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[CurlySaysX]

Delicious.
I hope that magnetic charge port becomes standard across all Sony phones.

 

[Soler]

Because..?

Sounds expensive as shit
No one will buy it

 

[flippedb]

4k? Don't you need something powerful to even decode 4k video?

 

[TacticalFox88]

The thing that blows my mind about cell phones was just three years ago, the iPhone 4 was considered jaw dropping.

How in the fuck did phone tech advance so quickly?

 

[vivftp]

Sounds expensive as shit
No one will buy it

Actually the rumored price is either the same or just above what the Xperia Z launched at so it should be quite affordable compared to other flagships.


Tacticalfox88:
The reason for all this advancement is simple - competition

 

[Perkel]

Hey dude ! Do you want to see something amazing ?
Sure !
I turn camera on and watch my space on phone !
It goes down! 23GB.. 15GB.. 8GB.. out of space !
I know it is amazing !
Dude awesome !
I know.

The thing that blows my mind about cell phones was just three years ago, the iPhone 4 was considered jaw dropping.

How in the fuck did phone tech advance so quickly?

By cutting corners.

 

[Odrion]

Sony is really pushing 4K. Maaaaan. o_o

 

[Talon]

Watching that storage space dwindle down as you shoot a 3 minute 4K video will be hilarious.

The camera sensor is great news. The other stuff, not so much.

 

[tino]

Actually the rumored price is either the same or just above what the Xperia Z launched at so it should be quite affordable compared to other flagships.


Tacticalfox88:
The reason for all this advancement is simple - competition

Any portable gadget that's smaller than a smartphone, its function will be incorporated into a smartphone eventually. Smartphone is stepping over the corpses of PSP and GPS and walking toward P&S.

 

[vivftp]

I have seen pictures of a prototype L version, but it loses the waterproofing and possibly even the large sensor (reverting to a 13MP 1/3" like the Z) but gaining S800 and an AH-IPS screen and a larger battery (~3300mAh).

Not sure when or even if it will be released. I don't think the design is as good as the ZL though.

Cool, thanks for the clarifiction.

A while back a guy on esato had mentioned a "mystery S800 device" that Sony had in the works, so I suppose this is it.

I do wonder if it will be shown at the Paris event on July 4th, or if they'll wait until August/September to do it. I suppose the question is if Honami isn't being shown at the Paris event, then what is? It doesn't make much sense to unveil Z Ultra again IMO and the smartwatch has already been shown. I don't know if Sony would hold an event for low end products, and the invitation they sent out indicates it has something to do with writing on your device.

If I had to take a guess, either a tablet with stylus support like the Z Ultra, or Honami will be shown and have the same handwriting feature.

By cutting corners.

Fortunately I can't find anywhere where Sony has cut corners on Honami. It's got top of the line everything from what it seems. The only place some could complain are the likely non-removable battery and that it likely won't have a 64 gig variant.

 

[Soler]

Actually the rumored price is either the same or just above what the Xperia Z launched at so it should be quite affordable compared to other flagships.


Tacticalfox88:
The reason for all this advancement is simple - competition

Sounds reasonable
I was expecting some crazy 1k price point

 

[vivftp]

Quite honestly I would not be surprised to see such a device with an ultra high price point either. It seems that all the phones being released with above average cameras have mid-range specs to date. I suppose the only upcoming device that'll be able to stand toe to toe with Honami is the Lumia 1020, but I'm not sure if we know if its non-camera specs are all that special or not. As far as I can tell, this phone will be in a class by itself as it'll have the best of everything.

Quite honestly this is what I've been waiting so long to come out so that I can finally upgrade! My ancient Xperia X10a is on the verge of death and upgrading from that to this has me all giddy inside

The thing I'm curious about is how Honamis camera will stack up against last years RX100 Cybershot camera. I have the RX100 and LOVE it to no end, but Honami has a newer sensor and JPEG processing engine. Sure the sensor is smaller, but I wonder if all of that is enough to put Honami in the same league. If so, I might have to consider selling off my RX100

 

[Zaptruder]

Haters gonna hate.

