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[FirewalkR]

This thread is about the world's greatest computer - the Commodore Amiga - and also PS4 sales.

I like you and fully endorse this post.

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

The FIFA14 for free deal at launch and the free game deal during Destiny lunch should also costed a lot

 

[Xando]

I'd wager that EA would still be willing to sign partnerships with Microsoft, for the right price.

EA would sign exclusive partnerships with ouya if they paid them enough.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

How much was the MS-FIFA deal? I seem to recall some absurd partnership that MS did for half a billion bucks. Was that supposed to be for FIFA or NFL or both?

Imagine how many first party games they could have funded with that...smh.

 

[RedAssedApe]

The FIFA14 for free deal at launch and the free game deal during Destiny lunch should also costed a lot

totally forgot about these...man kind of crazy how far behind they still are with all these promotions.

 

[driver116]

It actually starts making sense if the sales are lopsided enough. You can see it in Japan where so many games are de facto exclusives, despite them being made by Japanese developers and having Xbox versions overseas. The cost of localizing is higher than the potential. The sales do have to be very lopsided to reach that point but if we had been in that situation, the almost identical architecture wouldn't help.

Japan is definitely the exception - there's been virtually no Xbox presence in Japan.

 

[ConanTheKing]

I work with a bunch of ex-Microsoft people (here in Seattle). The common thing I hear is that Microsoft has no respect for their customers. In fact, a Windows user is not a customer, they are a user. Their customers are the OEMs like HP and Dell. Users are the idiots who don't know how to use Microsoft's sophisticated software. That's the attitude that's perpetuated in Redmond.

That's the Windows/Office side. I don't know many people who were in gaming so the attitude may be different being gamers are the actual customers but after the stunt they tried to pull at E3 2013 it's clear that their loyalties are for their publishers not the gamers. But, hey, Phil rocked a State of Decay tee. Gamer.

I do agree with you on your criticisms of Microsoft's approach to competition. I have no respect for a company that tries to solve every problem by thrown a mountain of cash at it.

In human computer interaction design a user is just that, someone that uses. They are not thought of as a customer because the designer is not thinking about a sale, they are thinking about how they use a system so they can design for them the best system. It's not negative but quite positive, it's why things like keyboard and mice have been developed, clearer screens, ergonomics etc.

 

[driver116]

The NFL one was the TV app, Surface use instead of iPads for the NFL. That was the 500 million deal.

The EA one was apparently 1 billion, Titanfall, FIFA ultimate, Plants versus Zombies Garden Warfare, Battlefield DLC, Madden. Not sure about that sum of money but they had a partnership for sure that I imagine EA won't be too willing to sign again.

If only they'd spend such money on 1st party exclusives.

 

[slavesnyder]

Harrison really only pops up when Europe is in the spotlight.

We should see him more this year, I think, with RARE likely announcing their next game and Lionhead shows more of Legends.

If they are bad, Harrison will have the honour to present them.
If they are good, we will see another Phil on stage.

 

[driver116]

But, hey, Phil rocked a State of Decay tee. Gamer.

Marketing at it finest right there. It's no different than some forty something year old wearing a baseball cap backwards and in hi tops to seem stereotypically 'hip'.

 

[travisbickle]

totally forgot about these...man kind of crazy how far behind they still are with all these promotions.

We can all see now how FIFA Ultimate Team Legends exclusive to Xbox One made a difference.

 

[kruis]

The NFL one was the TV app, Surface use instead of iPads for the NFL. That was the 500 million deal.

According to NFL.com the deal was worth 400 million dollars.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...rike-deal-to-enhance-fans-tv-viewing-of-games

Envision Peyton Manning sitting on the bench and dissecting the last series from a variety of camera angles on his hand-held device instead of looking at still photos. Or sitting at home and pulling up real-time highlights on a Sunday afternoon.

It's coming.

The NFL and Microsoft, through its next generation Xbox device, are combining to upgrade interactive TV viewing of pro football games in a multiyear agreement announced Tuesday. The next step after that, perhaps as early as 2014, will be bringing technology to the sidelines on tablets.

