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Sony: PlayStation 4 has shipped 86.1 million worldwide

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
OsirsisBlack personally killed this thread. We were all having fun discussing PS4 sales and then he hit us with a rumor bomb but never lit the fuse. It's a dud.

Yep he could have just asked for a Mod and never mentioned he had PS5 info.

He knows how many of us would love ANY kind of info on that subject so to me anyhow just the mention of that was kind of attention seeking.

Sorry to feel that way was just handled poorly.
 

bigedole

Member
You guys need to chill. If he has inside info, let him handle it the way he thinks is the most appropriate. Pestering and criticizing him like this is pointless, and worse might actually convince a legitimate insider not to bother with our community. Don't have to put him on a pedestal, just be indifferent until he delivers, and if he doesn't he'll just fade away into a distant memory.
 

onQ123

Member
Yep he could have just asked for a Mod and never mentioned he had PS5 info.

He knows how many of us would love ANY kind of info on that subject so to me anyhow just the mention of that was kind of attention seeking.

Sorry to feel that way was just handled poorly.


I don't think he was looking for attention , from what I have seen he only post about this stuff when he actually has info then move on.
 

onQ123

Member
When you are leaking info it's smart not to leak info that only you & your close associates have & check around to see if the info is in other hands so it don't lead back to you.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives


HOLD ON!!!! Going by this data it's as if Sony hasn't even STARTED to spend R&D money on the next console or VR headset. You can see in the years of 2000, 2004, 2005, and 2012 that R&D money took down profits a little bit. Now the profits are going straight up with no down in sight.
 

Blam

Member
HOLD ON!!!! Going by this data it's as if Sony hasn't even STARTED to spend R&D money on the next console or VR headset. You can see in the years of 2000, 2004, 2005, and 2012 that R&D money took down profits a little bit. Now the profits are going straight up with no down in sight.
They already spent it in Q1 it dipped not as much because clearly not much R&D needs to be done when you're not creating your own cpu/gpu or really any of it at that point.
 

FranXico

Member
HOLD ON!!!! Going by this data it's as if Sony hasn't even STARTED to spend R&D money on the next console or VR headset. You can see in the years of 2000, 2004, 2005, and 2012 that R&D money took down profits a little bit. Now the profits are going straight up with no down in sight.
It's hard to tell because the main source of revenue has changed. Keep in mind, R&D for the PS4 must have been considerably cheaper than for the PS3 (Sony practically funded Cell R&D by themselves). I expect the same to be true for the PS5.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
They already spent it in Q1 it dipped not as much because clearly not much R&D needs to be done when you're not creating your own cpu/gpu or really any of it at that point.

Oh okay. But as you can see it dipped so small that it's not even noticeable if you lump that quarter into the fiscal year numbers.

It's hard to tell because the main source of revenue has changed. Keep in mind, R&D for the PS4 must have been considerably cheaper than for the PS3 (Sony practically funded Cell R&D by themselves). I expect the same to be true for the PS5.

True...true. So O onQ123 I respect your forward-looking knowledge when it comes to this stuff (were you on B3D like waaaay back in the day?). Would you say that going by these profit numbers, that Sony could release a PS5 in the November of 2019 and decide to take a loss on each console sold "KNOWING" that they'll recoup that money easy using PSN/PS+/PS Network sales?

As an example couldn't Sony put out a console in 2019 that "should" be sold for $500, but they decide to eat $100 and take that loss so that when the Xbox 3 comes out it's close to the same tech wise? Sony is making almost TOO much money in the Games business now. At this point, Sony needs to START taking some real risk with the Playstation brand!
 

Blam

Member
Oh okay. But as you can see it dipped so small that it's not even noticeable if you lump that quarter into the fiscal year numbers.



True...true. So O onQ123 I respect your forward-looking knowledge when it comes to this stuff (were you on B3D like waaaay back in the day?). Would you say that going by these profit numbers, that Sony could release a PS5 in the November of 2019 and decide to take a loss on each console sold "KNOWING" that they'll recoup that money easy using PSN/PS+/PS Network sales?

As an example couldn't Sony put out a console in 2019 that "should" be sold for $500, but they decide to eat $100 and take that loss so that when the Xbox 3 comes out it's close to the same tech wise? Sony is making almost TOO much money in the Games business now. At this point, Sony needs to START taking some real risk with the Playstation brand!

