-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Spider-Man 2 has surpassed 10 million units sold, bringing the game series sales to an astounding 50 million units
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- Sales-Age
daninthemix
Member
Meh.
semiconscious
Member
&, of course, it also means the large majority haven't... indicating i'm not sure what...
Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
Why you necro reply to a 2 week post? lmao
Last edited:
Kacho
Member
Mibu no ookami
Member
God of War is an original IP. Spider-Man is a licensed IP. The game also almost certainly was more expensive to develop.
So yes, Sony had greater expectations for it than God of War Ragnarok.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
Bought and platinumed the first one. Zero interest in this one.
If Sony had greater expectations they would've made it cross-gen but no they stuck it on a single platform that hadn't reached 50 million in sales by the time it was released. But nope tell me more Sony exec about what was said in these meetings.
Last edited:
semiconscious
Member
why you only ask me this?...
Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
You know what, whatever, I don't really care one way or another. It just seemed a little weird to see someone all of the sudden replying to a post of mine in a 2 week old thread.
Last edited:
semiconscious
Member
'someone'? i'm one of several other people. & not the first. the thread popped up at the top of the page. i, personally, hadn't seen it before. i replied. end of story...
DaGwaphics
Member
Impressive. Looks like they didn't really need to worry about the sustainability of this one after all. Hopefully the success will help Insomniac avoid the need to release half games.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
Dude, you're the one who has replied to a post of mine, hence why I'm replying to you directly.
semiconscious
Member
as mentioned above: i'd missed the thread when it originally appeared. i've had numerous people respond to my older posts, & i've always assumed it was for the same reason - they'd missed it first time around... not to mention, i'm in no way disagreeing with your post. peace...
Mibu no ookami
Member
Part of sony's hope in selling 25 million units for the fiscal year was Spider-Man 2 driving console sales. That they are short by at least 4 million copies has a lot to do with Spider-Man bundles not selling as well as they'd hoped.
Some of us can do decent analysis without being an exec in the meetings.
Sorry if that hurts you.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
Aight then. Peace, but do expect people to be ??? when someone replies to old stuff they've posted all of the sudden.
DaGwaphics
Member
Had they ever sold 25m units in a single year before? Perhaps the goal simply wasn't something achievable.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Dude, you are smarter than this. How would they sell 25 million units WHILE also INCREASING THE PRICE OF THE CONSOLE?!?!
I think the most Playstations ever sold in a fiscal year was 22 million. And I think that was the PS2. Which sold 157 million total consoles! 25m was a pipedream without a $100 permanent cost drop on both PS5s.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Again, that's how well they thought Spider-Man 2 would push the PS5 and again that is why Insomniac also got layoffs.
I both predicted that the price of the PS5 would go up AND that they wouldn't hit 25 million units.
VanCityGamer
Member
Why would that be?
Not sure they count bundle sales at full price, though. But you’re right that it’s still very impressive performance and it’s weird for it to be compared to Ragnarok which is also a massive title.
Price increase was made ages ago, and the 25 million forecast was made well after the price was increased in Europe etc.
kazuyamishima
Member
Sorry to barge in, but with the release of the slim, both models increased in price in Japan.
The digital went from $399 to $449 in the US and the disc model most the vertical stand that it was coming with.
crackajack
Member
Never underestimate the abilities of CFOs and their minions.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But it's not reasonable to assume that any layoffs happened within Insomniac "because of" the sales of Spiderman 2. There's no way you can make that assessment. They are making Wolverine and Venom while we type. If Sony thinks the answer to selling 10+ million copies of Spiderman 2 and generating over $600 million in 3 months is LESS employees, then they would be the dumbest Publisher on the face of the Earth.
I'm going to "assume" it has something to do with them killing some internal GAAS title or mode in a future game. But I'm not even sure about that.
Which is why its even dumber to assume that it was going to hit 25 million. Without a permanent price drop, Sony had no basis that the PS5 was going to do 15% better than their best-selling Playstation console selling year in history. And if memory serves, I think the PS2 got that record when it hit a price drop.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Sony has been locked in on Spider-Man and Wolverine/X-Men well before the results of Spider-Man 2 came out.
They fully expected Spider-Man 2 to sell more copies and thus more PS5 units. Again, everyone wants to ignore that Sony expected 25 million units sold and there are STILL Spider-Man 2 PS5 bundles available today. This was absolutely not within Sony's expectations and whether or not that is justified or not is immaterial.
