Support NeoGAF

[Crayon Shinchan]

Not really. As pointed out plenty of times, the price advantage didn't help the GC. Success is a combination of many factors, not price alone.

Psychological mindshare means business mindshare.

Sony has had their psychological mindshare completely destroyed in the last 16 months
since the price announcement.

That huge looming $600

Just... you can't compete with that much noise, justified or not.

They need to inform the masses just how awesome their box is; only problem is, it's not something that you can wave around and demonstrate like the Wii.

To demonstrate it right; you need a nice setup, gotta hook it up right, etc, etc. It's tough.

They need to make that demo disc I was talking about; so they could get it running in the shops, and out of the box.

They need to take back that massive negative; the two prices associated with the PS3 $599 and $499 (i.e. 600 and 500) are simply too high for most people. They need to get away from that price range in a solid manner; and $450 is that right price.

They need to impress people when it comes out of the box; the component cable has to be out there. People are stupid. They are so stupid, that they vote for people like George Bush. You think it's easy for them to hook up color coordinated cables to the right holes in the back of the TV? much less go out and buy the right cables? It's not. People aren't just stupid. They're ACTIVELY and WILLFULLY ignorant. And as a result, they need ALL the help they can get.

The Wii train has already steamrolled by. But if they play their cards right; they'll have a fighting chance next round; as long as they take the proactive steps to make sure they're not completely boned this gen.

 

[Yoboman]

I stand corrected...

ps3is****edchart.gif

Now if I was Microsoft I would drop the 360's price right now for about $50 in Japan just to mess with Sony's plans

MS could line the streets of Japan with free Xbox 360s and people would walk right by

 

[Mojovonio]

PS3 Price Drop thread = Xbox 360 selling bad in Japan?

Oh, ok.

I need to get used to this code that we use for thread titles.

 

[Doc Holliday]

My god....For some reason I keep thinking the ps3 is 499.00. and not 599 :lol Even with a hundred dollars off the sob is still too expensive. WTF??

 

[EternalGamer]

My god....For some reason I keep thinking the ps3 is 499.00. and not 599 :lol Even with a hundred dollars off the sob is still too expensive. WTF??

Well technically, you can still find $499 versions out in the wild. My Sam's Club has had some in stock for at least the last 3 months and they just sit there.

 

[Ryu1999]

Not really. As pointed out plenty of times, the price advantage didn't help the GC. Success is a combination of many factors, not price alone.

The Cube didn't have exclusive games that non-Nintendo fans wanted (by the time RE4 came around it was too late), and unlike the Wii, it wasn't different enough from its competitors to warrant its purchase. Additionally it got the short end of the stick when it came to multi-plats

I don't know if I can say the same about PS3. Other than UBI's intitial missteps, PS3 is getting the "good" version for multi-plats, it has exclusives which don't have the dreaded kiddy label (the problem with the Cube). The only problem is its similarity to the 360...but if you asked average Joe 6 pack on the street whether he would rather have a PS3 or a 360 for $399, I think it'd be the former....which comes back to price again

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I don't think sony has a choice anymore or lose way to much marketshare.

The thing is this is a horrible mess, drop the price and see even more layoffs

I wonder if Sony is willing to lose this Gen and keep the rest of the company above water or they get aggressive with the PS3 price cuts and end up sinking the whole ship?

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

The trick is that they need a way to lower that psychological barrier to entry, as you call it, without bankrupting them. Including extra stuff in the box is not the answer. I definitely don't think they should start including the component cables in the box if the goal is to lower the system's price. They need to cut features and sell them as add ons.

Keep the current model as the deluxe model and drop the price $100 ($499). Then introduce a model that is even $100 cheaper ($399) but take out:

-WiFi (sold seperately)
-Emotion Engine (emulation like European version)
-BluRay film playback w/o remote purchase (sell it seperately like the original Xbox)
-Flash memory readers (sold seperately)

Essentially, they should bring back the 20gig model but cut even more features from it and offer it for $399. At that price it will start to sell and even with all that stuff taken out, it is still toe to toe with the "premium" 360.