But this thing is God Mode as far as Smart Phones go.

Best in class specs in every concievable check box. This thing is gonna kill the Galaxy line.

 

[vivftp]

I would think Samsung and the other Android OEMs won't sit on their arses until the next wave of flagships next year. I'm sure each and every single one of them will at least have an S800 variant globally out by Fall. The question is are they upping their game on all the other fronts to compete with this beast?

I must say, I can't recall the last time I was this excited about a piece of tech. When Sony launched their Xperia S last year I was excited for about 3 weeks then realized there were compromises. Then came the Xperia T and the same pattern occured. Then came the Xperia Z/ZL and I felt the same way. I REALLY hope all the rumors on Honami are accurate as I don't want to feel that way yet again.

 

[soco]

The 808 was already a 38mp camera phone, so is the 'leg up' just in quality?

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

So I actually really like the simple design of Sony's smartphones, except for that big ol metallic booger they got encrusted onto the side of all of them. What is that exactly? Camera button? Screen lock? It looks like it would pop off with a decent bump, sticking out there like that. Has that happened to anyone?

 

[metalslimer]

Haters gonna hate.

But this thing is God Mode as far as Smart Phones go.

Best in class specs in every concievable check box. This thing is gonna kill the Galaxy line.

I really hope you mean in specs and aren't delusional enough to think sales.

 

[Zaptruder]

I really hope you mean in specs and aren't delusional enough to think sales.

Well, not literally kill the Galaxy line... but it's going to take a fair chunk of its business.

I say this, given that the Xperia Z with all its flaws and foibles has already received a fair number of Galaxy converts.

 

[vivftp]

So I actually really like the simple design of Sony's smartphones, except for that big ol metallic booger they got encrusted onto the side of all of them. What is that exactly? Camera button? Screen lock? It looks like it would pop off with a decent bump, sticking out there like that. Has that happened to anyone?

That would be their new signature power button that they're putting on pretty much all their mobile devices now.

Apparently they ran some studies and found people pushed their power buttons dozens upon dozens of times a day so they decided to put it in a location where your thumb could easily reach it one handed.

It does also help people to identify that it's a Sony device right away.

I've tried the power button on my various friends Xperia Z, ZL and Tablet Z. It feels solid and I don't think I've ever read about anyone having problems with it. IIRC it's made out of aluminum.

 

[hEist]

any information regarding the lens itself? aperture?
give me a decent aperture and i will definitly test it.

 

[vivftp]

Lens info is as follows from esato:

f2.0 28mm equivalent Sony G Lens

 

[Timedog]

YAY, let's sacrifice image quality for resolution that no one will ever use!!! GREAT IDEA.

 

[jtb]

sounds good, fills a niche.

 

[vivftp]

YAY, let's sacrifice image quality for resolution that no one will ever use!!! GREAT IDEA.

You mean just like the 20 megapixel Sony RX100, right? You know, the P&S camera that's widely viewed as one of the best on the market. Apparently the camera sensor in this phone uses a smaller variant of the newer BSI sensor Sony developed for the new RX100 II. Sure it's a smaller sensor, but compare it against others on the market in the pic below (the Fuji has the same size sensor as Honami is rumored to have)

 

[hEist]

Lens info is as follows from esato:

f2.0 28mm equivalent Sony G Lens

woah, that sounds good.
might take a look at it, if it's true.

 

[vivftp]

Ah hell, I might as well post everything that the person on esato said. You'll see that each point has a rating beside it. XR5 means almost certainly correct, and XR4 means rumor from known sources


20 Megapixel Exmor R back illuminated Sensor 2/3" size (XR4)
f2.0 28mm equivalent Sony G Lens (XR5)
Super SteadyShot In Sensor Image Stabilization (XR4)
ISO 50-12800 (XR5)
Dedicated Sony ISP ( Image Signal Processor) (XR5)
Cybershot Camera App (XR5)
Manual Controls (XR4)
All new JPEG engine (XR5)
Additional Camera lens and accessories (XR5)
Xenon Flash/ LED (XR4)
PlayMemories Online Integration (XR5)

