RockmanWhore
Member
Here is a ugly paint mock up according to the info given by the Alpha and the Omega :
Baki said:But this limits the amount of games that can be designed for the ARC. Most have to be basic because the DS3 is not a suitable alternatice to a nunchuck. This will potentially severely affect the "core" audience adoption of the device. We'd rather just play with the good ol' DS3.
SolidSnakex said:Then they should've thought about designing something that wasn't so costly. They already got themselves into enough shit with the initial price of the PS3, why then turn around and design a new control scheme that will also be expensive?
gofreak said:Well, Capcom for one doesn't seem to be concerned... I don't think most devs will be either. Allowing DS3 to be used as a nunchuck is the perfect way to ensure ubiquity, without forcing extra cost on the consumer. And if designing a core game, they can be fairly assured their target audience will have a nunchuck if they want a nunchuck and not a ds3.
RockmanWhore said:Here is a ugly paint mock up according to the info given by the Alpha and the Omega :
http://i49.tinypic.com/317f9fd.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
That is a hell of a mockup.
Baki said:How many people do you think will be interested in buying a "core" game which utilises the ARC. Especially if very few own a nunchuck.
gofreak said:You're not getting me. I don't think devs will have a problem supporting the nunchuck/ds3 in their core games.
Baki said:The EYE is probably dirt cheap. So is nunchuck + wand. But it all adds up. Basically, I definitely think they'll make about $5-7 if they sell wand+nunchuk+game @ 70 BUT if they sold the wand+eye+game at $60 they'd probably make the similar margins while selling the package at $10 lower to the consumer.
@60, SCE gets about $41 back. @70 they get around $51 back.
Baki said:I'm not referring to devs. But consumers.
I mean, as alternate control scheme it will do just fine (for a game). But as a sole control scheme (for a game). I'm not so sure.
SolidSnakex said:I believe Sony mentioned earlier that they'll market this as the new "main" controller ofr the PS3, if that's the case then the nunchuck should come with it.
SolidSnakex said:I just think that the nunchuck is a must. Add ons have always been a slippery slope in the industry. If you don't get it right the first time and you leave a sour taste with consumers then that's it. You don't get a second chance with that device. Which is a major reason why we really haven't seen too many add on devices over the years. I believe Sony mentioned earlier that they'll market this as the new "main" controller ofr the PS3, if that's the case then the nunchuck should come with it.
gofreak said:Sorry, I think I misunderstood and edited above.
But you seem to be moving on to another point again - solely Arc control schemes? No, I don't see that happening very much at all for core games. It'll be DS3 OR ds3/nunchuck+Arc. If a core customer isn't happy with the ds3 as a nunchuck for said games, Sony and devs can I think be fairly assured that this kind of player will pick a nunchuck up off their own bat.
They said it would be 'a' new standard controller 'alongside the DS3'. The latter bit works on a number of levels...both as indicating the DS3 isn't going anywhere, and suggesting the combination of the two in one control scheme.
DMeisterJ said:The reason is to not raise the price any higher than it has to go. And no, it wasn't meant to be held with one hand, but it's not like you can't do it. Have you ever played High Velocity Bowling? The DS3 wasn't meant to be held like you're supposed to when you play a game, but the whole game is based around it. Sony is no stranger to this.
SolidSnakex said:Then they should've thought about designing something that wasn't so costly. They already got themselves into enough shit with the initial price of the PS3, why then turn around and design a new control scheme that will also be expensive?
cakefoo said:
look like you having a local anaesthesia in some part in your handcakefoo said:http://i47.tinypic.com/29wocg4.gif
:lolcakefoo said:
cakefoo said:http://i47.tinypic.com/29wocg4.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]
Thank you for that. Not sure how holding it and using it with one hand is uncomfortable. Let it rest on your leg, and that's it. Any time I play the Wii I do the exact same thing... Who really stands up and plays Zelda or something with their hand holding the nunchuck in the air?
Answer: no one.
cakefoo said:http://i47.tinypic.com/29wocg4.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]
:lol :lol
I think that 60/$ por pseye + arc+nunchuck would be a reasonable price, or at least, it's the maximum that I would pay...
gofreak said:They said it would be 'a' new standard controller 'alongside the DS3'. The latter bit works on a number of levels...both as indicating the DS3 isn't going anywhere, and suggesting the combination of the two in one control scheme.
:lolcakefoo said:
Baki said:But yeah, this approach only makes sense if SIMPLE games are the main attraction. But if they implement motion controls in KZ3, then that means they are taking the core demographic seriously in regards to this controller. If thats the case, they NEED to bundle the nunchuck or they can kiss the core demographic goodbye (for the ARC).
:lol :lol :lol I love the crushing feeling of depression there is when you let that controller fall out of your hand.cakefoo said:
DMeisterJ said:I'm glad that you came back from the future and were able to tell us what everyone wanted. Some people, like myself, see no need for the wand, having two perfectly good DS3s laying around. I'll be using those. Damn the nuchuck.
And it is not uncomfortable.
If holding the DS3 with one hand is uncomfortable, you're doing it wrong. The correct word is 'inelegant'. Yes, it's not an elegant solution, but the comfortability is fine.
gofreak said:Why? It's not like the core's averse to spending more on their hobby.
I guarantee you that if KZ3 is released, most folks on GAF, for example, playing this with Arc will have bought a nunchuck.
