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(*) Sony PS5 Vs. Xbox Series X Technical Analysis: Why The PS5’s 10.3 TFLOPs Figure Is Misleading

wordslaughter

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I dunno how PS5 cooling solution looks like. Maybe it is a highly effective one. That's why i gave you link and mentioned what Cerny said that we will see it later
It would have to be something so revolutionary that it has never been seen before.

Many PC GPUs have massive heatsinks with 3 fans cooling them. Some PC GPUs are even liquid cooled. None of them can sustain 2.23Ghz.

Bring on the magic Sony. Can't wait to see it.
 

martino

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Worse case scenario, it'll lose a tiny bit of power but literally everyone who's reviewed the architecture on a technical level has said this would be very minimal, barely worth measuring. (I heard something like 50MHZ.....nothing.)
50MHZ seems very optimistic too. he said 2% so more 200mhz
 

Jigga117

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Hi! I'm Mark Cerny. During the presentation at GDC i've mentioned that both GPU and CPU will be at peak frequency most of the time. Thanks!
Hi fake ass Mark Cerny are you trying to say the system isn't boosted from 9.2TF to 10.28TF???

time stamped

His term the worst case game equals the most intensive game meaning the games that are going to take the most advatage of the system is the exclusives which is the worst case scenarios he is talking about. Yes he is talk around this. When you listen to the explanation about issues they ran into with the PS4 and his examples about God of War and Event Horizon. He does say downclocking will happen PER GAME situation.
 
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wordslaughter

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Ok, sorry if I trust the leading designer of this console (and the one before that sold 110M pieces worldwide) more than you.
Feel free to. You obviously don't have a sense for what's currently possible in GPU technology.

It would be like if Cerny claimed that the PS5 CPU was going to run at a locked 6Ghz even though no other CPU in the world runs at that frequency ( without liquid nitrogen ).

doubt.jpg.
 

sonomamashine

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Yeah, and look what Phil Spencer nut huggers did after Reiners tweet and trying spreading the FUD. No Ray Tracing, PS5 is 8 TF and so on. Yuck!. Cheers!
Lol why you keep editing your message ? you've been barking for the past 6+ months "Sony is more powerful, and we will see when it will come out" & kept trashing/insulting people on the next gen thread, your boy Gamernyc78 Gamernyc78 (to name a few) did the same, that thread became ridiculous to watch, you need help, have fun, keep your troll behavior (y)
 

Peenolia010

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Lol there's a SMALLER gap between PS5 - XsX than between Pro and One X, are you trying to pull the wool over people's eyes? How can anyone take you seriously with a line like that.

There's a tiny 16% gap on paper here, but the point is all devs and industry pro have said the same - PS5 is faster than the small flops disparity suggests, so deal with this reality and stop coming out with absurd claims.

The PS5 is faster than the XSX.... with SSD speeds. That's it.
 

it_wasn't_me

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His term the worst case game equals the most intensive game meaning the games that are going to take the most advatage of the system is the exclusives which is the worst case scenarios he is talking about. Yes he is talk around this. When you listen to the explanation about issues they ran into with the PS4 and his examples about God of War and Event Horizon. He does say downclocking will happen PER GAME situation.
I know he said that downclocking will happen, But he said that both GPU and CPU will run at or most of it's time at peak frequency.
 

Jigsaah

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Can I just be an idiot and purchase both. This article makes me feel less than smart going that route.
 

it_wasn't_me

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Lol why you keep editing your message ? you've been barking for the past 6+ months "Sony is more powerful, and we will see when it will come out" & kept trashing/insulting people on the next gen thread, your boy Gamernyc78 Gamernyc78 (to name a few) did the same, that thread became ridiculous to watch, you need help, have fun, keep your troll behavior (y)
Because i've needed to edited it??? Of course i was barking. Everyone have their preferred sources for rumours. LOL The same crap you, Xbox fans, did the same thing, even in much higher volume. Man, TimDog was really fun to read. His posts were funny actually. No, you, Xone fans didn't trashed and insult people? Funny thing is, Xbox fans still doing it after Cerny presentation. Just look in ban section how many Xbox fans are banned. For what? Because XSX is 12 TF maybe. You have your most powerful console. But i guess, that isn't enough for you. Well, you created that thread for exactly that reason. It's not enough
 
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sonomamashine

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Because i've needed to edited it??? Of course i was barking. Everyone have their preferred sources for rumours. LOL The same crap you, Xbox fans, did the same thing, even in much higher volume. Man, TimDog was really fun to read. His posts were funny actually. No, you, Xone fans didn't trashed and insult people? Funny thing is, Xbox fans still doing it after Cerny presentation. Just look in ban section how many Xbox fans are banned. For what? Because XSX is 12 TF maybe. You have your most powerful console. But i guess, that isn't enough for you.
You needed to edit some of your frustration, it's ok don't worry, i'm not an xbox fan at all, i just call BS when i see it or mention product (A) is weaker than product (B), you have the numbers you can re-check them out, nothing to hide here.
Your claim about me & xbox fans said things at a higher volume is subjective but i'll invite you again to check YOUR & MY history posts (have a good read), i didn't trashed & didn't insulted nobody, i'm purely OBJECTIVE, and i don't care about Xbox fans, we are talking about our behavior (me & you).
Notice how you slide "Xbox fanboys" in almost every post you make, and for your information i'm buying a PS5.
 

it_wasn't_me

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You needed to edit some of your frustration, it's ok don't worry, i'm not an xbox fan at all, i just call BS when i see it or mention product (A) is weaker than product (B), you have the numbers you can re-check them out, nothing to hide here.
Your claim about me & xbox fans said things at a higher volume is subjective but i'll invite you again to check YOUR & MY history posts (have a good read), i didn't trashed & didn't insulted nobody, i'm purely OBJECTIVE, and i don't care about Xbox fans, we are talking about our behavior (me & you).
Notice how you slide "Xbox fanboys" in almost every post you make, and for your information i'm buying a PS5.
I didn't even implied you as an individual Xbox fan. I've said "fans" didn't i? You, Xbox fans here, were ( and still are ) pretty loud. Bunch of Xbox fans were banned. If you didn't trashed and insulted anybody, good, neither i did, otherwise, i would be banned. You, yes you, objective, em.....no. This thread just proves it. As your one of the posts "PS5 is a 9.2 TF machine (Which isn't!) " proves it. I really don't care if you buying a PS5.
 

SLB1904

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I listened to Cerny, I will just wait for an in depth analysis by places like DF WHEN THEY GET THE ACTUAL CONSOLE to draw conclusions, Cerny’s presentation was embarrassing. Compare what he was saying in the ps4 presentation with what he said for the ps5, both presentations are available on Youtube. When he talks about how meaningless TF are and how he dislikes a big number of CU (!!!!!!!!) he legitimately gave me a smile. Silence is golden sometimes.
Sony should give you the job. Sounds like you know more than him.
 

sonomamashine

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I didn't even implied you as an individual Xbox fan. I've said "fans" didn't i? You, Xbox fans here, were ( and still are ) pretty loud. Bunch of Xbox fans were banned. If you didn't trashed and insulted anybody, good, neither i did, otherwise, i would be banned. You, yes you, objective, em.....no. This thread just proves it. As your one of the posts "PS5 is a 9.2 TF machine (Which isn't!) " proves it. I really don't care if you buying a PS5.
Lol you kinda remind me of


concerning Xbox vs Sony fanboys getting banned in NeoGaf is a debatable subject that needs it's own thread, this thread has been derailed quiet enough.
 

it_wasn't_me

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Lol you kinda remind me of


concerning Xbox vs Sony fanboys getting banned in NeoGaf is a debatable subject that needs it's own thread, this thread has been derailed quiet enough.
It isn't debatable when i know what happened in next-gen thread. Majority of my posts are from there. Just "bans" section covers a week maybe.
 

Rightisright

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It's part of the architecture not DX12 alone. For turing:



IF PS5 has full fledged RDNA2 chip it shoud support VRS.
Its not a fully fledged RDNA2 chip, it's a custom RDNA2 chip. Sony's words. They pick and choose what they want to pay AMD royalties for, and ignore the rest.
They have not said they will have VRS on the GPU. At this point they dont have it unless they state they do, and I would have expected them to already have announced it.
 
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it_wasn't_me

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Its not a fully fledged RDNA2 chip, it's a custom RDNA2 chip. Sony's words. They pick and choose what they want to pay AMD royalties for, and ignore the rest.
They have not said they will have VRS on the GPU. At this point they dont have it unless they state they do, and I would have expected them to already have announced it.
VRS is part of RDNA 2. They can use VRS under different name if they want to
 
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siekro1983

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except your not accuratly pointing out what was said on video by the man and what we know. I have said this in the other threads you participated in. The system IS a 9.2TF that by Cerny's words "Boosted" which means overclocked. Which draws more power, more heat. What I don't get is if your goal was to target 10.28(which I believe they only did that due to MS) Why didn't you just put a chip in that did just that instead of boosting it? Just like it has been pointed out the XSX could have been "boosted" as well but they also go in to explaining clearly why the didn't which could have been a 14TF system.
i take it that boost is PR none sense, why invest so much money in never before seen tech, when they could have used a better GPU. the sony hardware team have been embarrassing. lately
 

Neo_game

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The only thing misleading is the article. There is no boost mode. If I remember it will drop only 2% and is pretty insignificant.
 

Rightisright

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VRS is part of RDNA 2. They can use VRS under different name if they want to
No, VRS is an option. MS for instance hasnt used AMDs VRS, they have used their own VRS solution. They didn't have to use AMDs one.
The way this work is that MS and Sony pay AMD for using their feature set. There would be a cost for them to add VRS to their GPU. Sony might not think its worth it, and maybe they have other options available like doing it with their game engines.
But if they had it, they would have announced it to developers at a PS5 developers talk like they just gave.
 
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KEOPM

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Got it, the PS5 contains new magic parts with technology not possible in the PC space.

The most expensive, huge and liquid cooled Nvidia GPUs can't sustain 2.23Ghz ... but the PS5 surely can.

The most expensive, huge and liquid cooled AMD GPUs also can't sustain 2.23Ghz ... but the PS5 surely can.

The XSX GPU which is the EXACT SAME ARCHITECTURE can't sustain 2.23Ghz ... but the PS5 surely can.
Its a SOC, require less power and generate less heat than pc gpu, and heat also has more surface area to spreads around on SOC.
Its a new tech with 7nm size.
Sony custom V-shape heatsink might be bigger than any gpu on the market.

I'm guessing MS doesn't want to spend too much money on R&Ding custom heatsink, that's why the XboxSX looks like a pc mini gaming computer box.
 

martino

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The pc version of PS5 gpu will oc even higher than 2.23ghz.
do we really want a 36 cu at more than 2.23ghz on pc for rdna 2 ?
not for middle end gpu where 5700 is already 36 cu this gen
I see this cu count more at low end in 6500 or 6600 card but at less than 2.23 ghz.
 
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Jigga117

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The only thing misleading is the article. There is no boost mode. If I remember it will drop only 2% and is pretty insignificant.
Curious but if that was the case and it is just 2% why have it variable at all then? Even though in the video Cerny stayed 10%
 
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KEOPM

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except your not accuratly pointing out what was said on video by the man and what we know. I have said this in the other threads you participated in. The system IS a 9.2TF that by Cerny's words "Boosted" which means overclocked. Which draws more power, more heat. What I don't get is if your goal was to target 10.28(which I believe they only did that due to MS) Why didn't you just put a chip in that did just that instead of boosting it? Just like it has been pointed out the XSX could have been "boosted" as well but they also go in to explaining clearly why the didn't which could have been a 14TF system.
Mark said the cpu and gpu runs in variable frequency, and the gpu and cpu will runs most of the time at/close to 2.23 and 3.5.
"That doesn't mean all games will be running at 2.3ghz and 3.5ghz" "When that worse case game arrive, it will run at a lower clock speed" "but not too much lower, to reduce power by 10%" "couple % reduction in frequency" "down clocking to be minor".

So only 2% reduction in frequency in worse case game. Your 9.2tf is false information spread around by hopeful fanboys.
 

longdi

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Ok, sorry if I trust the leading designer of this console (and the one before that sold 110M pieces worldwide) more than you.
So you trust the guy that indirectly said 6tf is not enough for 4K or that PS4p can do insane things with 8tf at half precision?

As much as i like to trust Mark, the latest PS5 saga has made me lose faith in him and current Sony. (and the period leading up to this week fateful GDC)

I feel shameful putting a Phil face as my avatar, but still a win is a win. Im sport.
 
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quest

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Mark said the cpu and gpu runs in variable frequency, and the gpu and cpu will runs most of the time at/close to 2.23 and 3.5.
"That doesn't mean all games will be running at 2.3ghz and 3.5ghz" "When that worse case game arrive, it will run at a lower clock speed" "but not too much lower, to reduce power by 10%" "couple % reduction in frequency" "down clocking to be minor".

So only 2% reduction in frequency in worse case game. Your 9.2tf is false information spread around by hopeful fanboys.
Come on I have a bridge to sell you
If it was really only 2% they leave it at that level fixed and cut a ton off the cooling budget cooling 10% less tdp. It is pure PR to cover a bad design choice of 36 CUs to afford a way over engineered storage system.
 
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It seems that no matter how many times you explain to some, they still don't seem to understand or simply refuse to.
 

KEOPM

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Come on I have a bridge to sell you
If it was really only 2% they leave it at that level fixed and cut a ton off the cooling budget cooling 10% less tdp. It is pure PR to cover a bad design choice of 36 CUs to afford a way over engineered storage system.
Mark said in the video "Rather running it at constant frequency, and let power varies base on the workload. We run at a constant power and let the frequency varies base on the workload."

This tells me Sony want the fan to run at a constant speed, in turn making the system silent.
 

MaulerX

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Nope. Before Reiner tweet, the vast majority had accepted that PS5 will be weaker because rumored MSs 2 SKU strategy and how MS need that power crown. It was widely accepted. It was even a blasphemy to think that PS5 will be more powerful. After Reiner's tweet everything changed ( Colin's also ). And after that tweet and Klee's info, bunch of PS owners are hoping that PS5 will be 12+ TF just to have powerful console as XSX . Klee also said that XSX is slightly above 12 TF. He was right about that. Xbox fans get their 12 TF for XSX. Well, in the end PS5 is 10.3 TF :D I was even in HBM hype train because previous rumors.


You know, one thing that I would like to know (and most of us for that matter) is where did Reiner, Colin and Klee (dev friend?)get their info from. In Reiners defense, he did say that "it was a rumor and things could change". He also said after that he got "new info" but refused to elaborate. Colin just stayed quiet after that. Klee on the other hand, kept doubling and tripleling down. Saying that the PS5 was more powerful even after the 12TF for XSX. Klee did seem pretty genuine in his belief that what he was being told (by his dev friend) was absolutely true. So that makes me think MS just held back info from certain devs and unfortunately some of those devs leaked false information.
 
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You know, one thing that I would like to know (and most of us for that matter) is where did Reiner, Colin and Klee (dev friend?)get their info from. In Reiners defense, he did say that "it was a rumor and things could change". He also said after that he got "new info" but refused to elaborate. Colin just stayed quiet after that. Klee on the other hand, kept doubling and tripleling down. Saying that the PS5 was more powerful even after the 12TF for XSX. Klee did seem pretty genuine in his belief that what he was being told (by his dev friend) was absolutely true. So that makes me think MS just held back info from certain devs and unfortunately some of those devs leaked false information.
It's impossible to determine how many of these insiders were outright fake doing it for fun or people really trying to dig for dirt but got head fakes from their industry buddies. But no doubt for whatever reason(s), that 12-13tf and "PS5 edges out Xbox" BS which had gone on since probably last summer was to keep the masses happy with both SeX and PS5 at about 12tf each.

Pretty hard for either side to claim victory when 20 "insiders" are claiming it sounds like a +/- 0.5tf range. And this bought Sony time.

But it goes to show even beyond the tf BS, so many other rumours were also outright lies such as:

- PS1 to PS3 BC
- Any ram config that included HBM, GDDR6 for gaming + DDR4 for OS, any guess more than 16gb
- Nobody even got the 825gb capacity of the SSD right. Everyone probably assumed 1 TB and called it a day
- Anyone who claimed a CU count more than Oberon's original 36

Zero people guessed a gpu at 2.23 ghz too.
 
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Mark said the cpu and gpu runs in variable frequency, and the gpu and cpu will runs most of the time at/close to 2.23 and 3.5.
"That doesn't mean all games will be running at 2.3ghz and 3.5ghz" "When that worse case game arrive, it will run at a lower clock speed" "but not too much lower, to reduce power by 10%" "couple % reduction in frequency" "down clocking to be minor".

So only 2% reduction in frequency in worse case game. Your 9.2tf is false information spread around by hopeful fanboys.
I agree that PS5 shouldn't see any drops to anywhere near 9.2 TF, but I think part of the push in people saying that is because essentially, PS5 is the Oberon chip the Github leak and testing data showed the entire time. And we have evidence that at some point the chip was at 2.0 GHz, and continuous revisions were done at that speed.

We now know why: Sony wanted to push the clock to as high a rate as possible and sustain it at that rate. So basically the system is running in a continuous, constant Boost Mode. The worry here (for me) is how expensive the cooling system will be, because combine that with the custom NAND flash memory controller and embedded (but removable) SSD, and the PS5 might actually cost about the same cost as XSX in terms of MSRP.

And I stress that because it seems like MS will price-match the PS5 while trying to avoid MSRP above $499. Comparatively, PS5's BOM is at least $450 (likely more), and the company is debating whether to sell at a profit, at-cost, or to take a loss. The fact they've deactivated 4 CUs for improving yields kind of tells me they aren't aiming for an at-profit MSRP. The Japanese side of the company seems to be pushing for selling at-cost, while Jim Ryan seems like the kind of guy who could lean to selling at a loss (he's particularly sensitive to parts of Europe in terms of console pricing) or at-cost. Given his background he'll probably side with the Japanese side on this and therefore I can honestly see a $499 PS5 and $499 XSX.
 

Goliathy

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Hi fake ass Mark Cerny are you trying to say the system isn't boosted from 9.2TF to 10.28TF???

time stamped

His term the worst case game equals the most intensive game meaning the games that are going to take the most advatage of the system is the exclusives which is the worst case scenarios he is talking about. Yes he is talk around this. When you listen to the explanation about issues they ran into with the PS4 and his examples about God of War and Event Horizon. He does say downclocking will happen PER GAME situation.
yup. This is also what I don’t get. I mean

everyone says TFLOPS DONT MATTER
But at the same time, Sony does this weird boost thing, instead of locking everything, TO GET MORE TFLOPS
If it doesn’t matter: why are they doing this? It has so many downsides for devs, makes optimizing way harder to them, creates a lot of HEAT, makes the machine super loud.
Why do this, when TFLOPS don’t matter?
I don’t get this
 
Oct 26, 2018
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If it doesn’t matter: why are they doing this? It has so many downsides for devs, makes optimizing way harder to them, creates a lot of HEAT, makes the machine super loud.
Sony figured out a way to boost the gpu from 9.2tf to 10.3tf to pass the 10tf psychological barrier, even if it means having this weird cpu/gpu teeter-totter thing going on.
 