The deal is worth $400 million over five years for the NFL, according to a person familiar with the agreement. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because financial details have not been made public.

"When you think about the sidelines, what is most important for us is how you make the game of football better, make what the coaches and players do better, using technology but preserving the competition," said Brian Rolapp, chief operating officer of NFL Media. "The challenge is how to bring technology to make it a better experience for them and for the fans.

"You can start with how we communicate with each other, whether it's game officials or coaches. Coaches can look at formations as they develop. We'll look at how do you do the still photos better, get more into real time? Is there a more efficient way to give replay officials a way of doing reviews better through technology?"

That's for the future, albeit the not-too-distant future.

Fans will get new television viewing innovations, including the ability to watch games, Skype video chat with other fans, view statistics, access highlights in real time and gather fantasy information about players and teams -- all on a single screen. For those who prefer multiple screens, fans can get an even deeper experience on mobile devices and tablets with SmartGlass technology.

"From the use of instant replay to the yellow first-down line that has become an important element of the at-home television viewing experience, the NFL is committed to leveraging technology to improve our game for coaches, players and fans," NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said. "We're thrilled to be teaming with a true innovator like Microsoft to shape the future of the NFL game experience both on-field, and in the living room."

Such technology is expected to keep fans not one step but several strides ahead of what's being presented live on TV now.

...

I have no idea how many of those planned features (fantasy football, smartglass, skype) are currently working. It seems like a complete waste of money since this the rest of the world is absolutely not interested in American football. Of course, the idea was not just to market the Xbox One but Surface tablets as well.

 

[driver116]

If they are bad, Harrison will have the honour to present them.
If they are good, we will see another Phil on stage.

It's pointless Rare going back to making 'traditional' games when they make a fair bit of cash from the shovelware. Instead, Microsoft should hand their IP's to talented third party studios.

 

[serversurfer]

Back when they first started (Xbox) they trailed far behind Sony, but that didn't make developers abandon them. If their sales begin to plummet, I don't think that would make developers abandon them this time around either. That would probably also make people riot.

Sure, but not many people. Regarding support for the XB1, devs didn't really "abandon" it, because they were barely supporting it in the first place; it was LTTP, after all. The PS2 got way more games than the XB1, thanks largely to its market share. The same is likely to happen with the XB3, though in reverse, because they were tied at the start of the generation, so devs needed to play it safe and support both of them. Now, there are fewer and fewer reasons to work with MS though.

I don't personally think it is that high. I am simply saying that theoretically it is possible. It was more of an upper limit if you give Microsoft a lot of benefit of the doubt from their vague PR.

Ah. Gotcha.

Wait.. when exactly did they say something along the lines of this?

Deraj covered the first part. So yeah, not only is "Can we actually get away with this?" something they discuss during product planning, it actually has its own budget so they can determine exactly how they'll be able to do so.

The Titanfall bit was literally Major Nelson's response to DRM concerns. Some girl from Reddit was interviewing him at E3 2013, and when she tried to bring it up, he cut her off with, "Have you seen Titanfall? Nuff said. Conversation over." And in fact, it was over, because Hyrb's handlers indicated from off camera that she needed to move on to another subject.

To be honest, I don't know enough about the gaming industry to say so. Are you telling me if they never made the Xbox, that PC games could've just been even better?

Sorry, I don't follow. Why would that make PC games any better?

And I'm not sure what these policies are that you're talking about. The only ones that come to mind are no freetoplay games and that's why 360 didn't get Tekken Revolution, and no crossplatform play which is one of the factors in SF5 not coming to 360. I'm guessing I'm missing a lot?

