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[LegendofDragoonLives]

Yoshida is afraid of everything that doesn't fit his PS4 mainstream AAA bill.

That must be why Sony's 1st party has more experimental games then MS and Nintendo.

 

[Not]

It's plainly obvious. I don't know why it's still a thing. With all the talk over Aloy you'd think people would, you know, look at her.

I could stare at that hi-res all day. Her design is onnn point.

 

[Deified Data]

I could stare at that hi-res all day. Her design is onnn point.

Ayup. These early screens are destined for wallpaper.

 

[John Harker]

I said earlier in the thread, its not the fact that focus testing was done, its the fact that somebody thought a relevant question to present in that focus testing was "Are you sure you don't have a problem with the fact that the main character is a woman?".

Focus testing is just like surveys. You mostly get results based on what you ask, and if you ask loaded questions you get skewed results.
"What do you think of the main character?" - standard question, insight into what public perception will be.
"Do you have a problem that the main character is female?" - this should not even be a fucking thing that needs to be asked. If people were spontaneously bringing up "I don't want to play as a woman" that's one thing, but it seems as though the focus testing process was pre-emptively assuming narrow minded bigotry.

but i don't see why you'd think it ISN'T a relevant question.
It's a huge risk to spend that kind of money and have a female lead character. I'm not saying that it's a bad idea, I'm just saying it's an added risk. The data supports it. Far more sell better with generic male leads than female ones... it's just math at that point.

Personally, I'm more interested in the idea of playing a huge game with a female character... but that's a minority opinion on the large scale. It's a smarter move to market-test it to support your decision than be blind to what the market wants.

 

[sn00zer]

Yoshida is afraid of everything that doesn't fit his PS4 mainstream AAA bill.

lol

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

It's far more likely the questions are more like:

"Did you find the main character appealing?"
"Did you identify with the main character?"
"Did you enjoy playing as the main character?"

Not the nonsense, biased questions you're presupposing in order to get angry.

It's literally in the OP;
GG wanted female lead.
Sony execs went "oo-er... not so sure".
Focus group asked specifically about a female lead said "What? Why are you even asking that?"
Execs went "Oh, I guess it's okay then. Phew! Better let journos know of our brave decision!"

That at any stage anyone felt they needed to ask peoples permission that it was acceptable to have a female lead is pathetic. Sorry, it is.

EDIT:

but i don't see why you'd think it ISN'T a relevant question.

If its not a subject brought up in focus testing, its not a subject that will materially effect the games success.
Things that will negatively affect a games success are always brought up by focus testers independently.

 

[Two Words]

I'm pleasantly surprised that not only did they make a female protagonist, but one that isn't typically attractive/model-like.

 

[Berserker976]

It's literally in the OP;
GG wanted female lead.
Sony execs went "oo-er... not so sure".
Focus group asked specifically about a female lead said "What? Why are you even asking that?"
Execs went "Oh, I guess it's okay then. Phew! Better let journos know of our brave decision!"

That at any stage anyone felt they needed to ask peoples permission that it was acceptable to have a female lead is pathetic. Sorry, it is.

I'm not sure whether you're being disingenuous for the sake of cynicism or you've just misread the OP, but either way, no, the bolded wasn't "literally in the OP." Maybe you should give it another look over, and while your at it read the full article.

 

[Agremont]

People, can we put the dreads talk to bed already?

She doesn't have dreadlocks, they are braids.

Observe:

HQ Source: http://images.gamersyde.com/image_horizon_zero_dawn-28643-3283_0005.jpg

Posts about her being ugly are just hillarious. She's a typical pretty woman. Only difference is she's less dolled up.

Some people really seem to base their idea of beauty on make up. Which is utterly bizarre to me. But whatever.

 

[Startropic1]

I'm hyped for this. Finally a female protagonist that isn't all sexually dolled up and can kick ass. Dinobots! Plus I love red heads and bows lol. GG made this game for me.

Um, we've had one of those for almost 30 years:

 

[Startropic1]

That must be why Sony's 1st party has more experimental games then MS and Nintendo.

seriously?

Nintendo has more experimental first party games than Sony & MS have 1st party games at all.

And please don't exclude Nintendo's "experiments" just because some of them are from 30 years ago.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Um, we've had one of those for almost 30 years:

Where's she been, though?

 

[dextran]

I don't understand why having a female protagonist is something to be nervous about.