Taking out Bluray functionality to be added back on with a dongle is an extremely bad idea.

Mainly because the PS3 already comes with everything that it needs for Bluray playback.

But they do need to bring back the 20 gig model; replace it with a 60gig HDD.

A well produced demo disc will be invaluable; it's cost is just the cost of replication, but it'll do a lot to help understanding how the PS3 stands out from the other two (even if you have to beat it over their heads explicitly, it's better than letting it get muddied with retarded This is Living commercials.)

If they do bring back the cheaper model; I'd only recommend a 50 dollar price gap... $400 vs $450.

at least component+composite with the more expensive one.

 

[Mojovonio]

The thing is this is a horrible mess, drop the price and see even more layoffs

I wonder if Sony is willing to lose this Gen and keep the rest of the company above water or they get aggressive with the PS3 price cuts and end up sinking the whole ship?

Yeah, they seem to be in a very tight spot.

But what could they have done? I mean, it would have been great if they just launched something similar in hardware to the 360, but I really don't think they were ready for this generation.

If you're going to sell a $600 piece of hardware, make it worth it right out of the gate. They need how expensive it would be, and they secured what was a launch lineup parallel or even worse to that of the PS2.

Their arrogance got the best of them.

 

[Steroyd]

The Cube didn't have exclusive games that non-Nintendo fans wanted (by the time RE4 came around it was too late), and unlike the Wii, it wasn't different enough from its competitors to warrant its purchase. Additionally it got the short end of the stick when it came to multi-plats

That's why Operations said it was a mix of "other" factors than just the price of the hardware.

I think Sony will ride out the storm until all their Fall releases are launched and if the situation doesn't improve then they'll cut the price, call it a hunch.

 

[EternalGamer]

Taking out Bluray functionality to be added back on with a dongle is an extremely bad idea.

Mainly because the PS3 already comes with everything that it needs for Bluray playback.

Technically, so did the original Xbox. All you were basically buying with the remote was the right to use it as a DVD player. If you hacked the firmware and installed an alternative OS, you could play DVDs w/o the dongle.

I'm not suggesting they have a physical dongle attached the cheaper model. They could just package the remote w/ a CD that has software you install on the PS3 to enable BluRay film playback. I'm not thrilled with the idea either, but it could be a way to lower that psychological price barrier, without them having to bleed so much because people WILL buy those accessories if you sell them separately.

A well produced demo disc will be invaluable; it's cost is just the cost of replication, but it'll do a lot to help understanding how the PS3 stands out from the other two (even if you have to beat it over their heads explicitly, it's better than letting it get muddied with retarded This is Living commercials.)

Why a physical demo disc? They have a harddrive in every unit. Load that dude up with stuff. Perhaps even toss an HD film on it that people could delete if they didn't want. Make a deal with Discovery channel to put the first episode of "Planet Earth" on there w/ an advertisement for the BluRay collection of it at the end. Etc.

 

[EternalGamer]

Yeah, they seem to be in a very tight spot.

But what could they have done? I mean, it would have been great if they just launched something similar in hardware to the 360, but I really don't think they were ready for this generation.

If you're going to sell a $600 piece of hardware, make it worth it right out of the gate. They need how expensive it would be, and they secured what was a launch lineup parallel or even worse to that of the PS2.

Their arrogance got the best of them.

I guess I'm one of the few that think that things aren't so dire for Sony. Yeah, the PS3 is taking longer to start selling. But they are still selling a ton of PS2s and even PSPs. Those are all potential PS3 customers a few years down the line when they actually can afford to start selling them cheaper.

 

[Mojovonio]

I guess I'm one of the few that think that things aren't so dire for Sony. Yeah, the PS3 is taking longer to start selling. But they are still selling a ton of PS2s and even PSPs. Those are all potential PS3 customers a few years down the line when they actually can afford to start selling them cheaper.

I never said anything was dire, but they need to humble themselves and realize that they aren't in a good position. The PS3 is expensive, they can't do anything about that. What they can do is make the PS3 worth the price tag to everyone.