Actually, I'm impressed you picked up on the cross-platform play. Feature parity is the one people often refuse to believe, even when the developers themselves talk about it. But it goes way beyond cross-platform play. Basically, MS can veto features on other platforms if they think not having it will make the XBox look too bad. For example, Ubisoft had implemented Minority Report-style gesture controls for the PS3 version of EndWar. No controller required; simply wave your hands in front of the PlayStation Eye. Creative Director Julian Gerigthy seemed quite excited about it, but told reporters he'd only be able to include the feature on PS3 if MS approved it because he was expected to deliver "feature parity," adding, "I may not be able to talk about this yet…" The feature was never spoken of publicly again, to my knowledge.

Launch parity is another one. If you decide to release your game first on the popular, powerful, dev-friendly platform, that game is no longer welcome on XBox, ever. Release on XBox first (or simultaneously, if you can afford it), or kiss those users goodbye once and for all.

The XB1 was between 8.3-8.5 million on Dec. 3.

Correction: Bish was told that.

Personally, I think they are at 10.5 million though with about 12 million shipped.

That seems unrealistically high. First, that would be a massive jump in shipments compared to what they'd done the rest of the year. Second, if you figure 7.5M across US/UK, where do you come up with another 3M units?

I can't believe he actually said that. Ridiculous.

And to think there was a defence force for their actions at the time...

What I find ridiculous is there are people who now believe that was "the old Microsoft," and the new Microsoft is only here to love gamers. Ironically, that's exactly what I was told when trying to warn gamers about Microsoft c. 2007.

Stockholm syndrome involves hostages. If there is more than one choice of video game console to choose from, no one is being held captive.

Exactly. That's why stuff like their Netflix racket was never indictable. It's not Microsoft's fault if people are actually stupid enough to buy their products.

The fact of the matter is there are people who don't believe that an all-digital future would have been so bad. People are free to have their own opinions about things.

I have no issues whatsoever with a digital future.

Spoiler

Though I do think we should push legislation to make all licenses transferrable.

Apart from a few BOGOs I picked up at launch, all of my purchases have been digital this generation. What I do take issue with is their attempt to actively trick* people in to giving up their property rights.

*per Mehdi

My guess is that they still haven't sold 10 million to consumers, outside of US/UK this thing is completely dead. I going for 9ish million

Yeah, I can buy that.

Exactly. They failed to properly communicate their plans. Probably because even they didn't know exactly what they wanted during the reveal. Me personally, it always sounded like they had a vague idea of what they wanted but had no real plan of execution.

No, I think they had a pretty clear idea of what they wanted to accomplish; stripping consumers of all the rights granted to them under First Sale. What they were unable to explain to us was the shiny bauble they intended to distract us with while they did so; family sharing. Now, while it's possible that mere months from launch, they still had no idea what it was going to be, I'm more inclined to believe they had that planned as well, but were reluctant to discuss it lest we realize it was less of a shiny bauble and more of a polished turd. Remember it was only after family sharing was off the table that they could suddenly be clear about how awesome family sharing would've been, if only us ignorant, close-minded lusers hadn't fucked it all up. Prior to that, they were incredibly vague and evasive about the feature.

I kind of feel that Phil Harrison is kind of under-appreciated as an executive. He was pretty much the only Microsoft executive who was giving straight answers when none of the others could or would. =/

Actually, Harrison and Mehdi are my favorite MS execs, for that very reason.

 

[Joni]

Japan is definitely the exception - there's been virtually no Xbox presence in Japan.

Yes, it is the only place where sales between PS3-Xbox 360 and PS4-One are lopsided enough to warrant not supporting one console despite them being alike.

 

[protomouse]

Xbox One launched with a rough round the edges SDK and a more complex to program and design for architecture. As a result early games struggled on the system to match performance available on PS4. MS scrambled to improve the SDK, improve OS and reserve footprint and work with developers to improve performance as a result.

Huh? The XB1 and PS4 are nearly identical in that sense. The PS4 has an edge in GPU compute and memory bandwidth. The XB1 has an edge in CPU compute. Both machines are based on the same technology, from the same hot dog stand. The technology situation is completely at odds with the funky-ass Cell design vs. the competition (I honestly don't know what compelled Sony to release such ridiculously over-engineered hardware). The PS3's downfall was always its value proposition (something they struggled with throughout most of the previous generation). The XB1's downfall is that Microsoft shat all over their brand. Both these chains of events have contributed significantly to the PS4's success.

