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Sony cuts PS5 production by 4 million units

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Jon Neu

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To be honest and if mods are honest , all this bad yield stuff in relation to that leak is starting to look like a possibility... but I am very interested what went on ..

No console warrioring at all , and if you have open discussions, my opinion is that this also a topic for a discussion.

But that’s me .
This is obviously something that should be allowed to discuss.

And again, I have never claimed that the PS5 is a 9TF console now. Which is the baneable offense.

Maybe they did, maybe they didnt its all speculation on your part right now, you have no idea what their plans are / were 11 million units in launch window is no slouch and to be honest if they already have 10 million to ship, they have time to produce more.

We have no idea what the xbox yields are right now, they probably have a yield rate failures but they are repurposing for the xss most likely, ultimately what it will come down to is sales, we will know how either have fared this time next year, thats when the dust will have settled in all of this.
The number of PS5 units made is huge. I don't see any problem with that. I doubt they will have problems in the future.

As other used has pointed out, there's always this claims of "not enough consoles" so people run to the stores to buy one. Marketing 101.
 
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kuncol02

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It's a smaller die with significantly cut down CU counts.

It's not just an XSX die with disabled CUs.

XSX die is 197mm² where as the XSX is something like 360mm².
Huh? That makes no sense. Why would they design new one when they could use leftover chips. Were they afraid that there will not be enough of faulty chips to use or what?
Anyway I stand corrected.
 

Ar¢tos

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The Series X doesn't have a frequency that high, so I'm sure they are more steady.

Seems that Sony panicked when they discovered that MS was 12 teraflops and boosted from 9 to 10 teraflops in a desperate last effort. And the yields are suffering from it.

It certainly is weird that so many yields are falling and it was certainly weird that the most reliable leaks where claiming a 9 teraflop PS5.
What a bunch of bullshit.
Such significant change in frequency would delay production for at least 6 months for testing purposes, since complex chips at 7nm take 4-5 months to manufacture.
If you aren't willing to inform yourself about things please stop spewing nonsense and FUD.

Frequency is high because there is smartshift to allow it. There would be zero need to add smartshift if the goal was to keep the frequency under 2ghz.
Or Smartshift was also a last minute decision in response to MS??
 

jimbojim

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To be honest and if mods are honest , all this bad yield stuff in relation to that leak is starting to look like a possibility... but I am very interested what went on ..

No console warrioring at all , and if you have open discussions, my opinion is that this also a topic for a discussion.

But that’s me .

It also baffles me how MS seems to have the hardware stable as supposed to Sony a hardware company, but that MS dropped the ball on Software, a software company.

Interesting start of a new gen. Would make great book material for sure .
Bloomberg surely implies that Sony can't produce PS5 that fast and that much. That's not a problem with console. 11 mil. is above their previous target, though

 

SatansReverence

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Huh? That makes no sense. Why would they design new one when they could use leftover chips. Were they afraid that there will not be enough of faulty chips to use or what?
Anyway I stand corrected.
More chips per wafer.

At 360mm you might have 79 chips on a wafer, some of which won't be usable. At 197 you could virtually double potential chips per wafer while having more of them be usable.
 
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vdopey

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The number of PS5 units made is huge. I don't see any problem with that. I doubt they will have problems in the future.

As other used has pointed out, there's always this claims of "not enough consoles" so people run to the stores to buy one. Marketing 101.
Ok so why are you making it into a big deal and then using it to state its because of high core clock frequencies and then using that as a platform to spread concern about 9TF boosted to 10 ?
 

FranXico

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Tests are from May 2019 IIRC. Yes, RDNA 2 exists surely
The leak is from May 2019, and contained miscellaneous test data potentially spanning about a year worth of tests on several different chips.
The repo got updated later on, but not by the original source.

There's just not enough up-to-date information in there regarding consoles to draw conclusions.
 

Jon Neu

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What a bunch of bullshit.
Such significant change in frequency would delay production for at least 6 months for testing purposes, since complex chips at 7nm take 4-5 months to manufacture.
If you aren't willing to inform yourself about things please stop spewing nonsense and FUD.

Frequency is high because there is smartshift to allow it. There would be zero need to add smartshift if the goal was to keep the frequency under 2ghz.
Or Smartshift was also a last minute decision in response to MS??
Every console design it's always designed with room to improve in "the last second". MS already did it this gen with the Xbox One and it was much much more later on than what we are arguing here.

I mean, how many months have passed already since the official PS5 specs reveal? Oh, 6 months already!

There would be zero need to add smartshift if the goal was to keep the frequency under 2ghz.
What?

I thought smartshift was the future and the superior choice design.
 
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jimbojim

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MS already did it this gen with the Xbox One and it was much much more later on than what we are arguing here.