Nah Sony won't be taking risks they are gonna sit pretty till shit starts dipping. I can guarentee next gen or really even next year Xbox wants to and from all I'm hearing they are gonna go balls deep on pushing stuff for 2019. I hope what I"m hearing is true, and it'll make things a lot more interesting if they do.
Sony has been slowly fucking things up with the censorship, and their username platform I'm guaranteeing a takeover by microsoft in a big way.
 
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MDSLKTR

Member
Sony has been slowly fucking things up with the censorship, and their username platform I'm guaranteeing a takeover by microsoft in a big way.
So the pedo censorship is the new concern trolling after crossplay. What a time to be alive
 

Blam

Member
So the pedo censorship is the new concern trolling after crossplay. What a time to be alive

It's not my concern but basically anyone who uses a PS4 in Japan publically outcried that they were going to be moving to Nintendo because of this.

Xbox could take this chance to capitalize on that, but that's up to them. Get your pedo bullshit out of here. If they censor anime games, then they don't can easily just censor anything else on the platform.
 
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LordOfChaos

Member
If the PS5 doesn't just integrate this momentum with full BC...

176-1shoot_yourself_in_the_foot.jpg
 

SonGoku

Member
So the pedo censorship is the new concern trolling after crossplay. What a time to be alive
Its not just the loli bs, there are games with adult looking women censored as well
I don't particularly care about such games but i don't support the censor practice because it sets a bad precedence
 

onQ123

Member
Oh okay. But as you can see it dipped so small that it's not even noticeable if you lump that quarter into the fiscal year numbers.



True...true. So O onQ123 I respect your forward-looking knowledge when it comes to this stuff (were you on B3D like waaaay back in the day?). Would you say that going by these profit numbers, that Sony could release a PS5 in the November of 2019 and decide to take a loss on each console sold "KNOWING" that they'll recoup that money easy using PSN/PS+/PS Network sales?

As an example couldn't Sony put out a console in 2019 that "should" be sold for $500, but they decide to eat $100 and take that loss so that when the Xbox 3 comes out it's close to the same tech wise? Sony is making almost TOO much money in the Games business now. At this point, Sony needs to START taking some real risk with the Playstation brand!


They will probably take a small lost in the beginning & look forward at the price dropping on the hardware they will be using. I also think everyone will be trying to lock consumers into their ecosystems so you might not have to buy a PS5 to play PS5 games.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
They will probably take a small lost in the beginning & look forward at the price dropping on the hardware they will be using. I also think everyone will be trying to lock consumers into their ecosystems so you might not have to buy a PS5 to play PS5 games.

Now the bolded will be crazy. I hope they don't do this.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why? Just like MS, they are now making the most money from services. Why not give people the option?
Fans will still be able to buy the console.

I don't trust that we are going to get the same "type" of games if they have to run on a server farm. Unless those games running on a server are using PS5 internal tech.....then I guess I wouldn't mind that then. I just want developers to be able to make games like they do now.

If Sony is the one flipping the switch to make the game run on a PC or a phone, instead of a PS5 then I wouldn't mind that.
 
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I don't trust that we are going to get the same "type" of games if they have to run on a server farm. Unless those games running on a server are using PS5 internal tech.....then I guess I wouldn't mind that then. I just want developers to be able to make games like they do now.

If Sony is the one flipping the switch to make the game run on a PC or a phone, instead of a PS5 then I wouldn't mind that.

Microsoft is far more likely with Project xCloud to make their games run on console, PC, phone & tablet than Sony. You need a global, hyperscale cloud infrastructure. Guess who have it? Amazon, Google & Microsoft. Not Sony.
 
They will probably take a small lost in the beginning & look forward at the price dropping on the hardware they will be using. I also think everyone will be trying to lock consumers into their ecosystems so you might not have to buy a PS5 to play PS5 games.

I think we won't see PS5 only games for years. Next generation will just move to 4K as standard which will leave plenty of space for PS4 version of those games.

I fully expect it will be even more like PC gaming - PS5 top end machine - everything ultra, PS4 - low end , PS4 Pro - middle ground.

We might see consoles moving into Apple style releases when you have PS5, PS4Pro and PS4 on the market and then when PS5Pro is released it takes places at the top while PS5 replaces PS4Pro and PS4Pro takes place of PS4 with oldest one being discontinued.
 

onQ123

Member
I think we won't see PS5 only games for years. Next generation will just move to 4K as standard which will leave plenty of space for PS4 version of those games.

