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[DragoonKain]

Not that it will hurt them much overall, but I hope Sony gets crushed on sales for Bethesda titles. They deserve it for being so stubborn. Maybe if they feel the heat, they will budge on their stance.

Like Red says "every man has his breaking point."

 

[Huge Succeeded]

My watch seems to be stuck on so-glad-I-switched-to-PC-o'clock lately

 

[Purkake4]

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Mods, crashes and experimenting go hand in hand.

 

[RootCause]

Not even mods could get me to play F4 again. But it sucks that Sony is being uptight about mods.

Oh, well. What can you do.

 

[diaspora]

Right. If we're going to get into this properly then ok I'll follow along.

QA testing a whole product is to ensure the product doesn't break and there's no issues in general with the product. Yes?

In the games industry QA testers ensure there are no bugs with a game, no glitches, make sure levels are playable without crashes etc. Yes?

If we take mods as 1 product, like Sony's policy on products when you send something to certification. That means it likley has to be tested for no crashes for that 1 product, no bugs with that 1 product and is playable as 1 product.

Only that single mod has to be tested hence my example.

Does it crash? No.
Does it have glitches? No.
Does it work as intended? Yes.

I'm extremely dumbing it down but that's all what would have to be done. Why would testing one product for glitches mean you have to test every product for compatibility? That's on the consumer like I pointed out before.

Edit: Forgot to add that each mod only has to be tested to be compatible to the baseline game. Fallout 4.

So no its no impossible.

Do you know how much fucking time and energy is involved in the QA process for each product released? Do you even work in software or QA? It's not a matter of simply being a two step process where you install a mod and load the game.

 

[Psychoward]

Not that it will hurt them much overall, but I hope Sony gets crushed on sales for Bethesda titles. They deserve it for being so stubborn. Maybe if they feel the heat, they will budge on their stance.

Like Red says "every man has his breaking point."

As cool as the backlash would be to see them move to a more consumer friendly stance, I doubt they'll budge at all. Fallout 4 is a done deal though, Skyrim remastered should be interesting because it's not a new game and arguably the #1 selling point for the game is mods.

 

[Wolfe]

Do you know how much fucking time and energy is involved in the QA process for each product released? Do you even work in software or QA? It's not a matter of simply being a two step process where you install a mod and load the game.

To be fair I already went over this angle with the guy, he conceded, no need to further drill it in.

 

[rashbeep]

So Sony request the developer to spend vital resource on testing every single community mod and that's a realistic request?

lol

Yea, not sure I buy that excuse. Onus is not on Bethesda to QA mods that they have not developed..

 

[boltz]

*No mods on PS4 Skyrim*

And still sells more copies on PS4,

.....

Bethesda not giving a fuck.

Why would Bethesda be concerned with selling more copies on one console than the other? They want to sell more copies of their games period, and this could hurt their bottom line.

 

[Ultra Numb]

The biggest selling point about this is the quest mods. The majority of those don't require SKSE and would of been great for people that play Skyrim on consoles. So many great quest mods.

I barely run Skyrim on PC at lowest settings/30fps, was hoping to be able to get a much nicer looking Skyrim with mods @ Ps4. Might just go ahead and buy an Xbox, and pick up some of the sweet exclusives they got as well.

 

[Psychoward]

So Sony request the developer to spend vital resource on testing every single community mod and that's a realistic request?

lol

Not to mention you can't just test a mod individually, you have to test it with other mods as well.

It would take virtually infinite time and resources to effectively QA the Fallout 4 mods released so far, not to mention new ones are being released each day.

Again, there's a reason there isn't a precedent for this.

 

[sunshine and gasoline]

No matter who is at fault here, it is the PS4 gamers who suffer the most. Mods are the best part, in my opinion, of any Bethesda game post-Morrowind. Hopefully something might be worked out by the time ES6 released.

 

[rashbeep]

Not to mention you can't just test a mod individually, you have to test it with other mods as well.

It would take virtually infinite time and resources to effectively QA the Fallout 4 mods released so far, not to mention new ones are being released each day.

Again, there's a reason there isn't a precedent for this.

Exactly.

I think people trying to shift the blame on Beth here have not worked in QA lol

 

[Purkake4]

Honestly, even if there was a super easy curated list of "safe" mods, how many players would use them? 10%? Less?

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I don't buy that even a little, but I don't suppose, since you seem so certain, that you'd be able to offer up some sort of example of such a thing having occurred in the past, that could serve as precedent for your argument?

They're just playing it safe. It's not a matter of whether it will or won't happen, it's a matter of picking the lesser of two evils: PS4/PS4pro crashes more often than the XB1s OR no mods for Skyrim on the PS4/PS4pro. Crashes would cause a bigger stink IMO and I think Sony think so too. If I was given one of those choices, I'd make the unpopular choice too.

 

[Psychoward]

They're just playing it safe. It's not a matter of whether it will or won't happen, it's a matter of picking the lesser of two evils: PS4/PS4pro crashes more often than the XB1s OR no mods for Skyrim on the PS4/PS4pro. Crashes would cause a bigger stink IMO and I think Sony think so too.

Until you realize Bethesda has a warning before going to the mod page that crashes and glitches may occur due to modding and to use them at your own risk. And that there haven't been widespread crashes of XB1 mods and they've been out in the wild for months now.

 

[CrisKre]

I´m assuming there has to be a way to have users comment on wether mods are safe or not.

Sony needs to get its shit together. Very very bad press in the last couple weeks.

 

[Psychoward]

I´m assuming there has to be a way to have users comment on wether mods are safe or not.

Sony needs to get its shit together. Very very bad press in the last couple weeks.

There is. And a rating system. And official forums.

 

[Wolfe]

And to be honest I imagine Sony of all people are wary of Beth games crashing on their system given last gen lol.

 

[CrisKre]

There is. And a rating system. And official forums.

Then this shit is a stupid decision.

 

[sensui-tomo]

I´m assuming there has to be a way to have users comment on wether mods are safe or not.

Sony needs to get its shit together. Very very bad press in the last couple weeks.

from what i've seen, no way to comment on the xbox mod list if you just browse the mod section. (unless ranking it low helps)

 

[diaspora]

There's already a curation process in place via the actual community by rating and commenting on mods. Making a company QA the mods themselves- which would involve both checking the mods plus how the mods interact with other mods is so goddamn absurd it defies imagination.

 

[KageMaru]

When mods are published for XBO do they need to go through a cert process? I ask because if Sony really is requiring QA, why not put the mod through the same cert process normal games go through? If they don't run into issues during cert, release it for the PS4. If it fails cert, the mod author can be notified.

I understand Bish approved the text messages but that doesn't make it a fact or true.

Also do people think Bethesda announced mod support with the PS4 without covering thing with Sony first in detail? A major publisher is not going to announce a major, non-standard, feature for a console without running it by the manufacturer first. They likely spent a lot of time and money trying to make it work.

 

[Tingle]

Exactly.

I think people trying to shift the blame on Beth here have not worked in QA lol

You don't even need to work QA to know how absurd it is. I just checked and Fallout 4 has 3600 mods for Fallout 4 on Xbox One, you can't hire enough people to test all of those mods alone. Then add in however many mods Skyrim will get, and also factor in that people will be adding mods for years to come, Sony's request is pretty obviously unfeasible.

Mods obviously have to be regulated by the people downloading them, there is no other way of handling them. People will put up crappy mods that don't work or even harm the gameplay experience. That's to be expected. People will leave bad reviews for those mods, and eventually figure out how to avoid crappy mods, just like what happens on the PC.

When mods are published for XBO do they need to go through a cert process? I ask because if Sony really is requiring QA, why not put the mod through the same cert process normal games go through? If they don't run into issues during cert, release it for the PS4. If it fails cert, the mod author can be notified.

I think if Sony was to require cert, wouldn't Sony themselves have to test every single mod? I don't think that's really any more possible than asking Bethesda to do it.

 

[Wolfe]

When mods are published for XBO do they need to go through a cert process? I ask because if Sony really is requiring QA, why not put the mod through the same cert process normal games go through? If they don't run into issues during cert, release it for the PS4. If it fails cert, the mod author can be notified.

I understand Bish approved the text messages but that doesn't make it a fact or true.

Also do people think Bethesda announced mod support with the PS4 without covering thing with Sony first in detail?

The issue is that why would Bethesda want to spend time and money on testing something they didn't create and will gain no money from?

 

[Venom Fox]

Do you know how much fucking time and energy is involved in the QA process for each product released? Do you even work in software or QA? It's not a matter of simply being a two step process where you install a mod and load the game.

Oh wow, seriously, calm down. There's no need for that man. I'm aware of the time and effort required for QA employees. I'm not that dumb. Did you read any of my other posts? Or maybe the bit where the example I gave I said it was extremely dumbed down. And I mean extremely dumbed down. No I don't work in QA. I said this 2 pages ago.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

They're just playing it safe. It's not a matter of whether it will or won't happen, it's a matter of picking the lesser of two evils: PS4/PS4pro crashes more often than the XB1s OR no mods for Skyrim on the PS4/PS4pro. Crashes would cause a bigger stink IMO and I think Sony think so too. If I was given one of those choices, I'd make the unpopular choice too.

Okay, I get where you're coming from now, I just vehemently disagree, or at least still think that that'd be a weak-as-hell justification for the decision on Sony's part, if that were true and it were also the main reason (because I'd get it being, like, a tiny, minuscule little consideration on Sony's part, and nothing more)

 

[KageMaru]

The issue is that why would Bethesda want to spend time and money on testing something they didn't create and will gain no money from?

I understand that and agree. The cert process is handled by MS, Sony, and Nintendo.

 

[jesu]

The source was then approved by Bish

The source could be the guy in the light blue for all we know.

 

[Wolfe]

I understand that and agree. The cert process is handled by MS, Sony, and Nintendo.

Ok I wasn't sure if that was your point or not, but it can still be flipped around the same way.

"why would Sony/MS/Nintendo want to spend time and money on testing something they didn't create and will gain no money from?"

Edit: also I can't recall the source anymore but I could have sworn hearing that each cert admission was like, 10's of thousands of dollars or something. For MS at least, maybe this was from some indie dev babble I read, either way it may not be as simple just "send it to cert".

 

[Psychoward]

Then this shit is a stupid decision.

Yep

There's already a curation process in place via the actual community by rating and commenting on mods. Making a company QA the mods themselves- which would involve both checking the mods plus how the mods interact with other mods is so goddamn absurd it defies imagination.

Yep x2

You don't even need to work QA to know how absurd it is. I just checked and Fallout 4 has 3600 mods for Fallout 4 on Xbox One, you can't hire enough people to test all of those mods alone. Then add in however many mods Skyrim will get, and also factor in that people will be adding mods for years to come, Sony's request is pretty obviously unfeasible.

Mods obviously have to be regulated by the people downloading them, there is no other way of handling them. People will put up crappy mods that don't work or even harm the gameplay experience. That's to be expected. People will leave bad reviews for those mods, and eventually figure out how to avoid crappy mods, just like what happens on the PC.

Yep x3

When mods are published for XBO do they need to go through a cert process? I ask because if Sony really is requiring QA, why not put the mod through the same cert process normal games go through? If they don't run into issues during cert, release it for the PS4. If it fails cert, the mod author can be notified.

I understand Bish approved the text messages but that doesn't make it a fact or true.

Also do people think Bethesda announced mod support with the PS4 without covering thing with Sony first in detail? A major publisher is not going to announce a major, non-standard, feature for a console without running it by the manufacturer first. They likely spent a lot of time and money trying to make it work.

Well to your first point there's already been posts explaining why certs for mods aren't similar to games/patches.

And for your second point you're right, if the QA thing was true AND Sony told Bethesda this early, there's no way that the ps4 mods would have gone in to beta. So either it's not true or Sony notified Bethesda of this ass bacmwards, unprecedented system after Bethesda had already contacted Sony and got the ok and started the creation kit beta. Either way you look at it the blame isn't on Bethesda here. I will agree that Bethesda is at fault for announcing Skyrim on ps4 to have mods while they were battling Sony's bullshit though. That's messed up and people who preordered digitally should be able to get refunds.

 

[bonej]

Mods are totally overrated and just a gimmick. People just install them for the sake of toying with the game or for the lolz, without improving gameplay or experience

 

[diaspora]

Oh wow, seriously, calm down. There's no need for that man. I'm aware of the time and effort required for QA employees. I'm not that dumb. Did you read any of my other posts? Or maybe the bit where the example I gave I said it was extremely dumbed down. And I mean extremely dumbed down. No I don't work in QA. I said this 2 pages ago.

The idea that it's "not impossible" is supremely irritating as someone that does development and QA for applications significantly less complex than games. The idea that a company can hire a team of a dozen+ people to QA content that they themselves never made is ridiculous.

Ok I wasn't sure if that was your point or not, but it can still be flipped around the same way.

"why would Sony/MS/Nintendo want to spend time and money on testing something they didn't create and will gain no money from?"

It's not thousands of community generated content that would need to be QA'd for an existing application developed by a different group while also ensuring that they all work with each other on said existing application.

 

[MoneyLaunderer]

Not much pisses me off in the gaming world, but this does. I would have bought Fallout 4 on XB1 had I known this would go down. Sony is shitting the bed this week, thats for sure.

 

[Psychoward]

Mods are totally overrated and just a gimmick. People just install them for the sake of toying with the game or for the lolz, without improving gameplay or experience

I'd say this is sarcastic but another junior made a similar point earlier in the thread so you never know.

