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Sony: Microsoft's reversals "show how smart they are"
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
BruiserBear
Banned
With the amount of people who rejoiced at the news the Kinect no longer had to be plugged in, I think their data is gonna tell them a lot of early adopters don't even bother hooking it up.
Personally I have no space or desire to have a larger camera junking up my entertainment center.
RedNumberFive
Banned
So you decided to bring a knife to a gunfight?
Damn.
TheBioLover
Member
Just as making good posts is a foreign concept to you.
NullPointer
Member
So true
Look at those Microsoft suits above, showing us all the true nature of humility. Bless their hearts.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Basically Sony wanted to talk about negative things Microsoft did and come out looking nice at the same time. Sony is pretty good at PR and any college kid wanting to work in public relations should make note of this launch.
too much invested in it...they have positioned it as a central cog in their strategy...if you remove it and fragment the market you are defeating yourself...
SwiftDeath
Member
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if college professors took note of the Xbox one
It has got to make a fascinating case study in terms of marketing strategies
thatwordidonotthinkitmeanswhatyouthinkitmeans.jpg
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
I know that when I'm looking to buy a video game console some corporate exec that is embellishing the competition makes me want to buy the console even more.
Some bold ass posters today lol.
I think Titanfall will increase the install base just fine.
Not really.
TheGreyHulk
Member
I like how they acknowledge how they're the challenger here in the states. Sony has really changed from their arrogant crazy ken days. They were really humbled by the PS3 sales in the states and I'm glad it brought them back into focus w/ the PS4.
The battle for top console in the US will be very interesting. We need them NPD's!
The battle for top console in the US will be very interesting. We need them NPD's!
Septimus Prime
Member
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
It is a case study in what not to say after you upset people. In Microsofts case, they just can't seem to shut up and stop shooting themselves in the foot.
It's interesting how the tables have turned for this next generation.
SwiftDeath
Member
Oh it most certainly will but if the XB1 is still at 500 bucks it's certainly going to hamper the increase
Do you not think a $349 kinectless SKU would move like a bat out of hell with titanfall?
I have yet to see any evidence why it's inclusion must be mandatory
Nor do I believe we ever will
All the nice UI features could be done with a separate peripheral
Very detailed response, thank you
In what ways will my game experience on XB1 at launch be unplayable due to the kinect not being plugged in?
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I'll take "Juniors who don't bother reading OPs" for $500, Alex.
Judging by Sony's success with the PS4's reception and Microsoft's, umm, reception to the Xbox One, it's clear core console gamers are mostly averse to innovation, instead preferring an evolution or enhancement of more of the same. Kinda irritating, huh?
A ton of Killer Instinct's features won't work, for example. You won't be able to play Kinect Sports Rivals down the line. You won't be able to use Skype, or navigate the dash without a controller, or enjoy the auto-sign in benefits. And I'm guessing plenty of developers are going to follow suit.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
You act like any innovation is good innovation. 24 hour checks and no used games is not 'innovation', it's 'restriction'. This talking point is so asinine.
SwiftDeath
Member
Because the 2nd version of kinect is somehow revolutionary and not evolutionary?
It literally is bumped up tech
The same inherent flaws such as a complete lack of tactile feedback still exist
Lag has been lessened but is still greater than that of a controller
And they still have yet to show a innovative use case for games
What exactly is revolutionary about the kinect 2 as it is now?
I said GAME EXPERIENCES at LAUNCH which is the point everyone's been talking about why its inclusion should be mandated
rivals is not at launch
skype, navigating the dash w/ kinect, auto-sign in are not game experiences
Is fighter within not a launch game? I would've thought you'd say that
Does the killer instinct kinect feature go beyond switching more easily between players (i.e. tournament setting)?
Because all I hear thus far are minor convenience features which do not make for better game experiences
You don't drop the price after demand increases. That's not how it works and it wouldn't make sense for them to do that.
Also, the moment you drop Kinect, you get fragmentation. Fragmentation is very, very bad. Ask Sony.
