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[Hawking Radiation]

They didn't cave. They came to a business agreement. Sorry you didn't know videogames were a business.

Quite a few in here who don't understand that concept.

and its quite entertaining watching them twist themselves into pretzels trying to push some anti-consumer agenda

 

[mckmas8808]

What a shit response. Here is just one example -

My kid goes to school and we have xbox in our house. They make friends with another child that has PS in their household. They make a third friend who has a switch. They all just want to play Fortnite and other games as they grow through their friendship over the years.

Nothing here from the gamers perspective is about corporate greed, walled gardens or profits. If you're a gaming company and have no interest in crossplay then you ain't getting my household dollars or kids time. I'm also not promoting you to other parents about how to save money with things like Gamepass so the kids can play a bunch of games together and try all sorts of games.

Some of you console fanboys are just thick as bricks.

The problem with this post is that you aren't acknowledging that Sony DID cross-play once they came to terms in an agreement that both parties liked. You are arguing against the wind pal.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

My kid goes to school and we have xbox in our house. They make friends with another child that has PS in their household. They make a third friend who has a switch. They all just want to play Fortnite and other games as they grow through their friendship over the years.

Crossplay is allowed on Fortnite. Do you even have a kid?

 

[Magic Carpet]

Epic pays the money to sony and in return epic makes a boat load of money back.
Epic no pay the money to apple and in return make no money back.
Seems this case is cut and dry.

 

[Spokker]

That's it. I still don't understand this thread. Why are they pissed again? Cross-play is allowed. They can play with their fucking (non-existent) "friends" on PS5. Why are the Xbox people so angry about this? I don't get it.

Epic made a deal with Sony. So what?

It's gossip, which can be fun, but this really has no value to me as a consumer, and would not result in me making better purchasing decisions. It's not news-worthy in my opinion and the issues represented in the emails are no longer relevant. It just comes down to, "Remember that one time Sony didn't do what we wanted?"

It's settled now, is what I'm saying.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Crossplay is allowed on Fortnite. Do you even have a kid?

I understand crossplay is enabled for games like Fortnite or Apex and many others. I game and so do my kids and their friends.

When I learn about shit deals and backhanded marketing "for the players" when in reality it's just corporate greed and walled gardens I'll call that out as a shitty practice. It's one of the many reasons I do not buy Sony/PS and game on PC, Xbox and Ninty instead.

Do you know how long and arduous it was for the Sony crossplay mindset to get with the times? What we see from these documents is the why behind it.

 

[Nubulax]

This is exactly right. We are talking about money changing hands because of a deal made between a couple of mega-rich corporations. Why are we pretending this sort of thing is new?

Right? Getting mad because Epic had to MAYBE give some more money from microtransactions to Sony because of a dip in revenue from said microtransactions due to crossplay being enabled.

 

[Spokker]

Because these. Sony also trying to bully cross platform companies into paying top up subsidies and also let Sony access to look at their books.

These are huge companies that can defend themselves and handle their own affairs. "Bullying" doesn't enter the equation here. It's an insult to real victims of bullying.

 

[Nubulax]

I understand crossplay is enabled for games like Fortnite or Apex and many others. I game and so do my kids and their friends.

When I learn about shit deals and backhanded marketing "for the players" when in reality it's just corporate greed and walled gardens I'll call that out as a shitty practice. It's one of the many reasons I do not buy Sony/PS and game on PC, Xbox and Ninty instead.

Do you know how long and arduous it was for the Sony crossplay mindset to get with the times? What we see from these documents is the why behind it.

Imagine thinking Microsoft and Nintendo are any better lol. And this is just from what is public knowledge who knows what behind the scene deals they are making too. Nintendo, the system where the games hardly EVER go on sale and are almost always FULL PRICE, including ports like Super Mario 3D All-Stars or games that were on WII-U. Or Microsoft with their long history of Corporate greed and anti consumerism. Microsoft, the company who started the whole pay for play online, still charging to play "free to play" games up until very recently, and lets not forget the xbox one release and everything around that. OH and also not wanting crossplay when their position in the console space was way more favorable to them with 360 but lets forget that

 

[93xfan]

> Asking publishers (that we complain about being greedy out of one side of our face) for compensation is anti-consumer (which I can bet all walled garden's do in one form or another, like you guessed it, Apple which these same people are cheering on over Epic)

> Buying a whole publisher and IPs that have been 3rd party for over 30 years, just business

Reports were that MS saved Bethesda from going to Amazon. If so, it's a good thing MS bought them.

