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Sony patent hints at 3D stacked chips with dual heatsink

onQ123

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[0019] This structure of the electronic equipment 1 eliminates the need for a space for a heat radiating apparatus on the upper side of the integrated circuit apparatus 5 as illustrated in FIG. 1, thus making it possible to dispose another component 9 (e.g., a transmission/reception module with an antenna and so on, a sensor, an external storage apparatus) of the electronic equipment 1 on the upper side of the integrated circuit apparatus 5 and ensuring a higher degree of freedom in laying out the component 9. In the example of the electronic equipment 1, the component 9 is disposed on the opposite side of the heatsink 21 with the circuit board 10 and the integrated circuit apparatus 5 provided therebetween. That is, the component 9 is disposed close to the upper side of the integrated circuit apparatus 5. Specifically, a distance L1 between the component 9 and the integrated circuit apparatus 5 is smaller than a height H1 of the heatsink 21. Unlike the example of the electronic equipment 1, another heat radiating apparatus may be provided on the upper surface of the integrated circuit apparatus 5. As a result, two heat radiating apparatuses are provided on the integrated circuit apparatus 5, thus providing improved cooling performance.




 
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geordiemp

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On GAF quite a few months ago someone posted a picture of the double sided cooling chip layout and I commented on it, all I can recall if it cools both sides in a strange manner.

The patent from May 2018 shows Sony strategy was actually planned and calculated. Sure it was posted even before Cerny reveal.

Hopefully someone can find the images again.
 
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onQ123

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Heatsink on top & bottom most likely mean this will be a towel design or just thick like the devkits
 

geordiemp

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Heatsink on top & bottom most likely mean this will be a towel design or just thick like the devkits

OR APU in middle and cooling connected to heat sinks left and right from top and bottom of APU ? Hence the V.

Form and fuction over aesthetics, I love it.

What is probably clear is the case is designed around the cooling patent to maximise its effect.

Also what intrigues me is if Sony have a CPU / GPU / APU cooling patent, that could be big if licensed to their partners.
 
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Shin

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No picture in the patent? :(
I've seen that image/patent before, there's a thread about it already.

According to the present invention, a heat sink (21) is arranged on the lower surface of a circuit board (10). The circuit board (10) has a through hole (h1) that penetrates through the circuit board (10) within a region (A) in which an integrated circuit device (5) is arranged. This through hole (h1) is provided with a heat conduction path (11). The heat conduction path (11) connects the integrated circuit device 5 and the heat sink (21) to each other. Due to this configuration, a component that is different from the heat sink (21) is able to be arranged on the same side as the integrated circuit device (5), and thus the degree of freedom in component layout is able to be increased.

 
Dec 29, 2018
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OR APU in middle and cooling connected to heat sinks left and right from top and bottom of APU ? Hence the V.

Form and fuction over aesthetics, I love it.

What is probably clear is the case is designed around the cooling patent to maximise its effect.

Also what intrigues me is if Sony have a CPU / GPU / APU cooling patent, that could be big if licensed to their partners.
This is what I've been saying for the longest time yet we keep getting PS5 concepts with these fucking ridiculous PS4 Slim form factors not taking into account the cooling needed for this system.

Blows my mind how no one has designed around thermal effeciency.

I mean fuckit, start with the devkit atleast and build from there if you are going to come up with a realistic concept. Look how the thermals is meant to function with regards to the dev kit.
V form factor with vents either side of the V.
Well shit that looks to be the exhaust port.
Now picture an intake port at the bottom of the console to bring in the cold air.
Now you have a functioning console that wont kick its fans into 1000% percent because now there are plenty of space doe the hot air to escape quickly.

Just look at these abominations:
HOW.


THE.FUCK


DO.YOU.COOL.THIS
SHIT Running at north of 2.2GHz without the plastic melting
 
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PocoJoe

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This is what I've been saying for the longest time yet we keep getting PS5 concepts with these fucking ridiculous PS4 Slim form factors not taking into account the cooling needed for this system.