I've spoken about the hiring freeze at most of these studios for some time. Hiring freezes almost always are a precursor to salary/wage freezes and layoffs.
I called out very early that there were issues with Spider-Man 2 sales and with PS5 sales and that they were having an impact on Insomnaic.
You think 10 million is a great number, but when you look at the royalties involved in using Spider-Man, you better understand why Sony needs better results than God of War.
The risk involved in making more Spider-Man games and Wolverine and X-Men is significant at the costs they were running. So no one is even saying that Spider-Man 2 was a failure, rather it's a cautionary tale.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But why not also understand the timeframe and console number base "ALONG" with the 10 million units sales number? It sold the 10 million in 3 months and did it on a console base that was at 50 or so million sold?
There's no way Sony is that stupid to think Spiderman 2 would sell that same 10 million in 4 weeks or so. Maybe you're right and Sony is this stupid. And if you are right and they are this stupid then they are in terrible. And any Playstation gamer at this point is also in trouble with their hobby of choice and should consider being a PC gamer instead.
7 million was the breakeven point for Spiderman 2. They did that in 6-7 weeks. Everything after that is pure profit (not counting the % Marvel gets). If that's not good enough then the video game industry will die fast and the PS6 will never be made because gaming will explode before 2028.
Mibu no ookami
Member
You keep ignoring that they wanted it to drive console sales in Q3 and Q4.
The inventory we see now is the inventory Sony had anticipated Spider-Man would help push and it hasn't. I'm sure they didn't even want to sell the game bundled for 500 but were forced to due to slow sales. That is margin destructive.
LOL, this has nothing to do with console gaming or pc gaming.
You've got to learn the difference between profit and profitability.
It's way too early to be drinking.
Last edited:
They had record high shipments in the quarter preceding when they made that forecast, and they expected widespread availability would mop up lots of sales for people who weren't able to get one during the shortages
Not sure it was widely seen as a 'dumb' forecast. Here's the GAF thread on the forecast. Not many doubters there
PS5 is fully stocked for first time and on track for record sales this year, top Sony exec says
Sony's PlayStation 5 is at full capacity at retailers and other distribution channels around the world, according to Eric Lempel, the company's head of business operations. That comes after a series of successive console shortages which saw many players around the world unable to get their hands...
To be fair, T Three called it back then
Spiderman 2 was released October 20th. There were Slim PS5 bundles with Spiderman 2 for $499 in Walmart by November 9th, complete with full branding.
By October 25th, Sony was touting Spiderman 2 as the fastest selling PlayStation Studios game ever, so I'm not sure how you can claim sales were slow.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
They had record high shipments in the quarter preceding when they made that forecast, and they expected widespread availability would mop up lots of sales for people who weren't able to get one during the shortages
Not sure it was widely seen as a 'dumb' forecast. Here's the GAF thread on the forecast. Not many doubters there
PS5 is fully stocked for first time and on track for record sales this year, top Sony exec says
Sony's PlayStation 5 is at full capacity at retailers and other distribution channels around the world, according to Eric Lempel, the company's head of business operations. That comes after a series of successive console shortages which saw many players around the world unable to get their hands...www.neogaf.com
To be fair, T Three called it back then
Just weird to think they could sell so many PS5s knowing that the price of the MSRP was higher at that time when compared to it's launch price.
Plus............had you told us that Sony was not going to drop the price of the PS5......more of us would have said they couldn't hit 25 million. I totally assumed Sony was signaling a $100 price drop when they put out that 25 million unit forecast. A price drop to $299 for the PS5 DE and $399 for the PS5 Slim would have gotten them to 25 million or so sold. But at $550 in Europe.......like come on man. What were they thinking?
nowhat
Member
It's always noon somewhere.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Sony was still sticking to the 25 million number in their previous quarterly financial reporting, which means they thought Spider-Man would carry the PS5.
The branding doesn't include the price of 499. The plan was always to bundle Spider-Man 2 with the PS5, whether or not they were going to bundle it for 500 is certainly questionable.
It was actually cheaper to get a PS5 Slim with Spider-Man than it was to get a PS5 Digital Slim and Spider-Man... that's a fairly broken bundle, which might suggest that was not always the plan.
You also have to separate Spider-Man 2 sales and Spider-Man 2 bundle sales. One is based on the weaker than expected sales of the PS5, which they very well knew going into November. You also have to realize that nearly every PS5 sold was probably that bundle, which does detract from Spider-Man 2 sales in the speed in which it sold over a larger period of time.