I fully expect it will be even more like PC gaming - PS5 top end machine - everything ultra, PS4 - low end , PS4 Pro - middle ground.

We might see consoles moving into Apple style releases when you have PS5, PS4Pro and PS4 on the market and then when PS5Pro is released it takes places at the top while PS5 replaces PS4Pro and PS4Pro takes place of PS4 with oldest one being discontinued.
The 4K market isn't really big enough to carry a whole new generation. if PS5 is just PS4 games in 4K there is no need of launching a new generation for it they could just make another PS4 Pro , for PS5 to work it's gonna have to sell to people who also have HDTV.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why? it's not for everyone but it will give the devs a bigger install base to make their money back on big games.

Will devs have to make any other adjustments to their games to make this work? If not, then I'm okay with it. I just want my PS5 games to be made with the actual PS5 in mind. Not to "scale" with a render farm of PCs in a warehouse.
 

SonGoku

Member
The 4K market isn't really big enough to carry a whole new generation. if PS5 is just PS4 games in 4K there is no need of launching a new generation for it they could just make another PS4 Pro , for PS5 to work it's gonna have to sell to people who also have HDTV.
Exactly, people seem to forget the paradigm shift a new gen brings
 
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nowhat

Member
I would love to see PS5 offer 1440p and 120hz options like Xbox has since some of us play on PC Monitors.
Users using a monitor: a niche. Users using a 1440p monitor: a niche within a niche. Users using a 1440p monitor with a 120Hz refresh rate: a niche within a niche within a niche.

While I maybe could see native 1440p being supported (even though it is a tiny, tiny fraction of the users), I wouldn't hold my breath for 120Hz output. Nor that the games would be able to support so high refresh rates.

Seriously, if you're after so specific output resolution and refresh rate, get a PC.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
You guys are confusing HZ with refresh rates and frames per second.

A console running at 120hz benefits every game out there with reduced input lag.
 

nowhat

Member
A console running at 120hz benefits every game out there with reduced input lag.
Uhh, ok... the original Playstation ran at 33.8688 MHz. In case you're not familiar with the SI system, "M" stands for 10^6, i.e. million. Something running at 120Hz wouldn't be able to do anything, at least so far as modern consoles are concerned.

Seriously, you will have to elaborate what you're talking about, because I have no idea.

Edit: ah, you're talking about accepting input at 120Hz? But that wouldn't be "a console running at a certain frequency". Any modern input bus/OS will be able to match that, it's up to the games to support it. Still, if the game/rendering logic runs at a lower rate, there is little point accepting input that vastly exceeds that.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Uhh, ok... the original Playstation ran at 33.8688 MHz. In case you're not familiar with the SI system, "M" stands for 10^6, i.e. million. Something running at 120Hz wouldn't be able to do anything, at least so far as modern consoles are concerned.

Seriously, you will have to elaborate what you're talking about, because I have no idea.

Edit: ah, you're talking about accepting input at 120Hz? But that wouldn't be "a console running at a certain frequency". Any modern input bus/OS will be able to match that, it's up to the games to support it. Still, if the game/rendering logic runs at a lower rate, there is little point accepting input that vastly exceeds that.

Xbox currently supports 120 hz.

This guy explains it better then me.

https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4070
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Edit: ah, you're talking about accepting input at 120Hz? But that wouldn't be "a console running at a certain frequency". Any modern input bus/OS will be able to match that, it's up to the games to support it. Still, if the game/rendering logic runs at a lower rate, there is little point accepting input that vastly exceeds that.

I was wondering if that 120Hz would be necessary.
 

nowhat

Member

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
...and quoting the last message from the thread:


You were selective in what you wanted to pull out of that final message or just missed it as he was quoting then replying to that statement.

The good news.... It is going to be centralized.

If you select "720p" in the centrallized settings, it stays in 720p for all games.

If you select "1080p" it stays at 1080p even if the games downscale, the signal stays 1080p (with the low-rez upscaled).

The same is for the upcoming 120Hz setting -- if you select 120Hz centrally, it stays at 120Hz signal, even if the framerate stays down at 30fps or 60fps. (Benefit: Lower lag). Just like if you select 1080p centrally, it stays at 1080p signal, even if the resolution is downrezzed. (Benefit: Looks better than 720p). Same centralization thing.

That's the plan.
 

nowhat

Member
....That's the plan.
I tried really hard to parse what you mean, but was unable to. Here is a link from Windows Central, which does state that yes, Xbox will/does support 120Hz refresh rate. Optionally with VRR.

