Sony Land over? 360 #1 console in the UK

Jun 27, 2005
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fortified_concept said:
We have people here who track all sales
No you don't. And that's my whole point. You may have people here who somewhat track the sales in USA, Japan, maybe even Canada and Mexico and now UK. But you don't have people here who track the world wide sales or even the european sales.
 

JDA

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Oct 15, 2006
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Kleegamefan said:
NPD, Media Create, et al. Numbers have been tracked, discussed, whored and scrutinized to death on GAF years before you even thought about becoming a member here

There are *SEVERAL* GAF members, developers included, who have varified the validity of the numbers sourced from people like bunkum, SCB and crazy bullocks on a train, to name just three.....

If the onus of doubt is on anyone, its not them, for sure.....perhaps looking in a mirror is in order here?
I've been doing some outside research and I've found more evidence to cast doubt in NeoGAF's 'celebrated' numbers...

I don't really care if you say the numbers are scrutinized to 'death' before I became a member, because these sorts of numbers should ALWAYS be scrutinized. How long have you just been telling people, "We're right, don't question us"?

You cannot verify numbers by comparing set #1 versus set #2 on the internet, it's just not a valid verification.

The biggest mystery is it almost seems NeoGAF exists in a vacuum as far as sales numbers go. I don't see the stuff mentioned on NeoGAF ANYWHERE else in the games media or public discussion.

Honestly, it's not a huge deal, but I've seen too much evidence to the contrary for everything sales-wise said here to be true.
 
May 14, 2006
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JDA said:
I've been doing some outside research and I've found more evidence to cast doubt in NeoGAF's 'celebrated' numbers...

I don't really care if you say the numbers are scrutinized to 'death' before I became a member, because these sorts of numbers should ALWAYS be scrutinized. How long have you just been telling people, "We're right, don't question us"?

You cannot verify numbers by comparing set #1 versus set #2 on the internet, it's just not a valid verification.

The biggest mystery is it almost seems NeoGAF exists in a vacuum as far as sales numbers go. I don't see the stuff mentioned on NeoGAF ANYWHERE else in the games media or public discussion.

Honestly, it's not a huge deal, but I've seen too much evidence to the contrary for everything sales-wise said here to be true.
Maybe because these numbers, especially npd number arent supposed to be leaked full stop. So officially they don't exist to the general public on the internet so that's why they are not freely spoken about.
 

davepoobond

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Apr 26, 2006
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doicare said:
Maybe because these numbers, especially npd number arent supposed to be leaked full stop. So officially they don't exist to the general public on the interent so that's why they are not freely spoken about.
.


not to mention the sales ARE tracked by people. We don't know who exactly, but there are a few people who keep track of stats that have made themselves known -- who knows how many are keeping track of them that don't post or something like that.

besides, when Sony/MS/Nintendo tell us what they shipped (or by some miracle, sold) then we compare it to LTD numbers and stuff that the people have been tracking, and most of the time it matches up.


why the **** do we need to justify these numbers threads to begin with?
 

JDA

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Oct 15, 2006
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I understand, but it also brings more questions to the validity of the sales information posted anywhere. NPD numbers are sometimes brought up in some gaming media, but they never say the same things NeoGAF does.

On the side, I have a question that someone on GAF might know. What's with the story that Atari '2600' games used to sell 500k units, no matter what. I heard this in an interview with some Atari guys. Wouldn't that mean that games actually sold better back then than they've ever sold since?
 

davepoobond

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Apr 26, 2006
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JDA said:
To be credible. "I'm right because I say I'm right" doesn't cut it.
bring this up when an NPD thread comes around, not in a ChartTrack thread.

the credibility of THESE exact sales numbers should be questioned, because as far as i've seen in this thread, they aren't exactly verifiable. but NPD and Media Create are definitely a lot more verifiable.
 

JDA

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Oct 15, 2006
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Jokeropia said:
Actually, they tend to match perfectly. Same thing whenever companies release their own numbers.
Not from what I've seen. I'm not saying that NeoGAF is necessarily wrong, but why don't the media guys here try to represent the 'reality' in what they say in stuff like podcasts?
 

JDA

Banned
Oct 15, 2006
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I was talking about the gaming media.

Can you provide the post where you discussed these NPD totals?

Can you provide the source for that Nintendo figure sheet?
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Jan 11, 2005
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JDA said:
I was talking about the gaming media.

Can you provide the post where you discussed these NPD totals?

Can you provide the source for that Nintendo figure sheet?
I took a screenshot off of Nintendo of America's press site.
 

davepoobond

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JDA

Banned
Oct 15, 2006
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Fuzzy said:
I took a screenshot off of Nintendo of America's press site.
I could search all day for the correct NPD post on this forum, could you give me any hints at all where to look besides just 'NPD', which I was searching a while ago.

Any specific users that post totals?

Even with a few numbers verified, it doesn't mean much for total credibility. If you have people close to Nintendo posting here they can be 100% correct with Nintendo's numbers, but otherwise you can't be sure of anything.
 
May 15, 2006
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Jokeropia said:
What have you seen, then? We got numbers from Nintendo just yesterday matching out cumulative NPD totals perfectly.


US = NPD sales through October
WW = shipments through September 30th
I`m a bit confused. Nintendo produced a factsheet that shows that NPD group sales data tally up with NPD group sales data?

Isn`t that like, well duh? Or have I missed something?
 

JDA

Banned
Oct 15, 2006
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davepoobond said:
okay, look. Gaming media will not post these numbers because its ILLEGAL TO DO SO. You have to PAY for them.

i dont get why you're making such a big stink about this anyway.
But they talk about sales numbers without context to the NPD, in stuff like podcasts, which I already said. I never hear anything like what's said here on said media sources.

I'm asking for this stuff because, frankly, it's info I've never heard before. I've been gaming for decades, and for as long as I've been on the net, I've followed gaming closely. I've been using that same 'knowledge' for what I've heard more recently, and just now I see these posts which go against everything I've heard.

To put it more clearly, the sources I've listened to are being challenged in these posts.
 
Apr 24, 2006
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JDA, have you ever heard of the user ioi? He got banned for derailing sales discussion threads. In fact, the discussions always started when his numbers got questioned.

You're doing the exact same thing, except you're questioning what's been always considered reliable sales figures. Your username has 3 characters too, how convenient.

I smell an e-revenge attempt.
 

davepoobond

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JDA said:
But they talk about sales numbers without context to the NPD, in stuff like podcasts, which I already said.
podcasts are not written numerical reports. they are more or less opinions, just like a forums such as neogaf is.

except the main difference is that they don't say how much each game earns in revenue. Gaming media is free to list a top 10/top 30, but they can't show exact NUMBERS unless the companies themselves say "we sold 1 million according to NPD" or some such thing. Gaming publishers pay NPD to be able to say those numbers and have them advertised.


I'm asking for this stuff because, frankly, it's info I've never heard before. I've been gaming for decades, and for as long as I've been on the net, I've followed gaming closely. I've been using that same 'knowledge' for what I've heard more recently, and just now I see these posts which go against everything I've heard.

To put it more clearly, the sources I've listened to are being challenged in these posts.
what are they saying, exactly? GameCube sold 100 million consoles, Xbox only sold 1 million and the Xbox360 already has 10 miillion sold through?
 

JDA

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Oct 15, 2006
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Green Biker Dude said:
JDA, have you ever heard of the user ioi? He got banned for derailing sales discussion threads. In fact, the discussions always started when his numbers got questioned.

You're doing the exact same thing, except you're questioning what's been always considered reliable sales figures. Your username has 3 characters too, how convenient.

I smell an e-revenge attempt.
I think the mods could see that my IP is not the same, I've only ever had this name here.

"Always considered reliable" to the regulars on NeoGAF, that means nothing to those outside neoGAF...

Finally, I'm not derailing, I'm discussing sales in a sales thread.
 

JDA

Banned
Oct 15, 2006
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davepoobond said:
podcasts are not written numerical reports. they are more or less opinions, just like a forums such as neogaf is.

except the main difference is that they don't say how much each game earns in revenue. Gaming media is free to list a top 10/top 30, but they can't show exact NUMBERS unless the companies themselves say "we sold 1 million according to NPD" or some such thing. Gaming publishers pay NPD to be able to say those numbers and have them advertised.




what are they saying, exactly? GameCube sold 100 million consoles, Xbox only sold 1 million and the Xbox360 already has 10 miillion sold through?
I guess what confuses me is stuff like the 1up.com content (I also pay attention to Gamespot's content). Whatever you find there is what I've been hearing. Why I said some of the things I did was I know there's 1up.com staff here.

I'm not saying the media needs to put out private reports, but the commentary they make should reflect the reality, if it's real.
 
May 15, 2006
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JDA said:
I think the mods could see that my IP is not the same, I've only ever had this name here.

"Always considered reliable" to the regulars on NeoGAF, that means nothing to those outside neoGAF...

Finally, I'm not derailing, I'm discussing sales in a sales thread.
Think of it like the music charts. They aren`t accurate, but they are mostly all you have (although personallyI`d rather have manufacturer shipped numbers as in business terms it means more). Of course they can be manipulated, and that may well be why those companies are in the NPD data are always given preferential treatment in the launch HW stakes over those who are not and are estimated.
 