As a person that grew up loving PlayStation for almost a full 4 generations, it baffles me why people are okay with

-no PS1 BC

-shutting down servers early

-Charging for the same DIGITAL PS2 game again because of trophies

-No effort to bring back more PS2 classics

-Missing comparable enhancements for gen 8 games

-Add to that the treatment/mismanagement of Socom, Killzone, Motorstorm, Driveclub, Team ICO, Gravity Rush, etc

-Charging $70 for games like Destruction All-Stars

I still love my PS3, but I'm passing on them for the foreseeable future. I'm sure you found a defense for all of these, but those are real reasons on why I'm not sticking with Sony.

 

[Topher]

When I learn about shit deals and backhanded marketing "for the players" when in reality it's just corporate greed and walled gardens I'll call that out as a shitty practice. It's one of the many reasons I do not buy Sony/PS and game on PC, Xbox and Ninty instead.

So you believe Microsoft and Sony are above "corporate greed and walled gardens"?

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Imagine thinking Microsoft and Nintendo are any better lol. And this is just from what is public knowledge who knows what behind the scene deals they are making too. Nintendo, the system where the games hardly EVER go on sale and are almost always FULL PRICE, including ports like Super Mario 3D All-Stars or games that were on WII-U. Or Microsoft with their long history of Corporate greed and anti consumerism. Microsoft, the company who started the whole pay for play online, still charging to play "free to play" games up until very recently, and lets not forget the xbox one release and everything around that

With respect to this thread cross platform and cross play Ninty are handling things better for the limited slice of what we see from the corporate contracts and dealings. I'll leave the MS talk for another topic, feel free to review my post history on such topics.

So you believe Microsoft and Sony are above "corporate greed and walled gardens"?

Left field there mate. Of course they wish for walled gardens with exclusives etc (standard business operations 101). In terms of cross play specifically I'll call it out as shit for any platform holder halting such a benefit to all platforms, devs, games/franchises and gamers alike. There isn't defending this in corporate interest above good for gaming.

Profit sharing with a platform holder e.g. Epic to Sony, sure go for it. I understand those sorts of deals. A straight up pay Sony because revenue dropped can go fuck itself. Sony holding games like Rocket League or Apex hostage based on Fortnite can also go fuck itself.

 

[mckmas8808]

Reports were that MS saved Bethesda from going to Amazon. If so, it's a good thing MS bought them.

As a person that grew up loving PlayStation for almost a full 4 generations, it baffles me why people are okay with

-no PS1 BC

-shutting down servers early

-Charging for the same DIGITAL PS2 game again because of trophies

-No effort to bring back more PS2 classics

-Missing comparable enhancements for gen 8 games

-Add to that the treatment/mismanagement of Socom, Killzone, Motorstorm, Driveclub, Team ICO, Gravity Rush, etc

-Charging $70 for games like Destruction All-Stars

I still love my PS3, but I'm passing on them for the foreseeable future. I'm sure you found a defense for all of these, but those are real reasons on why I'm not sticking with Sony.

"Reports" are all they were. We don't know if that was true or not. But it sure reads like a good story.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Reports were that MS saved Bethesda from going to Amazon. If so, it's a good thing MS bought them.

As a person that grew up loving PlayStation for almost a full 4 generations, it baffles me why people are okay with

-no PS1 BC

-shutting down servers early

-Charging for the same DIGITAL PS2 game again because of trophies

-No effort to bring back more PS2 classics

-Missing comparable enhancements for gen 8 games

-Add to that the treatment/mismanagement of Socom, Killzone, Motorstorm, Driveclub, Team ICO, Gravity Rush, etc

-Charging $70 for games like Destruction All-Stars

I still love my PS3, but I'm passing on them for the foreseeable future. I'm sure you found a defense for all of these, but those are real reasons on why I'm not sticking with Sony.

Awww, shit, we list warring now son!

 

[ethomaz]

Because it is? Everybody (including Playstation owners) get a worse experience because of not having cross play, in what world is it not anti-consumer?



