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Sony's focus on multiplayer is dissapointing

Oct 26, 2018
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Last time they focused on big MP was PS3 and they gave up during the PS4 era. They tried it with Driveclub and KIllzone at launch. Then it died right after.

I dont think many of their games are MP focused at all now. It's more like SP focus, MP tacked on as opposed to a typical FPS which is the reverse.

What Sony does to compensate is do third party deals with COD, FIFA, Destiny and whomever for the MP push.
 
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BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
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Sony hasn’t had a big multiplayer game in a very long time. I’m not surprised they want one.
 

DeepEnigma

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Not sure what you mean with selectively.
People use it as a monolith depending on their confirmation bias or arguments.

My use wasn't as a monolith, devoid of details, sure, but monolith it was not. Rather, a collective of different opinions and constant doom & gloom.

GIF by FirstAndMonday
 
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GymWolf

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So you don't see all the people complaining about ONLY wanting single player games and how they won't touch multiplayer games? Because that is definitely a real thing. I see it pretty much non stop on twitter and very often on this forum. I have a friend in real life who only leaves his home when he has to or "fears external contact" as you put it that HATES any sort of multiplayer games and he literally recently said to me that Sony have lost their way and are going down the shitter because they might start making multiplayer/co-op type games. I don't understand how so many people DEMAND that a company cater to their personal tastes.



Sorry i thought you were saying that about me lmao, i agree with you.
The fact that you know a guy who is lonely and happen to like single player games is not a proof of anything.

I know you were trying to joke there but it was a bit in bad taste imo.

We are in a forum, everyone says his own opinion, nobody is forced to think about the greater goods or the entire vg community, that's why some people prefer if sony maintain his focus on big ass single player games.

And since sony was a mainly single player brand for the last 2-3 gens, you can understand why people is surprised about this multy revolution (if it is a real thing like many others said before me), i really don't see anything strange here, people buy a switch because they want some type of games, same for xbox and sony (although those 2 have more blurred lines in term of genres), it is not strange at all reading opinions based on past gen expectations and we are in a forum so various opinions are welcome.
 
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GymWolf

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People use it as a monolith depending on their confirmation bias or arguments.

My use wasn't as a monolith, devoid of details, sure, but monolith it was not. Rather, a collective of different opinions and constant doom & gloom.

GIF by FirstAndMonday
I mean yeah, you can't make everyone happy, but that is the same for everything, not only vg and gamers.
 
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Idk. From many of the recent sales charts we see that 3rd party games are selling more on PS, sometimes as high as 80% compared to 20% on Xbox

That's more revenue for Sony and it might result in some more favorable deals with 3rd party games on PS
And as someone else mentioned earlier, and you laughed at, you're only looking at part of the picture. Has this topic not been discussed enough over the years? Do I really need to rehash why the sales figures are different?
I'm not debating that Sony sells more copies outright.
I'm not debating on who has sold more consoles.
I'm not doing the typical console war BS, I'm trying to talk about basic facts. I guess that's not acceptable in this thread. All I said is that Game Pass is cutting into Sony's sales in some way, because some people aren't buying their games on PS5, when the game is also available on Game Pass. This isn't even debatable, it's happening. As I said, the level of significance can be debated. You're acting like it isn't happening at all, which is just nonsensical. Obviously, total sales on Xbox are lower, if they're selling less consoles. Obviously, any game on Game Pass is going to have less total Xbox sales than they normally would have. This is so obvious that it shouldn't need to be mentioned, let alone be used as your only argument.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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And as someone else mentioned earlier, and you laughed at, you're only looking at part of the picture. Has this topic not been discussed enough over the years? Do I really need to rehash why the sales figures are different?
I'm not debating that Sony sells more copies outright.
I'm not debating on who has sold more consoles.
I'm not doing the typical console war BS, I'm trying to talk about basic facts. I guess that's not acceptable in this thread. All I said is that Game Pass is cutting into Sony's sales in some way, because some people aren't buying their games on PS5, when the game is also available on Game Pass. This isn't even debatable, it's happening. As I said, the level of significance can be debated. You're acting like it isn't happening at all, which is just nonsensical. Obviously, total sales on Xbox are lower, if they're selling less consoles. Obviously, any game on Game Pass is going to have less total Xbox sales than they normally would have. This is so obvious that it shouldn't need to be mentioned, let alone be used as your only argument.
Exactly.