I think what's far more important for core gamers is to have dev support for the nunchuck+Arc in those core games, for devs not to think twice about including schemes with nunchuck support where ncessary. The only way to that is to 1) bundle a nunchuck with every starter bundle at the expense of all, or 2) repurpose a controller everyone already has a lowest common denominator 'nunchuck', and keep the new nunchuck out of standard bundles with a lower price. I think they'll go with 2). They can rely on core folks to take care of themselves and get a nunchuck if it's wanted, while core devs can still design in the knowledge that everyone has a nunchuck of one kind or another.
Don't get me wrong - I'd LOVE for Sony to include a nunchuck with every bundle and not hike up the price. That'd be fantastic, so to a degree, yeah, I'm right behind this campaign to get it included as standard But in the absence of that (unrealistic?) scenario, I think what they're doing is the best tradeoff, and I certainly don't think it remotely spells catastrophe for Arc or Arc/nunchuck support in 'core' games.
spwolf said:I dont know why does the Sony need to offer Arc for some dirt cheap price... It will be priced so they can make some money on it.
They dont have to offer it for free... They will offer it for free with some family oriented games like eye pet or eye sports (well free for $60 or something).... But what would be the point of offering it with KZ3? Hey, you preffer to play KZ3 with it? Buy it separately.
What is the point of Arc being in hands of every PS3 owner, for "free"? I just dont get it.
cakefoo said:http://i47.tinypic.com/29wocg4.gif
spwolf said:I dont know why does the Sony need to offer Arc for some dirt cheap price... It will be priced so they can make some money on it.
spwolf said:They dont have to offer it for free... They will offer it for free with some family oriented games like eye pet or eye sports (well free for $60 or something).... But what would be the point of offering it with KZ3? Hey, you preffer to play KZ3 with it? Buy it separately.
What is the point of Arc being in hands of every PS3 owner, for "free"? I just dont get it.
How about using head tracking to move the camera and aiming using wand?Baki said:For the most part I agree.
Core games with optional ARC support = just fine.
BUT..Core games with ARC as a sole control scheme = Fucked. (maybe not completely)
But I don't expect a CORE game which uses ARC as a sole control scheme to sell more than 2M units if nunchuck is not widely adopted.
I already rest the DS3 in my lap when I play a game. All I'd be doing is letting go of it with the right hand and letting the controller conform to the contours of my lap a little differently. I've sat here twiddling with the stick and triggers and dpad for several minutes on several occasions when the motion controller is criticized, and have never felt awkward. I'm not very eager to find a $ solution to a problem that might not even exist.Elan tedronai said:you are kidding right? no one in their right minds will ever carry DS3 in one hand and the wand on the other. that's when gaming turns into a chore.
sony saved itself a huge embarrasement by releasing a nunchunk with this thing
i'm wondering, tooMan said:Where did 'truly outrageous' come from?
RockmanWhore said:Here is a ugly paint mock up according to the info given by the Alpha and the Omega :
cakefoo said:I already rest the DS3 in my lap when I play a game. All I'd be doing is letting go of it with the right hand and letting the controller conform to the contours of my lap a little differently. I've sat here twiddling with the stick and triggers and dpad for several minutes on several occasions when the motion controller is criticized, and have never felt awkward. I'm not very eager to find a $ solution to a problem that might not even exist.
wat?Suzzopher said:Surely core gamers will just stick with a Dualshock 3 and shun Arc/Natal?
Elan tedronai said:you might find the experience normal but i guarantee millions of gamers and casual ones at that will find the experience cumbersome.
How can you guarantee something like that?Elan tedronai said:you might find the experience normal but i guarantee millions of gamers and casual ones at that will find the experience cumbersome.
yurinka said:How about using head tracking to move the camera and aiming using wand?
I think the remaining (secondary) actions for the buttons of the nunchaku can be mapped to movements if needed, and that would fix the lack of the "left analog" at least for FPS / TPS.
It does look cool, but has problem design. When battery flat, and I will scream if I couldn't find the middle part.deepbrown said:Should've looked like this: http://www.walyou.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/ps3-magic-wand-motion-controller.jpg
yeeshgofreak said:
ichinisan said:Mostly spot on. Beneath the d-pad on the nunchuk there's a recessed concave black PS button. The Nunchuk seems to be almost as long as the wand. As for the wireless part, I don't think they communicate with each other but both individually with the PS3, so I imagine the dual set-up takes up 2 of the 7 Bluetooth slots.
Loudninja said:How can you guarantee something like that?
dogmaan said:It's nice to have the option though hey?
TTP said:So, overall, the whole set up has TWO Home buttons and TWO pair of X and O?
Elan tedronai said:c'mon man. seriously go look at that thread where they showed it in motion with RE. And those are hardcore gaf players. imagine how casual gamers wil feel
What does this big button look like? Do you mean the big globe on the end of the thing? Or is the big button somwhere else? I don't see it in the mock-up...unless it's that black thing that I thought was an analogue stick (only analogue stick on nunchuck then...)ichinisan said:Yep. Well for the Home buttons you'd need to connect/train each bluetooth device to the console so its not uncalled for. As for the X and O, yes they are doubled up.
From a mapping point of view I reckon that the T trigger and the Big Button on the wand will both map to R1 and R2. Then you've got the who DS3 mapped across the two devices (with some doubling of X and O). With just a wand your short the dpad/analog (so anything directional) and L1/L2.
I'm not going to get a chance to look into them or anything in the next week and with GDC right round the corner I don't think I'll have to.
All I can also report is that it is highly responsive and accurate (the quote I heard was "Like a quick Wii remote thats right every time!"). No words on lag measurements though, sorry.