Because female protagonist games have historically failed to sell well. Beyond Good & Evil, Heavenly Sword, and recently Remember Me. All bombs.

(I'm not saying it was due to female characters, but execs only see $$$ when making decisions.)

 

[NoKisum]

In today's industry, where games like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto are selling by the truckload, I can completely understand why Sony would be super cautious about showing the game at E3, because (at least based on what we've seen so far) it's practically the opposite of what we see in top selling AAA games in many aspects.

And this is coming from someone who's extremely hyped for Horizon.

 

[spons]

Because female protagonist games have historically failed to sell well. Beyond Good & Evil, Heavenly Sword, and recently Remember Me. All bombs.

(I'm not saying it was due to female characters, but execs only see $$$ when making decisions.)

I don't doubt Horizon is going to bomb, game has zero hype outside this forum. On a popular Dutch tech site currently 1,6% of people are looking forward to this game. I just checked the comments and nobody is talking about it. Thought it would be relevant considering it's a Dutch game. Quick check on Reddit and there's almost no threads about it. A meager 5,9% on Gamefaqs. People really don't care about it.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

You should play less AAA games. Plenty of redheaded women in games out there.

please name them

 

[igordennis]

I don't doubt Horizon is going to bomb, game has zero hype outside this forum. On a popular Dutch tech site currently 1,6% of people are looking forward to this game. I just checked the comments and nobody is talking about it. Thought it would be relevant considering it's a Dutch game. Quick check on Reddit and there's almost no threads about it. People really don't care about it.

Lmao Horizon is going to bomb because of those amazing indicators? If its going to be bomb or not it wont be because of those things.

Also, the game was just announced, not even if you were using accurate and meaningful tools to indicate interest could you make an informed prediction. Its a late 2016 game, so many things can happen until then, and you dont even know what the marketing of this game is going to be. Stop making foolish posts.

 

[Vena]

Where's she been, though?

In Smash?

 

[spons]

Lmao Horizon is going to bomb because of those amazing indicators? If its going to be bomb or not it wont be because of those things.

People are up front about not giving a shit about this game, what better indication do you need?

Also, the game was just announced, not even if you were using accurate and meaningful tools to indicate interest could you make an informed prediction. Its a late 2016 game, so many things can happen until then, and you dont even know what the marketing of this game is going to be. Stop making foolish posts.

This is hardly foolish. I'm checking polls from three different cultures and communities and nobody gives a shit. And yes, I'm making the assumption that it will not sell well based on this. What are you going to do about it?

 

[Skux]

Funny how no one ever called out Drake or Lara for their constant quips.

 

[John Harker]

If its not a subject brought up in focus testing, its not a subject that will materially effect the games success.
Things that will negatively affect a games success are always brought up by focus testers independently.

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make here.
I've written questions like, 'do you want to learn more about guns or characters in this upcoming game?' - does that mean by mere fact that we ASKED the question to a sample of our target (to aid in what should be communicated to consumers about the game more, it's weapons or it's characters) guns themselves will now adversely affect the game's performance?

 

[igordennis]

People are up front about not giving a shit about this game, what better indication do you need?


This is hardly foolish. I'm checking polls from three different cultures and communities and nobody gives a shit. And yes, I'm making the assumption that it will not sell well based on this. What are you going to do about it?

I tried to educate you that any meaninful prediction (and yours does not fit this description) at this point is pratically useless. You nevertheless mantain your 100% sure prediction that it is going to bomb based on forums. Yes because forums have shown to great extent that they are representative of the larger market. Oh wait

 

[The Wraith]

As a straight male I would rather look at a female than a male main character. I don't get why people would be turned off to seeing the main character of a game be a female. Tomb Raider sold quite well and the main protagonist is a female. I'm sure there are other examples that I'm forgetting but I don't understand the trepidation on Sonys part. The gaming scene needs a little more diversity.

 

[Zornack]

This is hardly foolish. I'm checking polls from three different cultures and communities and nobody gives a shit. And yes, I'm making the assumption that it will not sell well based on this. What are you going to do about it?

The gamefaqs poll has Shenmue 3, the definition of a niche title, at twice the numbers of Gears 4. Do you think this will in any real way translate to actual sales numbers? Also, these polls are useless because there were such huge announcements like FF7 and Fallout 4's November release at the conference. If you can only pick one thing you're going to pick something like those.