What MS did is last minute. Sony surely planned variable clocks from beginning. Their cooling solution is patented in 2018 for that. So no, this is isn't last minute thing. Cut the crap
 

THE:MILKMAN

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Still can't shake of the iffy timing in all of this just over day before the big event. First a Delta Airlines boss sharing customer info and now "yield issues" when they still plan to ship a record number of units.

Gotta love the drama!
 

Ar¢tos

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Every console design it's always designed with room to improve in "the last second". MS already did it this gen with the Xbox One and it was much much more later on than what we are arguing here.

I mean, how many months have passed already since the official PS5 specs reveal? Oh, 6 months already!



What?

I thought smartshift was the future and the superior choice design.
Stop trolling.
Smartshift is a different and alternative way to design a chip based on power consumption /thermals. It's neither better or worse. It will always depend on how it is used.
It's possible to make a bad or good chip design with fixed frequencies too.
 
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Allandor

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Bloomberg surely implies that Sony can't produce PS5 that fast and that much. That's not a problem with console. 11 mil. is above their previous target, though

No. 11m till march is not above the 10m till december (end of 2020, not fiscal year 2020).

Like I also wrote in the past, I wouldn't surprise me if they have production issues.
Small chip (ok that is not really a risk) but with high frequencies and a fixed power-target are many variables.
Normally a GPU or CPU these days has boost-frequencies it might never really reach. But you can see them as a buffer. Also (especially AMD) delivers more power to the Chips as most need. Therefore you can undervolt many chips (Ryzen & AMD GPUs) but not all. This is also a measure to increase the output of useable chips.
And if everything fails, CPUs and GPUs get partially deactivated and downclocked and sold as lower end components.
Yes, the GPU of the PS5/XSX chip has extra compute units to increase the output of useable chips, but frequencies are predefined. So they must reach them at "any" cost.

I can imagine, that Sony gave the PS5 chip higher voltages as most chips needed just so they can use more chips. Therefore the cooling solution must be big enough, which would also explain why the case is so big. But this is something that can get much better over time in the production lifecycle and maybe we get a slim PS5 sooner than expected.
 
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kuncol02

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More chips per wafer.

At 360mm you might have 79 chips on a wafer, some of which won't be usable. At 197 you could virtually double potential chips per wafer while having more of them be usable.
But they already have faulty XSX chips. They don't need to produce them. They are side product (or actually waste) of XSX chips production. That makes sense only when they expect to sell more way more XSS than XSX consoles.
 

Bitmap Frogs

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Are we really back to github and 9tf and last minute changes? Couldn't wait for the opportunity huh.

Production still exceeds PS4.

Aren't you people tired of doubting and talking misinformation about PS5 only to be proving wrong every time? Can't wait for Wednesday.
 

Jon Neu

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Bad yields are a historical reality in chip manufacturing. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of some FUD peddling.
As low as a 50% is a disaster, no matter how hard you try to damage control it.

What MS did is last minute. Sony surely planned variable clocks from beginning. Their cooling solution is patented in 2018 for that. So no, this is isn't last minute thing. Cut the crap
I am not the one saying is a last minute thing. It's people claiming that they can't change things at "the last minute".

And I'm just saying: A) things can be changed at the last minute and B) Sony didn't change things at the last minute, but months and months ago.

It's no secret that both companies react to each other. And a 12 teraflop Xbox vs a 9 teraflop PS5 would have been too much of a difference and a PR disaster for Sony.

I can easily see how Sony would boost the PS5 frequency as much as the console design could to shorten the gap once they knew the Xbox Series X was 12TF.

They didn't redesign the entire console.

Stop trolling.
It's neither better or worse.
But that's not what the pro Sony armchair developers of GAF have been saying since it was announced that the PS5 had smartshift.

They say is the superior design choice and that is the future for next hardware. Some even claimed that the next Xbox is going to have it.

Sony's always the best, you see.
 

SatansReverence

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Those were pure cpu wafers. APUs are more complex since they incorporate gpu designs and the interconnection buses. Have you ever noticed zen apu's use previous generation zen designs instead of the cutting edge?

On top of that these are the first runs of RDNA2.

AMD APU yields were already starting off at 87%.

Granted this is at a small die size, but even at 360mm² this wouldn't be much worse than 70% yields. Sony getting 50% is just plain bad.
 
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CeeJay

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But they already have faulty XSX chips. They don't need to produce them. They are side product (or actually waste) of XSX chips production. That makes sense only when they expect to sell more way more XSS than XSX consoles.
I think you answered your own question
 

vdopey

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The concern trolling is strong in this thread. Custom APU, custom I/O built into the APU first ever runs of a new gpu architecture set to build 11 Million units but yeah concern.
 
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Cerberus_X

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Seems that Sony panicked when they discovered that MS was 12 teraflops and boosted from 9 to 10 teraflops in a desperate last effort. And the yields are suffering from it.

It certainly is weird that so many yields are falling and it was certainly weird that the most reliable leaks where claiming a 9 teraflop PS5.
Lol stop embarrassing yourself there fanboy, that’s not how things work in the real world.

You should be more worried what MS are doing than Sony, if anything the PR for Sony is at an all time high but the same cant be said for MS.
 
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Ar¢tos

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As low as a 50% is a disaster, no matter how hard you try to damage control it.



I am not the one saying is a last minute thing. It's people claiming that they can't change things at "the last minute".

And I'm just saying: A) things can be changed at the last minute and B) Sony didn't change things at the last minute, but months and months ago.

It's no secret that both companies react to each other. And a 12 teraflop Xbox vs a 9 teraflop PS5 would have been too much of a difference and a PR disaster for Sony.

I can easily see how Sony would boost the PS5 frequency as much as the console design could to shorten the gap once they knew the Xbox Series X was 12TF.

They didn't redesign the entire console.



But that's not what the pro Sony armchair developers of GAF have been saying since it was announced that the PS5 had smartshift.

They say is the superior design choice and that is the future for next hardware. Some even claimed that the next Xbox is going to have it.

Sony's always the best, you see.
MS armchair devs have also been shouting "but VRS" non stop as if it was better than chocolate and sex and so far we haven't seen anything even worth mentioning...
 

pawel86ck

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Strange, PS5 has already 4 CUs disabled and there are still yields issues. Maybe Sony should consider downclocking GPU just to increse yields, 2.2GHz is just too extreme.
 

Ass of Can Whooping

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Short term yield issues aren't going to affect the price

And no it's not 50% anymore as per the article
 

turtlepowa

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I know you can't say that the PS5 is *censored*TF on GAF.

But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's 10TF because they boosted the frequency to shorten the disadvantage against MS 12TF. And that boosts seems to have come back to bite them in the ass with the yields falling at an espectacular rate.
There you go buddy, like i said: The number of the devil. See you Sep 29, 2020
 
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NEbeast

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Where is this 15 million coming from? Didn't they increase production TO 11 million, that's the last we heard. Please, don't tell me this is the guy who said he had a megatron and it was that tiny saga handheld. I'll believe it when there are reliable sources.
 

Ryujin

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I find this news of 50% yields only to be a little contradictory to other things we have heard, AMD are using TSMC for their production and last I heard they had quite good yields on a fairly mature 7nm process. Didn't we hear conflicting information to this a few weeks/months ago that yields were much better than expected for PS5 so they were upping production or something like that?

Maybe something changed in the meantime, I don't know but it seems strange.

Of course if the 50% failure rate is true then that is surprising but bad news
 
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GymWolf

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Gamestop already has my money for the preorder, if they can't guarantee a ps5 at launch i'm gonna burn that place 🕺
 
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jimbojim

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This was quite literally proven wrong by Sony themselves 5 posts above... A post you even quoted...
Produced 10 mil. till end of 2020, shipped 10 mil. till end of March. Read it
No. 11m till march is not above the 10m till december (end of 2020, not fiscal year 2020).

Like I also wrote in the past, I wouldn't surprise me if they have production issues.
Small chip (ok that is not really a risk) but with high frequencies and a fixed power-target are many variables
No, shipped 10 mil. till end of March. Yes, their 11 mil. forecast is above that. New Bloomberg article surely implied production rate issue. So, Sony can't produce that many PS5s in such a short time. Btw. in same time frame PS4 was shipped around 6 mil. till March 2014. So, 11 mil. is huge compared to that
 

Bitmap Frogs

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AMD APU yields were already starting off at 87%.

Granted this is at a small die size, but even at 360mm² this wouldn't be much worse than 70% yields. Sony getting 50% is just plain bad.
That's 87% is with older designs, essentially recycling cpu and gpu designs. This time it's a new gpu design with current gen cpu cores. Then factor in the binning of does that can't hit 2.2ghz and you easily get to 50%.

Which I agree it's not a good number but it's nothing to do extraordinary given the circumstances.
 

MHubert

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"Running a GPU at 2GHz was looking like an unreachable target, with the old fixed frequency strategy..."
Not to mention the fact, they indeed were testing at 2GHz as known by the GitHub leaks.
How does this in any shape or form suggest that Sony opted for a smartshift solution at the last minute?
 
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jimbojim

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I could read it a thousand times, doesn't change the fact that Sony clearly wasn't aiming for variable clocks from the start.
Yes, they did planed it. Sony patented cooling solution in 2018. Before filling patent, there a numerous test before. Surely for clocks higher than 2 GHz. Stop spreading FUD about 9 TF PS5.
 
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