter is there are people who don't believe that an all-digital future would have been so bad. People are free to have their own opinions about things.

There is a big difference between an all digital future and a system that completely strips you of your consumer rights and holds you hostage.

 

[samar11]

My guess is that they still haven't sold 10 million to consumers, outside of US/UK this thing is completely dead. I going for 9ish million

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Stockholm syndrome involves hostages. If there is more than one choice of video game console to choose from, no one is being held captive.

The fact of the matter is there are people who don't believe that an all-digital future would have been so bad. People are free to have their own opinions about things.

All all-digital future that looked a lot like how Steam works on PCs wouldn't have been so bad.

What MS was originally envisioning with the Bone's always online DRM was akin to literally giving up all your consumer rights in exchange for nothing.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Microsoft is going to use the Xbox family for shipped numbers most likely in their next report.
It's going to be hard to get an accurate amount of units shipped to retailers.


But if I had to guess, ~12 million.
PS4 being around 20 million shipped.

Every company reports shipped figures in their annual reports, Sony included. But I agree completely with your shipment predictions.

 

[travisbickle]

Every company reports shipped figures in their annual reports, Sony included. But I agree completely with your shipment predictions.

MS have been combining 360/One shipments.

 

[Solaire of Astora]

My guess is that they still haven't sold 10 million to consumers, outside of US/UK this thing is completely dead. I going for 9ish million

I can't really see them wanting to announce ten million after the news about ps4 sales hit. It just looks bad.

 

[Pathfinder]

There is a big difference between an all digital future and a system that completely strips you of your consumer rights and holds you hostage.

All all-digital future that looked a lot like how Steam works on PCs wouldn't have been so bad.

What MS was originally envisioning with the Bone's always online DRM was akin to literally giving up all your consumer rights in exchange for nothing.

And I believe that's where the point of contention was and still is. Not everyone believed that's exactly what Microsoft's plan was going to be like upon execution.

And since it didn't happen, we'll never know for sure.

 

[EGM1966]

And I believe that's where the point of contention was and still is. Not everyone believed that's exactly what Microsoft's plan was going to be like upon execution.

And since it didn't happen, we'll never know for sure.

Ultimately MS failed to communicate their plans well. Maybe they were rushed before they were ready by Sony. Maybe certain elements hadn't been locked down.

Whichever, they sounded confused as to their own product and devices and that does not go down well with consumer products. From that point they were in trouble. The 180s saved them somewhat is US and UK but most everywhere else decided their message sounded unclear and faintly suspicious and passed.

Not saying Sony didn't execute well because they mostly dos but MS handed them an easy task marketing message wise and Sony took the initiative hence stuff like the "trading games on PS4" video.

 

[Pathfinder]

Ultimately MS failed to communicate their plans well. Maybe they were rushed before they were ready by Sony. Maybe certain elements hadn't been locked down.

Whichever, they sounded confused as to their own product and devices and that does not go down well with consumer products. From that point they were in trouble. The 180s saved them somewhat is US and UK but most everywhere else decided their message sounded unclear and faintly suspicious and passed.

Not saying Sony didn't execute well because they mostly dos but MS handed them an easy task marketing message wise and Sony took the initiative hence stuff like the "trading games on PS4" video.

Exactly. They failed to properly communicate their plans. Probably because even they didn't know exactly what they wanted during the reveal. Me personally, it always sounded like they had a vague idea of what they wanted but had no real plan of execution.

So the overall message was muddled and it left people to come up with their own conclusions about what they meant and where they were aiming.

And then Sony came in with their YouTube video about how easy it was to share games with one another, and that was basically all she wrote regarding the reveals. Sony won with flying colors because of their black and white solution to used games and trading.

 

[biglittleps]

If we estimate Sony shipped 19-20 million, and MS 10-11 million. Were these decisions decided before the gen started? or have they been adjusted to relate to sales.
It's crazy to think Sony preordered that many for manufacture, but I've read these companies do have to set an amount over a year when working with Foxconn ... or whoever.

I think sony underestimated and MS overestimated the shipments they needed this gen. Everybody expecting Xbone to dominate this time due to Xbox360 was dominating last gen for 3rd party and now those 3rd party developers have paid the price which is evident from some games released so far. Mostly from this year onwards Sony going to get the big advantage because XB1 is not going sell their games other than US and UK (even here Sony sells more) this gen but Sony got WW.

 

[Bastables]

And I believe that's where the point of contention was and still is. Not everyone believed that's exactly what Microsoft's plan was going to be like upon execution.

And since it didn't happen, we'll never know for sure.

Wait so now you're going with the schrodinger defence: It might have killed the cat it might have given the cat treats.

 

[Pathfinder]

Wait so now you're going with the schrodinger defence: It might have killed the cat it might have given the cat treats.

I'm not personally defending anything. I'm simply explaining how a person could still side with Microsoft after their disastrous reveal, since that was the question that was asked earlier in this page.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

And then Sony came in with their YouTube video about how easy it was to share games with one another, and that was basically all she wrote regarding the reveals. Sony won with flying colors because of their black and white solution to used games and trading.

Being able to give or sell the game to anybody you want is certainly black and white

 

[Pathfinder]

Being able to give or sell the game to anybody you want is certainly black and white

Yup. You either give/sell it, or you don't. You're the sole decider.

Why over-complicate something that is supposed to be simple?

 

[slavesnyder]

If we estimate Sony shipped 19-20 million, and MS 10-11 million. Were these decisions decided before the gen started? or have they been adjusted to relate to sales.
It's crazy to think Sony preordered that many for manufacture, but I've read these companies do have to set an amount over a year when working with Foxconn ... or whoever.

I am quite sure that Foxcon can react quite spontaniously to higher or lower demand of production. it is all a question of negotiation of contracts and, worst case, some extra money. getting manpower for the assembly lines should be no problem anyway, only adding more production lines. but I guess they are trained to react on any sudden rise of demand. otherwise they would not be the number one in consumer electronics manufacturing. there are enough even cheaper countries who would be delighted to take the orders...

also, maybe one of the competitors wanted to reduce the amount of production of consoles (or at least sensor-mounted camera devices) at the same time as the other one wanted to speed up...

 

[Occam]

They failed to properly communicate their plans.

They put up a web page with all the details (property removal system, mandatory Kinect etc.) on xbox.com, iirc

Did anyone save that? Trying to find it now.

 

[Cels]

ps4 at 18.5, and xb1 at 10m (a fair estimate) is kind of insane

if someone had told me this 3 years ago i would have laughed

imo the exclusive lineups for both systems aren't all that great but the market seems to be driven by big 3rd party games, of which there are plenty.

 

[Unknown One]

It was a stupid plan in the first place. I'm assuming Microsoft wanted to get rid of used game sales because they'll end up making more money off game royalties.

 

[Aquamarine]

They put up a web page with all the details (property removal system, mandatory Kinect etc.) on xbox.com, iirc

Did anyone save that? Trying to find it now.

you mean this?

http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/qa

 

[Pathfinder]

They put up a web page with all the details (property removal system, mandatory Kinect etc.) on xbox.com, iirc

Did anyone save that? Trying to find it now.

I remember something of that nature as well, Google probably has a cache of it somewhere.

But with all their 180's and uncertainty at the time, I'd hardly call that definite.

you mean this?

http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/qa

I believe that was it, yes. Note how the "always on" detail had already been adjusted due to public scrutiny.

 

[samar11]

ps4 at 18.5, and xb1 at 10m is kind of insane

if someone had told me this 3 years ago i would have laughed

xb1 10m is shipped mate, not sold to consumers.

 

[TAJ]

And I believe that's where the point of contention was and still is. Not everyone believed that's exactly what Microsoft's plan was going to be like upon execution.

And since it didn't happen, we'll never know for sure.

Surely MS still wants people to go digital. Look at all that effort they've put into making digital an attractive value proposition. Oh, wait...
And that's in a market where Live is actually competing with retail.

 

[PoweredByHentai]

Exactly. They failed to properly communicate their plans. Probably because even they didn't know exactly what they wanted during the reveal. Me personally, it always sounded to me like they had a vague idea of what they wanted but had no real plan of execution.

So the overall message was muddled and it left people to come up with their own conclusions about what they meant and where they were aiming.

And then Sony came in with their YouTube video about how easy it was to share games with one another, and that was basically all she wrote regarding the reveals. Sony won with flying colors because of their black and white solution to used games and trading.

I kind of disagree. Microsoft's problem was that none of their executives were on the same page. As a result of that, you have this toxic situation of people opening their yaps and contradicting their colleagues followed by a refusal to answer a fairly simple (but explosive) question regarding ownership.

It also did not help that the Xbone's unveil was at the height of global distrust of the US Govt thanks to the whole Snowden fallout. And to add insult to injury, you have an Xbox executive (Yusuf Mehdi) going around opening his yap to advertising companies about selling targeted ads that were powered by the mandatory camera.

The TV TV TV SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS TV TV SPORTS TV TV spiel was a terrible thing to do for a product's first impression, especially when the non-American markets don't care about American football and American TV shows.

They had one chance to do a first impression properly and they totally botched it.

It is like a multi-stage job interview. You make the best impression you can in the first round so that people remember you well enough to invite you to the second round of interviews. Then in the second round of interviews, you elaborate on your experiences and insights and hope that you impress people enough to get into the 3rd/final round of interviews.

In this case, Microsoft showed up totally drunk to the first round of interviews and people basically stopped considering Microsoft as a candidate.

 

[slavesnyder]

It was a stupid plan in the first place. I'm assuming Microsoft wanted to get rid of used game sales because they'll end up making more money off game royalties.

...a nd that's okay so far. I guess even sony would love to get rid of the used games market and earn more money.
the difference is sony knew that taking measures to eliminate the used games will backfire hard. and in a crazy mixture of understanding the business and maybe even respect for their consumers they let it be.

 

[biglittleps]

Currently PS4 is outselling XB1 at Amazon best sellers after 2 months, so its clear that XB1 don't have a chance at $399 and they definitely need to do the price cut permanent to be competitive for the next 6 months where PS4 got their big exclusives otherwise XB1 will be outsold by PS4 2/3:1 easily.

 

[EmptySpace]

you mean this?

http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/qa

Q: Why require Kinect with every Xbox One?
A: The all new Kinect is now an essential and integrated part of the platform.

so essential that they threw it away the moment the system couldn't sell.


poor harmonix.

 

[Pathfinder]

I kind of disagree. Microsoft's problem was that none of their executives were on the same page. As a result of that, you have this toxic situation of people opening their yaps and contradicting their colleagues followed by a refusal to answer a fairly simple (but explosive) question regarding ownership.

It also did not help that the Xbone's unveil was at the height of global distrust of the US Govt thanks to the whole Snowden fallout. And to add insult to injury, you have an Xbox executive (Yusuf Mehdi) going around opening his yap to advertising companies about selling targeted ads that were powered by the mandatory camera.

The TV TV TV SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS TV TV SPORTS TV TV spiel was a terrible thing to do for a product's first impression, especially when the non-American markets don't care about American football and American TV shows.

They had one chance to do a first impression properly and they totally botched it.

It is like a multi-stage job interview. You make the best impression you can in the first round so that people remember you well enough to invite you to the second round of interviews. Then in the second round of interviews, you elaborate on your experiences and insights and hope that you impress people enough to get into the 3rd/final round of interviews.

In this case, Microsoft showed up totally drunk to the first round of interviews and people basically stopped considering Microsoft as a candidate.

Actually, I think we're mostly in agreement.