As for the theory that PS2 gamers will move on to the PS3, not many people are that loyal. If they don't see a worth in the PS3, they'll move on to the 360 or even the Wii.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Technically, so did the original Xbox. All you were basically buying with the remote was the right to use it as a DVD player. If you hacked the firmware and installed an alternative OS, you could play DVDs w/o the dongle.

I'm not suggesting they have a physical dongle attached the cheaper model. They could just package the remote w/ a CD that has software you install on the PS3 to enable BluRay film playback. I'm not thrilled with the idea either, but it could be a way to lower that psychological price barrier, without them having to bleed so much because people WILL buy those accessories if you sell them separately.

MS didn't include DVD movie playback in the original Xbox because they would have had to pay licensing fees for every console regardless of whether or not the user ever intended to use it as a DVD player. The licensing issue for movie playback doesn't affect Sony consoles since they are members of the DVD Forum and the BDA.

 

[ThirdEye]

Sony president Ryoji Chubachi told the daily Yomiuri Shimbun.

Does he really have that kind of authority? I understand he has the title president.. but even so this could be a bold decision considering the current losses.

:lol I mean if he's not an authority who is?

 

[Ryu1999]

That's why Operations said it was a mix of "other" factors than just the price of the hardware.

I think Sony will ride out the storm until all their Fall releases are launched and if the situation doesn't improve then they'll cut the price, call it a hunch.

Well in the PS3's case, price IS the determining factor IMO, hence my poo-pooing of the connection to the GC's situation. I know a lot of my friends want a Wii, but those same people wanted to get a PS3, but for the price.

 

[alr1ght]

20GB HDD
No WiFi
No Memory card slots

$450

undercuts the Elite while still having all necessary functionality of the 60GB model. They do not want to make Blu-ray difficult to use, as the PS3 is the trojan horse they want to use to push the format; although they do need to include component cables with it because I'm sure people with HDTV's use the composite cable, because they're ignorant.

 

[Vormund]

Just hurry up and lower the damn price already (in Pal regions at least )

 

[EternalGamer]

As for the theory that PS2 gamers will move on to the PS3, not many people are that loyal. If they don't see a worth in the PS3, they'll move on to the 360 or even the Wii.

Well, Sony has to create that crossover. As I said, it is potential and they need to be taking advantage of it. They should be doing more to promote cross platform marketing. PSP games should come with a code (or some other means) to download and play them on your PS3's harddrive. PS2 games that are re-releases of PSP games should come with the UMDs of the PSP versions. Essentially, if you buy a product for one system, it should have with it an incentive to buy another.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Why a physical demo disc? They have a harddrive in every unit. Load that dude up with stuff. Perhaps even toss an HD film on it that people could delete if they didn't want. Make a deal with Discovery channel to put the first episode of "Planet Earth" on there w/ an advertisement for the BluRay collection of it at the end. Etc.

Mainly because I imagine the demo disc to have instructional information; stuff the user might want to keep. Make it long. make it detailed. Maybe even have it coded as a bit of PS3 software to allow for strong interactivity.

And it may be large enough, where you don't want it cramming the user's PS3 drive with it.

Obviously, they can easily preload demos and trailers on the HDD. Indeed, I think it's a pretty good idea. But some stuff, should be kept.

 

[travisbickle]

If I had a Hi-Def Tele a PS3 would be a no-brainer. Without one I can wait, do you think Sony would've waited till better High Def penetration before launching? If they could.

 

[Mojovonio]

Well, Sony has to create that crossover. As I said, it is potential and they need to be taking advantage of it. They should be doing more to promote cross platform marketing. PSP games should come with a code (or some other means) to download and play them on your PS3's harddrive. PS2 games that are re-releases of PSP games should come with the UMDs of the PSP versions. Essentially, if you buy a product for one system, it should have with it an incentive to buy another.

Exactly. They're kind of doing that with the PS3/PSP functionality though. What I was thinking was more along the lines of franchises.

 

[Proc]

I guess some people are gonna have to man up before it gets all sissy priced

 

[Jocchan]

I'll buy at a high price

WELCOME!