Also, my claim isn't that Spider-Man sales were slow (no one is actually interested in speed) but rather the sales were less than expected.
I'm not sure how anyone is arguing otherwise when we still see the PS5 Spider-Man bundle in stock AND Insomniac just had layoffs.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Spider-Man is already one of the fastest selling games of all time, Xbox players like it less because of the exclusivity.
Insomniac could've sold 20 million copies of Spider-Man 2 and Sony would still be cutting their staff. These cuts were already in play well before the quarterly financial results were known.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Sony said in the PREVIOUS quarterly fiscal report that they thought they would still sell 25 million.
If they planned on making the cuts then, they've largely paid for 900 people for 90 days for no reason and waited to cancel games until now.
That simply isn't the case.
I'm not saying Spider-Man would have held off these cuts, but the size and scope of the cuts were certainly impacted by the games profitability thus far.
If Sony sold 25 million PS5s and Spider-Man sold another 4-6 million copies, I doubt we'd be seeing layoffs at Insomniac and the overall size of the layoffs would probably be a fraction of what we saw here.
If not for Helldivers, I'm guessing these cuts would have been a bit more broad as well.
Ask yourself how they came up with 900 employees. Why not 800 or 1000?
Stooky
Member
lo no these layoffs were always coming for various reasons. Each studio has different reasons for layoffs. Sony was was not just relying on Spiderman 2 to push them to 25 mill Ps5 sold, that would be stupid. Helldrivers isn't saving anybody job, happy its doing well tho. That's not how Sony works.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Explain how Sony felt they could still get 25 million as of November, despite being so far off?
Stooky
Member
They thought having PS5 readily available they were going to sell, but people don't have cash like right now despite what the news is telling us. When they do Ps5 bundles the only do certain allotment, less than you think. They really want you to buy PS5 over the bundle. Big Picture, Sony Jim Ryan recently acquired a lot of studios, for the first time in for ever they have no major games for this year, is what they reported. New ceo coming in is going to want make some corrections. Each Sony studio is different the layoffs at those studios happened for different reasons.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Again, you're ignoring the rest of the year. They were off forecast for the whole year, they said in November with 4 months remaining in the fiscal year that they felt like they could still hit their target.
Stooky
Member
well they thought wrong. i think the current economy had a lot to do with that. Ps5 still did good numbers. 22.5 mill units in 2023. In oct 23 they still thought they could hit that 25 mill number.
Last edited:
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Mibu no ookami
Member
You've obviously been backed into a corner on this.
What made them think they could hit the number in October when they'd missed it so badly the whole year. Did they expect the economy to turn up or was there something else that they thought would drive it?
Mr.Phoenix
Member
All I know for certain is that it was stupid of Sony to think they would sell 25M consoles, and not have a single price drop in their 3rd year. If anything they increased the price. I predicted they would hit that 25M, seems they are falling short by 4M, but when I made that prediction, it was firmly because I thought that the PS5 slim was not only going to come at $399 with no disc drive but that it would be bundled with SM2.
A $399 PS5+SM2 would have surely moved those extra 4M units over that 5-month period. I would really like to know what made Sony think they could get away with raising the price of the PS5. Of not doing an actual price drop in its its 3rd year on the market. By the PS4s second holiday, we had the first official price drop to $350. By its third holiday, we had it down to $300.
The PS5 actually became more expensive.
Mibu no ookami
Member
All I will say is that I was correct that the PS5 was going to go up in price and that it wasn't going to hit 25 million.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I think you are exaggerating here. They didn't miss it badly all year. Hell, just going off how their Q1 and Q2 were, and the Q4 that preceded them in 2023, anyone could understand why they made that prediction.
And they are off by only 4M. Not 6 or 8M. An argument can be made that they could have hit that 25M shipment if they actually tried. You know, like have a $400 PS5 slim bundled with Spiderman and the other bundled with COD. That would have almost certainly guaranteed them an additional 4M in sales over that 6-month window (Q3+Q4). They didn't do that. If anything, what they did is something that anyone who hears that can say is the one thing you don't do when you are trying to sell something. The increased the price of the cheapest PS5 and didn't do a price drop for the most expensive one.
And kudus to you, no one is saying you were not correct. I said the exact opposite, but both statements are mutually exclusive, for one to happen, it means the other wouldn't. If they increase the price, they do not hit 25M. If they drop the price, they do.
Last edited: