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Sony cuts PS5 production by 4 million units

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pawel86ck

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As low as a 50% is a disaster, no matter how hard you try to damage control it.
Agree, 50% waste is not good no matter how you look at it. Also I wonder how reliable PS5 will be if yields are so defective? PS4 was fairy reliable, but it was build with weaker components, while PS5 will use more high end components like PS3 did and I dont have good memories with launch PS3 reliability. It's almost impossibe to find now working PS3 launch model that hasnt been repaired, YLOD during the years has affected almost every launch PS3, but thanks good PS3 slim was redesigned and much more reliable.
 

-Arcadia-

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Can someone C&P the article for me? Bloomberg is retarded, and I hit my free article limit. Many thanks if you can.
 

Rikkori

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This was obvious to anyone with even half a clue. Getting a GPU to clock that high was going to be really difficult and few chips would achieve it, hell that's golden sample 5700 XT territory on water so for them to put into an SOC was crazy. They probably figure it works out in the long run (which is probably true) as the manufacturing matures and so they get their 10 TF marketing bullet point.
This would've been a great opportunity for Microsoft to come swooping in and capitalise on what's going to be unfulfilled demand by showcasing a strong launch line-up since their SOCs are not gonna face such yield issues, but of course in classic fashion MS just flubs it.

A shitshow all around.
 

SatansReverence

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Yes, they did planed it. Sony patented cooling solution in 2018. Before filling patent, there a numerous test before. Surely for clocks higher than 2 GHz. Stop spreading FUD about 9 TF PS5.
Patents mean less than nothing.

Again, cerny himself confirmed they were targeting 2ghz fixed frequency. Github leaks corroborated it. Poor yields essentially confirm it.
 

jimbojim

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It baffles me that some here seeing this a problem that Sony reduced production capacities to 11 mil. from 15 mil. and shipping that amount of units till end of March 2021. Bloomberg article surely implied a production rate issues. 11 mil. is A LOT. Compared to PS4, PS4 shipped 6 mil. till March 2014. And that was considered yields are good. Why suddenly 11 mil. is the problem??? That's almost 100% increase compared to PS4
 
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jimbojim

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Patents mean less than nothing.

Again, cerny himself confirmed they were targeting 2ghz fixed frequency. Github leaks corroborated it. Poor yields essentially confirm it.
Patents means that it was tested. And year implies in 2018. So, Cerny surely implied that they were testing cooling solution to go above 2GHz in 2018.
And Github test ( May 2019 ) and therefore, wrong about PS5. Stop spreading FUD or you will be reported. How the hell 11 mil. is a problem now? That's huge amount of units, almost 100% more compared to PS4. And PS4s yields were considered as good that year.
 
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THE:MILKMAN

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It baffles me that some here seeing this a problem that Sony reduced production capacities to 11 mil. from 15 mil. and shipping that amount of units till end of March 2021. Bloomberg article surely implied a production rate issues. 11 mil. is A LOT. Compared to PS4, PS4 shipped 6 mil. till March 2014. And that was considered yields are good. Why suddenly 11 mil. is the problem??? That's almost 100% increase compared to PS4
There is a little confusion around shipped vs produced that Zhuge touched upon. PS4 likely made ~10 million in the same period and shipped ~7.5 million. Even so PS5, even at the revised number, is slightly ahead apple to apples.
 

SatansReverence

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Patents means that it was tested.
I could quite literally file 30 patents before I go to bed tonight. They mean absolutely nothing.

How the hell 11 mil. is a problem now?
11mill isn't the problem, it's the 50% die failures.

You don't change your software roadmap in a heartbeat because of your competition.
Except both Sony and Microsoft have done exactly that.

PS4 4gb to 8gb
Xbox one up clocks

etc
 
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jimbojim

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I could quite literally file 30 patents before I go to bed tonight. They mean absolutely nothing.
Patent about cooling solution for PS5 means nothing? There was no other cooling solution patented by Sony that year other than PS5. So, yeas, it means something
 

MHubert

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It doesn't, they are trolling. You don't change your software roadmap in a heartbeat because of your competition (unless you are willing to face significant delays), much less hardware.
Exactly, I refuse to believe that any enthusiast can have such a flawed understanding about large scale hardware production.

Patents mean less than nothing.

Again, cerny himself confirmed they were targeting 2ghz fixed frequency. Github leaks corroborated it. Poor yields essentially confirm it.
No he didn't. You are basically making this up.
And a patent can mean a great deal if it seems like they are actually using it
 
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jimbojim

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This is last minute thing. Upclock the X1 during preorders. But Sony planned PS5 design and variable frequencies around that cooling solution since beginning. You can't add variable frequencies just like that. That needs a long testings how variable freq. would fork under some heavy situation in games, power reduction, temp. reduction etc. That can't be a last minute thing at all.
 

Andodalf

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Exactly, I refuse to believe that any enthusiast can have such a flawed understanding about large scale hardware production.


No he didn't. You are basically making this up.
And a patent can mean a great deal if it seems like they are actually using it
In his talk He said that 2ghz was what they found to be the farthest they could push without going to a variable res iirc
 
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prinz_valium

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How does this in any shape or form suggest that Sony opted for a smartshift solution at the last minute?
It does not necessarily. But the question was if 2GHz was quite impossible to achieve with a traditional design or not.
It depends what you think about last minute. I guess it happend late in the development cycle, but not last minute.
But that's just my personal guess.
 

MHubert

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In his talk He said that 2ghz was what they found to be the farthest they could push without going to a variable res iirc
Please explain to me why this suggests that they were targeting 2GHz?

It does not necessarily. But the question was if 2GHz was quite impossible to achieve with a traditional design or not.
It depends what you think about last minute. I guess it happend late in the development cycle, but not last minute.
But that's just my personal guess.
No, the initial claim was that Sony upped the clockspeed from 2.0GHz to 2.2GHz late in the development cycle (which I consider 'last minute') and essentially rebooted their initial architecture because they felt intimidated by MS. Those were the claims you replied to.
 

Panajev2001a

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Here you go NPCs.


Back to the spec thread circle jerk with you.
Very early on, before they decided to change to a abstract Power units optimised strategy and adding Smartshift they had trouble hitting 2 GHz... and that early on puts them with a lot lot younger and less refined manufacturing process.

They are not idiots thinking you can create a design based on the hope you can massively increase clockspeed over the projections based on some last minute manufacturing process or chip layout optimisation.

I know.... less sexy than calling it an 8 TFLOPS design made it look to appear as if it were a 10.23 TFLOPS one... ;).
 

Ayoli

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I mean so far the only games (that I know of) at launch that I'm interested in are Outriders and Godfall so yeah... not exactly rushing out to buy one myself, if I can't get one at launch that is.
 

CatLady

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It baffles me that some here seeing this a problem that Sony reduced production capacities to 11 mil. from 15 mil. and shipping that amount of units till end of March 2021. Bloomberg article surely implied a production rate issues. 11 mil. is A LOT. Compared to PS4, PS4 shipped 6 mil. till March 2014. And that was considered yields are good. Why suddenly 11 mil. is the problem??? That's almost 100% increase compared to PS4
I think a lot of what people here see as a problem is the reason WHY they had to cut production. i.e. the 50% failure rate of their 2.23 over-clocked chip.

BTW: it's not just Xbox fanboys, investors are concerned as well. Sony stock took a big dip on this news yesterday. are investors NeoGAF concern trolls too?

 
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Andodalf

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I saw this coming. I also believe that MS will face the same issue
I’d assume the XSS should have the best yields of all, with the least CUs and lowest clocks. I’d assume that total XSS and XSX production is similar to PS5, but it should have less of a problem with a good number of their consoles being produced being the weaker model.

Just comparing the XSX and PS5, I can see them having very different production outcomes, XSX is all about the die not having binning issues due to CU count, whereas the PS5 is about clock speed. The SX probably isn’t the biggest BIG NAVI out there, but the PS5 may well be the fastest, leading to more chips not being fast enough and being a lower bin.
 

Veysetia

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This is just initially, and probably so they can clear the backlog and make some much needed adjustments
 

Panajev2001a

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Who said anything about 8tf?
Someone was quoting some BS about it being really an 8 TFLOPS design until the fake clockspeed strategy was put into work or something nonsensical. I will hound the exact quote if it is still there and I want to keep track of all the tin foil hatted conspiracy theorists around PS5’s variable clocks solution...
 

prinz_valium

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Please explain to me why this suggests that they were targeting 2GHz?


No, the initial claim was that Sony upped the clockspeed from 2.0GHz to 2.2GHz late in the development cycle (which I consider 'last minute') and essentially rebooted their initial architecture because they felt intimidated by MS. Those were the claims you replied to.
Didn't follow the conversation that far back. My mistake if that was the case. But the post I made this post in response to was the following one :

Cerny himself stated they were targeting and struggling to hit 2ghz.
 

TheMan

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Unless Sony has some exclusive bangers to reveal tomorrow, I don’t think launch shortages are going to be that painful anyway, especially if you have a decent PC. As long as I can play cyberpunk and Valhalla I’m good.
 
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Kumomeme

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I think a lot of what people here see as a problem is the reason WHY they had to cut production. i.e. the 50% failure rate of their 2.23 over-clocked chip.

BTW: it's not just Xbox fanboys, investors are concerned as well. Sony stock took a big dip on this news yesterday. are investors NeoGAF concern trolls too?

nah it probably jump again after wednesday event, depend on how Sony steer their ship.
 

Panajev2001a

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I think a lot of what people here see as a problem is the reason WHY they had to cut production. i.e. the 50% failure rate of their 2.23 over-clocked chip.

BTW: it's not just Xbox fanboys, investors are concerned as well. Sony stock took a big dip on this news yesterday. are investors NeoGAF concern trolls too?

Judging the impact of rumours based on one day of stock fluctuation... sure ;).

Still, investors may be worried or not for the fact that a hot and in demand product may generate less money than it could have with more units available. Xbox fanboys are in jt just to dance and piss on the grave for PS5 they dug a long time ago :p.
 
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RayHell

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People focusing on the wrong things in here, you shouldn't be worried about if you can get one or not, you should be worried about what it's going to cost.

A 50% yield rate? That's abysmal, that's probably the lowest yields of a console in history. Also this will probably net the most unstable console in history which also has the highest failure rate relative to time.
You know what yield rate means right? If so, your last comment make no sense. SoC are tested to perform at speed and temperature required with a good buffer. 50% of them doesn't make the cut. The rest is perfectly stable.
 
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semicool

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I know you can't say that the PS5 is 9TF on GAF.

But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's 10TF because they boosted the frequency to shorten the disadvantage against MS 12TF. And that boosts seems to have come back to bite them in the ass with the yields falling at an espectacular rate.
Wait ...why is that bannable? I've think I've been banned before for mentioning that number I think and I didn't know why? It seems similar to mention MS increased Xbox One CPU clockspeeds in 2013 in response to Sony's TF advantage on the PS4? I think MS also increased the clockspeed of their GPU and also available RAM after modifying amount reserved for Kinect performance if I remember right?

 
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RayHell

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People are funny trying to downplay Sony for the 50% Yields. What's Intel yield on the 10900k you think? PS5 is just bining for the best APU frequency/stability and thats expected since they don't have lower clock speed variant of the console. 50% might be lower than expected but It has nothing to do with Sony. AMD is responsible for the estimation of the yield when Sony gave them the contract.
 

REDRZA MWS

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I'd boost production too if yields were 50%. Expect those costs to be passed to gamers.


Large, loud and considering such a bad yield, watch out for launch batches of PS5s. Don't be surprised if there's YLOD kind of thing. Wait till Sony makes more stable consoles.
This is ridiculous, for a company in this business as long as Sony, a hardware maker of all type of devices, decades of making hardware. The PS4 and PRO were ridiculously loud.

It just seems to me they did in fact get caught with their pants down by MS and AMD as far as “power”, and then decided to just run the chip as high a clock as possible to close the gap. If they don’t have a 280mm liquid cooler in this thing we may just be looking at yet again best case loud and annoying, worse case hardware failure. I hope im wrong.
 
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RayHell

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Wait ...why is that bannable?
Let's say we find a statement on some old code on GitHub that says your penis is 3 inches and afterwards it has been officially measured to be 6 inches. But the people still refer to you has the 3 inches guy because it makes them feel their 6.5 inches is even bigger.

That's bannable
 
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semicool

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Let's say we find a statement on some old code on GitHub that says your penis is 3 inches and afterwards it has been officially measured to be 6 inches. But the people still refer to you has the 3 inches guy because it makes them feel their 6.5 inches is even bigger.

That's bannable
I'm not following. Increasing clockspeeds is a common industry practice. It's even common to have boost and max clockspeeds on PC components...CPUs, GPUs etc... And it's super easy and common to change on an unlocked CPU or GPU on a pc at home to get more performance 🤷‍♂️ I've done that on about 4 different PC builds over my life, it's been super easy. As well as flashing a lower model GPU with a higher models BIOS to unlock CUs that were disabled to get more performance. The Xbox One did an increase in CPU clockspeed in response to PS4 performance advantage in 2013:

 
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Montauk

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The closer we get to reveals and even launch expect to see a lot more FUD articles.
Is everything a conspiracy theory with you guys? You find it hard to believe that a brand new custom chip might have some production issues?

Bloomberg is the preeminent financial news source. I doubt very much a Bloomberg writer is going to invent such a story. Sony's stock price has sank because of it, so it's being taken seriously.

You can't just declare any news story you don't like as suspect.
 
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The Hate

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My wife's bio clock is ticking big time. I see this in my near future and am simultaneously full of joy and terrified. 😳😅
Haha the time flies, sometimes you dont even miss gaming because your so busy. On my down time with her if she is asleep in my lap I get to atleast catch up on the mabga I read,
 

rofif

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Reminds me of oculus quest. Once it was finally available, they are releasing 2nd one lol
 

gspat

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So they are producing more than PS4, and selling for about what the PS4 sold for...

I'm not seeing the issue? Not everyone is running out to buy one day one.
 

RayHell

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I'm not following. Increasing clockspeeds is a common industry practice. It's even common to have boost and max clockspeeds on PC components...CPUs, GPUs etc... And it's super easy and common to change on an unlocked CPU or GPU on a pc at home to get more performance 🤷‍♂️ I've done that on about 4 different PC builds over my life, it's been super easy. As well as flashing a lower model GPU with a higher models BIOS to unlock CUs that were disabled to get more performance. The Xbox One did an increase in CPU clockspeed in response to PS4 performance advantage in 2013:

Nobody was sure if the leak was referring to PS5. It was frequency on a code named CPU. Why should keep referring to that instead of the official specs? Xbox went from official specs to official specs. That's different.
 
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jimbojim

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I think a lot of what people here see as a problem is the reason WHY they had to cut production. i.e. the 50% failure rate of their 2.23 over-clocked chip.
From first 5 million report to 10, than something happened to increase production to 15 and now is reduced to 11 which is big. So, at 11 mil, yields are good then if it is above first reported 10 million? So, how many XSX/S units will produce and ship till March 2021?
 
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CatLady

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From first 5 million report to 10, than something happened to increase production to 15 and now is reduced to 11 which is big. So, at 11 mil, yields are good then if it is above first reported 10 million? So, how many XSX/S units will produce and ship till March 2021?
Don't know, don't care as long as I can get one and it doesn't have a 50% failure rate. If it has a failure rate comparable to the PS5 I will stay with my One X and wait for more stable chips.

But this thread isn't about how many Xbox is shipping or Series X chip failure rate. It's about PS5 low yields and need to cut back production due to said failure rate.
 
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THE:MILKMAN

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Has anyone ran an analysis on the % of GAF posts that are just users calling anything they don't like the sound of 'FUD'?

That term is used so much here, it's bizarre.
I mean it is a multi use acronym *shrugs* If it would make you feel better I could sub it for "bollocks"?
 

jimbojim

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Don't know, don't care as long as I can get one and it doesn't have a 50% failure rate. If it has a failure rate comparable to the PS5 I will stay with my one X and wait for more stable chips.
That was when they tried to hit 15 mil. Now, when production is reduced to still big 11 mil. units ( above first reportedly 10 mil. ), yields are good then. So, what's the problem then?
 
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