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KEOPM

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I agree that PS5 shouldn't see any drops to anywhere near 9.2 TF, but I think part of the push in people saying that is because essentially, PS5 is the Oberon chip the Github leak and testing data showed the entire time. And we have evidence that at some point the chip was at 2.0 GHz, and continuous revisions were done at that speed.

We now know why: Sony wanted to push the clock to as high a rate as possible and sustain it at that rate. So basically the system is running in a continuous, constant Boost Mode. The worry here (for me) is how expensive the cooling system will be, because combine that with the custom NAND flash memory controller and embedded (but removable) SSD, and the PS5 might actually cost about the same cost as XSX in terms of MSRP.

And I stress that because it seems like MS will price-match the PS5 while trying to avoid MSRP above $499. Comparatively, PS5's BOM is at least $450 (likely more), and the company is debating whether to sell at a profit, at-cost, or to take a loss. The fact they've deactivated 4 CUs for improving yields kind of tells me they aren't aiming for an at-profit MSRP. The Japanese side of the company seems to be pushing for selling at-cost, while Jim Ryan seems like the kind of guy who could lean to selling at a loss (he's particularly sensitive to parts of Europe in terms of console pricing) or at-cost. Given his background he'll probably side with the Japanese side on this and therefore I can honestly see a $499 PS5 and $499 XSX.
Mark said "We then tackled the engineering challenge of of a cost effective and high performance of a cooling solution design for that specific power level."

I think Sony didn't want to go down the same road again with MS fighting for heavy weight title. Sony set back and look at Nintendo, they saw within Nintendo that most gamers doesn't really care about being the most powerful. Gamers care more about innovation, something new and different from other gaming systems.

With the PS5 Sony spend less money on being the king of power, Sony spend more money on speed cooling and sounds. Keeping the system fan silent with premium custom heatsink is so gamers can enjoy 3d audio without distraction from loud fan noises. 3d audio will make VR gaming more immersive than before, I can only imagine playing VR with such real life like sounds surrounding me. As for the ultra fast ssd, developers will be happy especially first party. People/gamers will find the no/fast-loading and smoothness on PS5 games to be attractive new different from other gaming system.

Sony may spend a lot of money on cooling and ssd, but they also save money on the cpu and gpu side. As for how much they will price their system is just a guess as of now. I think $400 is what they are aiming for, and for the cost of BOM is probably around $400 in my opinion because they cut back a bit on the cpu and gpu.
 

-kb-

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So you guys actually have the PS5 backwards.

It runs at max clocks until there's too much power draw then the clocks get dropped on the CPU or GPU depending on the mode selected.
 
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wordslaughter

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So you guys actually have the PS5 backwards.

It runs at max clocks until there's too much power draw then the clocks get dropped on the CPU or GPU depending on the mode selected.
So if it's idling it will sit at 2.23GHz, but as soon as you actually use it and push it, it goes above it's power budget and throttles down.

The question is what does it throttle down to? Under max load in a demanding game, what clock can it sustain? How many TFlops is the PS5 actually providing.

And it's not JUST about power draw. You can provide all the power you want to a GPU, but that doesn't mean it will be able to sustain 2.23Ghz ( It would be great if more electricity = higher clocks but it really isn't quite so straightforward ) and it will definitely be pumping out a TON of heat.

That 2.23Ghz figure and the calculation of 10.2 TFlops because of that clock speed is EXTREMELY suspect and reeks of less than honest PR speak.

There is going to be some massive caveat.
 

-kb-

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So if it's idling it will sit at 2.23GHz, but as soon as you actually use it and push it, it goes above it's power budget and throttles down.

The question is what does it throttle down to? Under max load in a demanding game, what clock can it sustain? How many TFlops is the PS5 actually providing.

And it's not JUST about power draw. You can provide all the power you want to a GPU, but that doesn't mean it will be able to sustain 2.23Ghz ( It would be great if more electricity = higher clocks but it really isn't quite so straightforward ) and it will definitely be pumping out a TON of heat.

That 2.23Ghz figure and the calculation of 10.2 TFlops because of that clock speed is EXTREMELY suspect and reeks of less than honest PR speak.

There is going to be some massive caveat.
this is a massive misrepresentation of the situation there’s two posts describes the situation pretty well.

 
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That 2.23Ghz number is just PR speak. Can it pulse up to that number for a brief instant? Sure. But it can't be sustained. And sustained is what matters.
This is extreme FUD and totally misleading. If you continue I'll report you to the mods.

If you actually watched the tech talk (likely not), Cerny said explicitly that the GPU is CAPPED at 2230Mhz not spiking up for brief moments, meaning it would operate beyond that figure without a cap. Importantly, he said:

'to reduce power by 10 percent it only takes a couple of percent reduction in frequency'

So this FUD line of 'nee nor nee nor PS5 is not 10.28tflops cos the frequency will drop by 400mhz! snort' being repeated by posters as they make aeroplane gestures with their arms and pretend to fly into the forums is very damaging. A couple of percent of a 2230Mhz clock is 44.6Mhz. If they want to reduce by more than a 'couple', say, 4%, that = 89.2Mhz. So worst case the clock rate is reduced by ~90mhz from its capped frequency in rare cases only (his words) to take the GPU frequency down to 2140Mhz, or 2.14Ghz if you don't understand the former. They can also save power on the CPU too remember (which don't factor into the meaningless tflops number). A 90mhz reduction in GPU clockspeed worst case for rare occasions is not going to reduce your precious tflops number by much at all.
 
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sonomamashine

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I agree that PS5 shouldn't see any drops to anywhere near 9.2 TF, but I think part of the push in people saying that is because essentially, PS5 is the Oberon chip the Github leak and testing data showed the entire time. And we have evidence that at some point the chip was at 2.0 GHz, and continuous revisions were done at that speed.

We now know why: Sony wanted to push the clock to as high a rate as possible and sustain it at that rate. So basically the system is running in a continuous, constant Boost Mode. The worry here (for me) is how expensive the cooling system will be, because combine that with the custom NAND flash memory controller and embedded (but removable) SSD, and the PS5 might actually cost about the same cost as XSX in terms of MSRP.

And I stress that because it seems like MS will price-match the PS5 while trying to avoid MSRP above $499. Comparatively, PS5's BOM is at least $450 (likely more), and the company is debating whether to sell at a profit, at-cost, or to take a loss. The fact they've deactivated 4 CUs for improving yields kind of tells me they aren't aiming for an at-profit MSRP. The Japanese side of the company seems to be pushing for selling at-cost, while Jim Ryan seems like the kind of guy who could lean to selling at a loss (he's particularly sensitive to parts of Europe in terms of console pricing) or at-cost. Given his background he'll probably side with the Japanese side on this and therefore I can honestly see a $499 PS5 and $499 XSX.
Sony may spend a lot of money on cooling and ssd, but they also save money on the cpu and gpu side. As for how much they will price their system is just a guess as of now. I think $400 is what they are aiming for, and for the cost of BOM is probably around $400 in my opinion because they cut back a bit on the cpu and gpu.
I think it's less than 400$ BOM, even if that was the case i don't see PS5 sell more than 449$, my personal concerns are pricing (more than 449$) & thermal paste.
 
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