 

[Timedog]

You mean just like the 20 megapixel Sony RX100, right? You know, the P&S camera that's widely viewed as one of the best on the market. Apparently the camera sensor in this phone uses a smaller variant of the newer BSI sensor Sony developed for the new RX100 II. Sure it's a smaller sensor, but compare it against others on the market in the pic below (the Fuji has the same size sensor as Honami is rumored to have)

A higher pixel density means lowered image quality, all other things being equal. They are sacrificing image quality so they can put megapixel count on the stat sheet, despite no one actually needing 20 megapixels. Anyone who needs 20 megapixels isn't using a cell phone to take their photos. It makes no fucking sense.

 

[vivftp]

A higher pixel density means lowered image quality, all other things being equal. They are sacrificing image quality so they can put megapixel count on the stat sheet, despite no one actually needing 20 megapixels. Anyone who needs 20 megapixels isn't using a cell phone to take their photos. It makes no fucking sense.

The RX100 proves high pixel count doesn't necssarily mean lower image quality, and that's a 1 year old sensor with an older JPEG algorithm compared to this one.

Also it makes perfect sense for being able to take high resolution crops. There may be other reasons so maybe someone else could discuss it further.

 

[Radec]

A higher pixel density means lowered image quality, all other things being equal. They are sacrificing image quality so they can put megapixel count on the stat sheet, despite no one actually needing 20 megapixels. Anyone who needs 20 megapixels isn't using a cell phone to take their photos. It makes no fucking sense.

The 36mp D800 (Sony made sensor) says Hi.

High MP count can be backed up by a large sensor. See RX100.

 

[Timedog]

The RX100 proves high pixel count doesn't necssarily mean lower image quality, and that's a 1 year old sensor with an older JPEG algorithm compared to this one.

Also it makes perfect sense for being able to take high resolution crops. There may be other reasons so maybe someone else could discuss it further.

How does one specific sensor mean that high pixel count doesn't mean lower image quality? You can have a high pixel density and still take good images, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that they would be better with lower pixel density.

 

[reggieandTFE]

Same here. I have friends who got the ZL and one who got the Z despite me telling them about Honami. They all now have regrets, despite the phones they already have being very good on their own.



Hmm, I wonder how likely it is that Sony will put a 1" sensor into the 2014 flagship.

.

The lens would be fairly huge. It's simple physics. As sensor sizes grow, so will the lenses expected to gather light for those sensors.

 

[vivftp]

What I'm saying Timedog is that it seems Sony has gotten things to the point where what you're saying isn't all that much of a factor anymore. These generation of sensors seem to offer the best of all worlds in terms of image quality and low light performance. It seems they've struck a good balance here. There's no need to lower the resolution as it's already producing class leading results.

Also I keep bringing up the RX100 and its sensor because Honamis sensor is a Jr. version of the one in the RX100 II, which is meant to improve upon the older one. If it were just some other random sensor, I wouldn't bring it up but it seems to be directly relavent.

How about this. Here's a direct quote from Sony about this exact subject you're bringing up:

http://www.robsphotography.co.nz/crop-factor-advantage-appendix-2.html

Question to Sony:

"Why did you want a 20.2-megapixel sensor? I heard that this incredibly high pixel count would negatively impact noise levels, thereby decreasing image quality at high ISO settings.

Answer from Sony:

Ueda (Image Quality Design)

"It’s true that increasing pixel count increases noise. But since we manufacture our own sensors, we can easily tweak sensor specs to suit specific needs. This allowed us to craft a totally new sensor that delivers superbly detailed images with low noise. For high-sensitivity shooting we managed to reduce noise levels below those of existing Cyber-shots by combining technologies from Cyber-shot and α Series. As a result, we can shoot at up to ISO 6400 for normal photos and up to ISO 25600 when using Multi Frame NR."

http://www.sony.com.sg/microsite/cybershot/rx100/index.html

This matter was also discussed further in this DPR forum posting:

"Also in the above statement, Kaimi (Product Design) said this:

"Some compact cameras keep noise down with lower pixel counts. But there are users who really want super-fine images, which require a high pixel count. But if the higher pixel count leads to unacceptable noise levels that the noise reduction system can’t reduce without affecting image quality, it is essentially self-defeating. Our new sensor achieves both super-fine images and low noise so even distant landscapes shot at telephoto focal lengths show great detail. People are going to love this compact camera for travel photography."