 

[Rymuth]

Iirc the $300m was for NFL deal alone, didn't even know they had another with FIFA.

But wasn't the marketing budget for launch something like $500m?

They are good at pissing their money down the drain it seems. I'm not impressed though, it's unsustainable.

Kinect 2.0 R&D? thats another massive blackhole there, has to be bigger then both of those.


Gears of War franchise purchase cant have come cheap too.

You guys also forget that they've created an ENTIRE Entertainment Studio for Xbox One.

http://recode.net/2014/07/17/microsoft-to-shut-down-xbox-entertainment-studios/

Over 200 employees for a business venture that lasted 2 years in preparation for exclusive TV programming for Xbone. Halo Nightfall was only the beginning. Larry even hinted they were going to revive Futurama.

So much money burned.

Imagine how many first party games they could have funded with that...smh.

Infinite warchest, breh. Phil Spencer has a blank cheque, blah blah blah.

 

[PoweredByHentai]

It would be a much higher price now with the PS4 success. Microsoft can't keep going all out, they'll never get their investment back, it's whether it's worth backing it long term when they could get a return.

Some people made a good point, Microsoft have spent ridiculous amounts of money for the return they've got whereas Sony picking their battles and not going anywhere near the same level, have done remarkably well. The finances for Xbox must look so bad. Microsoft are probably looking long term for sunshine and roses.

My understanding is that MS shareholders are getting itchy about putting the Xbox division on the chopping block.

EA would sign exclusive partnerships with ouya if they paid them enough.

They would probably demand the EAon price.

Imagine how many first party games they could have funded with that...smh.

This always annoyed me about MS. They have that much money to piss away but would never allocate those sort of funds on internal studios. Then again, I'm not sure if I want Microsoft to ever purchase any more studios given Microsoft's history of destroying the various game developers that I liked (i.e. FASA).

Actually, Harrison and Mehdi are my favorite MS execs, for that very reason.

I think I'd have a better impression of Mehdi if he didn't try to lie to the public by saying one thing to one group and saying something else to another group.

 

[driver116]

You guys also forget that they've created an ENTIRE Entertainment Studio for Xbox One.

http://recode.net/2014/07/17/microsoft-to-shut-down-xbox-entertainment-studios/

Over 200 employees for a business venture that lasted 2 years in preparation for exclusive TV programming for Xbone. Halo Nightfall was only the beginning. Larry even hinted they were going to revive Futurama.

So much money burned.



Infinite warchest, breh. Phil Spencer has a blank cheque, blah blah blah.

Jack of all trades, master of none.

 

[driver116]

Imagine how many first party games they could have funded with that...smh.

The division is run like a business, by, this, buy that. - But never build.

 

[AlfeG]

The XB1 has an edge in CPU compute.

Where is this "data" come from? Is there any proofs?

 

[driver116]

Where is this "data" come from? Is there any proofs?

They overclocked the CPU slightly to try to offset the power difference - but in reality just made it unbalanced. Developers can also unlock extra CPU power by not using Kinect/voice commands in their games.

 

[AlfeG]

They overclocked the CPU slightly to try to offset the power difference - but in reality just made it unbalanced. Developers can also unlock extra CPU power by not using Kinect/voice commands in their games.

But there is still no proofs that there is more CPU power. We just know, that nowadays XOne has more CPU power, than at release day.

 

[wapplew]

This always annoyed me about MS. They have that much money to piss away but would never allocate those sort of funds on internal studios. Then again, I'm not sure if I want Microsoft to ever purchase any more studios given Microsoft's history of destroying the various game developers that I liked (i.e. FASA)

That's show how commit MS is in gaming business.

 

[Dazza]

The division is run like a business, by, this, buy that. - But never build.