Also it's hilarious everybody bringing up the Bethesda purchase because;

1. This article has nothing to do about Xbox or Bethesda

2. They're very clearly different to anybody who doesn't have an anti-Xbox mentality, acquisitions help the devs make better games (for whoever does it), Insomniac's games will be better because of the financial security of being owned by Sony, as will Bethesda games with Microsoft, and far less likely a studio is closed if it's acquired than if it's left on it's own. Acquisitions aren't anti-consumer because they're providing a better experience for their consumers, being against crossplay is a negative to Sony consumers too, that's a very key difference in this. But I guess people want to desperately spin everything so their favorite company looks good (and to be clear, Xbox/PC/Nintendo have the same proportion of those types of fans and it's just as annoying when they do it)

You get a worst experience with Crossplay.

 

[Topher]

Left field there mate. Of course they wish for walled gardens with exclusives etc (standard business operations 101). In terms of cross play specifically I'll call it out as shit for any platform holder halting such a benefit to all platforms, devs, games/franchises and gamers alike. There isn't defending this in corporate interest above good for gaming.

There really isn't anything "left field" about it. You are being a bit selective as to when you characterize something as "corporate greed" and when you say it is "standard business operations 101". If Sony were charging you for crossplay then yeah, I'd get being pissed, but they came to an agreement with Epic and you don't pay a thing. And so your kids have crossplay and you are no poorer for it.

 

[ethomaz]

Explain me how they satified the players by blocking them from playing with friends using other platforms. My god you're slow.

Sony never blocked your friends to buy a PlayStation and plays with you.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What a shit response. Here is just one example -

My kid goes to school and we have xbox in our house. They make friends with another child that has PS in their household. They make a third friend who has a switch. Next year they make a friend who plays on PC. They all just want to play Fortnite and other games as they grow through their friendship over the years.

Um, Fortnite is cross-play. They lose nothing right now.

Without this being revealed, nothing has changed other than people arguing over a mutually agreed upon deal between Sony and Epic. So again, what the fuck is the issue other than warring?

 

[ethomaz]

Only one platform is telling the biggest game in the world "Pay us or else we'll block people from playing with their friends on other platforms."

The platform is talking with the developer not you and your friends.

 

[ethomaz]

That's not what Sweeney said in court today:

"In certain circumstances Epic will have to pay additional revenue to Sony," said Sweeney. "If somebody were primarily playing on PlayStation, but paying on iPhone then this might trigger compensation."

It is the revenue from the MTX.

If the Sony cut from MTX in their first platform is lower than what they could get with the actual active players in their platform then Epic needs to compensate Sony.

If not Sony should be losing money with Crossplay.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

There really isn't anything "left field" about it. You are being a bit selective as to when you characterize something as "corporate greed" and when you say it is "standard business operations 101". If Sony were charging you for crossplay then yeah, I'd get that, but they came to an agreement with Epic and you don't pay a thing. And so your kids have crossplay and you are no poorer for it.

That's just a short sighted argument. The devs, studios, publishers pay for it. Why should they on one platform but not another? This is why we end up with some games support it and others don't. This is where business agreements become unfair to Indie or lesser devs/studios or just left out of the conversation due to revenue or legal restrictions.

How any gamer or dev doesn't simply want an open system for multi platform titles to have cross play or not is baffling.

The selectiveness comes from understanding a corporate investment or risk associated with a platform develop, launch and support. They deserve to have walled gardens for exclusives and reasons why their systems sell etc. Cross play isn't that. Timed exclusives aren't that. Actual investment in platforms or games is where I "select" a moral compass to enjoy a walled garden. Crap like what Sony is pulling for cross play is utter bullshit.

More power to Sony if they sell PS5s because Spidey or Ratchet kicks arse. Restricting gamers and making devs pay for it is stupid. So yes I'll selectively say that's crap.

Um, Fortnite is cross-play. They lose nothing right now.

Without this being revealed, nothing has changed other than people arguing over a mutually agreed upon deal between Sony and Epic. So again, what the fuck is the issue other than warring?

See above.

 

[ethomaz]

It is easy to understand.

Sony has 1 million active playerbase that without Crossplay generates $10 million per month via MTX.

With Cross-play they continue having 1 million player base but the revenue from MTX drops to $5 million per month.

Who will pay these $5 million lose with Cross-play? The part that wants Cross-play... so Sony needs to receive the difference every month that situation happens.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Never thought I'd see the day, where people are "upset" that the pubs/devs are not getting full revenue on the MTX models, when they agreed to the shared revenue deal (only if it drops) in the first place.