Years back Adobe sold their stuff the regular way. Boxed companies at stores for probably $600 US. Any graphics design sales chart (if there's such as thing) would had shown millions of copies of Photoshop sold.

Then they went sub plan. Number of copies sold on physical sales trackers would start dropping as boxed copies run out over time. Purists will still scrounge up boxed copies still at stores while some just go the sub plan route.

At some point probably all boxed copies except a handful buried in a warehouse someone forgot about are done. Sales for boxed copies would eventually be zero.

But Adobe is at record sales and profits going the sub plan strategy despite zero boxed copies sold.
 
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Azurro

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The universe in which one of the richest companies in the world, hires a team of experts to look at a 10+ year trajectory of GamePass, has a good estimation of how much money will be lost...and says "Yeah, let's sign up for that."

GamePass is a hyper aggressive tool used to increase mindshare and marketshare with gamers.

In boxing, they're the fighter who's down on points, but comes out the next round throwing punches in bunches. Sony has to weather the storm best they can and hope their opponent gets tired out quickly without making up ground on the scorecards.

Multiplayer GAAS is this for Sony...

Are these the same MS experts that took a look at the Surface Book and thought that'd be a success? Is that the same group of experts that decided Windows RT was a good idea? The same group of experts that thought the Kinect in the Xbox one was an amazing thing to do? The same ones that decided getting rid of the start button in Windows 8 would be swell? Nokia and Windows Phone? MS has TONS of failures that they decided to dump their money on, GamePass is yet another failure in progress.

Also, can we get rid of your subtle console warrior trolling? It's annoying to see you guys shilling for GamePass where it doesn't belong.

Anyway, getting back to the point. If it is true that Sony is planning to cover more multiplayer games is because of internet exposure, profitability of GAAS and to strengthen PS Plus.
 

OmegaSupreme

basic bitch
Apr 17, 2019
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And as someone else mentioned earlier, and you laughed at, you're only looking at part of the picture. Has this topic not been discussed enough over the years? Do I really need to rehash why the sales figures are different?
I'm not debating that Sony sells more copies outright.
I'm not debating on who has sold more consoles.
I'm not doing the typical console war BS, I'm trying to talk about basic facts. I guess that's not acceptable in this thread. All I said is that Game Pass is cutting into Sony's sales in some way, because some people aren't buying their games on PS5, when the game is also available on Game Pass. This isn't even debatable, it's happening. As I said, the level of significance can be debated. You're acting like it isn't happening at all, which is just nonsensical. Obviously, total sales on Xbox are lower, if they're selling less consoles. Obviously, any game on Game Pass is going to have less total Xbox sales than they normally would have. This is so obvious that it shouldn't need to be mentioned, let alone be used as your only argument.
And your only apparent argument is that some people are waiting for games to be on gamepass. If you consider this some sort of victory, congrats. The rest of us have verifiable real numbers to draw from.
 

Topher

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And as someone else mentioned earlier, and you laughed at, you're only looking at part of the picture. Has this topic not been discussed enough over the years? Do I really need to rehash why the sales figures are different?
I'm not debating that Sony sells more copies outright.
I'm not debating on who has sold more consoles.
I'm not doing the typical console war BS, I'm trying to talk about basic facts. I guess that's not acceptable in this thread. All I said is that Game Pass is cutting into Sony's sales in some way, because some people aren't buying their games on PS5, when the game is also available on Game Pass. This isn't even debatable, it's happening. As I said, the level of significance can be debated. You're acting like it isn't happening at all, which is just nonsensical. Obviously, total sales on Xbox are lower, if they're selling less consoles. Obviously, any game on Game Pass is going to have less total Xbox sales than they normally would have. This is so obvious that it shouldn't need to be mentioned, let alone be used as your only argument.