To be honest that has always been Microsoft MO across the board, that and anti-competitive practices

 

[travisbickle]

You guys also forget that they've created an ENTIRE Entertainment Studio for Xbox One.

http://recode.net/2014/07/17/microsoft-to-shut-down-xbox-entertainment-studios/

Over 200 employees for a business venture that lasted 2 years in preparation for exclusive TV programming for Xbone. Halo Nightfall was only the beginning. Larry even hinted they were going to revive Futurama.

So much money burned.

I assume MS were planning to take on tv streaming services too.

 

[Marlenus]

Huh? The XB1 and PS4 are nearly identical in that sense. The PS4 has an edge in GPU compute and memory bandwidth. The XB1 has an edge in CPU compute. Both machines are based on the same technology, from the same hot dog stand.

The ESRAM in the Xbox One gives devs an extra hurdle to overcome compared to the PS4. The gap is nothing like 360 vs PS3 in terms of difficulty of development but there is a small gap there.

But there is still no proofs that there is more CPU power. We just know, that nowadays XOne has more CPU power, than at release day.

It has more CPU power because the CPU runs at a higher clock speed and aside from that they are both the same.

What you mean is regarding API overhead, this has been improved on Xbox One. Is it enough to make the amount of usable CPU power equal or greater than the PS4? I do not know. A few months ago when the Metro devs were talking about it the answer was no but that could have changed by now.

 

[mrklaw]

Huh? The XB1 and PS4 are nearly identical in that sense. The PS4 has an edge in GPU compute and memory bandwidth. The XB1 has an edge in CPU compute. Both machines are based on the same technology, from the same hot dog stand. The technology situation is completely at odds with the funky-ass Cell design vs. the competition (I honestly don't know what compelled Sony to release such ridiculously over-engineered hardware). The PS3's downfall was always its value proposition (something they struggled with throughout most of the previous generation). The XB1's downfall is that Microsoft shat all over their brand. Both these chains of events have contributed significantly to the PS4's success.

The architecture in the XB1 is complicated by the ESRAM. If you ignore it, it is pretty much like the PS4, only with really slow ram added to the slower GPU. So to get the best out of it (which you need to, because it is the lower powered of the two), you need to leverage that ESRAM and start managing the fridge.

Nowhere near as complex as the PS3 was, but still.

 

[jelly]

The amount of money Microsoft piss away on marketing and other ventures is like betting all your chips on one number/red or black in the hope of scoring big. It's like they take the easy route that is also a huge gamble but daddy Office and mummy Windows will always pay the bill when it doesn't work out.

I think the Windows and Xbox tease is the safety net so they can one day say goodbye to the console division or at least leverage the massive Windows base to get some money back.

 

[Grinchy]

If you identify as a PlayStation fan, can I ask why you seem so sad about the fact that Sony are kicking Microsoft's butt? Do you also feel bad for Nintendo?


Sold-through, not sold-in (shipped)? Yeah, that's still pushing it. As I was saying, they'd only shipped about 3M units in the first three quarters of the year. 4M units shipped in the fourth quarter would be a pretty big surge, but MS have shown they can stuff channels rather effectively when they need to. (XB2 only shipped ~700k in the quarter that followed its second Christmas, as I recall.) That said, I can't imagine even MS persuading retailers to take delivery on 5M units during the quarter. Keep in mind that the US and UK are the only countries moving a significant amount of stock as it is; the rest of the world likely already has enough stock to last them for a while. XB3 shipments are likely in the 10-11M range. Actually, 10.5M would let them claim it's outpacing the XB2, so maybe they pushed for that. /shrug

Now, if you're talking actual sales and not shipments, obviously those will be lower. How much lower will be the subject of great debate, of course. Ideally, you want to have just enough stock moving through the channel such that as the last customer is picking up the last console from the shelf, there will be a truck backing in with just the right amount of stock to last you another seven days. It costs money to maintain stock, whether you're holding it in a warehouse or on the shelf in the store. Retailers even go so far as to breaking down their costs per square foot of store space. If their rent works out to $100 per square foot per week, and they can keep 10 widgets stacked in that square foot and sell them over the course of that week, the look at the cost of the widget as whatever wholesale price they paid for the item, plus $10 rent. If it takes two weeks to sell that item, now it's costing them wholesale+$20 to try to sell it.

That's the ideal though. Obviously, it's super hard to predict exactly how many units you'll sell in a given week. Plus, once you've place your order for a restock, you then need to wait for the product to arrive on a container ship from China, then clear customs, then be trucked to the local distribution center, then trucked out to your individual store. That entire process takes weeks, so if you guess wrong and don't order enough units, then it will take weeks for the correction to arrive.

That's the main point of the distribution centers. First, it's a cheap place to warehouse "buffer" stock; if you have a decent stock in the DC, it can help sustain the stores during periods of unexpected demand. Also, by having a DC that serves numerous stores, it can help smooth out local demand fluctuations as well.

So yeah, at any given time, there will lots of units which have "shipped" that customers have never set eyes on; shipments exist for weeks before there's even an opportunity to buy them. So, you're always gonna have a fairly significant amount of unsold shipments at any given time.

That said, having thousands of units sitting in your distribution centers on top of hundreds of units sitting in stores is not what you want. Certainly not heading in to January, at least. That may be an acceptable stock situation to have heading in to Black Friday. Stocks like that seem indicative of fairly severe channel stuffing, which would in turn indicate sell-through that's quite a bit lower than sell-in than one would normally expect.

Therefore, while I'm sure many will argue otherwise, I imagine that whatever Microsoft's current sell-in, their sell through will be substantially lower. Likely two million units or more, I'd say. That may not sound like much compared to the unsold stock I was estimating for Sony, but as I said, supply chains are actually measured in weeks, not units. At the rate they've been selling, 1.5M would probably last Sony around 6 weeks. At the rate MS have been selling — 6M/year — 2M units is enough stock to last them four months, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were sitting on even more than that, especially if their shipments really are up around the 11M mark.

To make matters worse, a lot of that unsold stock is likely sitting in foreign distribution centers, where it will take even longer to burn through. That's why I was saying they'll have a tough time maintaining their 2014 shipments in 2015; it seems most retailers now have enough stock to last them a good while — especially overseas — so it will be that much longer before they place another order, and when they do, the order will be that much smaller.

Another awesome post. I have a question that hopefully hasn't already been answered in the past couple pages since you posted this.

What's the point? If I'm Microsoft, why do I want to stuff the channels to pretend I'm selling better than I really am? It can't be for the consumers. Outisde of a tiny percent of them who pay attention to sales (like us), I feel like no one who is potentially buying an Xbox cares. Is it for shareholders? What is the point of playing this expensive retail stuffing game?

 

[TheRealTalker]

over 60 pages.... I need to do a lot of reading it seems


but I did see that new Bish Approved tag (man is that awesome)

 

[Fehyd]

Another awesome post. I have a question that hopefully hasn't already been answered in the past couple pages since you posted this.

What's the point? If I'm Microsoft, why do I want to stuff the channels to pretend I'm selling better than I really am? It can't be for the consumers. Outisde of a tiny percent of them who pay attention to sales (like us), I feel like no one who is potentially buying an Xbox cares. Is it for shareholders? What is the point of playing this expensive retail stuffing game?

Marketing mostly. "Overy 11 million xbox especially sold!*" *to retailers. Heck there are mainstream news sites that are reporting a resurgence of xbone sales comparing shipped vs sold-through numbers between the consoles.

It creates a false narrative that the gap is smaller than it really is, so conversely xbone must be doing better than it really is.

It does tend to have adverse effects with retailer relations, but MS has a long history of being too big to do anything about, retail wise.

 

[Amir0x]

lol at that bish approved title. Fucking amazing lol

 

[Zeuanimals]

The NFL one was the TV app, Surface use instead of iPads for the NFL. That was the 500 million deal.