A choice quote:
But even with the feature, don't expect system-wide improvements. Many Xbox One titles are developed with hardcoded frame-rate limits, set between 30Hz and 60Hz. While some games are developed with uncapped frame rates, expect many games to see no changes. We recommend researching your favorite titles for details on frame rate settings.

And nowhere is there anything about "centralized resolutions or whatnot". The first link you provided was about Windows PCs, not Xbox One. Unless you provide some more tangible evidence about what on earth all these "centralized resolutions" mean (I honestly don't understand what you are trying to say), I'm going to go with you have no idea what you are talking about.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
oh then i see no harm in supporting such feature even if its niche, it wouldn't cost nothing so why not

Its really a great feature on my Xbox One X paired with my 1440p 120hz monitor and I love it.

Heck even a Sony game MLB The Show 18 has a 1440p option.
 

nowhat

Member
Heck even a Sony game MLB The Show 18 has a 1440p option.
Oh sweet summer child. MLB has the option to RENDER at 1440p. This will guarantee a more consistent frame rate, as opposed to using native 2160p rendering. However, the console will output either 1080p (which means the 1440p render will be supersampled) or 2160p (which means the 1440p render will be upscaled). PS4, Pro or not, is capable of outputting only 720p, 1080i, 1080p or 2160p (Pro only). I dare you to prove otherwise. Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about, you're just tossing out technobabble like an engineer in Star Trek.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Oh sweet summer child. MLB has the option to RENDER at 1440p. This will guarantee a more consistent frame rate, as opposed to using native 2160p rendering. However, the console will output either 1080p (which means the 1440p render will be supersampled) or 2160p (which means the 1440p render will be upscaled). PS4, Pro or not, is capable of outputting only 720p, 1080i, 1080p or 2160p (Pro only). I dare you to prove otherwise. Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about, you're just tossing out technobabble like an engineer in Star Trek.

I never said PS4 output in 1440p I said the game has that option.

Thanks for pointing out the rest of that though but trust me I knew that.

And sorry trying to explain the difference between a console running at 120 hz vs a game running at 120 fps is considered technobabble for some.
 

nowhat

Member
And sorry trying to explain the difference between a console running at 120 hz vs a game running at 120 fps is considered technobabble for some.
So please do explain what the fuck "Just like if you select 1080p centrally, it stays at 1080p signal, even if the resolution is downrezzed" means. That is technobabble, unless you're able to translate it into English.

Seriously. You have a link to a page relating to PC gaming. I provided a link that explains how Xbox works. Here it is once again, and I think WindowsCentral is more of an authority instead of a random forum: https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-one-120hz
 
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HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
I tried really hard to parse what you mean, but was unable to. Here is a link from Windows Central, which does state that yes, Xbox will/does support 120Hz refresh rate. Optionally with VRR.

A choice quote:


And nowhere is there anything about "centralized resolutions or whatnot". The first link you provided was about Windows PCs, not Xbox One. Unless you provide some more tangible evidence about what on earth all these "centralized resolutions" mean (I honestly don't understand what you are trying to say), I'm going to go with you have no idea what you are talking about.

Oh and that post from Blur Busters was on the Xbox forums directly talking about the 120 hz update and I trust that guy knows what he is talking about.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
So please do explain what the fuck "Just like if you select 1080p centrally, it stays at 1080p signal, even if the resolution is downrezzed" means. That is technobabble, unless you're able to translate it into English.

Seriously. You have a link to a page relating to PC gaming. I provided a link that explains how Xbox works. Here it is once again, and I think WindowsCentral is more of an authority instead of a random forum: https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-one-120hz


I will give you another post of his on the subject:

One important consideration: Input lag

60fps @ 120Hz has much less VSYNC ON input lag than 30fps @ 60Hz on the same display.

Frames refreshed faster onto the screen surface. Instead of a 30fps frame being scanned-out onto the panel in 1/60sec, you now have a 30fps frame scanned-out onto the panel in 1/120sec.

That _really_ makes a big difference.

Also, VRR ranges needs to be huge so that you don't get the VSYNC ON input-lag increase effect at 60 frames per second. You need to run at framerates below VRR maximum, to fully eliminate the backpressure input lag that is common to VSYNC ON or when hitting maximum framerate on a VRR monitor.