If Game Pass affecting PS5 games purchases is as factual as you say then where is the data? Hard to take this "cannot be debated" line without having something to stand on.
 

Mabdia

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Until now the only reason I see to get a PS5 is to play my PS4's games in a better frame rate. That being said, the way Sony is doing things looks more like Microsoft than PlayStation nowadays. So it is normal the way that they approaching games now, focusing in multiplayer games. It's almost as the same approach that MS does.

Sadly that turns me off the ecosystem.

And now that almost every Japanese game gets released on PC or Switch without getting censored, I just can't care that much about Playstation or how it will handle their games. If they want to be the next Xbox, so be it.
 
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Sep 19, 2021
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If Game Pass affecting PS5 games purchases is as factual as you say then where is the data? Hard to take this "cannot be debated" line without having something to stand on.
Said it twice already. You cannot quantify lost sales.
And I have to laugh at you continuing to act like there's no sales being lost.
Anyway, you're clearly just trying to turn this into a console war, which I have zero interest in doing. You can't seem to accept the most basic fact in the the entire situation, so getting into any nuance would be a colossal waste of time.
 
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Excuse Me Reaction GIF by One Chicago


So the effect Game Pass has had on PS5 cannot be debated........just because you say so?
Jfc said multiple times "the significance can be debated". What a clown show.

Game Pass having SOME EFFECT can't be debated.

Do I need pictures too?
 
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Men_in_Boxes

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Are these the same MS experts that took a look at the Surface Book and thought that'd be a success? Is that the same group of experts that decided Windows RT was a good idea? The same group of experts that thought the Kinect in the Xbox one was an amazing thing to do? The same ones that decided getting rid of the start button in Windows 8 would be swell? Nokia and Windows Phone?

No. Different people, teams, and experts entirely.
 

yurinka

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If Game Pass affecting PS5 games purchases is as factual as you say then where is the data? Hard to take this "cannot be debated" line without having something to stand on.
PS5 is the fastest selling ever console. Maybe their main competitor moving their focus more to PC and releasing all their exclusives on Gamepass day one in console and PC, instead of mostly focusing on releasing their exclusives only on console did help PS5 sales positevely a bit, but maybe it isn't the case and it wass only the natural path following the PS sales growth. We can't now the exact reasons.

So it is normal the way that they approaching games now, focusing in multiplayer games.
Looking at their 1st party published games during the last year or so and the announced ones for the future, as always they have some game with multiplayer like Gran Turismo but they continue focused on single player.
 
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Azurro

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No. Different people, teams, and experts entirely.

Oh, so what makes these suits special? Other than MS's overall plan to make everything a subscription, there's no reason to believe the financial blackhole that is GamePass will ever be sustainable, let alone a good driver of profits.

And why are we discussing GamePass in a Sony thread about multiplayer games? I thought we were getting rid of ridiculous console warring.
 
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It would be wise to pay attention to Factions II success. If that game hits for Sony+Naughty Dog it has the potential to change the trajectory of the company.

DayZ, Rust, and Ark are still massive games in 2021. All three look and play like ****.

If Naughty Dog takes that formula and gives it proper attention, they could have the next big thing on their hands. A sudden influx of profits makes everyone change focus.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Even if Sony does have a massive hit with the game, they aren't going to suddenly abandon what's garnered them their current level of success in the gaming industry. It only opens them up to being able to monetise a new demographic of gamers that have traditionally looked elsewhere, i.e. MP gamers.

The problem I see, with your and the OP's logic, is that it's predicated on the assumption that a company like Sony can only focus on one thing; making this silly MP vs SP focus argument essentially a false dichotomy.

Sony has always focused on providing great SP AND MP experiences. In that for every Uncharted SP campaign, there was a Warhawk or MAG or KZ2 MP. Sony can and will do both, regardless of the success of either, because having that breadth of content is more important to Sony, in appealing to the widest possible gaming demographic possible, than putting all their eggs in one small basket.