Sony seem to know exactly what they're doing here and the results their digital imaging arm have been pumping out for the last year support that. IIRC the digital imaging arm are directly in control of Honamis camera too, so have a little faith man.

 

[KennyLinder]

Leaked video (I think its real!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae9iVRKNPiA

 

[vivftp]

Fake.

Most of that video comes from early vids of the Xperia Z like this series of videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJNI-5Zl0HA

 

[CurlySaysX]

fake. the lenssize and position at the end of the clip is clearly that of an Xperia z.

 

[KennyLinder]

Ah fair enough, it was SonyAlphaRumors is makes sense

 

[Timedog]

What I'm saying Timedog is that it seems Sony has gotten things to the point where what you're saying isn't all that much of a factor anymore. These generation of sensors seem to offer the best of all worlds in terms of image quality and low light performance. It seems they've struck a good balance here. There's no need to lower the resolution as it's already producing class leading results.

Also I keep bringing up the RX100 and its sensor because Honamis sensor is a Jr. version of the one in the RX100 II, which is meant to improve upon the older one. If it were just some other random sensor, I wouldn't bring it up but it seems to be directly relavent.

How about this. Here's a direct quote from Sony about this exact subject you're bringing up:

http://www.robsphotography.co.nz/crop-factor-advantage-appendix-2.html




Sony seem to know exactly what they're doing here and the results their digital imaging arm have been pumping out for the last year support that. IIRC the digital imaging arm are directly in control of Honamis camera too, so have a little faith man.

I'm not saying that they cannot have THE BEST CAMERA EVER MADE with high pixel density, I'm saying that it would be even better with a lower pixel density. The accuracy of a signal is proportional to it's size. Lower pixel density would lead to a more accurate picture. Color accuracy would be increased, dynamic range would be increased, noise would be decreased, low light pictures and video would look better.

Like I said, almost no one buying a cell phone needs 20mp, so sacrificing better IQ in every photo isn't a good tradeoff for a mostly unused feature.

I also doubt that the lens in a cell phone camera with a 1/1.7" sensor is going to even be able to resolve 20mp.

 

[Pepto]

I'm not saying that they cannot have THE BEST CAMERA EVER MADE with high pixel density, I'm saying that it would be even better with a lower pixel density. The accuracy of a signal is proportional to it's size. Lower pixel density would lead to a more accurate picture. Color accuracy would be increased, dynamic range would be increased, noise would be decreased, low light pictures and video would look better.

Like I said, almost no one buying a cell phone needs 20mp, so sacrificing better IQ in every photo isn't a good tradeoff for a mostly unused feature.

I also doubt that the lens in a cell phone camera with a 1/1.7" sensor is going to even be able to resolve 20mp.

Are you saying that if they would use only one pixel in their sensor it would yield the best image quality?

 

[Timedog]

Are you saying that if they would use only one pixel in their sensor it would yield the best image quality?

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.

 

[tino]

I'm not saying that they cannot have THE BEST CAMERA EVER MADE with high pixel density, I'm saying that it would be even better with a lower pixel density. The accuracy of a signal is proportional to it's size. Lower pixel density would lead to a more accurate picture. Color accuracy would be increased, dynamic range would be increased, noise would be decreased, low light pictures and video would look better.

Like I said, almost no one buying a cell phone needs 20mp, so sacrificing better IQ in every photo isn't a good tradeoff for a mostly unused feature.

I also doubt that the lens in a cell phone camera with a 1/1.7" sensor is going to even be able to resolve 20mp.

At this point pixel count almost doean't matter, what matter is sensor size. One example is RX100, it has smaller per pixel size compare to Fuji X20, but it has better overall IQ than the X20. So RX100 still makes better photo than the Fuji X20 due to larger sensor size.