 

[AAK]

I doubt there will be a price cut anytime before new years.

 

[Steroyd]

Well in the PS3's case, price IS the determining factor IMO, hence my poo-pooing of the connection to the GC's situation. I know a lot of my friends want a Wii, but those same people wanted to get a PS3, but for the price.

I remember the PS2 where a fair few people i knew wouldn't touch a PS2 with a barge pole until it was cheaper no matter how much they wanted it, the PS3 isn't going to stay that price forever.

And as long as the PS2 is still live and kicking Sony's situation is far from an unattainable, although Sony taking out the EE chip in PAL land....

 

[DrXym]

Taking out Bluray functionality to be added back on with a dongle is an extremely bad idea.

Quite. It's a stupid idea since it cripples Bluray adoption and cynical consumers will have less reason to buy movies.

A well produced demo disc will be invaluable; it's cost is just the cost of replication, but it'll do a lot to help understanding how the PS3 stands out from the other two (even if you have to beat it over their heads explicitly, it's better than letting it get muddied with retarded This is Living commercials.)

They could even stick a pile of stuff on the HDD and it wouldn't cost them anything (assuming the HDD is imaged anyway). Put Spider-Man 3 on there, promotional videos, demos and some other bits and pieces.

 

[Brofist]

20GB HDD
No WiFi
No Memory card slots

$450

undercuts the Elite while still having all necessary functionality of the 60GB model. They do not want to make Blu-ray difficult to use, as the PS3 is the trojan horse they want to use to push the format; although they do need to include component cables with it because I'm sure people with HDTV's use the composite cable, because they're ignorant.

so basically bring back the 20gb system and give it a $50 price drop?

 

[quetz67]

Price is overrated, I'd still choose $599 for a PS3 over 360 + HD DVD drive + 5 or 6 years of xbox live every day.

Problem right now is the game support, especially in Japan. Japanese usually pay whatever price for a console if it only has the game they desperately want.

Not to say a price drop wouldnt help, but to get out more games (and good bluray movies) is more important.

 

[DSWii60]

The PS3 has already had what can effectively be called a pricedrop in the UK with most retailers selling for £400 or a few (e.g. GAME) are selling at the standard £425 but with a free game. This still hasn't done anything to the sales. Even at £350 (an official pricedrop of £75/$150) in the UK I can't see many people buying it. £300 (£20 more than the 360 at the moment) or bust Sony.

 

[Bodom78]

"possibility "? hell you should be giving them away at this stage.

Sign, oh Sony where did you go wrong.

 

[slade]

Not really. As pointed out plenty of times, the price advantage didn't help the GC. Success is a combination of many factors, not price alone.

I'm not seeing that play out right now. You can't say the draw from Nintendo is their franchises because those same franchises were labeled as stagnant on the GC. The 360 enjoys the majority of the third party support at the moment and it is at best doing mediocre in sales. Sony is coming off a very dominant ten years in the business and they've floundered worse then anybody. And besides, the Wii enjoys a far better advantage in terms of price then the GC ever saw over PS2 and Xbox, core 360 excluded. In the end, the only other factor then price I see is waggle and I'm not convinced Wii's are selling at the rate they are because of waggle.

 

[duk]

$299 baby do it

 

[rs7k]

I don't know much about Sony's financials. but cutting the price too soon for them and taking huge losses would not sit well with Stringer.

I believe the one piece of software that will drive up PS3 adoption, especially in Japan, more than anything else is Gran Turismo 5/Final Fantasy XIII. That'd be a great time to do a price cut, and both games are out relatively soon that they wouldn't to worry too much about getting left in the dust if the 360 doesn't turn out to be the major seller it should be around Xmas with Halo 3.

With that said, the only way for the PS3 to compete in the US is to drop the price anytime between now and late November. The US is Halo-crazy, GTA-crazy and they love their low prices.

 

[The Innocent X]

and both games are out relatively soon

WHA?

 

[Miguga64]

WHA?

WHA? Again!