So the idea that an overwhelming success in one area will somehow change their decades-long approach seems pretty absurd to me.
 

Ceadeus

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For the last decade, all we've heard is that Sony has no multiplayer games. So now we're going to complain about them working on multiplayer games? Ehhh.

Also, The Last of Us had really great multiplayer and the GoT multiplayer content is pretty good too. I see no problem here, as long as they still make solid single player games as well.
My complaint wouldn't be that they don't have multiplayer game but mostly that they can't seem to maintain their servers long enough.
 

Men_in_Boxes

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Oh, so what makes these suits special? Other than MS's overall plan to make everything a subscription, there's no reason to believe the financial blackhole that is GamePass will ever be sustainable, let alone a good driver of profits.

There's no reason to believe GamePass will ever be profitable...according to you.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Satya Nadella was given a reason to believe by some respectable people before he gave his employees billions of dollars.

I'm not saying it'll work, but the whole "No reason" is ridiculous.
 
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JaksGhost

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If you bought a PS5 but are waiting for certain games to release on Game Pass that really doesn't have the effect certain people think it does on Sony. You already bought into their ecosystem by buying their console, they got their money right there. Also that would only apply to 3rd party games and indies if you think about it. Game Pass just better hope it doesn't start to suffer the same things Netflix is going through with their subscription service. One bad deal or one fell swoop from a competitive service or another publisher could wipe out a whole roster of games from the service. Just imagine Square Enix for example receiving an offer from a competitor or refusing to reup their contract terms with Microsoft and removing all of their games from the service at the end of the contract. We're in the "who knows" phase of Game Pass right now since that information isn't given out to the public.
 
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PropellerEar

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Last time they focused on big MP was PS3 and they gave up during the PS4 era. They tried it with Driveclub and KIllzone at launch. Then it died right after.
Which was the correct thing to do looking at results.
There was no competing against CoD, BF, GTA5, Fortnite, PUBG, apex, destiny, fifa.

How did it go for Anthem?

Also you forgot GT Sport.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Are these the same MS experts that took a look at the Surface Book and thought that'd be a success? Is that the same group of experts that decided Windows RT was a good idea? The same group of experts that thought the Kinect in the Xbox one was an amazing thing to do? The same ones that decided getting rid of the start button in Windows 8 would be swell? Nokia and Windows Phone? MS has TONS of failures that they decided to dump their money on, GamePass is yet another failure in progress.

Also, can we get rid of your subtle console warrior trolling? It's annoying to see you guys shilling for GamePass where it doesn't belong.

Anyway, getting back to the point. If it is true that Sony is planning to cover more multiplayer games is because of internet exposure, profitability of GAAS and to strengthen PS Plus.
You call him trolling, yet go on a historical product rant on MS products that has nothing to do with GP, follow it up with "can we get rid your subtle trolling", and then state at the end "getting back to the point".

lol
 
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Azurro

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There's no reason to believe GamePass will ever be profitable...according to you.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Satya Nadella was given a reason to believe by some respectable people before he gave his employees billions of dollars.

I'm not saying it'll work, but the whole "No reason" is ridiculous.

Why are we talking about that financial blackhole in this thread? Is it because you subtly brought it into the conversation to console war maybe? Go create a GamePass thread if you want to speak about MS's future 30th failed venture this badly.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Which was the correct thing to do looking at results.
There was no competing against CoD, BF, GTA5, Fortnite, PUBG, apex, destiny, fifa.

How did it go for Anthem?

Also you forgot GT Sport.
Half those games came out after DC and KZ. And they did fine.

If COD and FIFA are online powerhouses not worth competing against, why did Fortnite, PUBG and Apex come out in 2017-2019? And Destiny in 2014? And Destiny 2 in 2017? and RS Siege in 2015?
 
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PropellerEar

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You call him trolling, yet go on a historical product rant on MS products that has nothing to do with GP, follow it up with "can we get rid your subtle trolling", and then state at the end "getting back to the point".

lol
Your guy is trolling that is clear.

Kek
 
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PropellerEar

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Half those games came out after DC and KZ. And they did fine.

If COD and FIFA are online powerhouses not worth competing against, why did Fortnite, PUBG and Apex come out in 2017-2019? And Destiny in 2014? And Destiny 2 in 2017? and RS Siege in 2015?
They did more than fine, that is what I'm saying.

Mostly new game mechanics and MTX for kids.
30% cut for Sony (without risk) why compete with that.
 
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iHaunter

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If they're partnered with SP, I don't see the problem? It's not Sony's focus, it's the direction everything is going.

If we can have both, why not?
 
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OmegaSupreme

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You're acting like I'm cheerleading for MS by stating the most obvious thing possible. Thought we weren't supposed to keep console warring here, but you guys can't seem to stop. Sorry if a simple fact makes you lose your mind
Your fact is insignificant and useless. Not to mention unverifiable by your own admission. Why did you even bring it up? That's the question you should ask yourself.

I didn't even bring up gamepass. Someone else did. I responded to it. I've stated nothing but verifiable facts. You have not. If you consider this "warring" then you haven't been on a message board long.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

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Even if Sony does have a massive hit with the game, they aren't going to suddenly abandon what's garnered them their current level of success in the gaming industry.

In what area of human history have people found a more effective investment and not pursued it? Or rather, who found a more effective investment, ignored it, and passed on their genes?

Naughty Dog reached a certain level of success with Crash Bandicoot. They wanted more.
 

Topher

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Said it twice already. You cannot quantify lost sales.
And I have to laugh at you continuing to act like there's no sales being lost.
Anyway, you're clearly just trying to turn this into a console war, which I have zero interest in doing. You can't seem to accept the most basic fact in the the entire situation, so getting into any nuance would be a colossal waste of time.

Facts have evidence. That's the problem. Your argument is entirely supposition. If you want to make that argument and say this is what you think is happening then that is fine. But claiming your position is factual and cannot be debated while having zero actual evidence is a bit absurd. What's also absurd is saying that I'm trying to "turn this into a console war" because I don't automatically agree with you. If you want to talk about inventing arguments from thin air......start right there.

Jfc said multiple times "the significance can be debated". What a clown show.

Game Pass having SOME EFFECT can't be debated.

That's not what you said. You said...

"All I said is that Game Pass is cutting into Sony's sales in some way, because some people aren't buying their games on PS5, when the game is also available on Game Pass. This isn't even debatable, it's happening."

How many PS5 owners have access to Game Pass? Considering XSX and PS5 are extremely scarce, it seems like most gamers probably only have one or the other. If your point is that the number of PS5 gamers who also have Game Pass are probably opting for Game Pass then ok, that seems like a reasonable OPINION to have. It just isn't backed by facts so why pretend it is? For those subset of games it is a logical assumption and nothing more.

And yes, absolutely the significance of those overlapping PS5/Game Pass gamers can also be debated. I'd say the number of those gamers is quite small and Game Pass isn't the only factor. For example, PS gamers have friends they want to play with on PSN, for example. Game Pass doesn't solve that problem.

So saying Game Pass is cutting into Sony sales is actually quite debatable.


Do I need pictures too?

U Mad Reaction GIF


Seriously.....why are you so wound up? It is a discussion about video games. Lighten up.
 
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Perrott

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It seems the future of PlayStation we have a ton of multiplayer investment. For someone who hates most multiplayer games and didn't get I to Starhawk, Resistance, Killzone and etc this is quite dissapointing.

We have the following based on official announcements, leaks and rumours
Deviation FPS game - Devs of Black Ops
FireWalk FPS game - Devs of Titanfall
Horizon multiplayer game
Guerilla Games 2nd project to be multiplayer - could be the same Horizon multiplayer game or something else
FireSprite Multiplayer game - Based on job positions
Factions - became its own thing and more ambitious so more resources put into this
Arrowhead next game - Sony published their previous game so likely to invest in this
Twisted Metal F2P - rumoured to be in development by Lucid
London Studio multiplayer game - they are hiring for a online game
inSomniac multiplayer game - they are hiring for a online game

That's a ton of investment for online games and I would have oreffered the resources to be double down on AAA singleplayer games. We already had Destruction Allstars which flopped. Sony has had issues previously creating a big online presence in a game where servers are shut or community is dead, just look at Starhawk, Twisted Metal, Resistance 3, Killzone 3 and etc. We are at a time where only a few online games succeed as the competition is strong and people don't have time to focus on a few online games at a time which leaves many online games being abandoned. There are some positives I'm glad Gran Turismo 7 is bringing back a decent singplelayer campaign. Ragnarok, Wolverine and etc all will be great singleplayer games. But with VR and multiplayer games which are 2 things I'm not interested in it seems the big singplelayer AAA games will be few and far between from eachother. And Sony could have upped the investment in more singplelayer games instead of multiplayer games which history has shown usually flop and get abandoned.
Oh- you think they are not doubling down on their singleplayer offering?

You should wait and see before getting all concerned about their lineup.
 
Jan 16, 2020
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In what area of human history have people found a more effective investment and not pursued it? Or rather, who found a more effective investment, ignored it, and passed on their genes?

Naughty Dog reached a certain level of success with Crash Bandicoot. They wanted more.

They are pursuing. They don't need to abandon their core strength to do that.

SP will always be at the forefront. Afterall you can only have so many multiplayer games before you end up competing with yourself. Just ask Ubisoft.
 

Hobbygaming

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In what area of human history have people found a more effective investment and not pursued it? Or rather, who found a more effective investment, ignored it, and passed on their genes?

Naughty Dog reached a certain level of success with Crash Bandicoot. They wanted more.
Your problem is that you see Sony dabbling in some MP as some kind of 360 degree change when they know their bread and butter are SP experiences

Sony won't abandon what got them to the dance
 
Sep 19, 2021
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Your fact is insignificant and useless. Not to mention unverifiable by your own admission. Why did you even bring it up? That's the question you should ask yourself.

I didn't even bring up gamepass. Someone else did. I responded to it. I've stated nothing but verifiable facts. You have not. If you consider this "warring" then you haven't been on a message board long.
I'm not the first one to bring up Game Pass either, it was already being discussed.
And yeah, you're trying to draw me into a stupid console war, instead of just listening to the one point I was trying to make, which was that Game Pass is cutting into Sony's software sales.
That point I'm trying to make isn't "unverifiable" either, as it's the most basic common sense. I don't need a source to tell you that water is wet, do I? Are you suggesting that someone who owns both a Series X and a PS5 is MORE likely to buy a $70 game on PS5 rather than download the game via Game Pass? It really sounds like that is what you're laughing about. I said before, that even if it's a small % of lost sales that Sony thinks they'd earn otherwise, then they'd be concerned about that. This is basic business 101. You're laughing at that too. Why? It's obvious. You think businesses ignore that? This has been discussed ad nauseum for years.
The thing I said was "unverifiable" was lost sales. Sony can't know for sure how many sales they are losing to Game Pass. All they do is projections. I can't "give you proof", because there's none to give. But to deny that there's any affect at all is just wrong, which is basically what you're doing.
 

PropellerEar

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I'm not the first one to bring up Game Pass either, it was already being discussed.
And yeah, you're trying to draw me into a stupid console war, instead of just listening to the one point I was trying to make, which was that Game Pass is cutting into Sony's software sales.
That point I'm trying to make isn't "unverifiable" either, as it's the most basic common sense. I don't need a source to tell you that water is wet, do I? Are you suggesting that someone who owns both a Series X and a PS5 is MORE likely to buy a $70 game on PS5 rather than download the game via Game Pass? It really sounds like that is what you're laughing about. I said before, that even if it's a small % of lost sales that Sony thinks they'd earn otherwise, then they'd be concerned about that. This is basic business 101. You're laughing at that too. Why? It's obvious. You think businesses ignore that? This has been discussed ad nauseum for years.
The thing I said was "unverifiable" was lost sales. Sony can't know for sure how many sales they are losing to Game Pass. All they do is projections. I can't "give you proof", because there's none to give. But to deny that there's any affect at all is just wrong, which is basically what you're doing.
So you are talking about MLB?
 
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Facts have evidence. That's the problem. Your argument is entirely supposition. If you want to make that argument and say this is what you think is happening then that is fine. But claiming your position is factual and cannot be debated while having zero actual evidence is a bit absurd. What's also absurd is saying that I'm trying to "turn this into a console war" because I don't automatically agree with you. If you want to talk about inventing arguments from thin air......start right there.



That's not what you said. You said...

"All I said is that Game Pass is cutting into Sony's sales in some way, because some people aren't buying their games on PS5, when the game is also available on Game Pass. This isn't even debatable, it's happening."

How many PS5 owners have access to Game Pass? Considering XSX and PS5 are extremely scarce, it seems like most gamers probably only have one or the other. If your point is that the number of PS5 gamers who also have Game Pass are probably opting for Game Pass then ok, that seems like a reasonable OPINION to have. It just isn't backed by facts so why pretend it is? For those subset of games it is a logical assumption and nothing more.

And yes, absolutely the significance of those overlapping PS5/Game

Facts have evidence. That's the problem. Your argument is entirely supposition. If you want to make that argument and say this is what you think is happening then that is fine. But claiming your position is factual and cannot be debated while having zero actual evidence is a bit absurd. What's also absurd is saying that I'm trying to "turn this into a console war" because I don't automatically agree with you. If you want to talk about inventing arguments from thin air......start right there.



That's not what you said. You said...

"All I said is that Game Pass is cutting into Sony's sales in some way, because some people aren't buying their games on PS5, when the game is also available on Game Pass. This isn't even debatable, it's happening."

How many PS5 owners have access to Game Pass? Considering XSX and PS5 are extremely scarce, it seems like most gamers probably only have one or the other. If your point is that the number of PS5 gamers who also have Game Pass are probably opting for Game Pass then ok, that seems like a reasonable OPINION to have. It just isn't backed by facts so why pretend it is? For those subset of games it is a logical assumption and nothing more.

And yes, absolutely the significance of those overlapping PS5/Game Pass gamers can also be debated. I'd say the number of those gamers is quite small and Game Pass isn't the only factor. For example, PS gamers have friends they want to play with on PSN, for example. Game Pass doesn't solve that problem.

So saying Game Pass is cutting into Sony sales is actually quite debatable.
So, you just showed me that you fully understood what I was talking about, yet chose to act oblivious anyway.

And no, to say that it's debatable is just denying common sense. Debate if you want, but it makes no sense to do so. I made a simple point that somehow turned into an hour long runaround with people pretending that they don't understand basic reality.
 
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OmegaSupreme

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I'm not the first one to bring up Game Pass either, it was already being discussed.
And yeah, you're trying to draw me into a stupid console war, instead of just listening to the one point I was trying to make, which was that Game Pass is cutting into Sony's software sales.
That point I'm trying to make isn't "unverifiable" either, as it's the most basic common sense. I don't need a source to tell you that water is wet, do I? Are you suggesting that someone who owns both a Series X and a PS5 is MORE likely to buy a $70 game on PS5 rather than download the game via Game Pass? It really sounds like that is what you're laughing about. I said before, that even if it's a small % of lost sales that Sony thinks they'd earn otherwise, then they'd be concerned about that. This is basic business 101. You're laughing at that too. Why? It's obvious. You think businesses ignore that? This has been discussed ad nauseum for years.
The thing I said was "unverifiable" was lost sales. Sony can't know for sure how many sales they are losing to Game Pass. All they do is projections. I can't "give you proof", because there's none to give. But to deny that there's any affect at all is just wrong, which is basically what you're doing.
I didn't say that. Read my quote again. I said your fact. Which is true. There's no denying that. The amount is unverifiable. That's what I was talking about which should have been clear. You simply choose to ignore it. You're in defense mode. I get it.