I know it might not seem significant, but the very fact it ships with every system is a really, really big deal for developers. You're generally right about the tech, but the real revolution lies in the inclusion of the system.
I take it this is salt over folks not wanting Kinect 2.
Look, no one minds innovation when it brings something worthwhile to the table. Kinect struggled to prove its worth to gamers, and so far MS has done nothing to prove that Kinect 2 will buck that trend. Hence, people are opposed to paying the premium for the Xbone when part of that cost comes with a device that doesn't significantly enhance the experience.
Throw something like Occulus Rift in there or some other VR equivalent, and I guarantee you there would be a lot more, and more genuine, excitement toward that expensive package.
Maybe not for you.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Approx 25 million Kinects have been sold. That's not very few.
funkystudent
Member
Well, it's true. People don't know what they want until they have it. Sony's played it very safe with PS4. Good for them, but it's limiting for the industry.
100 Million Wiis have been sold. And now look at the WiiU.
Past success of hype gimmicks doesn´t really translate into future successes.
SwiftDeath
Member
You drop the price when a system fails to live up to your expectations
Demand increasing helps but what happens if titanfall isn't as successful as it could be because MS failed to sell consoles?
Yes when you drop kinect you get fragmentation but that is ONLY a problem if you need 100% attach rate for game use
All UI use could EASILY be done without the need of kinect
Tech doesn't magically become revolutionary because it's now forcefully included
I'm sorry but that's not innovative in the least bit
The original kinect WAS revolutionary but failed to turn out anything worthwhile
So if some amazing use case does pop out of kinect 2, it will be that software that is revolutionary and in no way the forced inclusion of kinect 2
But WHY do we need kinect to be mandated if it's just for UI convenience features?
Fragmentation of the use base wouldn't matter
The only reason ^ matters is because of game uses but there are no compelling game uses at this time
Blu-ray drive -> $599
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Pretty sure that's sarcasm.
slicedmass
Banned
i read the title as sarcasm.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I don't think the situations are comparable, Wii-U has struggled due to other issues, not the least of which is complete confusion about the system. How many people think it's an add-on for the Wii?
If Titanfall flops, then they'll drop the price. Not before.
And why do you think that was...?
Because it gives developers more tools. That allows them to make better experiences. It's as simple as that.
Huh?
elementalsin
Member
Snap. On the money. (bit harsh though, haha)
Quite so. Especially on gaf as of late.
It is not even debate that the Wii was a fluke in what is otherwise an unarrestable decline. Nintendo drank their own kool-aid.
It's not limiting the industry at all. If someone comes up with a product that consumers, even gamers, genuinely desire, they'll go out and get it. Having to buy all those expensive plastic instruments didn't stop the GH/RB franchises from exploding a few years back. I'd personally wager VR has the potential to do the same thing, without fizzling out since it would have a much wider-scale effect across all sorts of game genres, and I specifically picked that example because of the rumors of Sony dabbling in their own VR tech for PS4. That's something that has real potential to shake things up with genuine interest. On the other hand, you can look at Valve's crazy trackpad-controller concoction that will apparently make more genres traditionally preferred in the PC space to comfy couch gaming setups, and there's something that could bring something folks really want to the table. Contrast those examples to Kinect, where MS has to beg devs to come up with something that only garners a roll of the eyes from gamers, and you see the clear contrast to enthusiasm.
To put it another way, there's already 25 million folks with Kinect out there. That there's such a lack of enthusiasm for the next iteration tells us all we need to know about how much consumers have embraced this particular innovation.
schwabdizzle
Banned
Only if they pack it in for $499. That will possibly but me over the edge to buy an X1 at that cost. Also, I think people are really sleeping on Destiny compared to TitanFall.
SwiftDeath
Member
That may very well be true I suppose
I doubt XB1's launch holiday numbers are going to be that bad so maybe you're right in that
Because it offered new technology and new use cases?
The level of innovation required to go from nothing to kinect 1 is a hell of a lot more than the innovation required to go from kinect 1 -> kinect 2
So then the XB1 should have come with a Xbox branded gamepad an occulus rift and any other tool the developer could possibly use?