 

[spons]

I tried to educate you that any meaninful prediction (and yours does not fit this description) at this point is pratically useless. You nevertheless mantain your 100% sure prediction that it is going to bomb based on forums. Yes because forums have shown to great extent that they are representative of the larger market. Oh wait

Then what is? Serious question by the way, I really do like to know more.

I've checked a general tech site, a game site, and an aggregator. Is the internet not representative of the gaming audience?

 

[Revas]

This is a game I'd buy a PS4 to play. The results of their testing has paid off IMO, her design is great.

 

[igordennis]

Then what is? Serious question by the way, I really do like to know more.

I've checked a general tech site, a game site, and an aggregator. Is the internet not representative of the gaming audience?

No

The gamefaqs poll has Shenmue 3, the definition of a niche title, at twice the numbers of Gears 4

.

To predict a title's sales there are some social media tracking tools that publishers use but even thats kind of sketchy. As far as i know pre orders and the amount of marketing a game has (and how effective it is) are the best ways to predict. That and some gut feeling

 

[GnawtyDog]

Then what is? Serious question by the way, I really do like to know more.

I've checked a general tech site, a game site, and an aggregator. Is the internet not representative of the gaming audience?

The game was just announced and you're predicting a bomb? Lmao...well i guess you could but you're almost into fact territory with your assertion.

 

[Alo0oy]

Yoshida is afraid of everything that doesn't fit his PS4 mainstream AAA bill.

Well, he greenlighted a game that is most likely the most expensive AAA game with a fixed female protagonist.

 

[Alo0oy]

Then what is? Serious question by the way, I really do like to know more.

I've checked a general tech site, a game site, and an aggregator. Is the internet not representative of the gaming audience?

Your average gamer doesn't visit any of the websites you listed, otherwise, Bayonetta wouldn't be a complete flop & Call of Duty wouldn't be the highest grossing entertainment product every single year that doesn't have GTA.

 

[spons]

The game was just announced and you're predicting a bomb? Lmao...well i guess you could but you're almost into fact territory with your assertion.

Well it's obvious now I've jumped to conclusions, it's just that I don't see the hype I see here on other sites. The internet is a big place, I know, but I just thought that some of these places must be relevant in some way.

 

[igordennis]

Well it's obvious now I've jumped to conclusions, it's just that I don't see the hype I see here on other sites. The internet is a big place, I know, but I just thought that some of these places must be relevant in some way.

Ok it was an honest mistake. You can look at that evidence and say "hmm Horizon doesnt seem to have generated much interest in these hardcore oriented places, maybe that will happen with the general populace maybe it wont, depends on how GG handles the media released and Sony the marketing budget used". Thats reasonable, but looking at that and going "I have no doubt (this is the damning part) that Horizon is going to bomb" is not reasonable, its a guess stated with certainty and without significant evidence.

 

[Alo0oy]

Well it's obvious now I've jumped to conclusions, it's just that I don't see the hype I see here on other sites. The internet is a big place, I know, but I just thought that some of these places must be relevant in some way.

Where is the hype for Black Ops 3? It doesn't even have an active thread on GAF. Compare the hype of Black Ops to FO4, & I'm willing to bet that not only will Black Ops sell better than Fallout, but it will utterly destroy it.

 

[PaulBizkit]

Having a red headed woman with a bow and arrow is a thousand times better than some random bald space marine-like character

 

[rpg_fan]

Shame that it took focus testing to allow the devs to produce what they thought was best, but in the end it worked out.

My issues are purely practical. How can you be stealthy with all those beads?

 

[Tu~KindZ']

I'm not convinced about this game. The female lead is probably not going to be an issue if the game is marketed properly. Last I remember even the last Tomb Raider had a hard time selling that well...despite it being a Tomb Raider.

Good, but please made her talk less while hunting dino robot

I got sick of hearing her talk after about 2 minutes. Maybe it's one of those things that you actually grow to appreciate when you're fully engrossed in gameplay...guess we'll see.

 

[nampad]

If that was true he wouldn't have greenlighted projects like dream or beyond.

Also it is easy to make remarks when your job is not on the line.

Well, after Phil Harrison made Media Molecule and Quantic Dreams successful Sony partnerships that wasn't such a difficult decision.

And looking at Yoshida's track record these last years his job should be on the line

Well, he greenlighted a game that is most likely the most expensive AAA game with a fixed female protagonist.

I haven't followed the news much but do we know that it is "the most expensive" game with a female lead or are you just making that up? Honest question.

 

[igordennis]

Where is the hype for Black Ops 3? It doesn't even have an active thread on GAF. Compare the hype of Black Ops to FO4, & I'm willing to bet that not only will Black Ops sell better than Fallout, but it will utterly destroy it.

Ehhh i dont know about that. Fallout seems to be expected to do as well as Skyrim and Skyrim sold 20+ million. Black Ops should sell better but it i would say "utterly destroy it" is an exaggeration if Fallout performs up to par.

 

[Dazza]

Is it just me or does the female protagonist look like female version of Herman Hulst?

 

[Alo0oy]

I haven't followed the news much but do we know that it is "the most expensive" game with a female lead or are you just making that up? Honest question.

It's just an educated guess, in terms of scale it's easily the biggest game with a fixed female protagonist ever.

 

[Alo0oy]

Ehhh i dont know about that. Fallout seems to be expected to do as well as Skyrim and Skyrim sold 20+ million. Black Ops should sell better but it i would say "utterly destroy it" is an exaggeration if Fallout performs up to par.

You can't expect Fallout to sell as well as the Elder Scrolls, they're two different franchises, the last Fallout game didn't even sell as well as Sony/MS/Nintendo's big exclusives, & it was a multiplatform game.

Besides, even in the best case scenario & it sells as well as Skyrim, Skyrim did that years after release, Call of Duty manages to do that in a single quarter.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

I don't mind female characters. As long as they don't feed feminazi bull crap I'll play the hell out of a female lead game.

Feminazi bullcrap?

Worst comment of the thread.

 

[FuturusX]

Reading through the thread, it seems that the general consensus is that it doesn't matter that the lead character is female.

You are right. It doesn't matter, because Horizon looks better than good, it looks incredible.

Now if it has been a middling, lacking in ambition and thoroughly derivative offering, like say Gears of War 4, going with a dude would have been the way to go.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The data supports it. Far more sell better with generic male leads than female ones... it's just math at that point.

I think the good thing about this crop of games and female leads is that among them many are big budget AAA games that will get strong promotional pushes that will help them to succeed. In that way, they start creating more data points to draw from and encourage future female character led games.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

People are up front about not giving a shit about this game, what better indication do you need?


This is hardly foolish. I'm checking polls from three different cultures and communities and nobody gives a shit. And yes, I'm making the assumption that it will not sell well based on this. What are you going to do about it?

That is why it has almost 2 million views on YouTube last time I looked and also won or received lots of nominations for Best Of Show. You just look butthurt about something.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think the good thing about this crop of games and female leads is that among them many are big budget AAA games that will get strong promotional pushes that will help them to succeed. In that way, they start creating more data points to draw from and encourage future female character led games.

Agreed. This year seems to feel like gaming is starting to evolve again. Last gen just lasted too long.

 

[Elfstruck]

seriously?

Nintendo has more experimental first party games than Sony & MS have 1st party games at all.

And please don't exclude Nintendo's "experiments" just because some of them are from 30 years ago.

Hahahhaha, I can't...

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make here.
I've written questions like, 'do you want to learn more about guns or characters in this upcoming game?' - does that mean by mere fact that we ASKED the question to a sample of our target (to aid in what should be communicated to consumers about the game more, it's weapons or it's characters) guns themselves will now adversely affect the game's performance?

Because this isn't a story about how focus groups are lowest common denominator stupid and how its not a corporations job to fix society, or risk profits for societal change.

It's not even a story of Sony taking a stance for decency against a vocal minority, like EA did when they basically told bigots to go fuck themselves.

It's a development team wanting to do something that shouldn't even raise an eyebrow and it's focus groups showing that society at large don't even consider this an issue.
It's some executives internally basically corporate concern-trolling about a complete non-issue.

 

[Servbot24]

I said earlier in the thread, its not the fact that focus testing was done, its the fact that somebody thought a relevant question to present in that focus testing was "Are you sure you don't have a problem with the fact that the main character is a woman?".

Focus testing is just like surveys. You mostly get results based on what you ask, and if you ask loaded questions you get skewed results.
"What do you think of the main character?" - standard question, insight into what public perception will be.
"Do you have a problem that the main character is female?" - this should not even be a fucking thing that needs to be asked. If people were spontaneously bringing up "I don't want to play as a woman" that's one thing, but it seems as though the focus testing process was pre-emptively assuming narrow minded bigotry.

Why are you making the assumption that the focus tests asks loaded questions? You're making that up to get yourself angry.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Yoshida sounds like is pretty bad at his job to be honest.