The EA one was apparently 1 billion, Titanfall, FIFA ultimate, Plants versus Zombies Garden Warfare, Battlefield DLC, Madden. Not sure about that sum of money but they had a partnership for sure that I imagine EA won't be too willing to sign again.

The games are likely gonna sell better on the PS4 anyway (except maybe Madden), so EA's gonna make money from both MS giving it to them and the PS4 software sales. It's not like Sony's gonna strike up a $1bil deal with EA, it's pretty much free money for them. The question is, will MS offer them another deal?

Unless that $1bil deal was for the entire generation, then next-gen's anybody's guess.

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

According to NFL.com the deal was worth 400 million dollars.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...rike-deal-to-enhance-fans-tv-viewing-of-games



I have no idea how many of those planned features (fantasy football, smartglass, skype) are currently working. It seems like a complete waste of money since this the rest of the world is absolutely not interested in American football. Of course, the idea was not just to market the Xbox One but Surface tablets as well.

Suddenly Sony's $400m* Gaikai acquisition doesn't look that bad. It's currently paying dividens as it's part of every everything they're doing currently on the PS platform. Vue, Now, Remote Play, Shareplay they probably even used it for their Video Unlimited service.

Edit: million, I meant million lol

 

[Jimmyfenix]

The games are likely gonna sell better on the PS4 anyway (except maybe Madden), so EA's gonna make money from both MS giving it to them and the PS4 software sales. It's not like Sony's gonna strike up a $1bil deal with EA, it's pretty much free money for them. The question is, will MS offer them another deal?

Unless that $1bil deal was for the entire generation, then next-gen's anybody's guess.

Madden sold better on PS4 even with the xbox bundle

 

[STEaMkb]

At the risk of sounding daft, I think PlayStation is the spiritual home for millions of Commodore Amiga users. The Amiga was discontinued several months after PlayStation was introduced, and the writing was on the wall some time before that. Developers like Gremlin Graphics (Loaded) Ocean Software (Tunnel B1) Core Design (Tomb Raider) Psygnosis (Destruction Derby) made the migration feel natural.

I've not thought too deeply about this correlation before.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Suddenly Sony's $400 Gaikai acquisition doesn't look that bad. It's currently paying dividens as it's part of every everything they're doing currently on the PS platform. Vue, Now, Remote Play, Shareplay they probably even used it for their Video Unlimited service.

Sony bought Gaikai for $400? Damn that was a steal of the century!

 

[Grinchy]

Marketing mostly. "Overy 11 million xbox especially sold!*" *to retailers. Heck there are mainstream news sites that are reporting a resurgence of xbone sales comparing shipped vs sold-through numbers between the consoles.

It creates a false narrative that the gap is smaller than it really is, so conversely xbone must be doing better than it really is.

It does tend to have adverse effects with retailer relations, but MS has a long history of being too big to do anything about, retail wise.

It just seems so strange to me that they'd be ok with the cost of doing it (including pissing off retailers) just so that a few dudebros who read Kotaku might think the system is selling better than it really is. And then what? The assumption is that those readers will feel better about going and buying an Xbox for themselves?

I mean, I guess I can accept that but it seems like a really expensive way to market the product.

 

[Zeuanimals]

Madden sold better on PS4 even with the xbox bundle

Well fuck me sideways and call me Shrek.

I can't see what not signing another deal with MS would do for EA other than not give them free money. That is unless the advertisements and exclusive Xbox stuff for the games are taking away from a lot more PS4 sales for EA games, but I don't see why that would happen. But I'm not too knowledgeable about advertising and consumer trends, so who knows?

Edit: Wait, did Madden sell better in LTD or just for that one month it made headlines on the PS4?

 

[Ricky_R]

Suddenly Sony's $400 Gaikai acquisition.