 

[Wolfe]

It's not thousands of community generated content that would need to be QA'd for an existing application developed by a different group while also ensuring that they all work with each other on said existing application.

I apologize but I'm having trouble gathering what you mean or are meaning to say here.

 

[Venom Fox]

The idea that it's "not impossible" is supremely irritating as someone that does development and QA for applications significantly less complex than games. The idea that a company can hire a team of a dozen+ people to QA content that they themselves never made is ridiculous.

For all we know Sony could have said they'd test the mods and Bethesda said no. We literally don't know anything until both parties make a statement.

My post, if you didn't read it through (I think you've read a few of mine and just decided to jump on the bandwagon, seeing as you posted last page which was after I posted the post you quoted) was just saying it's not impossible. I have agreed countless times that it'd be a massive ballache, cost time, money and manpower.

 

[KageMaru]

Ok I wasn't sure if that was your point or not, but it can still be flipped around the same way.

"why would Sony/MS/Nintendo want to spend time and money on testing something they didn't create and will gain no money from?"

That one is easy: so your competitors don't have an advantage.

Well to your first point there's already been posts explaining why certs for mods aren't similar to games/patches.

And for your second point you're right, if the QA thing was true AND Sony told Bethesda this early, there's no way that the ps4 mods would have gone in to beta. So either it's not true or Sony notified Bethesda of this ass bacmwards, unprecedented system after Bethesda had already contacted Sony and got the ok and started the creation kit beta. Either way you look at it the blame isn't on Bethesda here.

I know mods aren't the same as games/patches but I still wasn't sure how they were handled on consoles which is why I asked. Based on your post they don't go through a cert process, thanks.

 

[RedRum]

Mods are totally overrated and just a gimmick. People just install them for the sake of toying with the game or for the lolz, without improving gameplay or experience

I am going to side with caution here and just assume you were joking.

 

[wesleyshark]

I don't blame them, too much work involved here.

Yeah I'm with you. Just not worth all the hoops Sony was wanting them to jump through.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Mods are totally overrated and just a gimmick. People just install them for the sake of toying with the game or for the lolz, without improving gameplay or experience

You're very wrong and it's pretty clear that you don't know what you're talking about. If you even knew about most of the major mods available for Bethesda games, you wouldn't have made such an uninformed and silly comment.

 

[eso76]

I understand Sony for being adamant in keeping the tinkering around out of their console and not wanting to pollute their platform with junk mods.

At the same time I understand myself for scratching PS4 version of Skyrim off my list.

 

[theonerayman]

Mods are totally overrated and just a gimmick. People just install them for the sake of toying with the game or for the lolz, without improving gameplay or experience

Ummmm really? You know that there are mods out there that are the size of entire expansion DLCs. Mods can do a ton of things to improve gameplay and the overall gaming experience!

 

[Venom Fox]

Mods are totally overrated and just a gimmick. People just install them for the sake of toying with the game or for the lolz, without improving gameplay or experience

I'm going with joke post ;P

 

[bobawesome]

Sony is a terrible company. This is it; I'm done.

 

[Drackhorn]

They're just playing it safe. It's not a matter of whether it will or won't happen, it's a matter of picking the lesser of two evils: PS4/PS4pro crashes more often than the XB1s OR no mods for Skyrim on the PS4/PS4pro. Crashes would cause a bigger stink IMO and I think Sony think so too. If I was given one of those choices, I'd make the unpopular choice too.

I guess I have to agree. I'm having a hard time agreeing with crashing mods on console so I see Sony's stance.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Sony are open to cross play with PC and have had mods before (Unreal Tournament) so it doesn't add up they would just shut it down without a good reason. Bethesda have hardly been great PlayStation developers in the past though (Skyrim, Fallout 3) and they couldn't get FO4 mods working when it first launched and delayed them, so wouldn't surprise me if Bethesda is partly to blame too.

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

Couldn't they just add a disclaimer saying that you install all mods at your own risk etc to waive off any possible liability if you install a mod that bricks your console or something like that.

 

[Psychoward]

I guess I have to agree. I'm having a hard time agreeing with crashing mods on console so I see Sony's stance.

I can sort of see that but there is a warning for using mods, it doesn't affect anything other than Fallout 4 and if that was the case Sony should have made it clear from the start.

 

[ANDS]

Yea, not sure I buy that excuse. Onus is not on Bethesda to QA mods that they have not developed..

But it's on SONY to make sure they don't lead to awful player experiences?