Generally given the same pixel size, with higher pixel count, you don't lose high ISO performance that much. What you lose is dynamic range and color accuracy in exchange of better day time (good light) resolution.

So would I prefer lower pixel count if Sony can maintain the sensor size? Yes I do, I think it will have better color accuracy which benefits photo in any size. However Sony is a sensor producer and has been in the higher pixel count crusades for the last 10+ years so I don't expect this out of Sony. So given the spec sheet without looking at the actual product I think it may not out perform Fuji X20 but definitely can match up to other premium cameras in the class (Panasonic LX7 Olympus ZX2 Canon G15 S110 etc) It still can destroy the like of iPhone and HTC One Nokia 920 with ease. I am just glad somebody finally put a real sensor in an Android phone. I have been asking this for so long I feel I am obligate to buy the phone (if the price is not too crazy).

 

[JaggedSac]

Perhaps they are using all those pixels to do some software interpolation to reduce noise.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

Most computers are not even 4k capable, I have my doubts a phone will shoot 4k video. That's absurd.

 

[Yasir]

I love aggressive Sony. Aggressive Sony (aka often desperate Sony) = Best Sony.

 

[HigXx]

When is this rumoured to be released? Q4 or something? My Xperia S contract is up in March '14 so this could be a nice a replacement unless something better is released after the Honami

 

[tino]

Alleged Sony Xperia 'Honami' specs reveal beefy 20MP camera sensor

We're a little more than a month away from a flood of gadget news at IFA in Berlin, and we have a sneaking suspicion that an imaging centric flagship smartphone from Sony called "Honami" is going to be there. We've seen hints of what the phone's camera UI looks like, and now a leak from the Taiwanese site ePrice says the device has a 20.7-megapixel ExmorRS sensor that's the same size as the one in the Galaxy Camera and other point-and-shoots. It's also paired with a "Sony G-Lens," though hopefully not one as bulbous as some others we've seen. Other specs include a 5-inch 1080p display with the same Triluminos technology that's in the Xperia Z Ultra, Qualcomm's latest Snapdragon 800, 16GB of internal storage that can be expanded with microSD and a fairly massive 3,000mAh battery. If the alleged spec sheet after the jump is to be believed, then the Lumia 1020 and GS4 Zoom might have to face some serious competition.

Well this rumor says 1/2.3" sensor. That's a let down.

If its 1/2.3", Sony already made one of them in their HX300 points and shoot.

 

[mackattk]

I would love to have a phone like this. Have always been interested in Sony android phones, just never had one.

 

[tino]

Sony reportedly close to releasing a high-end camera attachment for smartphones

According to Sony Alpha Rumors, Sony is planning a "lens camera" accessory for mobile devices. The lens camera features the same 1-Inch 20.2-megapixel Exmor R sensor and f/1.8 Carl Zeiss lens as the Sony RX100 II. Sony Alpha Rumors cites "two trusted sources" confirming the lens-camera-hybrid will have a built-in battery, NFC, and Wi-Fi. It'll be able to pair with (and mount onto) a number of smartphones, which will then act as a "live view" screen for the camera.

It has a freak SR5 (most reliable rumor rating)

Ok guys.... I can't tell if its madness or brilliant.

Where would the battery go? How do you handle the connection to make it fast enough for 30 fps live view? It's only a battery and a sd card slot away from a RX100, how much cheaper can it be?

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Yeah I think there's no way they can price it low enough to be feasible.

 

[Somnid]

Interesting seeing this thread again. Even though I thought it was absurd to begin with Nokia came in and one-upped it.

 

[vivftp]

Very intrigued to see if this add on lens will become a reality. There's been talk of add-on lenses for Honami for weeks now, but I always thought it'd be some small clip-on lens like what's available on the iPhone. I never imagined it might be something like this! I'm definately getting Honami so I'll be keeping an eye on this. It might just serve as a replacement for my RX100 camera.

So if the sensor/lens package requires its own battery, I wonder if it'll latch into the magnetic charger on Honami for additional power.