BF deal? Daaayumm

 

[GHG]

It just seems so strange to me that they'd be ok with the cost of doing it (including pissing off retailers) just so that a few dudebros who read Kotaku might think the system is selling better than it really is. And then what? The assumption is that those readers will feel better about going and buying an Xbox for themselves?

I mean, I guess I can accept that but it seems like a really expensive way to market the product.

Its for the shareholders, nobody else.

 

[STEaMkb]

Huh? The XB1 and PS4 are nearly identical in that sense. The PS4 has an edge in GPU compute and memory bandwidth. The XB1 has an edge in CPU compute.

If you take the Xbox One GPU plus a sharp knife, and sliced the XBO GPU in half, that's how much more powerful the PlayStation 4 GPU is.

Considerably more than an "edge".

 

[TheRealTalker]

is it safe to say that the MS NFL deal was just money burnt away? Like the strategic things MS could've done with that money


I mean (like people have already stated) Sony bought Gaikai for around the same estimate and look how engrained Gaikai is with the current PS ecosystem

it is like night and day of good and bad business decisions

Tough to say. Haven't Surface tablets been selling a bit better? It's tough to measure mindshare gains through individual marketing deals.

forgot about surface..... yeah I wonder how this deal positively affected sales

of course a ton of other factors promoted surface as well

 

[BigDug13]

is it safe to say that the MS NFL deal was just money burnt away

Tough to say. Haven't Surface tablets been selling a bit better? It's tough to measure mindshare gains through individual marketing deals.

 

[jelly]

Tough to say. Haven't Surface tablets been selling a bit better? It's tough to measure mindshare gains through individual marketing deals.

Surface Pro 3 is actually good though which helps.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

I just don't get why Microsoft went back to the old price with the numbers looking like this. The only thing that makes sense in my head is that since Q1 is usually slow, then it doesn't matter if they don't sell that much, especially after winning Nov NPD (and likely winning Dec too), but if they really wanted to close the gap they would have stayed at US330.

Perhaps they're saving the re-drop for Holidays 2015 when Halo 5 comes out? That strategy certainly worked last time. In any case we'll have to wait until Feb NPD comes out to see if PS4 continues to build that gap or if there's any truth to the "Microsoft Momentum" theory.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I just don't get why Microsoft went back to the old price with the numbers looking like this. The only thing that makes sense in my head is that since Q1 is usually slow, then it doesn't matter if they don't sell that much, especially after winning Nov NPD (and likely winning Dec too), but if they really wanted to close the gap they would have stayed at US330.

Probably because they don't want to lose profits.

 

[EGM1966]

Huh? The XB1 and PS4 are nearly identical in that sense. The PS4 has an edge in GPU compute and memory bandwidth. The XB1 has an edge in CPU compute. Both machines are based on the same technology, from the same hot dog stand. The technology situation is completely at odds with the funky-ass Cell design vs. the competition (I honestly don't know what compelled Sony to release such ridiculously over-engineered hardware). The PS3's downfall was always its value proposition (something they struggled with throughout most of the previous generation). The XB1's downfall is that Microsoft shat all over their brand. Both these chains of events have contributed significantly to the PS4's success.

It's not as bad as PS3 vs 360 but the ESRAM and memory architecture on One vs unified faster memory on PS4 definately made itore challenging early on particularly as the SDK and controls for ESRAM were allegedly not great. Only latest SDK has really improved ability to leverage ESRAM I believe.

 

[Raist]

I just don't get why Microsoft went back to the old price with the numbers looking like this. The only thing that makes sense in my head is that since Q1 is usually slow, then it doesn't matter if they don't sell that much, especially after winning Nov NPD (and likely winning Dec too), but if they really wanted to close the gap they would have stayed at US330.

Perhaps they're saving the re-drop for Holidays 2015 when Halo 5 comes out? That strategy certainly worked last time. In any case we'll have to wait until Feb NPD comes out to see if PS4 continues to build that gap or if there's any truth to the "Microsoft Momentum" theory.

I think it's a strong indication that they've been taking a bit hit with these deals and can't afford to stay permanently at that price.