Blows my mind how no one has designed around thermal effeciency.

I mean fuckit, start with the devkit atleast and build from there if you are going to come up with a realistic concept. Look how the thermals is meant to function with regards to the dev kit.
V form factor with vents either side of the V.
Well shit that looks to be the exhaust port.
Now picture an intake port at the bottom of the console to bring in the cold air.
Now you have a functioning console that wont kick its fans into 1000% percent because now there are plenty of space doe the hot air to escape quickly.

Just look at these abominations:
HOW.


THE.FUCK


DO.YOU.COOL.THIS
SHIT Running at north of 2.2GHz without the plastic melting

Indeed!

Annoying as hell to see this shitty ass renders (from engineering/thermal standpoint) getting praised how good they are.

Kind of same as on other visual things, some random woman posts landscape pics on instagram with crooked horizons and over edited colors and yet they get more likes than some hairy man with epic pics. = people are just too blind&biased to see things as what they are.

Technically those renders are not so bad, in 3d modeling sense. But that means nothing if they are way too thin.

Just tells that even morons can use 3D modeling software, just like even morons can take pictures and crank color saturation into max and get praised.
 

THE:MILKMAN

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Yeah I saw this patent first posted by anexanhume at Era back in December 2018. Good to see Sony do seem to be using the design.

I wonder what form factor the console will have now. Or maybe it means they can still use the traditional shape but be both cool and quiet?
 
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FranXico

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Yeah I saw this patent first posted by anexanhume at Era back in December 2018. Good to see Sony do seem to be using the design.

I wonder what form factor the console will have now. Or maybe it means they can still use the traditional shape but be both cool and quiet?

That probably means Cerny got so desperate, he even traveled back in time to 2017/18 to design a heatsink so that he could overclock the PS5 GPU in 2020.

Seriously now, I think it will have a big fan, but maybe it will be less loud...
 

yurinka

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Seriously Sony, how hard can it be:

Please, no. If there is a cooling option with heatsinks I prefer it over using fans because it's quieter.
One of the things that Sony must improve in PS5 over PS4 is the jet engine fan noise: it must be super quiet while keeping the console in a great temperature.
 

Shmunter

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Please, no. If there is a cooling option with heatsinks I prefer it over using fans because it's quieter.
One of the things that Sony must improve in PS5 over PS4 is the jet engine fan noise: it must be super quiet while keeping the console in a great temperature.
From what I can tell, Sony fans will spin at a consistent velocity, perhaps with a small delta for ambient differences. That’s what their consistent power delivery aims to solve.

Could be wrong, happy to be enlightened.
 
Mar 27, 2020
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On GAF quite a few months ago someone posted a picture of the double sided cooling chip layout and I commented on it, all I can recall if it cools both sides in a strange manner.

The patent from May 2018 shows Sony strategy was actually planned and calculated. Sure it was posted even before Cerny reveal.

Hopefully someone can find the images again.



I saw this one posted before.

Edit: Oops I missed Shins post. Anyways I believe it's going to be similar to what the PS5 will have. The teardown will reveal that to us.
 
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LordOfChaos

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I have zilch experience with engineering or working with computers (other than generally using them). What is the significance of this patent?

Normally you can only cool a chip from the top, the PCB is below it and not worth too much effort cooling, too many layers of material between the hot silicon and bottom of the board.

A 3D stacked chip being relevant to cool from both the top and bottom could mean that within the same size of a console, you can move away substantially more power/heat.
 
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ZywyPL

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Because if they used a simple little fan and heatsink like the on that you've posted the PS5 wouldn't be cooled as efficiently. Heck even Microsoft didn't choose a standard cooling system for the Series X.

You take posts way too seriously... They don't have to reinvent the wheel, like it seems they are doing, just put a big heatsink on top of the APU, big fan that will move the air, put some decent vents on the case, monitor the APU's temperature, and there you go, a simple, cheap and efficient cooling.
 