No of course not
Why give developers a tool that they've shown they care nothing about?
All the while taking it out on consumers wallets?
Just noting that Sony is no stranger to bringing innovative technology to the game market
They brought blu ray drives in and lost untold money because of it (cell didn't help)
Now blu ray is standard (think wii u uses a similar disc technology)
Anyways Sony doesn't see motion controls as anything but a gimmick and I have to agree with them at least until the technology greatly improves
The early rumors were that both Sony & MS had decided that they weren't going to take a loss on console HW this generation, and I think that there evidence that those rumors were true.
We've read that Sony is taking a $60 loss on each PS4, and I've seen an estimate that the component cost if its 8GB GDDR5 RAM at approximately $120. Knowing that Sony initially planned for 4GB instead of 8, it becomes clear that Sony had been targeting a $399 break-even console, and then decided to eat the additional cost of the memory increase when that decision was made. (Personally, I think that is Sony was certain MS was going to price XB1 at $499 they'd have bundled the PS Eye and matched them, allowing them to avoid the loss-taking, not cede any audio/motion-control to the XB1, and stand on their technical superiority.)
But what's really instructive here is that MS' HW cost is only ~$50 more than Sony's, Kinect included. Assuming Sony isn't going to be comfortable taking losses on HW perpetually, MS should be able to drop prices earlier as component costs come down.
So while Sony is still waiting to break even on its HW next winter, MS could comfortably bring the cost differential down to $50, and keep it there lock-step throughout the rest of the generation.
I understand that Gaf hardcores will continue to take the position of "That's still $50 more for a worse-performing console and a peripheral that I'm not interested in!" and I get that. But casuals are going to see Kinect as "cool tech" they're getting for a marginal increase in price, and I guarantee the fantasy of "this is going to help me get in shape like I've been wanting to do" is going to sell Xboxes just like it sells pricey gym memberships.
To me, that's a much more appealing long-term strategy for MS than dropping Kinect and standing on a $50 price advantage for the rest of the generation.
Thinking about different examples to innovation in console gaming, I think back to 5th gen, where rumble & analog sticks were introduced to controllers. Consumers reacted positively, and since the DualShock, every traditional controller has adopted the dual analog + vibration motors into their designs, and those have been incorporated into various genres and have become staples of standard controls and features. Didn't take long for consumers and developers to latch on to the innovation.
Again, contrast to Kinect, Or, to take it even further, go back as far as the EyeToy for the PS2. Then the PSEye for the PS3. Then the Kinect for the 360. Camera accessories have been around for generations now, yet they've never been embraced significantly by developers nor consumers. Kinect made the biggest waves, yet the reactions to the next iteration are lukewarm at best. There's no genuine desire, no earnest hype, for its successor, which bodes poorly for the Xbone as a whole when it's included in the package and drives up the price.
Until MS finds some real killer app for the thing and gets people excited to use it, it's safe to say this particular innovation is not one that needs to be regarded as a necessary component for the future of console gaming.
Again, contrast to Kinect, Or, to take it even further, go back as far as the EyeToy for the PS2. Then the PSEye for the PS3. Then the Kinect for the 360. Camera accessories have been around for generations now, yet they've never been embraced significantly by developers nor consumers. Kinect made the biggest waves, yet the reactions to the next iteration are lukewarm at best. There's no genuine desire, no earnest hype, for its successor, which bodes poorly for the Xbone as a whole when it's included in the package and drives up the price.
Until MS finds some real killer app for the thing and gets people excited to use it, it's safe to say this particular innovation is not one that needs to be regarded as a necessary component for the future of console gaming.
SwiftDeath
Member
Yeah with the kinect being included and the size of the APU for that ram solution
Everything points to MS having far more trouble cutting costs on their console compared to Sony
Sony increased ram to 8gb of GDDR5 because cost went down so much
Cost of GDDR5 will only further decrease whereas DDR3 memory has already hit rock bottom pretty much
So only room for MS to shed cost is the chips (where the APU is going to be a pain to shrink) and the kinect tech which is proprietary and not likely to benefit much due to limited economies of scale
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