JDA

Banned
Oct 15, 2006
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syllogism said:
I don't know why I bother, but:

Gamespot talks about September NPD numbers: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159811.html?q=npd (they do this every month and so does ign)

Thread here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123743&highlight=september+npd
Actually, I'm surprised that those were as true to what was said here as they were. I don't know why I never really noticed what Gamespot was saying about the NPD numbers. I guess it just reflects on podcasts and live shows, which I pay more attention to.
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Jan 11, 2005
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ChrisAllenFiz said:
I`m a bit confused. Nintendo produced a factsheet that shows that NPD group sales data tally up with NPD group sales data?

Isn`t that like, well duh? Or have I missed something?
Nintendo NPD data matches GAF NPD data hence GAF NPD data = correct.
 

JDA

Banned
Oct 15, 2006
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doicare said:
If not him than somebody like the giant crab.
I don't know who the giant crab is, I mostly post in game impressions and general x360 on TXB.

I'm trying to search for JDG on TXB but their search engine sucks...
 
Jun 8, 2004
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Wow, a novel way to take a sales thread to hell, haven't seen this one yet.

For it's worth, I know some of the guys who leak the NPD data, and they do have access to it. And as far as I've checked against the stuff I see in work, it has been legit.

FFS, why is this even discussed? This forum has tens of people with access to the data, has it crossed your mind that someone would call foul if someone would skew the numbers... unless it's all a conspiracy omg
 

davepoobond

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Chittagong said:
Wow, a novel way to take a sales thread to hell, haven't seen this one yet.

For it's worth, I know some of the guys who leak the NPD data, and they do have access to it. And as far as I've checked against the stuff I see in work, it has been legit.

FFS, why is this even discussed? This forum has tens of people with access to the data, has it crossed your mind that someone would call foul if someone would skew the numbers... unless it's all a conspiracy omg
NPD doesn't exist.
 

JDA

Banned
Oct 15, 2006
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Chittagong said:
Wow, a novel way to take a sales thread to hell, haven't seen this one yet.

For it's worth, I know some of the guys who leak the NPD data, and they do have access to it. And as far as I've checked against the stuff I see in work, it has been legit.

FFS, why is this even discussed? This forum has tens of people with access to the data, has it crossed your mind that someone would call foul if someone would skew the numbers... unless it's all a conspiracy omg
It's the internet, people rarely call anything into question
 
Aug 18, 2005
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JDA said:
It's the internet, people rarely call anything into question

You might want to lurk a bit more here. Usually people on these boards question all insider information and sales data, and if they are accepted at face value, it's because people know that the person posting is reliable.
 

P90

Member
Jun 15, 2004
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Uncle said:
You might want to lurk a bit more here. Usually people on these boards question all insider information and sales data, and if they are accepted at face value, it's because people know that the person posting is reliable.
+1
 

heidern

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2004
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JDA said:
It's the internet, people rarely call anything into question
Listen junior, multiple people have been tracking the data on these boards for years, and have used multiple sources including tracking data given publically by the likes of NPD and Media Create, and data released by insiders specifically on this board, and data given by news sites be they gaming sites like MCV or the wider media like Reuters or thestreet.com, and then all of that has been compared with the shipment data given by hardware providers.

Do you really think everyone has been just wasting their time for all these years without any consideration for the validity of the numbers? But since you asked you can compare: GAF and gamesindustry.biz or GAF and Gamasutra as two examples on top of how our totals match NPD figures given by Nintendo.

Rather than derailing threads and just throwing out wild accusations, how about you actually go to the effort of pointing out the specific data that you have that contradicts the data you see here. That would actually be welcome, assuming you actually have something, but either way you should put up or shut up.
 
Jan 14, 2006
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Enzed
JDA said:
I've been doing some outside research and I've found more evidence to cast doubt in NeoGAF's 'celebrated' numbers...

...

Honestly, it's not a huge deal, but I've seen too much evidence to the contrary for everything sales-wise said here to be true.
Thank you for providing this evidence you have collected. May we again acquit OJ Simpson if the need be
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Chittagong said:
For it's worth, I know some of the guys who leak the NPD data, and they do have access to it. And as far as I've checked against the stuff I see in work, it has been legit.
The other thing to consider is that there are countless more who have access to it but don't post the data because they value their jobs.
 

elostyle

Never forget! I'm Dumb!
Jul 5, 2005
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For anyone here that leaks NPD data, there are 10 or more that get the data from the original source but don't leak it.

It'd be instantly known if numbers posted are false. For what it's worth, NPD numbers here are accurate.
 
Jul 21, 2004
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Now that the thread has calmed down a bit a couple of thoughts.

I for one don't think this means MS will win in Europe. All this means is that Sony comments and others about the 360 falling on it's face in europe have to be taken with a grain of salt (And were talking the big Kosher salt, you know the good stuff.).