 

[psy18]

blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda maybe possible just you wait

Talk is cheap. Just do it already.

 

[Rayven]

first rule of price cuts is: you do not talk about price cuts

harrison/kaz correction in 3,2,1...

 

[Evlar]

They'll either retract this statement in short order (really should have been retracted by now, if it's going to happen...) or the price is going to be cut very soon. You don't telegraph a price cut and then fail to deliver, it's one of those things they teach you in Sales 101.

 

[Nick Laslett]

delete

 

[Deleted member 20415]

Alright, couple things.

I don't know much about Sony's financials. but cutting the price too soon for them and taking huge losses would not sit well with Stringer.

1) Stringer is a gaijan - don't forget that. He's head of Sony, but he answers to overlords still. Cutting the price too soon would have been Day 2 of the launch - nearly a year later (this fall) is probably the time they want to make a move - you can write that off as a reward for its "success" to bring in new people - done and done.

I believe the one piece of software that will drive up PS3 adoption, especially in Japan, more than anything else is Gran Turismo 5/Final Fantasy XIII.

2) When did Gran Turismo 5 and Final Fantasy XIII come on one disc? Megaton! Blu-Ray FTW!! Now I'm just being a jerk.

With that said, the only way for the PS3 to compete in the US is to drop the price anytime between now and late November. The US is Halo-crazy, GTA-crazy and they love their low prices.

3) Since when is being price conscious a bad thing?

 

[J2 Cool]

I can't help but only see this revalation in one manner. My feet firmly planted in Lloyd's shoes in this situation.

"I want to ask you a question straight out, flat out, and I want you to give me the answer. What do you think the chances of a system like yours, getting a price cut affordable to a girl like me are?"

"Well that's... That's difficult to say, Lloyd.. We really don't.."

"HIT ME WITH IT! Just give it to me straight. I came along way just to see you Ryoji, the least you could do is level with me."

"What are my chances?"
"..Not good."

"Not good like... one out of a hunrded?"

"I'd say, more like one out of a milion."

"... So you're telling me there's a chance."

"YEEEAH!"

"I read you..."


That said, it's probably better chances than that, and I'm just as excited as Lloyd about it.

 

[Yoboman]

Who's to say they didn't want to drop the price as soon as possible all along? I REALLY doubt they stuck the $600 tag on as a keeper, it's more likely that it's that price because they had to until a lower price was feasible. The lower price is becoming feasible now.

 

[TTP]

I can't help but only see this revalation in one manner..





That said, it's probably better chances than that, and I'm just as excited as Lloyd about it.

:lol

 

[duk]

isn't stringer the president?

 

[quetz67]

...And I'm sure Christmas releases of Pirates 3, Spiderman 3, Fantastic Four 2, Ratatouille, The Simpsons Movie & Die Hard 4 exclusive to Blu-Ray will also help.

Yeah some nice bundles this christmas might do the trick...we early adopters in europe already got a game and a bluray-movie packed in. I dont think it hurt Sony very much but was a nice decision helper

Home, more online content, better online play, improved firmware, PSP connectivity and stuff will help too and it looks like Sony is much more commited getting stuff like that right. The package of features called PS3 is just getting more attractive as time goes by.

 

[Odysseus]

$299 or bust

 

[RavenFox]

Sony president Ryoji Chubachi told the daily Yomiuri Shimbun.

Does he really have that kind of authority? I understand he has the title president.. but even so this could be a bold decision considering the current losses.

your on a roll eh.

 

[Evlar]

isn't stringer the president?

Stringer is CEO.

 

[Beer Monkey]

A great demo setup isn't likely to convince people who aren't that comfortable with todays economy. Gas prices are soaring, the housing market is softening, and after you adjust it for inflation and cost of living (including health care) most people are making less than they were a few years ago, especially older people (not young single twentysomethings, as early in your career you typically make bigger advancements) that make household purchasing decisions. People aren't used to game sysytems costing anywhere near this much, and it's really going to get their attention.

PS3 needs a big price cut. Heck, in Japan you can get one for $430.