As people know from the various GSYNC articles on Blur Busters, we cap a few frames per second below max Hz. We were the world's first to measure the input lag of variable refresh rates back in year 2012 ... (FreeSync is a variable refresh rate tech, similar to GSYNC). So, 60fps would have no VSYNC ON lag due to it never being VRR max. So 60fps FreeSync has much less input lag if the FreeSync monitor is at least approximately ~61Hz or higher (preferably ~65Hz or higher).

So giving consoles 120Hz + VRR is a two-way input-lag fix:
--> Reduction in input lag from faster 120Hz refresh cycles of 30fps or 60fps content; AND
--> Reduction in input lag from no longer hitting VRR maximum.

Just one of the two is a big lag reduction. Having both is having cake and eating it too.
Low-lag 30fps and low-lag 60fps FTW!
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
So your argument boils down to "I trust that guy". Right. Well, I guess you win this round.

Yeah the Chief of one of the most respected sites around who knows his shit vs someone who refuses to attempt to learn something new?

Yeah, I trust this guy.
 

nowhat

Member
Oh and that post from Blur Busters was on the Xbox forums directly talking about the 120 hz update and I trust that guy knows what he is talking about.
And also you failed to address this, from Windows Central:

"Many Xbox One titles are developed with hardcoded frame-rate limits, set between 30Hz and 60Hz. While some games are developed with uncapped frame rates, expect many games to see no changes."

If there's a software cap for the frame rate... can you read what is written above?
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
And also you failed to address this, from Windows Central:

"Many Xbox One titles are developed with hardcoded frame-rate limits, set between 30Hz and 60Hz. While some games are developed with uncapped frame rates, expect many games to see no changes."

If there's a software cap for the frame rate... can you read what is written above?

Sigh, the change is in the reduced input lag, most games themselves are not affected in frame rate changes.

I can show you videos of uncapped frame games running at 120hz on the X but first off if you are on a 60 hz monitor/TV you wont see anything.

Rainbow Six Siege T Hunt comes to mind off the top of my head.

I am really sorry this is hard for you to grasp and if you think 120 hz doesn't help console games great, I can't help you but we need to get this thread back on the real topic here.

Where is my silly PS5 leaked info???
 

thelastword

Banned
HOLD ON!!!! Going by this data it's as if Sony hasn't even STARTED to spend R&D money on the next console or VR headset. You can see in the years of 2000, 2004, 2005, and 2012 that R&D money took down profits a little bit. Now the profits are going straight up with no down in sight.
R&D for PS3 was a whopping 4 Billion dollars, it's a shame too, because I would have loved to see what a Dual Cell PS3 would be like, it would definitely be exceedingly more powerful than the subpar GPU Nvidia gave to Sony last minute....

But yes, Sony invested with AMD for Navi, the footprint would be less as AMD already had their roadmap and engineering setup, but with a collaboration, I do expect some great work by these two...Seems a lot of manpower, expertise and money went into Navi with these two combined, so I do expect great things....One thing's for sure, this gen will be one of the few where there will be no rushed or underpowered CPU or GPU.......Nothing like Jaguar (since there was nothing more powerful with the powerdraw requirements) and nothing like retrofitting a weak NV GPU on a console at the last minute, because a doubled cell may have pushed PS3 prices and it's launch even more/further.......

OTOH
I have been watching many videos online on these next gen consoles, if these guys are not "bs'ing", then it seems that things are really taking shape for the next gen consoles.....So many rumor videos of late......
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
R&D for PS3 was a whopping 4 Billion dollars, it's a shame too, because I would have loved to see what a Dual Cell PS3 would be like, it would definitely be exceedingly more powerful than the subpar GPU Nvidia gave to Sony last minute....

But yes, Sony invested with AMD for Navi, the footprint would be less as AMD already had their roadmap and engineering setup, but with a collaboration, I do expect some great work by these two...Seems a lot of manpower, expertise and money went into Navi with these two combined, so I do expect great things....One thing's for sure, this gen will be one of the few where there will be no rushed or underpowered CPU or GPU.......Nothing like Jaguar (since there was nothing more powerful with the powerdraw requirements) and nothing like retrofitting a weak NV GPU on a console at the last minute, because a doubled cell may have pushed PS3 prices and it's launch even more/further.......

OTOH
I have been watching many videos online on these next gen consoles, if these guys are not "bs'ing", then it seems that things are really taking shape for the next gen consoles.....So many rumor videos of late......

I love new tech simply can't wait to see what these new consoles will be capable of.
 
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