 

[Yselacrey00]

Sony never blocked your friends to buy a PlayStation and plays with you.

Lmao.

It's ok, is business. Just don't tell us please that "for the players" bs.

They raised the prices too, so I'm fully expecting for Sony to do some more anticonsumer moves.

 

[BeardGawd]

Sony never blocked your friends to buy a PlayStation and plays with you.

ethomaz 's ingenious idea is for everyone to buy every console in order to play the same game together.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

-Charging $70 for games like Destruction All-Stars

I see this all the time and yet the game was never released anywhere at 70$. They just gave it away on PS plus and then sold it for 20$. Plans changed.

Maybe you could find an example that actually happened in real life instead of repeating the same nonsense people write when they run out of ideas?

 

[Topher]

That's just a short sighted argument. The devs, studios, publishers pay for it. Why should they on one platform but not another? This is why we end up with some games support it and others don't. This is where business agreements become unfair to Indie or lesser devs/studios or just left out of the conversation due to revenue or legal restrictions.

How any gamer or dev doesn't simply want an open system for multi platform titles to have cross play or not is baffling.

The selectiveness comes from understanding a corporate investment or risk associated with a platform develop, launch and support. They deserve to have walled gardens for exclusives and reasons why their systems sell etc. Cross play isn't that. Timed exclusives aren't that. Actual investment in platforms or games is where I "select" a moral compass to enjoy a walled garden. Crap like what Sony is pulling for cross play is utter bullshit.

More power to Sony if they sell PS5s because Spidey or Ratchet kicks arse. Restricting gamers and making devs pay for it is stupid. So yes I'll selectively say that's crap.


See above.

A selective moral compass. lol....ok.

The only indies or "lesser" studios that are affected by this are those who are heavy into microtransactions. Those that are not won't have any "restrictions" at all. Devs who are just straight up selling their game don't have an issue.

Not sure who said they didn't "want an open system for multi platform titles to have cross play". But using the words "open system" at all with consoles is a bit silly. Regardless, if worrying about what happens in deals between mega-corps gets you hot then I hope the revelations from these court proceedings are light on news, for your sake.

 

[mckmas8808]

ethomaz 's ingenious idea is for everyone to buy every console in order to play the same game together.

Or.............just allow Sony to come up with some business deal where they get compensated for allowing cross play.

 

[Unrivaledx88]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Sony exec was a 100% right. What's in it for them? MS and Nintendo with their shitty userbases get to benefit from crossplay the most. MS was actually charging XBL Gold to play F2P games like Fortnite until just last week. So they were making money off F2P games in ways Sony wasn't while Sony was sharing their userbase with them. Userbase they spent billions to cultivate.

Epic countered with a bunch of perks to sweeten the deal which makes sense. This is just business. Xbox has a very engaged userbase who play a lot games, and invest a lot of money into their eco system. I highly doubt a F2P game like Fortnite needed the PS userbase on xbox. But Nintendo? They needed the PS users to keep those servers filling up every few seconds. Shouldn't Sony get a cut of the profits from switch for making sure they have enough players to actually play this game without waiting in the lobby for 10-15 minute after every death?

I really dont see this as evil Sony. It's actually the one thing I agree with jimbo on. It's insane to think that a platform holder would spend and lose billions on building an eco system only to give free access to that userbase.

this right here

 

[FranXico]

It's gossip, which can be fun, but this really has no value to me as a consumer, and would not result in me making better purchasing decisions. It's not news-worthy in my opinion and the issues represented in the emails are no longer relevant. It just comes down to, "Remember that one time Sony didn't do what we wanted?"

It's settled now, is what I'm saying.

Haven't you heard? Bringing up the past is only OK if you are using that to attack Evil Sony. Being reminded of any other company having been dicks (no matter how recent that is) is shot down as an argument. "They're changed now, they're the good guys now" LOL

 

[reksveks]

It does sound like that revenue split deal or something similar is active based off Tim Sweeney's comment in court.

 

[FranXico]

Just to be clear, I think this is about accessing player progression and MTX across platforms, not just cross-play by itself.

As usual, people are oversimplifying what the deal encompassed for the sake of console warring.

 

[reksveks]

Just to be clear, I think this is about accessing player progression and MTX across platforms, not just cross-play by itself.

As usual, people are oversimplifying what the deal encompassed for the sake of console warring.

It's about both, in order to get cross play they have to do this rev split and it seems like they are the only one.



