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[jts]

Lik-Sang fell into trouble with Sony over the PS3, not the psp.

This is a bit OT, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case.

Remember that the PSP was a Japanese exclusive for a good bit, while the PS3 got a pretty much simultaneous JP/US release, although Europe got delayed.

 

[Novocaine]

Fucking Sony. Maybe if you made your stuff more accessible to us non-Netflix countries we wouldn't have to use alternate methods.

And for fucks sake put Seinfeld on the Australian video unlimited store already.

 

[Quasar]

Why is everyone getting mad at Sony?

When you pay your $10 to netflix, part of that is used to pay the studios for licensing their IP. Netflix negotiated a deal for the US region. So if you live outside of the US, netflix keeps all your subscription and doesnt pay the studios. Netflix is the one that is acting in bad faith here.

Do they?

Citation needed.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Do they?

Citation needed.

They do. Netflix paid Sony for US distribution rights but then is very lax about allowing users outside the US access the content which Netflix hasn't paid the rights for. Netflix gains the subscribers without paying Sony for the content they are accessing. That is why Sony isn't pleased.

 

[Fusebox]

They aren't lax, you need a DNS redirect or VPN in order to use the service. That isn't being lax at all.

 

[netBuff]

They do. Netflix paid Sony for US distribution rights but then is very lax about allowing users outside the US access the content which Netflix hasn't paid the rights for. Netflix gains the subscribers without paying Sony for the content they are accessing. That is why Sony isn't pleased.

You keep repeating this without posting any proof. It seems unlikely Netflix isn't paying a "per watch" fee.

But Sony doesn't want Netflix to usurp their global syndication business.

 

[Marty Chinn]

They aren't lax, you need a DNS redirect or VPN in order to use the service. That isn't being lax at all.

They allow foreign credit cards with foreign billing addresses. There are steps Netflix can do to make it more difficult.

You keep repeating this without posting any proof. It seems unlikely Netflix isn't paying a "per watch" fee.

But Sony doesn't want Netflix to usurp their global syndication business.

This is an old thread. It's already been discussed. Netflix doesn't pay a per watch fee.

 

[GK86]

I'm not even sure what you're asking me to prove.

Netflix pays on a case by case basis for streaming rights. It's more complicated in other markets because production companies sell foreign distribution rights. Netflix has to deal with the existing rights-holders as well as the original owner.

This is the "excuse" for the pitiful state of non-US versions of Netflix. It's absolutely about what Netflix is willing to pursue or pay for.

To prove that Netflix WONT pay for rights outside of the US and use that as an excuse for the libraries outside of the US.

While the libraries outside the US sometimes feel lacking, they usually have modern movies and blockbusters that have come out this past summer.

 

[netBuff]

They allow foreign credit cards with foreign billing addresses. There are steps Netflix can do to make it more difficult.

Netflix is interested in streaming customers, they don't care about Sony's syndication business. Sony is getting paid either way, but they want to protect their entrenched "overseas" business.

 

[netBuff]

This is an old thread. It's already been discussed. Netflix doesn't pay a per watch fee.

Except when they do.

 

[Mr. Mister]

You keep repeating this without posting any proof. It seems unlikely Netflix isn't paying a "per watch" fee.

But Sony doesn't want Netflix to usurp their global syndication business.

No dude. That burden of proof is on you. There are dozens of publicly available deals and all are negotiated as upfront bulk payments for blocks of content. If you are going to imply that someone is getting a cut of subscriptions or a pay per view payment YOU need to show it.

 

[Quasar]

They do. Netflix paid Sony for US distribution rights but then is very lax about allowing users outside the US access the content which Netflix hasn't paid the rights for. Netflix gains the subscribers without paying Sony for the content they are accessing. That is why Sony isn't pleased.

Well that depends on how the rights contracts works. If they pay per subscriber well then my money does get to Sony. Just as it does if its per stream. I cant imagine the agreement is simply per region with no regard to how many people subscribe or use the service.

As for the Hollywood studios, their upset is that they currently charge more in some regions than others. Its essentially more regional pricing bullshit.

 

[netBuff]

No dude. That burden of proof is on you. There are dozens of publicly available deals and all are negotiated as upfront bulk payments for blocks of content. If you are going to imply that someone is getting a cut of subscriptions or a pay per view payment YOU need to show it.

No, their contracts aren't public. Show me. It's highly likely at least some of their contracts are "per watch" type deals.

 

[Fusebox]

They allow foreign credit cards with foreign billing addresses. There are steps Netflix can do to make it more difficult.

Granted they could make it even more difficult but there's no way I'll agree that their current requirements are 'very lax' when I have to pay for an additional DNS redirect service and sign into my US PSN account just to get on.

 

[K' Dash]

Remove your content, close netflix, do whatever you want, I'll find another way to see the content, there's plenty to choose.

And to the people saying shit about "fake us users" with all due respect, go f**k yourselves, like you don't have content on you pc you didn't pay for.

Give me a break...

 

[Pelydr]

Why do euros not understand their own shitty companies pay for releases in their own countries? Its fucking insane. YES YOU ARE BLOCKED FROM YOUTUBE SOME SHITTY COMPANY IN YOUR COUNTRY PAID FOR THE RIGHTS TO SHOW IT.

How do you guys not get this?

 

[netBuff]

Why do euros not understand their own shitty companies pay for releases in their own countries? Its fucking insane. YES YOU ARE BLOCKED FROM YOUTUBE SOME SHITTY COMPANY IN YOUR COUNTRY PAID FOR THE RIGHTS TO SHOW IT.

How do you guys not get this?

But why should the user care? They just want to watch the content, and don't care about the rights situation the movie studio negotiated.

 

[Mr. Mister]

No, their contracts aren't public. Show me. It's highly likely at least some of their contracts are "per watch" type deals.

Sure it is if we take your word for it and not everything that is available publicly.

You don't think that would have been mentioned in the email that started this entire thread?

 

[BlitzerRadic]

You keep repeating this without posting any proof. It seems unlikely Netflix isn't paying a "per watch" fee.

But Sony doesn't want Netflix to usurp their global syndication business.

Wtf?? Are you purposefully being obtuse? Why would sony complain about not getting paid if netflix is paying?

 

[Dai101]

Why do euros not understand their own shitty companies pay for releases in their own countries? Its fucking insane. YES YOU ARE BLOCKED FROM YOUTUBE SOME SHITTY COMPANY IN YOUR COUNTRY PAID FOR THE RIGHTS TO SHOW IT.

How do you guys not get this?

 

[netBuff]

Sure it is if we take your word for it and not everything that is available publicly.

You don't think that would have been mentioned in the email that started this entire thread?

"Everything that is available publicly" simply doesn't point to "one time upfront fees", no matter how often you repeat this.

And no, I don't think Sony would weaken their own argument - that doesn't make any sense. They aren't obligated to mention any details of their deal with Netflix.

 

[netBuff]

Wtf?? Are you purposefully being obtuse? Why would sony complain about not getting paid if netflix is paying?

Because Netflix weakens their case for selling rights to other entities in other countries (by reducing the content's value) - it's all about making the most amount of money. Not that hard to understand.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

And likewise you've also relinquished any right to give a fuck when Netflix cans your ability to watch US content.

 

[netBuff]

And likewise you've also relinquished any right to give a fuck when Netflix cans your ability to watch US content.

No, that doesn't follow.

 

[Quasar]

Why do euros not understand their own shitty companies pay for releases in their own countries? Its fucking insane. YES YOU ARE BLOCKED FROM YOUTUBE SOME SHITTY COMPANY IN YOUR COUNTRY PAID FOR THE RIGHTS TO SHOW IT.

How do you guys not get this?

I'm not a european, but mostly its the same company selling rights to itself. Just a different office.

 

[systematic]

No, their contracts aren't public. Show me. It's highly likely at least some of their contracts are "per watch" type deals.

Nope. Netflix refuses to share any type of viewership data: Programmers Are Frustrated by a Lack of Netflix Metrics

The lack of data “runs counter to just about everything else in the industry,” added Larry Gerbrandt, principal of the consultancy Media Valuation Partners. “Netflix could say, ‘We’ll renew, but now your content’s older, and we want to pay you less.’ But if the programmers had viewership data that would show that usage is going up, or [is] at least flat, that would counter that argument.”

In fact, not even the people that make and star in Netflix-exclusive shows get to know how successful their shows are with viewers: How Much Is That Netflix Show Worth? Stars Want to Know

It would seem a dream scenario if not for one pesky side effect: A lack of available viewership metrics "makes it hard to negotiate later," she says. "Because it's like, 'I'm a hit -- I think.' "
Kohan's concern is shared by many who work in the increasingly robust digital arena, and it illustrates the growing pains that often come with emerging platforms. Actors and top producers in TV typically renegotiate contracts to provide big pay bumps when their shows become hits, but with Amazon,Hulu, Xbox and even Yahoo pursuing Orange Is the New Black-style programming, their refusal to release traditional viewership data throws a wrench into those talks.

 

[Mr. Mister]

"Everything that is available publicly" simply doesn't point to "one time upfront fees", no matter how often you repeat this.

And no, I don't think Sony would weaken their own argument - that doesn't make any sense. They aren't obligated to mention any details of their deal with Netflix.

I'm done. You don't get to just make up things on a hunch to support your case. Though I guess it must make your "arguements" much easier.

 

[K' Dash]

Why do euros not understand their own shitty companies pay for releases in their own countries? Its fucking insane. YES YOU ARE BLOCKED FROM YOUTUBE SOME SHITTY COMPANY IN YOUR COUNTRY PAID FOR THE RIGHTS TO SHOW IT.

How do you guys not get this?

Yeah, I'd like to see you in their situation, would you just turn off your computer and not see the content? Pls, The hypocrisy here is through the roof.

 

[Raistlin]

People are still bitching at Sony in this thread?


lol. The ignorance is deep.

 

[Dead]

Yeah, I'd like to see you in their situation, would you just turn off your computer and not see the content? Pls, The hypocrisy here is through the roof.

They can watch their own content.

Why are we Americans not raising up a stink about European video and audio content not being made available to us? Surely there are services there we are not privy to.

Spoiler

this post may be slightly facetious. Slightly.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

No, that doesn't follow.

I'd like to know why it doesn't.

 

[K' Dash]

And likewise you've also relinquished any right to give a fuck when Netflix cans your ability to watch US content.

Oh no! Where will I get my content?

Oh yeah, there are millions of sites a few clicks away.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Oh no! Where will I get my content?

Oh yeah, there are millions of sites a few clicks away.

You're welcome to illegal stuff. You go buddy. We're all thoroughly impressed.

 

[captainraincoat]

They dont realize that they will never get around vpns and as for signing up...you can buy yearly netflix cards off ebay

its sony and other large film studios that need to realise their outdated distribution models do not work and perhaps should start looking to the future instead of trying to stop something they can never really stop

 

[Mr. Mister]

Oh no! Where will I get my content?

Oh yeah, there are millions of sites a few clicks away.

Cool you'll pirate and content providers won't see any money - just like it is now.

 

[netBuff]

Nope. Netflix refuses to share any type of viewership data:

That doesn't mean what you think it means and doesn't preclude "per watch" type deals from existing - they just aren't sharing with industry tracking services. "Per watch" deals are still highly likely.

I'm done. You don't get to just make up things on a hunch to support your case. Though I guess it must make your "arguements" much easier.

I assume not having any supporting evidence isn't strengthening your case?

People are still bitching at Sony in this thread?


lol. The ignorance is deep.

Sony isn't the one to support in this one.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

People are still bitching at Sony in this thread?


lol. The ignorance is deep.

It's Sony that's threatening to take down what we are cherishing. Why does it surprise you that we are angry at Sony?

 

[numble]

That doesn't mean what you think it means and doesn't preclude "per watch" type deals from existing - they just aren't sharing with industry tracking services. "Per watch" deals are still highly likely.



I assume not having any supporting evidence isn't strengthening your case?



Sony isn't the one to support in this one.

No, read the article again. The producers don't know the watch data so they can't say, "more people are watching, we want to get paid more."

 

[netBuff]

I'd like to know why it doesn't.

A conundrum for the ages.

 

[K' Dash]

Cool you'll pirate and content providers won't see any money - just like it is now.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, I didn't say I would download anything without paying for it first.

 

[Marty Chinn]

It's Sony that's threatening to take down what we are cherishing. Why does it surprise you that we are angry at Sony?

Ya, bad on Sony for trying to protect their content from another company profiting on something they haven't paid for.

 

[netBuff]

No, read the article again. The producers don't know the watch data so they can't say, "more people are watching, we want to get paid more."

No, read the article again. Producers not knowing the popularity of their show to strengthen their own negotiating position (through tracking services) doesn't mean the studio selling to Netflix isn't getting paid per watch. Different entities with different interests.

Ya, bad on Sony for trying to protect their content from another company profiting on something they haven't paid for.

Again with the supposition! Strange Sony isn't claiming they aren't getting paid for "fake" overseas views ...

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Yeah, I'd like to see you in their situation, would you just turn off your computer and not see the content? Pls, The hypocrisy here is through the roof.

Lol reminds me of the thread where the food stamps people abused a glitch, and then people getting all high and mighty about how they would never do that. Then literally the next day there was a Walmart glitch throughout their entire site, selling 40-inch TVs for $100 and those very same people who were all snooty were buying in on it. Some people don't know when they're spewing shit. It's easy to be high and mighty when you're not the one getting screwed over.

Ya, bad on Sony for trying to protect their content from another company profiting on something they haven't paid for.

Netflix bought the rights to stream, Sony has already been paid. If they want to be paid more then put it on other country's Netflix. But guess what? This step never happens. The rest of the world is always left in the dark.

 

[Mr. Mister]

That doesn't mean what you think it means and doesn't preclude "per watch" type deals from existing - they just aren't sharing with industry tracking services. "Per watch" deals are still highly likely.

Why are the highly likely and where is your evidence?

Netflix doesn't care about you, how do you not understand that? If they cared they'd support your country instead of forcing you into convoluted workarounds that break their own tos.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

A conundrum for the ages.

It sounds like you're obtusely chastising me for supposing what the terms of their agreement might be whilst also yourself guessing what the terms of their agreement might be. I'm impressed. You should use one word to answer me next time and I'd bow at your feet.

 

[netBuff]

Why are the highly likely and where is your evidence?

Netflix doesn't care about you, how do you not understand that? If they cared they'd support your country instead of forcing you into convoluted workarounds that break their own tos.

Sony not mentioning this should give you a hint they are likely getting paid for these views but are interested in protecting their existing syndication scheme that monetizes international views better.

 

[numble]

No, read the article again. Producers not knowing the popularity of their show to strengthen their own negotiating position (through tracking services) doesn't mean the studio selling to Netflix isn't getting paid per watch. Different entities with different interests.

No, please read it again. They are talking about the studios negotiating position with Netflix.

But a little bloom is off the rose. Frustration with Netflix has set in as programmers renegotiate contract renewals (to the tune of more than $7 billion, according to some estimates).

“The biggest concerns are about getting sufficient metrics about how their product is being consumed,” said Bruce Lazarus, CEO of Media Audits International (MAI), which helps programmers validate the subscriber information they receive from distribution platforms. “When you want to sell your content to the platforms, what’s the proper pricing model?”

“We get a little information about which of our products are being watched on Netflix, but we get no data about who exactly is watching our shows,” noted John Kampfe, CFO of Turner Broadcasting System.
Netflix declined to speak with Adweek for this story.

“Oftentimes data is limited to stream starts and/or unique users, and neither provide meaningful insight into the value of a programmer’s content,” said Richard Taub, svp of broadcast and digital services at MAI. There’s no standard definition of stream starts; it could mean someone merely hit “play” and watched for either two seconds or two hours.

The lack of data “runs counter to just about everything else in the industry,” added Larry Gerbrandt, principal of the consultancy Media Valuation Partners. “Netflix could say, ‘We’ll renew, but now your content’s older, and we want to pay you less.’ But if the programmers had viewership data that would show that usage is going up, or [is] at least flat, that would counter that argument.”

“The places we have to go to find [usage data for Netflix] are either private research companies that field panels, which you pay a lot of money to maintain, or we can do surveys. But surveys are notoriously unreliable,” said one network executive. That person notes that some Netflix rivals, like Hulu (which is owned by programmers and therefore more transparent) and iTunes (which is a pay-to-play model) aren’t as problematic.

 

[Mr. Mister]

Sony not mentioning this should give you a hint they are likely getting paid for these views but are interested in protecting their existing syndication scheme that monetizes international views better.

lol. How is that proof? They also didn't mention that they aren't getting free snow cones out of the deal - clearly there are snow cones being exchanged.

 

[netBuff]

No, please read it again. They are talking about the studios negotiating position with Netflix.

Yes, no data at all!

“Oftentimes data is limited to stream starts and/or unique users, and neither provide meaningful insight into the value of a programmer’s content,” said Richard Taub, svp of broadcast and digital services at MAI. There’s no standard definition of stream starts; it could mean someone merely hit “play” and watched for either two seconds or two hours.

They are interested in demographic data, and Netflix doesn't share that type of information.

lol. How is that proof? They also didn't mention that they aren't getting free snow cones out of the deal - clearly there are snow cones being exchanged.

They would mention this as it would greatly strengthen their position.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Because Netflix weakens their case for selling rights to other entities in other countries (by reducing the content's value) - it's all about making the most amount of money. Not that hard to understand.

Youre right, its not hard to understand. Sony is not making any money from netflix even though netflix is using sony's content.