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You take posts way too seriously... They don't have to reinvent the wheel, like it seems they are doing, just put a big heatsink on top of the APU, big fan that will move the air, put some decent vents on the case, monitor the APU's temperature, and there you go, a simple, cheap and efficient cooling.


If it was that simple they would have done it. My guess is that the PS5s APU itself runs pretty hot so they came up with this cooling solution because a traditional one wouldn't have worked in the PS5s case.

That's my guess.
 

kuncol02

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What is new in that? There are SMD chips cooled from other side of PCB. Like TMC2208. Popular stepper motor used in 3d printers. Usually PCB is working as heatsink in that situation. If that's what they had to do to cool PS5 APU then they really fucked with the design.
 

ZywyPL

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If it was that simple they would have done it. My guess is that the PS5s APU itself runs pretty hot so they came up with this cooling solution because a traditional one wouldn't have worked in the PS5s case.

That's my guess.

MS has done it with XB1, then X1X, now XBX, PCs are doing it for decades whether it comes to CPU or GPU, no matter their size, even gaming laptops deal with heat pretty well, especially given their limited space, so I don't know, it's really hard for me to believe it's really THAT hard.... Unless that 2.2GHz clock is really causing such heat issues.
 
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MS has done it with XB1, then X1X, now XBX, PCs are doing it for decades whether it comes to CPU or GPU, no matter their size, even gaming laptops deal with heat pretty well, especially given their limited space, so I don't know, it's really hard for me to believe it's really THAT hard.... Unless that 2.2GHz clock is really causing such heat issues.

The console won't have any heat issues with a good cooling system though.
 

onQ123

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You take posts way too seriously... They don't have to reinvent the wheel, like it seems they are doing, just put a big heatsink on top of the APU, big fan that will move the air, put some decent vents on the case, monitor the APU's temperature, and there you go, a simple, cheap and efficient cooling.


That solution wouldn't allow them to stack other chips on top of the main chip


 
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You take posts way too seriously... They don't have to reinvent the wheel, like it seems they are doing, just put a big heatsink on top of the APU, big fan that will move the air, put some decent vents on the case, monitor the APU's temperature, and there you go, a simple, cheap and efficient cooling.
I disagree, they have identified issues from previous designs and are listening to feedback to correct said issues. This is what smart companies do and is why Sony sells systems.
 

Dontero

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Painted it to better see what is what.

green - PCB
orange - heatsink/heatpipes
blue - main chip with housing

Basically chip is placed not on PCB but on heatplate that heatplate has miniheatpipes coming throught it on other side of pcb where lies heatsink with fins. center of chip is used to cool via heatplate and PCI lanes go around the rim of chip. Consoles don't need a lot of PCI lanes so it is perfectly reasonable that a lot of underside is without PCI lanes unlike something like PC chip. Then there is other heatsink which lies on top of housing with paste in traditional way.

neat design, but i doubt it would poliferate to PC as PC chips have massive amount of PCI lanes and there is simply no space for heatplate. With such setup you can cool chip from two sides which is especially important for 3D stacked chips.

 
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longdi

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Indeed!

Annoying as hell to see this shitty ass renders (from engineering/thermal standpoint) getting praised how good they are.

Kind of same as on other visual things, some random woman posts landscape pics on instagram with crooked horizons and over edited colors and yet they get more likes than some hairy man with epic pics. = people are just too blind&biased to see things as what they are.

Technically those renders are not so bad, in 3d modeling sense. But that means nothing if they are way too thin.

Just tells that even morons can use 3D modeling software, just like even morons can take pictures and crank color saturation into max and get praised.

Correct me, but this patent is because Sony wants to keep the device thin.

Using one heatsink to cool 2 IC on opposite sides of the pcb. They drilled a hole somewhere in the middle and connect heatpipes to the main heatsink. You know something like them bugs bunny cartoon, where he drilled throug the globe and reach the other side of the world.

Doesnt feels it can keep the 2.13ghz cool though.
 
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