Again, I am not talking about this whether its legal or understandable as a SIE stockholder. I still don't get the theoretical double payment to both external retailer 1 and Sony.

 

[reksveks]

Going after exclusive streaming rights? Makes sense.

Can you show me where it says exclusive streaming rights? I haven't seen that but if so, that's a shit move from Microsoft and it shouldn't be the way that they boost xcloud.

I have only heard them say streaming rights which doesn't mean it has to be exclusive.

 

[DenchDeckard]

You know, the biggest problem we have with all thing on this planet is when we see some bullshit theres Always some bullshit finger pointing tit for tat "but look what these guys did, that was bad too" instead of addressing any problems.

we are too aligned to products, arguing while the fat cats at the top are sat laughing eating lobster laughing at our insignificant asses

 

[captainraincoat]

It's about both, in order to get cross play they have to do this rev split and it seems like they are the only one.



Again, I am not talking about this whether its legal or understandable as a SIE stockholder. I still don't get the theoretical double payment to both external retailer 1 and Sony.

No real positive way you can spin that….Sony have really lost touch with their audience

 

[Kerotan]

Can't tell who's more evil EPIC or Sony, Sweeney or Jim Ryan?!

MS. They showed their true colours when they were only matching PlayStation. Imagine what they'd be like if they were dominating like ps4, switch or PS5.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

No real positive way you can spin that….Sony have really lost touch with their audience

Who's the audience in this situation?

 

[reksveks]

No real positive way you can spin that….Sony have really lost touch with their audience

Don't think a large part of the audience don't care yet. If epic decides to remove cross play for Sony only, maybe but might be a net positive for Sony.

 

[Outrunner]

MS. They showed their true colours when they were only matching PlayStation. Imagine what they'd be like if they were dominating like ps4, switch or PS5.

So much this

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

No real positive way you can spin that….Sony have really lost touch with their audience

Seems to me you don't understand anything that has been discussed here.

 

[Menzies]

You know, the biggest problem we have with all thing on this planet is when we see some bullshit theres Always some bullshit finger pointing tit for tat "but look what these guys did, that was bad too" instead of addressing any problems.

we are too aligned to products, arguing while the fat cats at the top are sat laughing eating lobster laughing at our insignificant asses

Great post. This is how we've become so divided. People largely subscribe to ideologies instead of having a position on individual issues. There's a see no evil, hear no evil that has permeated through society, because their beliefs are so strong when they've aligned themselves to 'the good guys'.

 

[93xfan]

Awww, shit, we list warring now son!

As a PlayStation fan, are you happy to see Sony not listening to their fans ?

 

[93xfan]

I see this all the time and yet the game was never released anywhere at 70$. They just gave it away on PS plus and then sold it for 20$. Plans changed.

Maybe you could find an example that actually happened in real life instead of repeating the same nonsense people write when they run out of ideas?

My mistake. Didn't realize it had changed.

Still not happy with a $10 increase for some next gen games. Won't be happy if MS does it either.

 

[skit_data]

During all this time it was free to play on Sonys platform. No need for PS+.
This was not the case with a certain other console maker. Not to go into whataboutism and things have changed recently but... Is it really Sony who is the greediest out of the bunch?

 

[yazenov]

Selective rage. When your favorite company does some shady deals its ok you have hundreds of reasons to justify it but when it's the other company you cry foul. It's always the case with some of you.

 

[SoraNoKuni]

Woah! More marketing deals!

Things that happen behind closed doors in every company! Woah, such bad people they are targeting profits, woah.

More and more "leaks", that's getting even more suspicious each day, it's apparent the FUD wars have begun, hope people can discern and can think critically.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

Selective rage. When your favorite company does some shady deals its ok you have hundreds of reasons to justify it but when it's the other company you cry foul. It's always the case with some of you.

No.
Im just an adult and work in a company that does similar deals.
Its called business.

 

[jhjfss]

I want more laundry aired.

 

[Menzies]

Woah! More marketing deals!

Things that happen behind closed doors in every company! Woah, such bad people they are targeting profits, woah.

More and more "leaks", that's getting even more suspicious each day, it's apparent the FUD wars have begun, hope people can discern and can think critically.

Not sure I'm reading this correctly.

You're suggesting that this isn't a legitimate subpoenaed court document, exposed via the Epic v Apple trial taking place currently, and that it's some made up story?